DIY SUSTAINER...hear for yourself

[psw]

Ok...it's not perfect...I still get a "pop" when I turn it off...but I've finally been able to get some sounds up of my DIY SUSTAINER, infamous from the long running, and very long, sustainer thread over at Project Guitar...

So here's the link to the Sustainer Sounds Thread....
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17852

This is not a promotion for PG by the way, nor is the Sustainer really a "stompbox" but I'm sure some will be interested to hear what the thing sounds like...so there it is....

psw

[Bernardduur]

Wow.... Like the beckistan sound BTW

2 sounds don't work (trash / who).

[psw]

Thanks Bernardduur

Wow.... Like the beckistan sound BTW

Yeah...I'm a major JB fan, and that worked out OK...it certainly shows off the range of the device...

Everything was recorded with a cheap Korg Toneworks AX1G digital effect unit, straight into the computer through headphones, one guitar, no edits..

That beckistan sound is just a mild distortion with a digital echo in the back...nothing fancy...

The "effect" is those amazingly high harmonics...some of those sounds are sounding well above the 40th fret. Those sounds pulled up with the trem are notes along the g string 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th and pulled up with the trem to 12th. The guitar is a pretty standard traditional trem, no floyds or anything! But they 'sound' well above the played notes don't they...they really scream (but without all the distortion, volume and metal posturing usually required or associated with such an effect)

One cool thing is that you don't actually have to pick a note at all...just place your finger down and the notes swell up from nowhere...there's a few sounds like that. Sliding a finger around, once a harmonic is established, sustains at that harmonic too as in the last phrase of that satch tune...

2 sounds don't work (trash / who).

You're the first to mention it...still, at the top of the post there's a link to the site of the member who's hosting them for me, you should be able to download directly from there...give it a go...I know I had trouble posting those two url's, so thanks...I'll look into it!

So you know what you're missing...the thrash one is pretty forgettable, max distortion to demonstrate those typical metal squeels and bombs...

The 'Who Trembles' track is probably more of interest to pedal geeks...it demonstrates how a sustainer guitar can radically expand the use of conventional effects. I used a simple tremolo effect that gives a constant on-off beat to the drone. By switching the harmonic switch back and forth, the actual string changes it's mode of vibration from it's fundumental through it's related harmonics...

The effect is similar to the synth on the Who's "Baba O'Reily" or "Who are you". Imagine what some kind of auto-filter could do with those constant beats. And it's not limited to drones, playing chords automatically creates a sustained bass effect. And, you can play stuff over the top while the effect continues...

A sub project of the sustainer project was to accentuate the "synth" like qualities of these extended note capabilities...you also have quite a bit of control over dynamics, attack and decay with careful dampening techniques...it really is very responsive to a players touch and technique. It's obviously going to take a lot more practice to really exploit the possibilities of it...

Thanks for the feedback...it's really appreciated...

psw

[Bernardduur]

I read the tutorial...... Is it THAT easy?

Man, I am making one!

One question:
How did you make the "harmonic" part because I can't seem to find it in the tutorial (and I don't have that much time to read the whole sustainer thread......)

Thanks!

[Johnny G]

psw, well played. im listening to these sound clips and im really amazed. you've done a hell of a job.

now, when can we start getting them?

[robotboy]

Cool man! It reminds me of my Fernandez Sustainer guitar that I used to own. It had two switches. One was on/off and the other was a three way to choose switch the sustain between note played/one octave up/two octaves up. I played with that thing until it broke... One fun thing to do with it was using without an amp and just sitting there holding out notes forever. That used to freak people out...

[Marcos - Munky]

Sounds cool. Maybe you can use some of the pop-less bypass diagrams used in stompboxes, but use it in the sustainer. I would love to have a sustainer in my guitar.

[John Lyons]

Is there an actuall tutorial? Did I miss it? I've read around a bit on the Project guitar site but didn't see it. Looks really cool!

I'd like to see the construction and schematic etc

Thanks

John

[Paul Marossy]

I'd like to see the construction and schematic etc

Yes, a job very well done. But, I think psw will be keeping the thing under wraps as far as specifics go. He has a lot of time and effort invested in the project. After all, this is an alternative to the current Sustainiac/ebow type system, and I think it's potentially quite marketable due to minimal modifications required for installation in the guitar.

[Bernardduur]

Turorial at http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=16984

Very nice, including schematics and so. I'm still searching for the harmonic part.

[transient]

Harmonic switch is really easy, you just swap the wires going to the driver to switch between fundamental/harmonic mode.

You get normal sustain when the driver is in phase with the string vibration. But when it is out of phase, the fundamental note gets canceled out leaving you with its harmonics.

PSW, i'm downloading the samples

...
emre

[Bernardduur]

Ah..... so switch the + and the - on the driver side.... THANKS!

[psw]

Thanks everyone...It truely is an amazing device...and so much fun to play.... :lol:

But, I think psw will be keeping the thing under wraps as far as specifics go.

Well, actually I've recently revealed all on my use of this technology...those ultra-miniture hex drivers however are mine...

I guess all I can ask is that if people do make these things they share their experiences and results with people so the thing can keep developing...that'll help mine become even better...!!!!

I was a little concerned about G'Mikes tutorial...that isn't the circuit I'm using and he can't get the high b & e to respond, and it doesn't work in harmonic mode at all....!!! But, hey, he was keen and he did link back to the thread and give credit...

There's also a pictorial in the Sustainer Thread of the actual building of the pickup/driver combo I'm using now, around page 49-ish I believe...

The only reason I haven't shown exactly how I'm doing it is that there are still problems...that "pop" has got to go, but I've tried a lot of  things...this isn't my area so if anyone's got any suggestions.... :wink:

It's like this...if I were to say...this the way to build a fuzz box...never mind that it pops and doesn't do what it's supposed to, and I'm the only one who seems to be able to get the thing to actually work...it really wouldn't help knowing the schematic...anyway, the secret's in the driver by the way....

The principle is simple...
bridge pickup->preamp->LM386 amp->phase switch->driver coil

Getting the design right is a little more tricky...
It seems like a compact, slim coil of about 8 ohms of 0.2mm wire has given best results. My best drivers have been about 4mm thick. This is about 200 turns and quite easy to wind by hand. The core of the coil could be made of a number of materials, I've simply used a bit of 3mm steel bar to keep with the DIY aesthetics...ferrite might be better, but how you going to cut it!

Anyway...the whole thing is really just getting all the elements right, fix that pop for me, maybe streamline what is a pretty basic circuit concept, and then I will do a an offical PSW tutorial...there's just a few little problems to iron out....

Anyway...glad you all seemed to be impressed...it certainly has the WoW factor....!

psw

[Somicide]

this seems too cool, somebody fix that pop!

PnL,

Jeff

[Bernardduur]

Ah, I once followed the thread to page 32 (were still there at the time) and tried my own own the sustainer; than my attention had to be used on some other stuff and the idea went in the closet.

Now it is time to get it out again. Thanks for the soundsamples; they got me starting again.

[psw]

Sounds cool. Maybe you can use some of the pop-less bypass diagrams used in stompboxes, but use it in the sustainer. I would love to have a sustainer in my guitar.

Hey...maybe some of you guys could point me in the right direction for the popless switching type of ideas...there's just so much stuff here..!!!

What you're looking at is a basic generic LM386 amp with a preamp...very simple (wouldn't mind making my circuit smaller but that fetzer/ruby schematic in G'Mikes tutorial is being tried by a few people and is v. small).

You only get the "pop" when switching the device off (not on)...I'm already using a 4PDT switch to wire my guitar...check out the current page {61} of the thread to see a drawing of that and the harmonic switch...

It maybe that digital switching is the go...it's quite a difficult job (depending on your guitar)...I had to rewire the whole thing to work it out for mine, but every guitar's likely to be different...

I had wondered if you put a little buffer on the guitar that's always on (making it active) the off pop of the sustainer might be avoided as the guitar wouldn't actually be turned off...or perhaps just turning off the poweramp part and leaving the preamp on when the sustainer is off and the guitar's plugged in....

Any thoughts on these ideas...you guy's would know heaps more about this type of thing than me... :wink:

pete

this seems too cool, somebody fix that pop!

Oh...it really is too cool....

[Marcos - Munky]

Did you tried to put a 1M resistor connected between the input of the preamp (where the preamp and the pickup are connected) and ground, and one 1M resistor between the output cap of the 386 amp (where  the 386 amp and the phase switch are connected, I believe) and ground? This is a trick that is used almost all the time to get pop-less bypass.

[psw]

I tried something like that but not two resistors...I'll give it a go...thanks for the tip....

[NaBo]

Time to re-gut this little number (the homemade one of course... THE FURY ).  Thanks so much for posting all the info.  Should be fun to mess around with

[Peter Snowberg]

That sounds really great!

I've wondered about this sort of thing for quite a while. Thank you so much for posting all your info.

While it is a goody, the 386 is as old as the hills and there are lots of other little amp chips available these days with pop-less operation.

Remember that there are hundreds of chips that were introduced 20 years after the 386, which have already become obsolete.

Philips is one company to check with, TI is another.

Oh yea... when it comes to other chips out there, the fact that your driver is isolated from the signal ground allows you to use bridge configuration
outputs. That greatly expands the number of chips available. You might be able to get this whole thing to run at 3.6V in which case you could use a lithium polymer battery and reduce the size drastically while greatly increasing service life. The only gotcha is the need for a real Li-poly battery charger circuit, but there are zillions of those out there too. (see Maxim and Linear Technology to start)