Electro Mechanical Effects Delays,Reverbs,Phasors

[walters]

Hi this is Walters

1.) I know the Trick its all about the Transducer

2.) its to convert Electrical motion into Mechanical motion

3.) for Reverbs use a transducer to turn guitar electrical motion into mechanical motion and use a Spring for electro mechanical and then
another Transducer to change mechanical motion into Electrical motion
          a.) a Driver Transducer
          b.) a spring
          c.) a Reciever Transducer

3.) Does anyone know how to make a Electro Mechanical Phasor?

4.) Electro Mechanical Flanger?, or Electro Mechanical Chorus?

5.) i think there is a Tremolo one that is Electro Mechanical
     how does that work?
6.) and a Vibrato one that is Electo mechanical that someone made
     how do they work?
7.) Electro Mechanical effects like Delays?

8.) LIke the Fender Dimension IV that use a Can Delay?

[puretube]

do a patent-office search, and look for the names: Leslie, Burkhard,
Schrecongost, Young, Hanert, Hammond, Greenberg, Seeley, Bonham...

[walters]

Thanks Puretube for your time and info

[puretube]

If you were in town, you could visit me so I could show you a lot of pix and files and books, where it`s all explained and drawn out.
But I`m not able to offer easy-clickable links to such sources.
Also I don`t have the time to re-write down what I have gathered from reading all that stuff - I`m rather slowish...

[walters]

1.) thats some good stuff u have there

[Toney]

Hi Walt,

1) I have this textbook open and I'm firing random association questions from it in relation to guitar effects.....

2) Oh hang on thats not me...... its you....

3)What specifically is your current goal ?

4)Do you have an actual design in mind ?

[Mark Hammer]

Actually, that's kind of a humorous question you ask, since phase shifters, univibes, choruses, and flangers were all initially developed IN ORDER to mimic a mechanically-produced effect - namely the Leslie rotating speaker, itself a device to reproduce the doppler effect created by rapidly moving sound sources.  All these devices produce the effect of different sorts of comb filtering (distributed notches).  Of course, once you work with a REAL Leslie, you end up having to appreciate the electronic versions for what they are - Leslies almost always sound better.  Of course, Leslies always weigh about 50 times as much, too, and you sure can't fit them in the passenger seat of a Smart Car..

As for things that use sealed rotating oil cans, they are a mystery to me.  Others here have more experience with them.  From what I understand, they can sound quite good.

[object88]

Was it the flange effect that was originally produced by putting pressure (with the tape-op's hand) on a reel-to-reel, to slow it down?  I think it had to be done with two decks, and the tape-op would slow down one, the the other as the first one sped back up again.  Cool stuff.

As for a vibrato, I suppose you could come up with a mechanical device which rapidly opened and closed a door on a box which encapsulated a speaker.  Vibrato is the amplitude modulation effect, right?  I get it confused with tremelo.

[Mark Hammer]

Well, of course we have had vibrato ever since the first Bigsby arm.  As for tremolo, what child *doesn't* get a kick out of talking into a rotating fan and hearing their voice distorted by the rapid amplitude changes?

And just to confirm, yes classic tape flanging involved two syncronized tape decks containing the same track.  Initially the slowing down required one to apply thumb pressure to the tape reel to counteractthe pull of the motor and produce a slower speed.  Later, as tape transport systems became more sophisticated, motor speed could be controlled by an electronic control that would adjust the speed of what I assume was an AC motor.  Most recording techs from that era talk about "VCO'ing" the tape transport, which I gather to mean altering the AC rate from, say, <60hz to >60hz, or something like that by means of an oscillator whose AC rate could be changed.  If someone has better info (or a link to it, I'd be curious).

Is tape flanging "better" than completely electronic flanging?  That's hard to say.  You see, most of the "classic" instances of tape flanging that became the audio benchmark, like "The Big Hurt", "Itchy-Coo Park", "Sky Pilot", "Axis Bold as Love", etc., used tape flanging as a post-production effect.  It was superimposed on pre-mixed-tracks that already contained more than one signal source.  Because of this, the pre-mixed tracks had more bandwidth taken up.  So whatever notches the tape flanging were going to produce were more audible because there was signal covering the entire range where those notches might occur.  If a grimacing guitarist bends a single note at the 15th fret of their high E and runs THAT through a flanger, there will be a whole lot of potential notches that simply aren't heard because there is no frequency content in that range.

There is likely whatever effect the saturation of tape yields, plus the advantages of electronically synced tape decks when it comes to producing through-zero flanging, but as for intensity of effect, many confuse what tape flanging was generally used on with what it is capable of.  My guess is that single instruments run through tape flanging would not sound nearly as impressive.

[davebungo]

I used to have a Watkins Copycat (wish I still did - it was crap but would have been worth a mint).  The trick with that was to stick my foot on the spindle as I played and by varying the pressure (almost to a stop), I could obtain some really outlandish effects.  I was lucky not to burn out the motor, though the tapes wore out pretty quickly in any case so it was a bit of an expensive tool to run.

You can achieve some really nice and subtle effects on acoustic guitar by waving your hand over the sound hole (like strumming but without actually hitting the strings).

[walters]

thanks for the information Mark Hammer and others

1.) Im really looking for to build a flanger or phaser
    that uses a Transducer so its in real time

2.) a Phaser that has a Driver Transducer and a Recovery Transducer
    that changes electical energy to mechanical energy and
    goes through a Mechanical Motion Phaser Circuit im guessing
    like some springs,gears,pullys, some mechanical car parts
    to react and give a Displacement to mechanical motion
    and then use another transducer to convert mechanical energy
    to electrical energy again

[DiyFreaque]

Will this be rackmount or stompbox?

[walters]

1/) rackmount or bigger

2.) I know the transformer converts electrical energy into mechanical
    energy and then takes mechanical energy and converts it into
    eletrical energy

3.) How do i get a phase angle with mechanical energy or some how
    displace the mechanical energy
    i know a cap. displaces current to get a phase angle
    what Mechanical part or something with displace mechanical energy
    to give me a phase angle mechanical motion?

[walters]

1.) when i convert electrical energy into mechanical energy like on a
    Reverb tank what meter do i need to use when i put the probe
    on the spring i want to see the Waveform on the mechanical motion
    to see what is looks like when it convert my AC signal?


2.) I hookup up the Oscilloscope up to the reverb spring but i dont
    think its ment to see Mechanical Energy or Mechanical motion
    just electical.

[Gladmarr]

...you could also look at the old Tel-Ray oil can stuff.  That would be some weird technology to bring back.

http://p200.ezboard.com/btelrayoilcanaddicts

[walters]

1.) yes i have they made the Fender Dimension IV oil can delay
 
2.) i would like to simplify this Oil can more so people understand this
         1.) converts the electronical energy into mechanical energy
     2.) this is where im really confussed about myself is
   the Mechanical Motion or Mechanical energy Processing going on
   in the oil can. It seems like its a pickup transducer hookup up to
   a motor spindle so it can move around and around in this liquid
   i dont know what is it doing to the mechanical motion when this
   pickup transducer is going around and around in circle with this
   liquid
    3.) and How does it convert mechanical energy back to electrical
         energy?

[object88]

3.) and How does it convert mechanical energy back to electrical energy?

As far as I understant, it doesn't.  The oil can delay stores the signal electrically.  Read RG's Technology Of Oil Can Delays.

[walters]

1.) so it uses a brush of Conductive Wires with carinogenic Oil?


2.) a Rotating Capacitor what it that?


3.) The inputs and outputs of the Roating oil can delay
                    a.) Electrical Energy going in the input
            b.) The Conductive Wires it rotating around
                  with the carinogenic oil stores the Electrical energy

            C.) What is the output of this oil can delay
                       a.) is it Electrical Energy?

D.) How many times does the brush that stores the electrical energy
     have to go around inside the can for it to output a signal?

[toneman]

in addition to RGs page,
i think there's a whole website devoted to restoring these beasties.
T

[walters]

Where what web sites can answer my questions