Let's find a good Booster for the Triple Wreck

[Elijah-Baley]

Hello guys!
I'm working on a Wampler Triple Wreck, the layout is this: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.it/2012/10/wampler-triple-wreck.html
I'm not building a pedal, but I'm gonna use the circuit as preamp in a TDA2003, also it work in progress.
Meanwhile, I tested at 9v the main circuit (without boost) on my solid state amp, and it works very well and sound really good.
I have to insert with the Triple Wreck even its boost, I didn't build it and probably I'll do it. But I know that the original boost of the Triple Wreck it is not exactly a gain boost, but a sort of contour tone control and it gives to the sound a deep and fuzzy tone. No bad, but even not exactly the idea I have of a boost. Indeed, somebody prefers it without the boost.

So, this is the question:
Which is the best booster for the Wampler Triple Wreck?

Before to answer I still have to say something. The circuit - as the rest of the circuit of my TDA2003 - will be power at 12v, and the boost have to work fine in front and in the end of the Wampler Triple Wreck.

Manin Schematic:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NUlKC9gloDQ/TxL3rucGxdI/AAAAAAAAAjY/CWne3xV_0-k/s1600/wampler_triple_wreck.gif

Original Boost Schematic:


Let's find a good Booster for the Triple Wreck.

Bye.

[antonis]

Why a "good" booster and not a "better" (or maybe a "best") one.. 

WTW is a "monster" byself but you can easily make last stage gain selectable via a switch and/or delete Cream components of it's own boost..

[Elijah-Baley]

Thank you, antonis.
Well, ok, a better booster!
But you know, I meant a more suitable boost for two reason: a) a better performance; b) no problem (or easily adjustable) at 12v. Oh, and another thing: it must NOT TO BE an attenuator in any case.
The original booster, I read, work better with a MPSA18, but maybe I have to set the bias, or something, beacuse the 12v.

It is interesting your idea to split the Triple Wreck in "two channels". Indeed, I was thinking about this, but I didn't know the gain stages of this circuit. I hope someone can help me. It will be a great idea for the next project, but I didn't do this operation now because it unsettles the amp project, it already has a lot of features and options.

I would like to know how I can get swiitchable the last gain stage, but I still want to find a better booster.

[peterc]

Here is another idea to mull over

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=19580.msg190040#msg190040

[samhay]

I don't understand.
Is the Triple Wreck not loud enough, or your don't like the tone?
If you don't like the tone, I don't see how a booster will help much, even if you put it before the Triple Wreck.
If you do like the tone, but it isn't loud enough, I'm sure a simple mod will fix this.
The Triple Wreck uses op-amps, so there is no problem running it at 12 V.

[antonis]

Better to have a view of what we're talking about... 



Gain stages are IC1B & IC1C followed by IC1D clipping stage..
IC2A & IC2B are "recovery" stages for the respective tone filters..

Although common sense implies gain setting on IC1 B/C you can try it on diode clipping stage of IC1D...
(a more interesting alternative should be altering the gain of Mids on IC2B but it depends on your final tone taste - R23/C25 are there for final brightness..)

IMHO, booster bias alter for 12V shouldn't be a problem but I don't like high gain BJTs on boosters so I gladly make room for Sir Mike to propose a FET one... 

[Elijah-Baley]

Thank you, antonis, for the analysis of the circuit!

Here is another idea to mull over

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=19580.msg190040#msg190040

In that link the suggestion is to replace the original boost with a LPB-1. Unfortunately the topic remained unanswered. Anyway, the LPB-1 could be not my ideal, I guess it works even like an attenuator.

I don't understand.
Is the Triple Wreck not loud enough, or your don't like the tone?
If you don't like the tone, I don't see how a booster will help much, even if you put it before the Triple Wreck.
If you do like the tone, but it isn't loud enough, I'm sure a simple mod will fix this.
The Triple Wreck uses op-amps, so there is no problem running it at 12 V.

Thanks samhay, I take the opportunity to give some more information that could help me to explain.
I found with the Triple Wreck a right distortion preamp for a little solid state amp. The other channel is a clean preamp. Then, I know it can seems excessive but, I wanted a boost only on the distortion channel, pre and post the distortion. All the amp will work at 12v. I know the Triple Wreck is ok with that, but maybe no the transistor's boost.
I love the tone of the Triple Wreck, at the moment without any boost, and seem to me I don't have any volume issue with it. So absolutely no problem with the main circuit.

Because I see someone doesn't love the stock boost effect on the Triple Wreck I hoped to find a better boost replacement. And the conditions are:
a) Better performance before and after the Triple Wreck
b) Ok at 12v (at the edge with a small adjustments)
c) It doesn't get the volume lower
d) Low noise is better

[antonis]

I think we didn't refer to the most basic question..

Dou you want a permanent boost or an On-Off one..??

[Elijah-Baley]

On/Off Boost. Yes, it has to be switchable, and it will work before or after the distortion. But it isn't important now. Wiring is not a problem because it is a business of the wiring of the amp.
I just want to find an alternative to the original boost.

[antonis]

<True story ON>

I've build a WTW (as part of a multipedal box) working perfectly for more than 1 year..

I recently had to troubleshoot another circuit inside box and found that I've mixed up 2N5088 of booster with 2N3904 of DPDT millenium bypass booster's switch..

I interchanged them, tested it for a while and kept the (wrongly placed) 2N3904 in it's wrong place..

(True story OFF>

[J0K3RX]

The TW has way more than enough gain so, I don't really know what a boost before or after is gonna do to improve it..? If anything at all it could use a little clarity and tightening up on the low end. When it starts to reach max gain it gets a bit flubby/loose on the low end especially with extended range guitars. Hate to say it but, the good old tube screamer in front wins again! If you want a boost after the pedal then just add a second foot switchable volume pot.. done

[Elijah-Baley]

Thank you, J0K3RX!
I would like improve a bit, if it possibile, only the boost section.
The second volume is a very clean solution to have a volume boost for soloing, but I have to say I don't like it too much. Considering my project I prefer to have just one boost circuit switchable before or after the Triple Wreck. But thanks for the idea, I'll remember it for the pedal version.

I have a Tube Screamer clone, with bass boost and stock/LED clipping. I can try it soon. Of course I know the magic boosting power of the TS, but I had prejudice because it is an overdrive.
Just in case, I have an idea about the TS. Maybe I can build one with just boost setting. Minimun gain only (stock or completely clean), LEDs or no diodes for more volume, tone control with a trimmer or bypassed, what else?

Meanwhile, I have a Micro Amp, too. I have to try it, before and after the Triple Wreck.
In second position I'm thinking about the EP Booster, I never built.

[J0K3RX]

Just in case, I have an idea about the TS. Maybe I can build one with just boost setting. Minimun gain only (stock or completely clean), LEDs or no diodes for more volume, tone control with a trimmer or bypassed, what else?

Meanwhile, I have a Micro Amp, too. I have to try it, before and after the Triple Wreck.
In second position I'm thinking about the EP Booster, I never built.

Actually you don't need any clipping diodes in the TS they don't make a whole lot of difference using a TS the way I am talking about.. Keep the gain almost all the way down and turn the level up 3/4 of the way or more.. Tone at the 12:00 o'clock position or more. The Micro amp is another good one!

[Elijah-Baley]

In pole position, in my head, I have the MicroAmp.

About the TS, without adulterate the clone I made I can set it on LED clipping, try the tone settings (I found my clone a bit muddy, anyway) and I can try it with the Triple Wreck. The Volume pot should to be in the amp the Boost pot, and I just realized that it works, of course, as even an attenuator.
Maybe I can use a trick like this.

Look at R1, I guess it sets the minimum volume, it's been suggested since a while but I still don't tried it.

[antonis]

Guess right..!!

It also alters Volume pot setting responce (it offsets by a constant amount voltage divider's Output..) so don't overcome it's value..
(a maximum of 10% of pot's value should be more than adequate..)

[Elijah-Baley]

Guess right..!!

[...]
(a maximum of 10% of pot's value should be more than adequate..)

Got it. Thanks.

[Elijah-Baley]

I made some test with the boosters.
I have three pure booster DIY pedals: MXR Micro Amp, Fetzer Valve, Brian May Treble Booster. I still have to complete the original Triple Wreck's booster, I need a couple of resistors.

I started with the MXR Micro Amp. And stop. I think it couldn't work better. I couldn't compare it with the original, I just saw some videos about the original Wampler, but the Micro Amp work perfectly. In front of the Triple Wreck it encreases the gain and the sustain and the hum is ok. After the Triple Wreck the Micro Amp has a ton of volume (too much? ).

Maybe I'll try the other pedals, but actually I am already ok.

[bool]

The simplistic Dr.Watsonian deductive logic would dictate to "microampify" the first (buffer) opamp of your TW clone to preserve the new tonal character permanently.

IOW; to mod the TW input cap and the bias resistor to the microamp spec/values.

(was it a 10n and a 10meg combo? or something similar ...)

[Elijah-Baley]

Hi, bool.
I'm not sure to get what you mean, my bad, sorry.
This is the Micro Amp's schematic if you need.
http://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/microamp/mxr-microamp-schematic.png

I want to say we know that the original booster of the Triple Wreck, (in front), changes the tone of the pedal, and the Cream pot controls the "colour" of the tone.
I like the Micro Amp because it doesn't change the tone of the Triple Wreck.
I wouldn't modify the original circuit of the Triple Wreck because we have keep in mind I have to use the Micro Amp even after the circuit.
(Let me remember: my project will include a switch to set the Micro Amp pre or post the main circuit of the Triple Wreck).

[GibsonGM]

Why a "good" booster and not a "better" (or maybe a "best") one.. 

WTW is a "monster" byself but you can easily make last stage gain selectable via a switch and/or delete Cream components of it's own boost..

Has anyone tried a Mosfet Boost yet??