uhhh yeah, another muff a comin' ( video samples please check it out )

[joegagan]

 i have owned my share of big muffers, i like them ok, but i had a fantasy muff sound in my head. heavy , very fat and heavy but clear at the same time.

i never modded or built a muff in all my years, but i called up my buddy zac (zzagar, new member here) to propose we do some 'sperimentin.

zac did not disappoint. he met me with a full stock of parts, a paper copy of every muff variant known to man, and a great boxcar workshop we got to work.

as i viewed the schematic, i systematically  (mentally) removed a bunch of parts i did not want to have in there. zac tried to convince me i should build a more stock config and mod from there. i had a different plan. i could also tell he was very skeptical that the thing would work since it was missing some things.

we fired it up, into a solid state ampeg practice amp, it worked immediately, and roared like a beast. success! zac smiled as he had one of those experiences where you just don't want to stop playing the guitar. it is obviously a muff, but stronger, clearer and fatter, with harmonics and sustain that blew us away.

we documented the beast on my little fuji cam. not sure whether to call it cherri pi, wide open muff, very eager beaver, or some other name.

( thanks to john lyons, great input, we didn't get time to try any of your ideas yet, but soon)

please tell us what you think of the videos. should we post the schematic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7uzJYXA1iE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXXebMYdho

[joegagan]

one more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bAIBjd6crc

[glops]

That thing sounds AWESOME!  Schematic, pretty please!

Really, it sounds beautiful...

[joegagan]

warning- this is not a refined circuit. it was just a first pass. build it at your own peril. you have been warned.

[nbabmf]

I see what you did there!  I like it!

[DougH]

Nice...

I've never been much of a muff fan, but that thing sounds pretty cool. I've heard a few variations that sort of hinted at what you came up with, soundwise. It sounded like there was some potential for this circuit, and now it sounds like you really found it and exploited it.

Glad you dropped the silly tone control too.

Edit: Haha! I just noticed you don't even have a "gain" control. I love it!  How does it respond to guitar volume dynamics?

[StereoKills]

Love it! Nice fat, high gain tone. I'm working on my own souped up muff as well, taking the opposite approach though - I'm adding a ton of flexability and options instead of going for the minimalist (albeit roaring!) stance.

[John Lyons]

Sound great Joe/Zac!
Different transistors in decreasing gains.

[joegagan]

thanks guys.

doug, i wondered if you could be shaken from your 'all distortions sound basically alike' stance to appreciate the subtlety of this one. glad you listened to the clip. whenever i would play a big muff, i would imagine it with all the filtering stripped out.

john, are you saying that we should try tailoring the circuit by selecting lower gain trannies as opposed to other gain reduction methods?

[mattpas]

Muff sounds great. I am going to make one up!

[John Lyons]

Joe
I got cut off on my last post as I was out the door.
But that's an idea for sure. There isn't a lot of gain reduction
going on. The 470Ks from B to E and some frequency selective
clipping via the .1 in series with the diodes to a lesser extent.
Using power gain devices may be something to try though.
Although you have done that with this version.
See if you can measure the HFE of the devices you have in there
now for kicks.
The clip sounds pretty fat without the tone network which suprised me
as the tone setup is responsible for that classic mid scoop sound of the BM.
I'm sure it cut a lot better though without that midrange scoop. Chords sound
good and HEAVY in the clip for sure.

[joegagan]

doug, i don't think it cleans up that well with the volume knob, but at least as well as the 'sustain' pot does on a stock muff, probably better. am going to try a more touch reactive input section, still si tho.

if you look closely at my picking hand, you can see my left hand middle finger swollen. i had a nerve and tendon reconnected by surgeons 3 weeks ago, my therapist gave me all kinds of hell for taking my brace off to play my guitar.

[DougH]

thanks guys.

doug, i wondered if you could be shaken from your 'all distortions sound basically alike' stance to appreciate the subtlety of this one. glad you listened to the clip. whenever i would play a big muff, i would imagine it with all the filtering stripped out.

Joe, I actually started wiring this up on the breadboard last night. But I got bored about halfway through and played my guitar instead. Now I remember that part of the reason I haven't done much with the muff is sheer laziness. It's a pretty complex circuit for a fuzz.

I'll get back to it though, and let you know what I think.

[joegagan]

doug, you are funny. i had the same issue, i would look at the schem, see all those parts and blow it off.

[Skreddy]

One knob muff!!  Kudos, Joe!  Great to see you tweaking fuzz circuits again, and best wishes on your finger!

[petemoore]

  Great "film" Joe, love your Tele.
  Very informative, shows "here's what you get when" very well, I like the Ol ampeg too.
  The venue...what a cool venue, all kinds of items to view, very rich texture for the clips !
  Very fuzzy, I'm thinking the E resistors on mine could be 1/2'd or better [parallel a wire across even], it doesn't do any of the super-fat fuzz stuff like that, and, thinkin' I need to open that up a few more notches. Nice circuit, I was ready to try some things anyway with it.
  I use a photo-compressor in front of it, that or a booster, still doesn't get that near that level of severity, the 'middlin' ness of it is tepid, needs a k.i.a.t.pants.

[DougH]

Speaking of the missing gain control- Joe, what I do remember from messing with this circuit once before is I didn't find the gain control too useful. IIRC it was an all or nothing kind of deal. One knob muff that actually has a great fat tone? Yeah, sounds like a great idea.

[joegagan]

hi marc, great to see you here. your echo looks great, is it selling well for you? i remember you telling me about it when it was in the pipeline.

pete, thanks, that video is from zac's shop , he is an ampeg freak. it is an old refrigerator car( boxcar) in a very large storage facility that houses many many railcars rented  out to bands and other people. any given night you hear bands rehearsing.

i agree, it makes for a cool backdrop. zac has it set up like a cool clubhouse. we also had the benefit of western late day sun lighting everything all orange-ish.
also pete, i agree, some experiments to increase gain can be fun with this.

doug ,did you get yours built tonight?

zac, are you reading this? you gonna post anything?

[nocentelli]

Curiously, I've also been working on a stripped down big muff/jumbo tonebender derived fuzz - I've always disliked the tonestack, and it really pushes the gain up and sounds great. I did one version with the buffer, but with a sustain control and a smaller one knob version, but without the buffer. Both layouts are below:

[Gus]

Joe
Take a look at the values I like in a BMP type control.  Use the calculator and make sure to take note of the source and load resistance