Fair enough; and my apologies to tagboard

[LightSoundGeometry]

I must first say I am sorry for taking the jab at tagboard; you have to understand it was out of frustration on my part and a mere self reflection of my failures. I apologize to the website and understand its greatness. All they do over there does not go unnoticed by me and I am very grateful to those fine gentlemen over there. Once again, it was only anger on my part. I should of never said anything in the other thread, but I did and I apologize.

Here is part of the frustration, and maybe you guys can shed some light on it because I am not skilled enough in math or electronics to do a 24 piece point to point and must rely on the vero to get it to work when it comes to a schematic over 15 pieces or so. the two are unhooked now so I only took reading on the one but the same problems ..I left it socketed so I can switch out parts and went through each part I had on hand to no avail.

Q1 = 2.42, 2.4, .9
Q2 = 9.01, 3.1, 2.36

1 -5.0     8-9.04
2-4.95    7-8.43
3-4.85    6-8.42
4-00.1    5-00.3


first pic is to show I measure each piece and clean each lead of oxidation. I also clean vero strip with a small green scratch pad for oxidation. I also test conductivity on breaks after cutting tracks.




front side of builds



copper sides ..a little sloppy as I been reflowing, poking and proding on them non stop




vero layout



http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/02/orange-squeezer.html

10K trimmer does nothing
I used at least 4-5 different types of didoes , i think these particular pics show a 1n34a and a 1n914 I am pretty sure.
I used j201's and 2n5457's
I tried general purpose 4558d, jrc4558d and a rc4558P

[GGBB]

First thing to rule out with the OS - the trimmer adjustment is rather sensitive and only does anything over a small range. You need to find the sweet spot where the sound goes from clean to compressed to distorted. I think that outside that range you may get just clean or nothing at all. Having a multi-turn trimmer is quite useful once you've dialed in the sweet spot, but it makes finding that range a bit tedious.

[LightSoundGeometry]

First thing to rule out with the OS - the trimmer adjustment is rather sensitive and only does anything over a small range. You need to find the sweet spot where the sound goes from clean to compressed to distorted. I think that outside that range you may get just clean or nothing at all. Having a multi-turn trimmer is quite useful once you've dialed in the sweet spot, but it makes finding that range a bit tedious.

I tried to mount it externally as well. when the effect works, it works, and works well. the trimmer goes from clean/dirty/off

the one that is hooked up in the photo turns on with no boost and is lower than unity gain. I cant tell if it adding compression or not but sounds like just a boost.. one of the other ones is absolute insane boost, only clean and no comp with trimmer at all; and only when the two fets are pulled out of socket. put the fets back in and get nothing at all, no sound. the other unconnected one does nothing at all complete silence.

I made one of these before and it was a 390 ohm instead of a 390k was the culprit. So I know it can work. I dont believe my solder skill are that bad. I believe they are efficient enough but obviously not. maybe I am misreading a part again..wish I could afford the 75 bucks and get a peak atlas..I am working with literally no tools as I cant find a job for the life of me even in a restaurant, living hand to mouth whilst looking for a job so new tools are out of the question for me..I am measuring with a 15 dollar chinese gadget from ebay , the one that was designed in germany but sold by chinese companies

[mth5044]

You're voltages look good, as long as I'm guessing the transistors right and they are labeled as gate, source, drain. The termination of the unused opamp isn't right, but that might just be how the Orange squeezer does it, not a mistake by you!

Having a working unit will help for comparison. Are the voltages you posted for the working or not working one?

Are you using 2N5457's or a substitute?

As was said, those multiturn pots can be turned a whole lot before they start making a difference. Can you measure the resistance of your working on and set the others to a similar ohm?

A good next step is audio-probing to see where you are losing signal. May turn out to be a simple wiring problem. A simple audio probe can be built with a cap and a 1/4" jack, check out the wiki for an example.

[LightSoundGeometry]

You're voltages look good, as long as I'm guessing the transistors right and they are labeled as gate, source, drain. The termination of the unused opamp isn't right, but that might just be how the Orange squeezer does it, not a mistake by you!

Having a working unit will help for comparison. Are the voltages you posted for the working or not working one?

Are you using 2N5457's or a substitute?

As was said, those multiturn pots can be turned a whole lot before they start making a difference. Can you measure the resistance of your working on and set the others to a similar ohm?

A good next step is audio-probing to see where you are losing signal. May turn out to be a simple wiring problem. A simple audio probe can be built with a cap and a 1/4" jack, check out the wiki for an example.

I swear no lie, just went to plug in and give it some more tests again and move trimmer around..works like a beast ..so went from nothing at all last night for 2 hours fooling around, then today plugs in and fired right up without doing a dang thing...I wouldnt believe it if i didnt see it with my own two eyes

just placed a small bear order - got me about 10 transistors or so ..I have not given up on the fuzz lol..I am going to make me one of those meatheads from tagboard.

[PRR]

> nothing at all last night ... ... today plugs in and fired right up without doing a dang thing...
> I wouldnt believe it if i didnt see it with my own two eyes

Don't believe it.

Such oddity is common around bad joints. They maybe don't work, and then maybe they work, but you can bet your best shirt they will don't-work again at some Important Gig. (They know.)

You are still in the don't-work when just-built phase. The real hair-ripping comes when you are making 99.9% good joints, and they work good enough to go-out or to sell, THEN fail.

(Two stories. Bogen made some massive tube amps 99.9% good joints. One worked hard for several years and then caught fire. I found a joint which was never right, just lucky, for a while. Samsung made monitors for IBM. This one worked for a year (past warranty!) and then cut-out. A smack might bring it back for a while. I was a hero when I finally found a flux-sleeve joint and re-did it right; worked solid until obsolete.)

> copper sides ..a little sloppy as I been reflowing, poking and proding on them non stop

No. Learn to solder good the *first* try.

A good solder joint is *inspectable*. Use the *minimum* amount of solder so you can "see" the lead and the pad through the least amount of solder.

The solder must "wet" the metal. Feather edge due to surface tension. Not blob-up. You "can" have a wetted joint under a blob, but you can't be *sure* it is wetted. Blobs bad.

I can't guess how many of those blobs are bad. Except I see on cap-leg which *appears* to have a "sleeve" of flux between lead and blob. This won't conduct for crap.

My suspicion is that you are not getting *both* lead and pad hot. In most cases the soldering iron should touch *both*. This may be your tip, or iron, but technique is sure important. Watching the flux sizzle and then the solder *wet* *both* halves of the joint is part of improving technique.

A "scales exercise": take bare board and some resistor lead scraps. Solder a few dozen scraps to the board. Now use your ohm-meter to "prove" the joints. This is dubious because meter-probe can distort a don't-work joint into working (as long as probe-stress is on it). Better would be to find (make) some few-pad-per-node board, solder jumpers from one node to another, and then test between copper nodes (testing two solder-joints at once) without stressing the actual joints.

Resistor leads are typically thin. Fat leads require more heat in the lead. You may have caps with fat legs. You have your off-board wires. Some projects run to on-board pots/switches with honkin big leads. Practice the whole range of wire sizes. (I recently soldered some #10 tractor wire and it was "different" even for an experienced electronics solderman like me.) (For extra stupidity I did it with a 250W iron on the hottest day of July, just about heat-castrated myself.)

[LakeFX]

I can't guess how many of those blobs are bad. Except I see on cap-leg which *appears* to have a "sleeve" of flux between lead and blob. This won't conduct for crap.

Can you point out which joint to help some of us less experienced builders to learn how to identify bad joints?

[duck_arse]

ahh, well, another 1/2 latched dual opamp. never mind. and can we have transistor pin names (e, b, c or g, s, d) along with the voltage so we don't have to guess, pretty please?

on the board in the pics with the soldered in transistors, there is a 470k resistor bottom centre that is out-by-one, next the electro.

stretched-wire caps like on that layout/build are a potential problem, if either part manages to shift enough to short to the part next to.

[LightSoundGeometry]

> nothing at all last night ... ... today plugs in and fired right up without doing a dang thing...
> I wouldnt believe it if i didnt see it with my own two eyes

Don't believe it.

Such oddity is common around bad joints. They maybe don't work, and then maybe they work, but you can bet your best shirt they will don't-work again at some Important Gig. (They know.)

You are still in the don't-work when just-built phase. The real hair-ripping comes when you are making 99.9% good joints, and they work good enough to go-out or to sell, THEN fail.

(Two stories. Bogen made some massive tube amps 99.9% good joints. One worked hard for several years and then caught fire. I found a joint which was never right, just lucky, for a while. Samsung made monitors for IBM. This one worked for a year (past warranty!) and then cut-out. A smack might bring it back for a while. I was a hero when I finally found a flux-sleeve joint and re-did it right; worked solid until obsolete.)

> copper sides ..a little sloppy as I been reflowing, poking and proding on them non stop

No. Learn to solder good the *first* try.

A good solder joint is *inspectable*. Use the *minimum* amount of solder so you can "see" the lead and the pad through the least amount of solder.

The solder must "wet" the metal. Feather edge due to surface tension. Not blob-up. You "can" have a wetted joint under a blob, but you can't be *sure* it is wetted. Blobs bad.

I can't guess how many of those blobs are bad. Except I see on cap-leg which *appears* to have a "sleeve" of flux between lead and blob. This won't conduct for crap.

My suspicion is that you are not getting *both* lead and pad hot. In most cases the soldering iron should touch *both*. This may be your tip, or iron, but technique is sure important. Watching the flux sizzle and then the solder *wet* *both* halves of the joint is part of improving technique.

A "scales exercise": take bare board and some resistor lead scraps. Solder a few dozen scraps to the board. Now use your ohm-meter to "prove" the joints. This is dubious because meter-probe can distort a don't-work joint into working (as long as probe-stress is on it). Better would be to find (make) some few-pad-per-node board, solder jumpers from one node to another, and then test between copper nodes (testing two solder-joints at once) without stressing the actual joints.

Resistor leads are typically thin. Fat leads require more heat in the lead. You may have caps with fat legs. You have your off-board wires. Some projects run to on-board pots/switches with honkin big leads. Practice the whole range of wire sizes. (I recently soldered some #10 tractor wire and it was "different" even for an experienced electronics solderman like me.) (For extra stupidity I did it with a 250W iron on the hottest day of July, just about heat-castrated myself.)

Paul, I am absorbing all you have told me. I ordered an st5 flat tip and a st7 conical for more precise application. I had a feeling it was my soldering.


Hey duck arse I have the IC numbered 1-8 as it would be shown facing you. a 470K one hole off lol how do I not see it!!!!

got the fuzz breadboarded and it sounds amazing. I used 2n2222 to set it up, and then switched to a bc108/beta 78 in q1 and a old nos germanium beta around 50 in q2. I am learning about the loop coming out of the collector and back to the base of the other tranny. I see this sort of thing in the IC ships , I am guessing this is the feedback loop people talk about?  The hardest part stretching from the far end capacitor back across the board to the q1 collector .

I wired on up on perf, p2p, with the 2n2222 as practice. works just fine beside the crappy trannies which will be replaced by good ones 50-100 beta and most likely bc108's or some small bear GE .

I am really getting into this, literally cant sleep..dreaming about putting parts in line on a board ..I wake up in the middle of the nigth thinkign of ways to make connections lol

love it!!! its like doing crossword puzzles or something. today i am going to attempt the schematic on vero by doing cozys method of drawing out like he showed me for the EP preamp. Also, this will give me some practice like PRR mentioned as i can concentrate on proper wetting action and application of solder.

[R.G.]

... because I am not skilled enough in math or electronics to do...

One of my favorite movie lines is in "The Thirteenth Warrior". The Arab protagonist is off on a mysterious and dangerous mission with Vikings. He is a self-descibed poet and gentleman, not a warrior.

When they start expecting fighting, the Viking most friendly to the Arab tells one of the others to get him a sword. He's tossed a two-handed broadsword that is obviously too big and heavy for him. He yells "What am I supposed to do with this? It's too heavy for me to swing it!"

The friendly Viking laughs and says as he turns and walks away "Then grow stronger."

There's no need to become a math whiz or an electronic tech, but you'll enjoy this a lot more as you learn more. Seriously - the hardest steps are the first ones.

And in fact, judging by your posts, you're already growing stronger! Keep at it!

[LightSoundGeometry]

first vero layout didnt work! 

I will give it another go !  determined , I am :

[dschwartz]

As RG say..the first steps are the hardest ones..
Until today, after hundreds of builds, i assume they wont fire up on first try, and ussually, they don't..but after years of riping my hair off , i figured out my debug process..patience, a multimeter, a probe and more patience..follow the signal path with the probe and you will find the issue..

[hymenoptera]

A real longshot here, but I should mention that on those JFETs, you should be aware there are some fake 2n5457s going around with the gate in the middle instead of the end. If you bought them from an overseas vendor it's possible you got some bad ones...