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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: thehallofshields on August 04, 2013, 01:38:55 AM

Title: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: thehallofshields on August 04, 2013, 01:38:55 AM
Okay. Bizarre. I kept seeing smoke coming from my PNP Fuzz Face project. It turned out to be a 1k trimpot to ground (+9v) on the emitter of Q1. If it turn it to 1k. It lights up bright yellow and starts smoking! I'm using the standard 1-stop 9v powersupply that I always use and I've NEVER seen anything like this. Has anyone else?
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: Sacorus on August 04, 2013, 02:05:25 AM
I have burnt out a few in my time, mainly whilst on the breadboard!

Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: PRR on August 04, 2013, 02:20:14 AM
Resistor in the *emitter* of *Q1* in a *FuzzFace* design should NEVER get hot.

1K is more often in the emitter of *Q2*. Even so, if you have 5K-10K of resistance in Q2 collector, it should never get hot. Like 0.002 Watts in a 0.1W trimmer.

Something is wired way-wrong.

Other than that..... yes, roasting trim-pots is a fine fun past-time. There's some other circuits where it is inevitable. Sometimes 5-Watt trimmers, which with 9 watts flowing can set fire to the board.
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: GibsonGM on August 04, 2013, 08:52:30 AM
^  Yup.   Did you get the pot on the collector by accident?

Remember: voltage * current = Power (Watts).   So, if you had a 1K trimmer and a 9V source....when you crank it to say 500 ohms, you have 18mA.    9 * .018 = .162W, which is enough to fry that sucker!   The lower you turn it, the higher the current flow, and the more the pot must dissipate as heat (smoke).    Kind of stinks having to monkey with the numbers, but it helps for learning, in the long run!

The blue smoke....it's FUN!  ;o) 
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: duck_arse on August 04, 2013, 10:45:16 AM
the smell is to remind you not to do it again.
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: mistahead on August 04, 2013, 08:31:04 PM
Congratulations on a near life experience!

:icon_wink:

Dedicated a few minutes this weekend to showing my daughter catastrophic diode failure in action - scary but I could do firecracker shows off a cheap roll, and it would cost less than real crackers hahaha!
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: seedlings on August 04, 2013, 08:50:01 PM
I burn them up sometimes.  Burn up power supplies, resistors... it's easy!

Even using pots well under their rating, you can still burn one up.  Say you drop 4V across a 1k pot.  That's within spec (4*4)/1000= 0.016 watts.  But, once you turn the pot down below 160 ohms, you'll dissipate more than the 0.1 watt rating.

CHAD
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: PRR on August 04, 2013, 10:57:05 PM
> once you turn the pot down below 160 ohms, you'll dissipate more than the 0.1 watt rating.

Correct.

But all the places in a FuzzFace where a 1K pot makes sense *also* have 3K to 33K of additional resistance in series with the pot and the 9V. Hence max-dissipation far under 0.1W.

Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: armdnrdy on August 04, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
What has this site become! Now there's a thread about smokin' pot!  ::)
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: mistahead on August 04, 2013, 11:04:19 PM
It helps Jimi's eyes since he tried the diode fire cracker stupid component trick hahahaha.

Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: seedlings on August 05, 2013, 01:54:39 AM
Quote from: PRR on August 04, 2013, 10:57:05 PM
But all the places in a FuzzFace where a 1K pot makes sense *also* have 3K to 33K of additional resistance in series with the pot and the 9V. Hence max-dissipation far under 0.1W.

Aahh, yes.. but what seems to me like a small wiring error belches smoke and vile.

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6100/6300777648_e1e1774f83.jpg)

CHAD
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: mistahead on August 05, 2013, 01:57:55 AM
THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!!!!!
:icon_wink:
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: seedlings on August 05, 2013, 01:59:02 AM
Quote from: mistahead on August 05, 2013, 01:57:55 AM
THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!!!!!
:icon_wink:

I probably need to pick up some of those flameproof pots.

CHAD
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: deadastronaut on August 05, 2013, 06:37:47 AM
put tiny sausages on and have a miniature BBQ... 8)
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: bluebunny on August 05, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
Quote from: deadastronaut on August 05, 2013, 06:37:47 AM
put tiny sausages on and have a miniature BBQ... 8)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/sausage.jpeg)    ;D
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: deadastronaut on August 05, 2013, 08:27:39 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: seedlings on August 05, 2013, 10:10:51 AM
I've never been to China.  I've always imagined stepping off the plane into a strong smell of electronic components, like when you open the bag of transistors.  This would mean that a barbecue in China should smell like an electrical fire.
:icon_razz:

CHAD
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: gjcamann on August 05, 2013, 12:36:26 PM
On the topic of haphazerd entertainment. Ever microwave a grape?
Take a grape from a supermarket, cut it in half, and set the two halves, flat sides down and make sure they're touching a little. Then microwave for 10 seconds. You won't believe the show!
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: Kipper4 on August 05, 2013, 12:47:44 PM
This is giving me ideas for a pyro stompbox.
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on August 05, 2013, 12:57:26 PM
Dont ANY of you know that all of your basic electronics theory is WRONG?  ::)

ALL electronics works because of MAGIC SMOKE!!  :icon_cool:

Once you let out the magic smoke... the electronics don't work anymore!

PROVE ME WRONG!!  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: armdnrdy on August 05, 2013, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on August 05, 2013, 12:57:26 PM
ALL electronics works because of MAGIC SMOKE!!  :icon_cool:

Once you let out the magic smoke... the electronics don't work anymore!

+1
See reply #60
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=103542.60
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: thehallofshields on August 05, 2013, 04:29:19 PM
Hah. Didn't expect this to get so many replies. My gut reaction when I saw the smoke was "oh $&%#, I blew my amp!", so this was a bit of a relief.

I thought I had this positive-ground fuzz connected intelligently in series with a negative ground effect, but it looks like I've got more to learn. The trimpot only turns into a blazing yellow LED when the circuit shorts out, so there is more troubleshooting to do.

Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: seedlings on August 05, 2013, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: thehallofshields on August 05, 2013, 04:29:19 PM
Hah. Didn't expect this to get so many replies. My gut reaction when I saw the smoke was "oh $&%#, I blew my amp!", so this was a bit of a relief.

I thought I had this positive-ground fuzz connected intelligently in series with a negative ground effect, but it looks like I've got more to learn. The trimpot only turns into a blazing yellow LED when the circuit shorts out, so there is more troubleshooting to do.



I'm sure you came across this article, but it works very well for me.  Add a series resistor (I use a 10k trimmer) directly off the +9V jack to the + of a 1000uF cap (- of cap to ground), and then on to the modified fuzz circuit from the article.  Dial that resistance down just enough to tame.  This lowers the overall voltage to your fuzz, but the tone is good!

http://www.muzique.com/lab/fuzzface.htm

CHAD

*edit ... like this:

(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb54/seedlings/pnpfuzzneg_ground_mods_zps14f7418f.png) (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/seedlings/media/pnpfuzzneg_ground_mods_zps14f7418f.png.html)
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: tubegeek on August 06, 2013, 06:56:35 PM
In other news, is anyone else considering "Trimpot On Fire" for either a band name or at the very least a song lyric?
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: thehallofshields on August 07, 2013, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: seedlings on August 05, 2013, 04:53:01 PM
I'm sure you came across this article, but it works very well for me.  Add a series resistor (I use a 10k trimmer) directly off the +9V jack to the + of a 1000uF cap (- of cap to ground), and then on to the modified fuzz circuit from the article.  Dial that resistance down just enough to tame.  This lowers the overall voltage to your fuzz, but the tone is good!

Okay I'm going to try adding some resistance between the +9v and the circuit! I've got a 100uf cap between the power supply and ground already, will additional capacitance help here? (I'm never sure what these 9v-0v caps actually do here.)

Also, if I can't fit the 10k trimmer, is there a fixed value you could recommend?
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: mistahead on August 07, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: tubegeek on August 06, 2013, 06:56:35 PM
In other news, is anyone else considering "Trimpot On Fire" for either a band name or at the very least a song lyric?

Reggaecore band.

Do they have those?   :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: Jdansti on August 07, 2013, 10:56:36 PM
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/76BC518D-B3E1-4DA2-B95D-D5DD4DC6FB7F-11481-00000E0AB63F43CC.jpg)
Title: Re: Trimpot on Fire!
Post by: tubegeek on August 08, 2013, 04:04:15 PM
Nicely done!