What was the out of box gain for the 2 GE's? I have a choice between 50, 65, 96 for Q2 (middle) & Q3 (right). Q1 = 335
It Q2 generally larger or smaller than Q3.

With a bunch of swapping, it seems to sound best with Q2 = 65, Q3 = 96. I can easily hear what sounds best with a standard fuzz, but it is almost impossible to tell since the Fuzz Factory is so hairy...and there are a billion different sounds.


thanx

IIRC, tested values are around 70 for Q2 and 100 for Q3, which seems to be around what you decided on.

Quote from: CynicalMan on September 22, 2010, 08:44:54 PM
IIRC, tested values are around 70 for Q2 and 100 for Q3, which seems to be around what you decided on.

sounds great...thanx much for the info. I guess my ear was better than I thought

my 2000 fuzz factory's hfe numbers were 110 for q2 and 126 for q3, using rg's test method. the leakage was low as i recall.

a friend of mine just built a ff clone using excellent hitachi  GE trannies out of the amp section of a curtis mathis TV, and a low gain SI for q1. best sounding fuzzfact i have ever played, and i've played more than a dozen. sorry, i don't have actual hfe numbers on the trannies.

we had ear tested these same hitachi trannies in an easyface a few months ago, they sounded like at least 130 to my ears ( i can tell by the sound after testing a couple thousand ges)

if you get a chance, try a npn germ in q1 psoition on a fuzzfactory, it is a beautiful thing. and don't forget to put a switch on the .1 cap after Q1, a 2.2uf sounds great in that position!

Joe Gagan is speaking about the Fuzz Factory I built.  This particular pedal I built as a 'Control' so I could demo my modded Fuzz Factories against this.  Joe and I together pulled the Hitachi 2SB77's from the old TV console and I was actually lucky enough to find another GE on a separate board within the console.  I agree with Joe, these GE's are roughly 110 to 130 and the low gain transistor in Q1 i used was a 2n2369 with a HFE of 90-110 if i remember correctly.  Adding a low gain NPN in Q1 allows you to roll off your volume and get a world of new sounds!  Also like Joe said, adding a GE in place of Q1 or a switch to switch between Silicon and GE in Q1 will give you even more versatility...  More mods to come! 

Quote from: joegagan on September 23, 2010, 03:18:05 PM
my 2000 fuzz factory's hfe numbers were 110 for q2 and 126 for q3, using rg's test method. the leakage was low as i recall.

a friend of mine just built a ff clone using excellent hitachi  GE trannies out of the amp section of a curtis mathis TV, and a low gain SI for q1. best sounding fuzzfact i have ever played, and i've played more than a dozen. sorry, i don't have actual hfe numbers on the trannies.

we had ear tested these same hitachi trannies in an easyface a few months ago, they sounded like at least 130 to my ears ( i can tell by the sound after testing a couple thousand ges)

if you get a chance, try a npn germ in q1 psoition on a fuzzfactory, it is a beautiful thing. and don't forget to put a switch on the .1 cap after Q1, a 2.2uf sounds great in that position!

Sounds great...I didn't actually start screwing with s1 yet, but I will definitely try a variety. Thanx for the .1 cap tip. I haven't looked into mods for this yet. I can never decide on what 2 values to switch between when I start altering caps, so I always wind up with a 3 or 4 position rotary switch.

The most difficult part in experimenting with this circuit, since there are so many possible sounds, is that differences in transistors
or caps will probably make certain tones better & others worse. I think it'll be a compromise in the end..

thanx again

Quote from: Zzagar on September 23, 2010, 03:39:49 PM
Joe Gagan is speaking about the Fuzz Factory I built.  This particular pedal I built as a 'Control' so I could demo my modded Fuzz Factories against this.  Joe and I together pulled the Hitachi 2SB77's from the old TV console and I was actually lucky enough to find another GE on a separate board within the console.  I agree with Joe, these GE's are roughly 110 to 130 and the low gain transistor in Q1 i used was a 2n2369 with a HFE of 90-110 if i remember correctly.  Adding a low gain NPN in Q1 allows you to roll off your volume and get a world of new sounds!  Also like Joe said, adding a GE in place of Q1 or a switch to switch between Silicon and GE in Q1 will give you even more versatility...  More mods to come! 

Sounds great. I'm always up for more mods...Do you remember the hfe for the Q1 GE you used ?  ...around the same as the 2369?

thanx again

I never did actually check the gain of QI as a GE NPN.  I am assuming that it is in the same range as the 2N2369. 
I put a 2N2369 and Sanyo 2SB NPN on a switch.  There is no noticeable spike in volume only an increase in gain, which is normal when switching SI to GE.  I was amazed at the fact that the GE would still self oscillate but typically at different settings then the SI.  Last night I did some more mods to my FF.  I originally had a switch to select between the stock .1uf and a new .33 uf.  I replaced the .33 uf with a 10 uf and there is a world of oscillation in the lower frequency range.  This is also a great mod to consider, either a switch or using the Joe Gagan approach, using a pot to sweep in the lower frequency.  Thanks Zac

Quote from: Zzagar on September 24, 2010, 01:10:31 PM
I never did actually check the gain of QI as a GE NPN.  I am assuming that it is in the same range as the 2N2369. 
I put a 2N2369 and Sanyo 2SB NPN on a switch.  There is no noticeable spike in volume only an increase in gain, which is normal when switching SI to GE.  I was amazed at the fact that the GE would still self oscillate but typically at different settings then the SI.  Last night I did some more mods to my FF.  I originally had a switch to select between the stock .1uf and a new .33 uf.  I replaced the .33 uf with a 10 uf and there is a world of oscillation in the lower frequency range.  This is also a great mod to consider, either a switch or using the Joe Gagan approach, using a pot to sweep in the lower frequency.  Thanks Zac

I think since there's so much control via pots, I'll go with that cap mod first since you're having good luck with a bunch of values. I'll use a 3 or 4 way rotary switch with a bunch of diff values (maybe .1 to 10 to start, but I'll definitely try below .1 and above 10)

thanx again

My pleasure, if you are going to go with a rotary I would use .1uf  .33uf  2.2uf  10uf for a 4 position or .1uf  2.2uf  10uf for a 3 position, or something within that range.  I'm also curious about how a 22uf / 47uf or higher would sound in this position but have not done any actual tests.  Just remember to place the positive of the electrolytic towards the collector of Q1 and you should have no problems and will be in a world of oscillation mayham!!! 

Quote from: Zzagar on September 24, 2010, 04:36:13 PM
My pleasure, if you are going to go with a rotary I would use .1uf  .33uf  2.2uf  10uf for a 4 position or .1uf  2.2uf  10uf for a 3 position, or something within that range.  I'm also curious about how a 22uf / 47uf or higher would sound in this position but have not done any actual tests.  Just remember to place the positive of the electrolytic towards the collector of Q1 and you should have no problems and will be in a world of oscillation mayham!!! 

I'll re-hook everything [pots clipped to breadboard] shortly after I finish my modded fuzz-rite & try to report back here with what works best...
thanx for the electrolytic tip...since the original was not  electrolytic, i probably would've just thrown it in without thinking...