BBD Chips

[dosmun]

http://www.visualsound.net/bbd.htm

[Peter Snowberg]

I'm 99.99999999% sure they're actually from here: http://www.belling.com.cn/products/prod_pdf/bl3207-e.pdf

A little paint and you too can sell BBDs as though you are an IC manufacturer.

[brad]

how would they paint them?  That's a pretty neat trick.

[cd]

how would they paint them?  That's a pretty neat trick.

Buy enough of them and the manufacturer will put whatever you want on them, even JRC4558D (guess how many they'd sell then!!)

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

i thought it was kind of funny that a pedal producer would also stamp out their BBDs...  :lol:

[Dan N]

These were in a cheap kids toy:



Must be a cheap alternative to digital for some purposes.

[Peter Snowberg]

Very cute.... notice that the LS3207 that Dan just posted has the same edge detail as the VisualSound chips. AFAIK, Shanghai Belling is the only company making them at this point. Those LS3207s above were made in Late 1999 and I assume they're BL3207s with house markings.

Also worth note... 3208s!

http://www.belling.com.cn/products/prod_pdf/bl3208-e.pdf

[Mark Hammer]

What toy was that?

[nelson]

What can MN3207's replace?

[cd]

What can MN3207's replace?

MN3107s.  1024 buckets, good for flangers and choruses.

[Mark Hammer]

What can MN3207's replace?

MN3107s.  1024 buckets, good for flangers and choruses.

Probably just a typo, but to clarify, there ARE no MN3107's.  There are 3 series of BBDs made by Matsushita: the MN30xx, MN32xx, and MN33xx.  I've actually never laid eyes on anything with an MN33 prefix myself, but there have never been any BBDs made with an MN31xx number.  The MN31-- prefix is ONLY for the clock drivers.

My point is certainly not to slag CD.  Rather, you'd be surprised by how many chips are made that have part numbers very similar to Matsushita/Panasonic BBDs but aren't BBDs.  In some cases, I've seen them pop up on inventory listings that are organized on a pure alphanumeric part-number basis, without regard to manufacturer or function.  If possible, I'd like to spare people the grief of buying the wrong thing just because a number sort of sounded familiar to them and the chip was about the right size.

DON'T BUY MN3107'S!

As for what an LS3207 (as shown) can replace, it is a pin for pin replacement for a BL3207 and MN3207.  It is a *functional* replacement for an MN3007 (with appropriate circuit changes), and a pin-for-pin replacement for an MN3307, although the 3307 will function at circuit supply voltages that might be too low for an MN3207.

The LS/MN/BL3207 is pin for pin compatible (not the same as a replacement) with a few other chips in the MN32xx series.  So, for instance, you can stick in an LS3207 (1024 stages) where an MN3209 (256 stages) would go (and vice versa) without anything blowing up.  Of course, since the chips in that series vary in terms of number of stages, replacement with another numbered chip would produce a different time delay.  Use 256 stages to do the job formerly assigned to 1024 stages and you end up with a much briefer delay range.  Conversely, replacement of an xx09 with an xx07 multiplies the delay time x4.  The circuit can be adapted to compensate, but you still have to DO it; simply swapping chips won't be enough.  Both the clock and filter circuits will have to be adapted to get the one chip to make the circuit SOUND the same as with the other.

Incidentally, as higher-capacity BBDs become rarer, keep in mind that, although cumbersome, it is possible to achieve longer analog delay times by placing several BBDs in series and ganging them to the same clock.  Indeed, the first Memory Man issues and MXR Analog Delay pedals worked in exactly that manner.  Just note that by the time you've bought and wired up a quartet of MN3207 in series, your purchase price has likely equalled many times the price of something like a Princeton digital chip which can achieve double the delay time, at the same quality, for a fraction of the price.  Scott Swartz's PT-80 and AD-3208 delay projects found at generalguitargadgets provide excellent examples of how to use a digital chip and how to cascade several analog delay chips, respectively

On the other hand, I can't count the number of folks who have posted queries over the years regarding squeezing just a little more delay time out of something they already own.  This note is here to say that you CAN tack an MN3007 on to the back end of a single-MN3005-based delay line and get more delay time out of it, as long as you're willing to make the little daughter board and demonstrate the required care and planning.

[Dan N]

What toy was that?

Sing 'N Jam, a colorful plastic speaker thing with a mic that has a voice changer and sound effects inside. Radio Shack Cat No. 60-1225

Actually, it was cheap from Goodwill. No idea what it retailed for.

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks.  You never what you'll find in the bargain bin.  Always nice to know what's inside some of those things that look nondescript and uninteresting.

Ever checked out any of the "Hacking Furby" sites?

[nelson]

What can MN3207's replace?

MN3107s.  1024 buckets, good for flangers and choruses.

Probably just a typo, but to clarify, there ARE no MN3107's.  There are 3 series of BBDs made by Matsushita: the MN30xx, MN32xx, and MN33xx.  I've actually never laid eyes on anything with an MN33 prefix myself, but there have never been any BBDs made with an MN31xx number.  The MN31-- prefix is ONLY for the clock drivers.

My point is certainly not to slag CD.  Rather, you'd be surprised by how many chips are made that have part numbers very similar to Matsushita/Panasonic BBDs but aren't BBDs.  In some cases, I've seen them pop up on inventory listings that are organized on a pure alphanumeric part-number basis, without regard to manufacturer or function.  If possible, I'd like to spare people the grief of buying the wrong thing just because a number sort of sounded familiar to them and the chip was about the right size.

DON'T BUY MN3107'S!

As for what an LS3207 (as shown) can replace, it is a pin for pin replacement for a BL3207 and MN3207.  It is a *functional* replacement for an MN3007 (with appropriate circuit changes), and a pin-for-pin replacement for an MN3307, although the 3307 will function at circuit supply voltages that might be too low for an MN3207.

The LS/MN/BL3207 is pin for pin compatible (not the same as a replacement) with a few other chips in the MN32xx series.  So, for instance, you can stick in an LS3207 (1024 stages) where an MN3209 (256 stages) would go (and vice versa) without anything blowing up.  Of course, since the chips in that series vary in terms of number of stages, replacement with another numbered chip would produce a different time delay.  Use 256 stages to do the job formerly assigned to 1024 stages and you end up with a much briefer delay range.  Conversely, replacement of an xx09 with an xx07 multiplies the delay time x4.  The circuit can be adapted to compensate, but you still have to DO it; simply swapping chips won't be enough.  Both the clock and filter circuits will have to be adapted to get the one chip to make the circuit SOUND the same as with the other.

Incidentally, as higher-capacity BBDs become rarer, keep in mind that, although cumbersome, it is possible to achieve longer analog delay times by placing several BBDs in series and ganging them to the same clock.  Indeed, the first Memory Man issues and MXR Analog Delay pedals worked in exactly that manner.  Just note that by the time you've bought and wired up a quartet of MN3207 in series, your purchase price has likely equalled many times the price of something like a Princeton digital chip which can achieve double the delay time, at the same quality, for a fraction of the price.  Scott Swartz's PT-80 and AD-3208 delay projects found at generalguitargadgets provide excellent examples of how to use a digital chip and how to cascade several analog delay chips, respectively

On the other hand, I can't count the number of folks who have posted queries over the years regarding squeezing just a little more delay time out of something they already own.  This note is here to say that you CAN tack an MN3007 on to the back end of a single-MN3005-based delay line and get more delay time out of it, as long as you're willing to make the little daughter board and demonstrate the required care and planning.

I had a look at the bbdementia on hammers site http://hammer.ampage.org it contains the datasheets for the chips we are discussing, it is on page 6 ( i think ). The only difference between an MN3207 and MN3007, used in small clone/clone theory, is the supply voltage. The MN3207's are cheaper and it may be worthwhile making mods to the above circuits to accomodate them.

Currently I am working on a PCB layout for the clone theory. Will post it up when I have finished. It is my first time designing a PCB myself.

[aremesnik]

I actually ordered some mn3207's from visual sound and when they got here there was a piece of paper in the package warning you not to use IC sockets with the chips. That these chips are designed to be soldered directly to the board  :? . I can't think of any reason they wouldn't work and they are not SMD, so this weekend they are going into a Zombie Chorus and Ultra Flanger.

[puretube]

...and topic reply notifications for free...
:lol:

[cd]

What can MN3207's replace?

MN3107s.  1024 buckets, good for flangers and choruses.

Probably just a typo, but to clarify, there ARE no MN3107's.  There are 3 series of BBDs made by Matsushita: the MN30xx, MN32xx, and MN33xx.  I've actually never laid eyes on anything with an MN33 prefix myself, but there have never been any BBDs made with an MN31xx number.  The MN31-- prefix is ONLY for the clock drivers.

OOOPS!!!  Got me there, Mark.  I was thinking of MN3007s, and the clock driver needed to drive them (MN3101) and mentally combined them together  

So to amplify and clarify, DO NOT USE OR BUY MN3107s!!!

[DiyFreaque]

I actually ordered some mn3207's from visual sound and when they got here there was a piece of paper in the package warning you not to us IC sockets with the chips. that i chip are designed to be soldered directly to the board?

Don't know about that - I used them in sockets on the Dim C's and they cruised right along there and on the breadboard as well, no problems at all.  

Electrically, I can't see any difference they would have from the original MN part that would require this any more than an MN part.

Anyway, my latest order is from Small Bear (it's on its way, Thanks Steve!!), and the ordered 3207's are of the BL variety - I ought to see how they look...um.. visually with the Visual sound BBD's.  This will be the fourth 'prefix' of 3207 I've used - MN, CN, BL and Visual sound.  I just noticed that 3207 in another thread of yet another manufacturer.  The 3207 must be the most widely distributed/mass produced of all the BBD chips.

Cheers,
Scott
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