Anyone see this? Use of a clean (really) booster

[Ben N]

http://tpngear.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169

Interesting article by Dave Barber.  I think the idea is to keep the input stage at its "sweet spot"--makes sense, although it is not 100% clear.  Any comments here?

Also, alternatives to a Launch Pad:  I guess any flat-frequency opamp boost, wither running on high or +/- voltage, or rail2rail operation.  Anyone know if a stock Microamp (Dunlop) can safely run on 18v?  And how to do this without the "sensitivity" control.

Ben

[Alex C]

I'm not familiar with the Launch Pad, but that's interesting.  I guess the point here is that the 24V allows for more clean headroom?  And that by driving the preamp tube(s) hard you can acheive a fat tone at lower volumes.  Does that sound right?  I'll check out the LP a little more, I'd like to know about the Sensitivity control too.

[Ben N]

My guess is the sensitivity control is just a vol control at the input, or possibly a gain control in the feedback loop of the opamp.  And, yeah, the 24v is so that whatever may precede it in the signal chain, boosts, overdrives, whatever, you don't end up overdriving the opamp and it stays transparent, even when you are overdriving the amp.

[sean k]

Its amazing really,I'm constantly surprised at what non electronic musicians are going for and going out and buying.Theres this quest for ultimate tone out there and if the hypes coming from the right place then these guys are buying.After this short and concise explanation of what the launch pad does it makes sense that clever marketing and networking are what sells product.Launch Pad is so much better than clean boost even though clean boost is a way better description.Launch Pad is also evocative of those heady days of the late sixties and early seventies when the space race was on and all the great american musical gear was in its golden age.Put that together with 24V and a single opamp and your on the way to the tone throne.I suppose the next step will be 35V as most of those opamps will go to 18V on each rail.Then you'd call it the Apollo Booster!

[brad]

on the way to the tone throne.

What a great name for a pedal!  "The Tone Throne"  ...with half-flush and full-flush controls!  :lol:

[amz-fx]

I'm not familiar with the Launch Pad, but that's interesting. I guess the point here is that the 24V allows for more clean headroom?

Yes, the idea is that more voltage on the power supply will give more clean headroom... you might be interesting in my article at:

Boosters, Gain and Distortion

regards, Jack

[Ivana]

1) look at the Titan Boost of John Hollis. 30 volt's headroom with 9 vol supply couse of output transformer...
2) IMHO if you need a REALLY CLEAN boost for the valve amp it is better to add a single valve triode input stage (how it done in many 2-inputs (lo-hi) amplifiers)...

[Johan]

....Then you'd call it the Apollo Booster!

..there allready is an "Apollo booster"...check out the vintage circuits over at GEOFEX..Apollo treble and bass...hehe

johan

[Ben N]

Sean:
OK, I agree, it's not "rocket science" (you should forgive the obvious pun)  :lol:  But that doesn't make it snake oil or a ripoff either.  Everyone knows that non-MV tube amps lose a lot of their clean magic as you turn them down to low volume, just because none of the tubes are in the sweet zone where they are working up a sweat.  And the input stage is never really chugging unless you hit it with a boosted signal, so even when you crank the amp, the sweetness is happening down the line--the input stage is just getting you there.  So the idea is, if I got it, that by ALWAYS presenting a boosted signal to the input stage (but not to the point of obviously overdriving it), you at least are getting more tone (and compression) out of that stage than you would otherwise, and you can turn the amp down to keep volume loow while still getting the tone.  Then when you do crank it or add additional boost at the input to overdrive it, that input stage that was once relegated to voltage gain is now singing along with the rest of the choir.

Again, rocket science it ain't, but the part about using the boost all the time to improve clean tone at low volume is kinda novel, at least to me.  I tried it (a bit) with a Microamp, an Ampeg Jet,  a DOD Bifet Preamp and a Vibrochamp -- so far nothing earthshaking, but it needs a bit more attention (and maybe an 18v pedal).

As for the name, I think the pedal should be used exclusively with the sixties Ampegs with the aerospace names:  Jet, Mercury, Rocket, Gemini.

BTW, my limited dealings with Barber, here and elsewhere, have been positive, and the guy by all acounts makes a good product for a reasonable price, with excellent service.  And note: while he is obviously touting his LaunchPad, he clearly says that any high-headroom clean boost will do the trick.  So I don't think he deserves to be attacked for this little tip, even if it is a tad self-serving.

Ivana:  Yeah, sure, a triode works, if you are homebrewing an amp.  Personally, I don't think it worth hacking my vintage Fenders and Ampegs and stressing their power supplies if sticking a simple preamp ahead of them will get me there.  I will give a gander to the Titan, although I imagine that a charge booster on the board along with the dual opamp (non-inverting gain stage, split to (+) output and unity gain invertin buffer for (-), right?) ought to be simpler.

Jack, you'ver certainly done this kind of thing before.  Any comment?

Ben

[sean k]

Umm,I'm not attacking Mr Barber in my post and I'm sorry if it seems like that.I went to the link and what Mr Barber says is really concise and helpful and his name choice of Launch pad is a very good one.Hats off to the man,I say.Its actually when you read further on and the other guy,who maybe runs the forum and has these things for sale that it gets really commercial.Then comes the guys who are going to put in there order straight away and this is where my commentary kicks in.I'm sorry if my ideas were misconstrued and its my fault for not being more concise.
 One thing I do know from experience is that most people at the top of their game are there because they are good at it as well as honest and humble.Its those below them that are drawn to that flame who tend to dirty things up somewhat because they push their way to the front,with their own agendas,and then start raving about how close they are and using that position.I'm not especially narked because this happens,thats life,but I am constantly surprised by how many people don't seem to take the time to see through it.Thats what I was trying to say...should have been a bit more on to it and seen through my own hype!...,instead of rushing to the front and having a shout

[Eric H]

Thats what I was trying to say...should have been a bit more on to it and seen through my own hype!...,instead of rushing to the front and having a shout

Haha --it's a slippery slope we slide on. ;-)
Good to read your posts here, Sean.

-Eric

[bwanasonic]

What a great name for a pedal!  "The Tone Throne"  ...with half-flush and full-flush controls!  :lol:

Anyone ever try finished a hammond box in porcelain paint? Wondering how I could rig a toilet handle to a bypass switch...


Kerry M :wink:  

[Ben N]

OK, Sean, yeah, I found some of that stuff sickeningly sycophantish too.  I think that crap happens anytime you have a board dedicated to single line of products.  That's why I read it there, but came back here to talk about it--and here some honest, possibly informed thoughts.  Your point is entirely understood (now).
Ben

[MRX2099]

anyone have a schematic for the Barber Launch Pad?
Thanks

[Ben N]

I don't believe that Barber's schematics are published, and I don't think anyone here would be likely to openly share it if they did have it.  But, as stated above, I doiubt it is much more complicated than a dual op amp, configured as a non-inverting low-distortion gain stage plus an inverting buffer, and a charge pump or something similar to get the high operating votage.

[ragtime8922]

1) look at the Titan Boost of John Hollis. 30 volt's headroom with 9 vol supply couse of output transformer...
2) IMHO if you need a REALLY CLEAN boost for the valve amp it is better to add a single valve triode input stage (how it done in many 2-inputs (lo-hi) amplifiers)...

Ahhh, I am working on that for us all as we speak. Tube boosts, overdrives and distortions. It might be a while but it'l be worth the wait. R&Ding til perfection. Small, powerful, small, smooth and did I say small???......

[Ben N]

Do tell!

[ragtime8922]

Do tell!

I spent the past few months on R&D and mostly to learn tubes and tube amps. Being from the FX world it naturally got my wheels spinning and, of course, my bros here on the forum will get my first complete schematics and the masters here can improve them MUCH further.
      I'm auditioning a few different tubes and sizing down the whole project(s) to fit in to standard boxes. Pedals.
      I'll get them posted as soon as posible Ben.

[David Barber]

anyone have a schematic for the Barber Launch Pad?
Thanks

This one is simple enough to not need a schematic, the Sensitivity control is indeed a feedback loop adjustment of an “in phase” wired TL072 op-amp, the volume controls are located at the output of each phase that is represented, the higher voltage is attained via the popular dc to dc converter that is tripling the battery (and loss under load gets you 24 volts in an honest land). The circuit is very close to a standard balanced line driver that you can find about a gazillion schematics of on the internet. Download some schematics of standard balanced line drivers add the features you need and presto!

The use of a clean boost at the input can help setup nicer gain staging without the need for “cluttered” sounding high output pickups…as stated any quality clean boost will work well.


David

[cd]

[quote="David Barber]Download some schematics of standard balanced line drivers add the features you need and presto!
[/quote]

And of course, I'll be the one to add: if you can build it the same or better for less than Barber, I'll buy a dozen of them!!!  It just can't be done!