TDA1022 Flanger

Thomeeque · June 09, 2009, 06:52:40 AM

Quote from: juancra on June 08, 2009, 08:30:10 PM
What problems did you have when taking sound samples? Have you tried using soft like Audacity?

I've never did this before, so I'm probably facing all possible technical problems one can face plus I have to decide what exactly I want to present and the way I want to present it (the "basic concept", if you will

), there are so many options - I maybe sound crazy, but I've seen/heard lot of presentations which have done more bad than good for the presented subject, I don't want to do this to my baby

After all it's musical equipment, so even it's presentation is piece of art as well

.

Edit: And it's not only presentation of my "baby" but of me as well (damn, I will be playing the guitar there

), that's probably my biggest issue to be absolutely honest

Coincidentally there are pretty cool presentations of Electric Mistress (e.g. this or this one), but that's extreme, don't expect nothing like that from me for sure

Quote from: StephenGiles on June 09, 2009, 05:28:49 AM
It is definitely worth building an Electric Mistress with TDA 1022. It may be just a little noisier than the SAD 1024.

Even when there are other BBDs (MN3x07 namely) available? In theory, imo it should be possible to get more fidelity (less noise) using MN3x07. I have used TDA in my clone because I have expected it would be the easiest replacement at the beginning (same clock, no need for 4049 buffer). If I would start today, I would definitely consider MN3x07 as an option (maybe doubled).

T.

Mark Hammer · June 09, 2009, 03:28:47 PM

If you would like to show off the flanger, I would suggest tuning a radio in between stations to produce nice white-to-pink noise, and use that as your signal source. Flangers always sound best with a wide-bandwidth signal. And equally important, nobody has to apologise for their playing (even when they play well), or wonder if the amp is playing a big role in how the pedal sounds.

Noise source into flanger into sound-card gets a thumbs up from me.

StephenGiles · June 09, 2009, 03:56:04 PM

Quote from: Mark Hammer on June 09, 2009, 03:28:47 PM
If you would like to show off the flanger, I would suggest tuning a radio in between stations to produce nice white-to-pink noise, and use that as your signal source. Flangers always sound best with a wide-bandwidth signal. And equally important, nobody has to apologise for their playing (even when they play well), or wonder if the amp is playing a big role in how the pedal sounds.

Noise source into flanger into sound-card gets a thumbs up from me.

I fully agree. Slowly played chords also provide a good demo for a flanger, flash guitar solos tend to distract from the flanger to my ears.

juancra · June 09, 2009, 09:30:46 PM

Quote
Even when there are other BBDs (MN3x07 namely) available? In theory, imo it should be possible to get more fidelity (less noise) using MN3x07. I have used TDA in my clone because I have expected it would be the easiest replacement at the beginning (same clock, no need for 4049 buffer). If I would start today, I would definitely consider MN3x07 as an option (maybe doubled).

T.

I always thought that TDA1022 is a better replacement for the SAD chip because its clock frequency ranges are more closer to the SAD than MN3007 are. Am I right? However, I don't know how much noisier is TDA when compared to MN series...

In other order of things, being not to good playing is not a minor issue when making a sample of a proyect one has built. It happened to me more that one time that I didn't want to publish a work or proyect because I'm not to good in guitar as i'm building pedals

!

Thomeeque · June 11, 2009, 06:01:06 AM

Thanks for encouragement and tips, guys! Tommorow I have day-off, so I'll try to create ... well, something

Quote from: juancra on June 09, 2009, 09:30:46 PM
I always thought that TDA1022 is a better replacement for the SAD chip because its clock frequency ranges are more closer to the SAD than MN3007 are. Am I right? However, I don't know how much noisier is TDA when compared to MN series...

Well, for MN3x07 you just need to double clock frequency (and maybe buffer clock signals by 4049 buffer /see my buffer board schemo/) and you are in the same range with benefit of less quantisation noise (theoretically equal to SAD in parallel-multiplex mode). And ADA Flanger clonning guys proved, that MN3x07's are capable of handling these clock frequencies. SNR is almost same for both (TDA datasheet states 74dB, MN3207 datasheet states 73dB). And TDA requires boosting buffer, MN3x07 (maybe) not..

Damn, now I ask myself, why the hell did I mess with TDA when there is a cheap and available MN3207 (even in my stash)?

But it was just quick "analysis" - there may be some catches as well which I just don't see now (as I didn't when staring this project).

T.

oldschoolanalog · June 11, 2009, 09:30:28 AM

Just have to point out that the real A/DA flanger "cloning guys" are gents that go by the names Lorber, Bergman, Irwin, Giles... (Hope I didn't leave anybody out). The "cloning guys" you refer to owe it all to them. Just carrying on the tradition, so to speak.
Dave

juancra · June 18, 2009, 08:01:47 PM

Hey Tom?

What happened after all with your efforts in this schem? Could you record samples after all?

Thomeeque · June 19, 2009, 08:33:05 AM

Hi juancra & all!

Here it is, finally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXxmixk46Xo*

Sorry that it took so long, I'm notorious underestimater plus I was bit busy with other stuff last week..

Note: I still have to update those schematics, but most of the latest changes are not interesting soundwise - there is only one, which definitely influenced sound: I have increased feedback capacitor (C4 on main board) from 2n2 to 17.2nF (2.2+15) to make feedback sound fatter - it's a step from original EM character (maybe closer to "standard" flangers), but I like it more this way.

Enjoy!

T.

*Recording chain: American Vintage 57 Strat => (BSIAB2) => EM1022 => BOSS JamStation JS-5 (as speaker simulator only) => PC

Auke Haarsma · June 19, 2009, 09:06:42 AM

Sound really good.

I like what you did with showing the settings in the clip!

Cool stuff!

oldschoolanalog · June 19, 2009, 10:50:48 AM

Nice!

Thomeeque · June 19, 2009, 11:22:58 AM

Thanks guys, I'm glad you like it

T.

oldschoolanalog · June 19, 2009, 07:07:40 PM

Any chance of a layout sometime in the future?
I have a handful of TDA1022's that are just saying, "Build something with me!"
(Yes, BBD's speak to me

. And yes, I answer them

.)
Thanks again Tomas.

juancra · June 19, 2009, 07:51:31 PM

Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 19, 2009, 07:07:40 PM

(Yes, BBD's speak to me . And yes, I answer them .)

Thank God... I thought that I was the only one!!

I regularly google argentinan sites for the word "mn3005" to see if something new appears on the horizon!

+1 for a layout!

Thomeeque · June 21, 2009, 12:39:59 PM

Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 19, 2009, 07:07:40 PM
Any chance of a layout sometime in the future?
I have a handful of TDA1022's that are just saying, "Build something with me!"
(Yes, BBD's speak to me . And yes, I answer them .)
Thanks again Tomas.

Hi!

As I have stated earlier, PCB layout I have used (and the only one existing at the time) is obsolete due to lot of modifications I've made lately. I have already promised to help juancra with his build (not half disinterestedly

), so I will update the layout, but it will take some time - some other duties had piled-up meanwhile

. So two scenarios are possible: either I can provide the obsolete layout (Eagle project) with updated schematics right now, so you can update it yourself, or you can wait for my update. So, how strong is that TDA's "obtrusion"?

T.

oldschoolanalog · June 21, 2009, 03:17:40 PM

Is the schematic (This thread; page 1; reply 18) the up to date one?
Just want to know in case the urge to perf gets a hold of me. If the perf bug doesn't bite, then I'll wait patiently. And... I'll hire someone to fabricate a PCB for me

.
Either way, Thanks alot!
Dave

Ice-9 · June 21, 2009, 05:22:45 PM

Hi Thomeeque, I've just seen the youtube clip and it sounds fantastic. I've read this thread from the beggining and i congratulate you on what you have done with the TDA1022, i just now wish i had a couple of them.

Thomeeque · June 22, 2009, 05:19:33 AM

Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 21, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
Is the schematic (This thread; page 1; reply 18) the up to date one?

Nope, these are:

Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 21, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
Just want to know in case the urge to perf gets a hold of me. If the perf bug doesn't bite, then I'll wait patiently. And... I'll hire someone to fabricate a PCB for me .
Either way, Thanks alot!
Dave

My pleasure

Quote from: Ice-9 on June 21, 2009, 05:22:45 PM
Hi Thomeeque, I've just seen the youtube clip and it sounds fantastic. I've read this thread from the beggining and i congratulate you on what you have done with the TDA1022, i just now wish i had a couple of them.

Thanks, Mick, your initial input helped a lot!

T.

quarara · June 23, 2009, 06:54:48 AM

really impressive! good work!

Thomeeque · June 23, 2009, 07:08:12 AM

Quote from: quarara on June 23, 2009, 06:54:48 AM
really impressive! good work!

Thanks, Luigi!

Thomeeque · July 05, 2009, 03:41:54 PM

Hi!

So here it is:

EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf

It took ages, I know and I'm sorry for that, but there was still something else to do - hopefully there is still somebody interested

T.

PS: As in case of the demo I did something like this for the first time and it's draft, so if you see something stupid or missing there, please don't hasitate to let me know (btw. I have to finish "Setup Hints" chapter yet..).

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TDA1022 Flanger