MAN! do i need help!!! i think i'm losing it!! mondo issue with my clone theory.

[pinkjimiphoton]

so i built a clone theory on vero....works great, sounds lush and beautiful...one of the nicest pedals i ever built, by far...

but,,,

i can't use the fuggin' thing on my pedalboard!!!

if i turn on my wah or any dirt pedals before it, i get this horrible crackling noise in the background, even when not playing....it's not cyclical or anything...just random cracks and pops.

if i take the clone out of the board, everything sounds great, and completely normal. if i run the clone theory by itself, it sounds great. as soon as i turn on any of my dirt pedals (fuzzface, tonebender, wah, klon(e)) everything gets unusable...even when the clone theory is OFF.

i tried removing the little preamp i built to get the clone up to unity gain...no help.

swapped out my dirt pedals.....no help

i tried different cabling....no help.

i added a 220u/1n4001 to the power supply from the 18v input (i bought an 18 v dunlop brick adaptor off evilbay)....no help.

tried changing the chips out...swapping the first dual opamp for another 4558 took the noise down some when the pedal was on by itself..as soon as ya add any dirt?

the bloody noise is back, again.

i'm gonna try shielded cabling on the input and output jacks to the switch, and from the switch to the board...but i've never had to do that with any other builds i've done. usually, once they're boxed up, all the electrostatic crap goes away.

i am absolutely stumped, can somebody buy me a clue or offer any suggestion as to what the hell is wrong?

here's a link to the pedal i built

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=95183.0

i used cathexis's layout...it truly does sound bloody awesome, and works great...

but i can't use it on my freekin' pedal board with these noise issues...

i can post an audio clip of the noise if you think it may be helpful....

i mean, i looked at this thing for like 10 years before i got the guts to build it, and it's the only chorus i ever liked, so i really appreciate the help!!

namaste

[digi2t]

Yo bro...

if i turn on my wah or any dirt pedals before it

Have you tried running it before these pedals?

Maybe you're overloading the input?

Just guessing.

[Mark Hammer]

Is the 100nf input cap to that first op-amp stage fried or solder-bridged?  Is there any possibility that a DC voltage from other pedals is sneaking through to that first stage?

[pinkjimiphoton]

i will check for dc, but it doesn't seem to make any sense...the pedal, by itself, works fine. the other pedals, without it, work fine, no noise but the usual slight hiss sound...

this is like a nasty crackly popping noise, it doesn't matter if i'm playing or not. as soon as i take the clone out of the equation, the noise stops. it's the damndest thing!!

it sounds like bad old carbon comps in an ancient amp...crackle and pop, no cyclical or anything...completely random. i can see it happening maybe with fuzz on, but wah?

gonna go shield the ins/outs and see if that helps...but i doubt it will matter. do you think maybe it's cuz i'm running the fuzzface on a walwart?

but then...even taking the fuzzface out of the equation, it does the same thing. if i plug ANYthing in front of it it starts happening!! well...any kinda dirt/wah or boost, anyways!!

gonna try putting a small resistance in series with the + of the power supply, see if that helps, too...man, i am stumped, appreciate the help brothers~

[Mark Hammer]

Crackling often can be traced to something involving electrolytic caps.  Remember what the crackling IS; it's the sound of sudden changes in voltage/current.  It's the sound of a lot of electrons moving all at once.  The part I'm not learned enough to deduce is how that could happen when there is something other than a guitar plugged into it, but not when there is only a guitar.

Which is why I asked about stray DC entering.  I honestly don't know why that would do it, but it's the only thing I can think of that would be different between a pedal and a guitar plugged in, with nothing else happening.

[LucifersTrip]

did you actually try to narrow it down by trying the clone theory with each of your pedals one at a time?   (only 2 pedals at a time)

if it actually works with any of your other pedals, then you can try to figure out what's different with that specific one

[pinkjimiphoton]

i've messed around a bit more...added a 100r resistor in series, it made a noticeable...barely, but there...difference.

the klon(e) doesn't affect it at all. no background noise, or at least not enough to notice and complain about. it's definitely has to do with the clock in the thing. if i run the fuzzface (pnp ge), toneblaster(bender,npn si/ge hybrid) or my crybaby into it, even when the chorus is bypassed it's doing it.

without one of those three in front, no noise.

do ya think maybe i should just build a charge pump power supply and run it off the same power the rest of my pedal board runs on? i tried it at 9 and 12 volts, it will pass signal, but no chorusing. it's gotta be something with the clock getting into the power supply somehow, some bizzarre ground loop or something, but i can't seem to figure it out.

i checked the caps, don't seem to be finding any dc leakage. really, really weird.

i mean, i can live without it (sigh), i have now for years, but i really wanna use this thing. i cannot give up my fuzzface and wah tho. no way. that's most of ME there. gonna keep working on it, appreciate the help and input!!!!!!

i will revisit those electros. i tried smacking everything, to see if anything would exacerbate it...no dice.

and when the three pedals i mentioned AREN't plugged in? for all intents, dead silent.

this is a bugger!!!

i did try it by itself and with each pedal individually...it's just those three. but take the freekin' thing out of the line, and it's reasonably quiet again when i'm not playing, even with the fuzzes
on and cranked. it's something with the pedal, it has to be!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

oh          my             god..............

there's a REASON i call 'em stupid pedal tricks. for real. 

found the problem...a free kick in my ass to anybody that wants. ya know what it was?

i re-cabled my board, put my monster straight/angled cable so the angle was coming out of my SHO (last thing in line) and took the other cable that used to go to the amp, a nice planet waves one into the input.

stupid, dumb schmuck me didn't stop to think the cable's shield might only be connected on one end. and it was.

so i had the grounded, shield end of the cable to my guitar....thereby making it the worlds most high gain antennae.
flipped it around so the shield connected to ground, like it should....

noise problem solved. 

my god, i am an idiot. sorry guys!!! thanks for the help....fwiw, the pedal IS a bit quieter now!!!!!!


phew!!!!!!!

[Mark Hammer]

You may be an idiot, but you're an honest one, a diligent one, a generous one, and you're OUR idiot!!   

Happy vibraflanging, bro!

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks mark, lol!!

i try to learn something new each day, ya know? lol

fortunately for me, that's easy.

it's remembering stuff i learn,, now THATs the issue!! lol. 

[petey twofinger]

love the pedal , never heard that one before , wow   . i had a small clone that my boss kid fried with an AC adapter , miss it so much , got it for 15 bucks too .

so sorry about your troubles , after ten years you get the balls , spend the $$$ , its a pedal you had and lost , all this hard work , then the thing geeks ...

i feel terrible for you , but i am laughing right now . i have been down that exact same road before .

great work man , its funny how our brains do not work sometimes .

[pinkjimiphoton]

for real, bro!!! everything but the problem....usually staring ya in the face....is the first thing ya think of. so ya get in there, rip stuff apart, change things, tweak things...and then find the stupid problem ya missed.

it's a classic...i'm still chuckling about this...i mean, HELLO???

lol

[petey twofinger]

i should make this thread my homepage ...

seriously .