I hate my Crybaby GCB-95, what can I replace it with?

[T1bbles]

I'm happy to rip the board out and replace it completely, keeping the enclosure and the pot if possible.

Which wah circuits sound good? I'm after a nice full 'Wow' sound, like the main riff in Goliath by The Mars Volta.

A Bit Of Essential Background;

The reason I'm replacing my GCB-95 is because I now use a ZVex Fuzz Factory as my main drive pedal now, and the crybaby goes right after it, and for some reason switching on the crybaby causes a horrid drop in volume, pulling the treadle back makes the signal near inaudible, and when full up simply makes my guitar sound really harsh and nasal. Sounds crap.

I previously used a Big Muff Pi as my main drive, and the wah worked really well placed before it, but this doesn't work with the factory.

I've modded it to hell and back, and nothing works, I just need to replace the damn thing!

So, as an added little question, has anyone got good results with a wah pedal placed after a fuzz factory?

Thanks guys,

Martin

[svstee]

Did you ever try it with the wah after the fuzz? Not my cup of tea, but some guys swear by it.

[Paul Marossy]

In my opinion, the GCB-95 is preferable to some other wah circuit because of the input buffer. Putting some other wah circuit in there probably isn't going to be a cure all.

From www.geofex.com :

Loss of signal level

After putting in a true bypass switch, people often find that they lose a bit of volume when the wah is kicked in. This comes from one of two places; either the forward gain of the wah circuit is a bit below one, or the loading of the wah circuit cuts the guitar signal down a bit. You can correct for this by lowering the value of the 68K input resistor somewhat (to 33K-47K maybe) to increase the gain. Notice that this also lowers the input impedance and may change the tone of the wah in the effect setting. The bypass setting will be unaffected because of the true bypass switching.

"Wah" range noticeably decreased when certain effects used AFTER the wah.

The input impedance of the effect is loading down the output of the wah, as the input impedance of the next effect appears effectively in parallel with the collector resistor of Q1. This directly cuts the gain, which we've seen is responsible for the variable-capacitance effect that gives the wah its variable-frequency sound. The solution is pretty simple - buffer either the input of the following effect or the output of the wah.

If you modded the heck out of it, then I assume that you also true bypassed it? That can cause another set of problems. I think you need to go after the source of the problem(s) instead of blaming it on the wah pedal circuit. The GCB-95 circuit is not all that bad with a few tweaks.

Also, read this page for why you have this problem in the first place - http://www.foxroxelectronics.com/Wah%20retrofit%202.html

[T1bbles]

Atm the Fuzz Factory comes first, then the Crybaby, has to be that way cuz the factory hates having stuff before it, it begins squeeling and wailing at me.

The mods I did were, as far as I can remember;

true bypass
buffer removal
changed a resistor to give more volume
changed another resistor to give more volume and bass

Got them off of the stinkfoot crybaby modding page.

[Paul Marossy]

This is a case where I don't feel that true bypass is better. In any case, it sounds like your wah pedal needs an output buffer so it can drive the Fuzz Factory after it. Check out this page for some ideas:  http://www.tonepad.com/getFileInfo.asp?id=59

[jkokura]

I'm going to try the GGG wah. I have the board to do the two inductor version and I'll probably go all out and put the switches in for doing one, the other or both inductors in series, and the switch for all the various cap options.

I dunno if that sounds good to you, but I priced one out - it'll be about 150 bucks for the blank wah case, top of line inductors and wah pot for mine. I bet you could do one for less than 75 bucks if you went with one inductor and reused your dunlop case.

Jacob

[T1bbles]

The wah is after the fuzz factory, so it's the factory driving the wah. That's why I find the way it's acting so strange.

The mods I did were intended to fix the problem, so the stock Rev.E GCB-95 setup was doing the exact same thing as it's doing now, I've changed the overall tone of the pedal, but it's still not working as expected.

Does anyone here have a Fuzz Factory and GCB-95? or any wah pedal? If so can you place your wah pedal after your factory and see what it sounds like and get back to me? I bet I've done something wrong

Thanks for all the help btw guys!

That tonepad PCB for making vol/wah circuits is pretty nifty, definately gonna etch me one of them, and that GGG circuit sounds pretty sweet! Never heard of a wah circuit with 2 inductors before

[Paul Marossy]

Oops, my mistake, Fuzz Factory is driving wah. But now your wah has no input buffer. Did it act like this when it still had the input buffer in it? I have both a Fuzz Factory and a slightly modded GCB-95, but I can't do any tests right this minute.

[T1bbles]

Its alright dude, I don't expect you to drop everything for moi

It did do this when the buffer was there, I actually removed the buffer because I assumed that it was the buffer causing the problem of course that was before I found this wonderful forum, which is quite simply, a gold mine of knowledge

[kungpow79]

Fuzz Factory comes first, then the Crybaby, has to be that way cuz the factory hates having stuff before it, it begins squeeling and wailing at me

Just to be clear, you have the Fuzz FIRST, Then the Wah.  Every set up I've seen including my own, has the wah first, then into any dirt boxes.  And it sounds like crap when you place wah then fuzz?  hmmm...

Maybe try reducing the sweep to the treble boost... what is it, take out the screw then adjust the treadle thingy, so when you toe down, there is less treble boost.  Here it is:  see Easy Range adjustment http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/mods/dunlop.htm#_Step_2b._mods

I previously used a Big Muff Pi as my main drive, and the wah worked really well placed before it, but this doesn't work with the factory.

I'd say your problem is just the Fuzz Factory then.  Sorry bud.  Get a new fuzz box

[Thomeeque]

 Hi!

• Wah placed after distortion will never make same effect as wah placed before it.
• You should ask ZVex, why their box has problems with signal from the most common wah circuit used on the planet and how to solve it (if it's the same reason as in case of Fuzz Face, output buffer on Wah should solve it, as noted in Paul's reply already)

Good luck, T.

[bumblebee]

V847 and the foxrox retro fit. Layouts for both can be found online.

[DougH]

I don't like the sound of wah after fuzz and maybe you just don't like this sound as well. (?)

If you want to try getting the wah to work in front of the fuzz, I can help. The fuzz factory is a fuzz face derivation IIRC, and will have an extremely low input impedance. The way it loads your passive guitar pickup is a big part of the sound shaping it does. So when you insert something between the guitar and fuzz box, it can muck with the sound in a bad way.

I have a GCB-95 and the way I got it to work in front of a fuzz face was to 1) install a simple JFET buffer on the output of the wah, and 2) install a 47k series resistor on the output of the buffer (after a coupling cap of course). Don't put a pull-down resistor on the output of the 47k. The resistor will help the wah work better with a low impedance input device, like a fuzz face, but is not high enough to really affect it with a high impedance input device like an amp (1M).

In my case, there was not enough clarity to hear the action of the wah when it was in front of the fuzz face. The 47k forms a voltage divider with the low Zin of the fuzz circuit and cuts some of the signal level on the input of the fuzz. This does not cut the overall volume of your guitar. Instead, it acts like the guitar volume when it is turned down a little when it is plugged directly into the fuzz, emphasizing treble and adding some clarity back into the signal. Now, instead of rolling off the treble and losing the "wah" sound, you get definition back and can clearly hear the filtering action of the wah.

Give it a try before you toss out your GCB-95 board. It's a simple enough mod. 

[T1bbles]

Nice one mate, thanks for that! Very well explained too.

I'll get right on to that now,

Thanks a bunch

[DougH]

No problem. One more thing I forgot to mention is if you do get switch pops, you should be able to install a 1M pull-down between the buffer output coupling cap and the 47k.

[T1bbles]

Calling off modifying my GCB-95 because as of today I'm replacing it with a proximity controlled induclorless wah!

The parts arrived this lunch time so I spent the rest of the day putting it together. I'm very pleased with it, and it works beautifully BEFORE my fuzz factory

Here are some pics of it,



I'm well proud of it; smartest looking pedal I've ever put together

I used a PCB layout someone sent me after I saw them using their DIY proximity wah on youtube. According to the layout it's called the 'Ghost Wah'.

[Paul Marossy]

Wow, that's very cool. 

[petemoore]

  The CB's are a decent wah platform, without buffer there can be signal loading.
  I don't know exactly what anyone elses has in it other than the 'wah' board with inductor, FF is cool, never had one, tried one, like to try one at home.
  To find out if there's room for improvement by reducing signal loading, put your [anyting like Dan, Ibanez, Boss] buffered effect in bypass mode, placed where suspected loading is causing signal degradation, the factory-effect buffer may improve the tone and impedance match.
  a follower can change the tone of...anything, so placing it should be on trial basis [some like the FF with a buffer-toned input], they can drive low impedance inputs and long cables better...trade offs.

[FunkyGibbon]

Hi Martin,

Any chance of passing the schematic/ layout on?

Thanks,

Christopher

[soggybag]

Could part of the problem be related to 5K vol pot on the output of the Fuzz Factory? This always seemed a little odd to me.

Your Wah looks great. If you could post a link to the schematic and or layout I would be interested in seeing it.

What did you use to support the copper board underneath?