I want to learn

[Ponchus]

Hi there,
This might sound stupid, but I'm wondering how a person learns about all this building stuff. Is this what an Electrical Engineering degree encompasses?

I'd love to learn from books, but I haven't found anything that's TRULLY written for the layperson (AKA electromoron). I tried "Electronic Projects for Guitarists" and it was a little too advanced for me. The book showed schematics, but not actual builds. There was even a sidebar that explained that showing builds was outside the scope of the book. So I was left looking at schematics without any idea of how to connect the pieces, how to get a circuit board, etc. Apparently, I should have bought "Electronic Projects for Musicians", since that book is the "prequel"...haven't found it in my local Barnes and Nobles yet though. I picked up another book (forgot the exact name, but it was something like "Teach Yourself Electronics" or "DIY Electronics" or something to that extent), and while it was somewhat beginner for a chapter or two, it quickly assumes that the reader has previous knowledge. It also was so conceptual, without any real-world applications, that I quickly lost interest.

The FAQ's on this site and some of the other sites out there are pretty good, but they also quickly start using language that leaves me in the dust.

Also, I don't want to simply build pedals by following directions. I want to do that as well, but how does someone like Analogman or Keeley or half of you guys in this forum know how to remove transistor A and replace it with transistor B to get a mellower sound and so on? It amazes me, and I'd love to learn...any suggestions on some truly beginner reading material, or should I just enroll in college :-) ?

Thanks

[geertjacobs]

This forum also has a section on a beginner project (link on main page).
It has a step-by-step tutorial on a simple but great sounding project. Start there.

If you learn about new stuff and have questions, use the FAQ sections and search function.
The archive contains threads on more topics than you can imagine...

[gaussmarkov]

for most of us, i think this is a long, slow, sometimes frustrating, usually interesting adventure.  i've seen a lot of people mention how they read some things (like FAQs and these threads) over hundreds of times and learn a little bit more many of those times.  i've read things and not understood them until much later when i ran into another bit of info that made them clear or clearer.

also, by jumping in and trying to build something, even when it's just connecting the dots, you pick up on some things.  or you hit a snag and then eventually figure out what was wrong.  or you don't figure it out and then you ask the grey beards here for help.  if you look through previous threads, you will also find that your question has been posted quite a few times by others.  many of us started in a very similar way as you.

i find it very much like those text-based adventure games on computers in the late '70s.  you reach a door and can't open it.  you try a bunch of stuff and it still doesn't open.  you wander around the adventure some more picking up whatever you can find and carry and go back to try the door again.  eventually you get the door open ... sweet.  and you're hooked. 

[geertjacobs]

Re-read your post and noticed that you also want to learn about "tuning" effect pedals.
Simply put, tuning an effect pedal is about changing parameters of a certain building block of the schematic of that effect.
Once you understand how the building blocks work, then you can start tweaking the parameters of a block to your taste.

[wampcat1]

Hi there,
This might sound stupid, but I'm wondering how a person learns about all this building stuff. Is this what an Electrical Engineering degree encompasses?
..................... I want to do that as well, but how does someone like Analogman or Keeley or half of you guys in this forum know how to remove transistor A and replace it with transistor B to get a mellower sound and so on? It amazes me, and I'd love to learn...any suggestions on some truly beginner reading material, or should I just enroll in college :-) ?

Thanks

Risking of sounding 'spamish', I thought I'd throw this in -- I actually have had a ton of request from people in your position.

I'm actually writing another book that explains all this, and it is actually tailored towards someone that has no idea of where to start or even what the difference is between a cap and a resistor, sort of similar to my book on mods at guitartone.net.
I'm about 2 weeks away from being finished, so you might sign up on my website to be updated of when it's done, members will get a chance to buy it at half price.

Thanks,
Brian

[gez]

Live with the confusion and be persistent.  Eventually things fall into place but there will always be areas that you're unsure of.  As time goes by the penny drops and you understand some of the grey areas a little better...then new ones take their place!  Start simple and stick with it...it's an ongoing thing!

[gez]

double post!

[Mark Hammer]

It doesn't take as long as it used to, but it takes a couple of years at least. I'm certainly not the last word on this, but I know I am often able to make suggestions to folks about mods that make a real difference to them (because they tell me so).  I *have* no formal electronics training (neither does Mike "Vsat" Irwin, and he's my personal guru).  So how do I do it?  I gather schematics and I stare atthem.  If I'm going shopping with the family and there is a chance I might be waiting n line or in the car, I bring a binder ofschematics.  Bit bybit, inch by inch, the things that are different between pedals start to emerge (like those magic eye drawings), and you start to get a sense of what you can change to produce what outcome.  If I had formal training, it would probably come a lot faster, but I find that simply studying schematics for the same kind of effect can be very helpful.

Check your public library or local university library to see if they have back issues of any of the popular hobby-electronics magazines like Popular Electronics, Radio Electonics, Electronics Today, Elektor, Wireless World, Practical Electronics, etc.  There are (or were in some instances) project articles that had step by step walk-throughs of circuits.  Very helpful.

For the rest, stay tuned to this forum, read the archives, and ask clear questions that provoke useful answers.

[wampcat1]

OH, and by far the best way is to search every post that Mark Hammer has posted -- much, much much to be learned from this fellow!

[Garrett]

I have an associates degree in Electronic Engineering.  Back 10 in school I remeber going over semiconductors and all the fundamentals of electrical components.  I sure wasn't building DIY pedals then.  I wish i was.  But I still have my old book which i refer to from time to time.
But I don't design any circuits i just build projects already layed out.  I have other hobbies too ya know.  Anyways point being
a local community college should have a class  you could take.  But in designing circuits your talking about a lot of time on the bench, studying what others have done, etc... etc.....    I would think you have to have a major drive...  Like some members of this forum....  Not me that's for sure....     I dabble in recording and song writing as well as stomp box projects

[ryanscissorhands]

First off, WELCOME!

A year and a half ago, I had the same feeling--I want to learn, but how?

If you want to learn how circuits work, there is plenty of information out there in books and on the net. If that's as far as you want to go, don't take 4 years of grilling school.

I have built only two pedals so far, but they're finished. I mean painted and clearcoated, finalized. There's a lot more to a pedal than electronics, I've learned, and the only way to learn is by doing. Think of pedal building the way you'd think of sprinting. You wouldn't learn how to be a sprinter by reading books, you'd practice.

(Now of course, the thing with electronics is knowing enough before you start that you won't fry/kill anything/anyone. Once you have that down, experiment away.

When I came to this forum, I didn't know what a transistor was. Or an opamp. Or a timer, or an LDR. Since then I've modded a basic design to make a simple looper pedal/dual booster that acts like a Boss Line selector. All I did was that I READ EVERY POST OF EVERY THREAD ON THIS VERY FORUM! EVen if I didn't know what was going on or what they were talking about, you learn it. First you learn the language, then the function of each part, then you can begin to look at schematics and understand what is going on with the signal.

Be patient with your learning, and you will find yourself ready to build a pedal in a few months. I highly recommend searching the forum's archives for information if you have a question. Feel free to ask them, but many have asked them already, and there have been some damn good responses--I know, I asked almost every question there is.

Look around--there's a lot of info out there. It may be overwhelming at first, but if you read every new post for a month, I guarantee that you'll start to get the feel for this stuff.

If you have any short, simple questions about anything, private message me, and I'll help out if I can.

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

ryan is definately on to something. don't be picky about which threads you read... if it looks even remotely interesting, watch it.

reading the articles at various web sites will help you buy filling your head with simple concepts. also, it will your head with difficult concepts that actually have simple applications, given a different perspective. just go to anything linked to this forum, and you'll be in a mountain of knowledge.

welcome to the forum, BTW! 

(EDIT: something in there looked pretty silly...)

[petemoore]

  Speed skimming works, because you're exposing yourself to alot of info, and you can sort out the parts that make any sense to you.
  I still can only sometimes relate to the numerical equations, this is a much slower comprehension process for me, most of the time they are related to a circuit or fragment, or just a couple of components, maybe mainly only focusing only on one.
  The 'language' becomes increasingly easier to comprehend [for me that's slowly], as bits of it are committed to memory, I still would like to see a second beginner forum dedicated to starting with single, simple equations, but with 'exploded view' explanations.
  Just 'getting' that increasingly larger value caps let increasingly lower frequencies pass is a big one, then having a circuit to test with so you can have those LF's either pass through them in the signal path [that's a high pass filter, for 'trebley'], or have them pass FRom the Signal path to ground [that's a Low Pass filter, makes it bassy]...having the circuit to mess around with takes alot of 'uh...' and turns them to into 'Oh!'.
  Read, read more, read again, find new reads, then just about the time you think you're almost done reading, start over. Try the links from the links at the top of this page.

[KORGULL]

Lots of good advice so far, not much I can add - except maybe that most of the stompbox sites have pretty good "beginner's guide" type tutorials - you can get a pretty good overview of building a pedal - from how to solder, to painting the box and adding decals.
I printed out alot of stuff that looked like the essential basics and looked them over alot and kept them handy when I am building. The stomp switch wiring diagram in the beginner's project on this site was an especially helpful document to keep in view when building.
A pretty good book that you can find at Barnes & noble that explains the very basics of electronics in general - everything from parts identification to PCB making and basic circuit theory is "Electronics For Dummies." It also has a bunch of projects in the back.
I also like "Starting Electronics" by Keith Brindley.
It seems you can't have too many books on this subject. Sometimes one writer will clarify one little detail that will allow you to understand something you just couldn't "get" when reading it in another book.
I've come to the conclusion that you just need to stick with it and over time the variuos bits and pieces start to make sense.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

For someone who knows nothing whatever about electronics, and wants to get an intuitive feeling, I recommend "There Are No Electrons" by Amdahl. Written for highschool kids, but it gives you a feel, so then when you start making simple fx, you have some idea of what the electrons are doing.
I have nothing against people doing an EE degree, but unless you are very good at (and enjoy) maths, don't do it. And, it is possible today to do an EE degree without touching  a soldering iron, so again, maybe it isn't for you!!
And keep askign questions here, because any tie someone asks something, there's a couple of hundred learn something (sometimes including the guy answering).

[Ponchus]

hey guys
Thanks for all the great responses, they definitely made me feel welcome and that I wasn't the only one who started out as ignorant as I am...I will solder on (or is it soldier on?) until I either get it, or kill myself trying. Hey not a bad way go though, huh?   

[R.G.]

For a start, go find and read "There are no electrons" by David Amdahl.

[tiges_ tendres]

I'm in a similar positon to you.  Luckily for me I had a friend who taught me to solder, but just refused to help me with a kit I bought.

He gave me some pointers but told me I wasn't going to learn anything if he did everything.

Start at the bottom and work your way up.  I started with some easy circuits from runoffgroove.com, and started my learning adventure from there!

Try a bazz fuss, very simple, and you get a pleasing result.

3 months ago I knew nothing, 2 months ago I was barely able to use perf board, now I am making my own circuit boards!  I'm starting to understand what all the parts do, and what substituting parts does, but its going to be a while before I can just look at a circuit and immediately know what to mod.

Stick around, read up on whatever you can get.  This site has saved my bacon.  Lots of helpful people who know pretty much everything!