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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: mortem on August 05, 2013, 11:42:54 PM

Title: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 05, 2013, 11:42:54 PM
this is the first time i make a pedal, i'm trying to do this http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface.php (http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface.php) but once i managed to solder everything i had a few problems, the led exploded and the battery is warm, and it doesn't make any sound when is on, the pots doesn't do anything. I wired all like this

The Switch,
lug 1 is to lug 2 on the volume pot.
lug 2 is to -9vc
lug 3 is to pcb input
lug 4 is to input tip
lug 5 is to pcb ground
lug 6 is to output tip
lug 7 and 9 are wired together

The Pcb
#1 to lug 3 of switch
#2 to fuzz pot lug 2
#3 has 4 grounds wired to lug 5 of switch, lug 1 of volume pot, lug 1 of fuzz pot and output sleeve
#4 is -9v 1 for negative led and another to lug 2 switch
#5 lug 3 volume pot
#6 lug 3 fuzz pot

Input jack

the tip goes to switch lug 6
the ring goes to dc tip
the sleeve goes to output sleeve

Output jack

the tip comes from lug 4 of the switch
the sleeve goes to ground of pcb and input sleeve
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mistahead on August 05, 2013, 11:46:28 PM
OK - step one just go over everything carefully, it sounds like you've got some shorting somewhere in there, something touching metal it ought not to, or solder bridging a couple of traces...

There's a debugging post in here Stickied up top - that would be the next stop.

Fun stuff - explosions just mean it will be more awesome in the end.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on August 06, 2013, 03:12:54 AM
How did you connect the LED? You usually have to add a resistor in series with the LED to limit the current (or is it voltage? damned senility). Check the specs on your LEDs (volts, current) and use Ohm's Law to figure it out, or use one of the LED/resistor calculators available online. Make sure you connect the led right way as well (cathode to negative).

As for the switch. Is it 1,2,3 at one position, 4,5,6 at the second position and 7,8,9 at the third position? If so, the wiring is a mess by the looks of it. If it's 1,4,7 and 2,5,8, and 3,6,9 then at least the bypass should work but position two (2,5,8) looks like you're connecting the + to the - side of the battery. That's why the battery is getting warm and the circuit isn't working.

Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: duck_arse on August 06, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
I'm hopeless at join-the-dots. show us some photos and a circuit diagram.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: midwayfair on August 06, 2013, 01:03:23 PM
Read here and follow the instructions. (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0)

There is specific information everyone needs to debug a circuit. And by following the steps in that post you may find the problem on your own.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 08, 2013, 08:20:17 PM
i did the debug already, i changed the led from position as MaxPower suggested, the battery isn't warm anymore but still not sound coming out, i need help figuring out how to plug volume 1 pot, fuzz 1 pot, output of the pcb to the 3pdt, the grounds and the sleeve of the input, here is the schematic, help please

http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacelayout.png (http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacelayout.png)
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacepnpschematic.gif (http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacepnpschematic.gif)
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on August 09, 2013, 02:50:42 AM
As others have said, it's hard to help you without knowing exactly how you have everything wired up. A picture or a drawing or your built circuit showing all your connections would help a lot.

I hope you ignored my previous comment on the switch wiring. Don't know what the hell I was thinking.

Maybe this will help: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=how+to+wire+3p3t+switch&FORM=HDRSC2&id=617F4EE35E0AF00EDF7FA53B3B959B4922A3AD9A&selectedIndex=6#view=detail&id=617F4EE35E0AF00EDF7F9A3A3655975B9926A3B8&selectedIndex=12
Mind the polarities (most are for +9V and ground, whereas your circuit is -9V and ground).

Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: duck_arse on August 10, 2013, 10:37:48 AM
go here, read all the stuff.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm

now look at the first picture of a pot on that page. from the left hand side of the picture, number the lugs 1, 2, 3. use these numbers with the fuzzcentral circuit numbering, and you should be able to work out yr pots.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 10, 2013, 10:28:39 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s720x720/1146739_614883505199197_522014296_n.jpg)

i did everything, now it makes some kind of sound, but the led isn't working and the battery drains or something in a few seconds
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: smallbearelec on August 11, 2013, 12:02:45 AM
Hi--

Your drawing is very tough to interpret. At a guess, you have made some mistake in going from schematic to hard-wired layout. This article:

https://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BeginnerArticle/BeginnerDos.htm

covers some basics of how to avoid mistakes in picking a first project. You have hit one of the "land mines," and I would suggest backing up and learning to breadboard. If you want to stick with the Fuzz Face, here's a tutorial:

https://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm

Regards
SD
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on August 11, 2013, 02:48:49 AM
Well, the switch looks fine as far as I can tell, but I'm no authority on 3pdt switches....

Make sure the diode is oriented the right way (cathode to ground). Double check the polarized capacitors as well.

Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: deadastronaut on August 11, 2013, 07:19:11 AM
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/faq.php

PNP 3pdt wiring... ;)
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: Focalized on August 11, 2013, 12:48:28 PM
In your drawing the double connection at the switch where the volume 2 connects shouldn't be like that.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 11, 2013, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: Focalized on August 11, 2013, 12:48:28 PM
In your drawing the double connection at the switch where the volume 2 connects shouldn't be like that.
how it should go?

when i test the 9v battery it says 5.55 v and if i plug it in the pedal i can not measure any voltage, only the volume pot works, but in works both in bypass and when it's on the fuzz pot do nothing
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: Focalized on August 11, 2013, 03:38:46 PM
I don't know if its your problem but the lug 2 from the volume just needs to have the one connection to the switch.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 11, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
i removed the wire and also checked the diode and the capacitors, they are oriented well, checked twice the continuity but still don't get power on the pedal with the 9v battery, any idea?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 11, 2013, 09:55:56 PM
i replaced the battery and measured the voltages

1.What does it do, not do, and sound like? works fine on bypass, do a lot of noise when is on, the led is off and fuzz pot do nothing
2.Name of the circuit = Dallas arbiter fuzz face
3.Source of the circuit (URL of schematic or project) = http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface.php
4.Any modifications to the circuit? N
5.Any parts substitutions? 2N4920 transistors, T63XB103KT20 trimpot
6.Positive ground to negative ground conversion? N
Voltage at the circuit board end of the red battery lead = 9.08 V
Voltage at the circuit board end of the black battery lead = 0 V

Q1
C = 9.08
B = 9.0
E = 9.08

Q2
C= 9.08
B= 9.06
E= 9.08

D1
A = 9.08
K = 9.06

also i noticed that the voltage at the input of the pcb varies and one pin of the trimpot don't measure any voltage
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: smallbearelec on August 11, 2013, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: mortem on August 11, 2013, 09:55:56 PM
Q1
C = 9.08
B = 9.0
E = 9.08

Q2
C= 9.08
B= 9.06
E= 9.08

D1
A = 9.08
K = 9.06

Something is wired Very wrong. Please unsolder the components and find a Vetted, Verified Layout for the FF. Follow that religiously, test all the connections for correctness and continuity, and then do straight-through wiring--no stomp switch, no power jack. You need to crawl before you can walk.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on August 12, 2013, 03:09:44 AM
Yeah, something is very wrong. You shouldn't be getting 9V readings on both ends of the diode. If you're measuring from ground, one end of the diode should give 0.0 Volts since it's connected to ground. The same with the emitter of Q1. All the transistor pins shouldn't be at 9V (none should be I would think). It could be one or more bad solder joints. It could be a defective PCB  (one or more traces are bad). Could be other things....

If you have a breadboard or a perfboard I would recommend building the schematic version without the mods, led, or switch. Once you get that working then you can start adding the extras and mods. (pretty much what smallbear recommended)

If this is getting extremely frustrating take a break and take a look at the Tweak-O at smallbear's website: https://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/TweakO/TweakO.htm Very detailed build instructions and I can verify that it works as I've built it. If there are any inconsistencies between the schematic and perfboard layout, go with the schematic.

Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on August 12, 2013, 03:17:02 AM
How do you delete a post?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: duck_arse on August 12, 2013, 10:59:00 AM
^ +1 what smallbear said. your volume pot is wired straight to your output jack, so the bypass won't. a warm and dead battery shows the power wiring is shorting somewhere, too.

^ +1 what I just said!
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 12, 2013, 02:59:28 PM
i unsoldered everything, then i did the breadboard tutorial, measured the voltages and it works, but when i add all the wires it gives me 9v again, please look at my drawing, it's something wrong besides of the volume 2 wiring?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: induction on August 12, 2013, 03:06:55 PM
Your diagram is very difficult to follow, and there may be problems that wouldn't show up in a diagram anyway.

Can you post hi-res closeups of your build, including both sides of the board and all of the wiring?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: GGBB on August 12, 2013, 03:26:45 PM
Quote from: mortem on August 12, 2013, 02:59:28 PM
i unsoldered everything, then i did the breadboard tutorial, measured the voltages and it works, but when i add all the wires it gives me 9v again, please look at my drawing, it's something wrong besides of the volume 2 wiring?

The problem with looking at the drawing is that we don't know what's at the end of each of the wires off of the drawing.  Other than the unnecessary connection between the output jack tip and the switch lug that connects to lug 2 of the volume pot (which has already been mentioned), there appear to be no problems with the drawing.  Either you made a mistake and have not wired it exactly like the drawing, or there is a problem with the circuit, or you have not connected the wires to the circuit properly.  We can't help with any of that unless you post pics.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 12, 2013, 04:22:46 PM
i will upload some pictures, i have a question, if i unplug the wire that goes from the 9v dc adapter to the input jack and i put the battery on the clip, is there going to be voltage through the circuit?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: GGBB on August 12, 2013, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: mortem on August 12, 2013, 04:22:46 PM
i will upload some pictures, i have a question, if i unplug the wire that goes from the 9v dc adapter to the input jack and i put the battery on the clip, is there going to be voltage through the circuit?

No.  From what I can follow in your drawing, the battery -ve is grounded to the DC jack, which is in turn grounded to the input jack ring.  If you remove the ground connection from the DC jack to the input jack ring, the battery -ve is no longer grounded.  And in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, make sure you are using the right terminals on the DC jack for each connection.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 12, 2013, 10:32:42 PM
well, i found some problems with the polarity of the components, can someone give me the correct voltages for measuring the components please?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 13, 2013, 12:40:27 AM
measured voltages again

battery = 9.41v

Q1
C = 8.86v
B = 0.29v
E = 0.67v

Q2
C= 0
B= 0.66
E= 0.66

D1
A (anode, the non-band end) = 9.20
K (cathode, the banded end) = 8.86
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: LucifersTrip on August 13, 2013, 05:00:25 AM
Quote from: mortem on August 12, 2013, 10:32:42 PM
well, i found some problems with the polarity of the components, can someone give me the correct voltages for measuring the components please?

voltages should be negative if using pnp schematic as you linked.
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacepnpschematic.gif

since you used silicon 2N4920, the 470 should probably be 330, but that has nothing to do with your problem.

from ggg:

Q1
Collector
-1.4v
Base
-0.6v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
-4.5v
Base
-1.4v
Emitter
-0.8v
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: GGBB on August 13, 2013, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: LucifersTrip on August 13, 2013, 05:00:25 AM
voltages should be negative if using pnp schematic as you linked.
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacepnpschematic.gif

PNP?!! (missed that  :icon_redface:).  Your battery polarity is reversed.  Also check that your power supply is the correct polarity and that you have wired your DC jack properly.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: duck_arse on August 13, 2013, 10:36:48 AM
I'd be inclined to drop all the dc jack wiring and ring-to-sleeve power wiring. connect a battery clip direct to your circuit board, w/ red to GROUND and black to the junction of the 470R and 33k. then measure yr voltages, with the black lead of your meter connected to ground, and you should get all minus (-0.00V) voltages.

should. don't forget your in and out socket ground connections.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 13, 2013, 04:25:39 PM
now i'm getting this values

Q1
Collector
-0.67v
Base
-0.66v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
-2.04v
Base
-0.66v
Emitter
-1.48v

what do i need to check or change?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: GGBB on August 13, 2013, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: mortem on August 13, 2013, 04:25:39 PM
now i'm getting this values

Q1
Collector
-0.67v
Base
-0.66v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
-2.04v
Base
-0.66v
Emitter
-1.48v

what do i need to check or change?

Better.  Are you getting any sound?  Is the LED okay?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 13, 2013, 04:54:39 PM
Quote from: GGBB on August 13, 2013, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: mortem on August 13, 2013, 04:25:39 PM
now i'm getting this values

Q1
Collector
-0.67v
Base
-0.66v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
-2.04v
Base
-0.66v
Emitter
-1.48v

what do i need to check or change?

Better.  Are you getting any sound?  Is the LED okay?

i only have the pcb components plugged to the battery, should i plug everything else and test it or do i need to change some voltage?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: GGBB on August 13, 2013, 05:24:51 PM
The fuzz pot needs to be connected in order to get the right voltages.  As long as the battery isn't heating up anymore, go ahead and test the whole thing.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 14, 2013, 04:38:12 PM
i have a problem, now when i plug everything, even the bypass is not working, but if i touch only the sleeve of the input with the jack of the guitar it works, also the led does nothing
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 14, 2013, 08:59:35 PM
i checked everything, now it works on bypass and the led is on, but still not getting any sound out of it, everything is plugged right, should i change some resistor or even the transistors?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: GGBB on August 14, 2013, 09:44:27 PM
It is unlikely that any of the resistors are the problem - unless you have used the wrong resistor in the wrong place - but check that none of them look burnt.  Because of the reverse voltage problem, it is possible that one or both of the caps is shot - so I'd start by checking/replacing those.  Make sure you orient them according to the PNP diagram on the Fuzz Central page.  Because you do have voltages that aren't completely out of whack, I would guess that the transistors are okay.  Beyond caps, it might be transistors, but it could also be soldering, connections, etc.  We can only help you there if you post clear close-up pics of both sides of your board and the connections.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on August 29, 2013, 06:50:59 PM
i took a rest of the project but now i'm back, i tested the caps with my multimeter and the method two of this tutorial http://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/06/how-to-check-capacitor-with-digital.html (http://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/06/how-to-check-capacitor-with-digital.html) two of them works but the other marks 0.8, is that the problem?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on September 01, 2013, 02:07:30 AM
the fuzz sounded very bad and i decided to buy new transistors, i bought a couple of 2n2222a but the problem is that i don't know how to make this http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacelayout.png (http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacelayout.png) npn instead of pnp, can someone help me please?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on September 01, 2013, 03:17:00 AM
What do you mean by bad?

Anyway, compare the schematics for the pnp and npn versions (http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface.php). Reverse the battery so that the -9V is connected to ground, reverse the diode, reverse the polarized capacitors, and replace the 470 Ohm resistor with a 330 Ohm resistor. I think those are all the changes you need to make.

Also, make sure you check the pinouts for the transistors (Emitter, base, collector) as they may be different than the transistors you used in the pnp version.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on September 01, 2013, 12:59:43 PM
thank you i changed everything, but the voltages are bad, in the schematich there are a lot of holes for the trimpot, where should the wiper supossed to be wired?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on September 01, 2013, 04:44:25 PM
i'm getting tired of this, i measured the voltages of q1 and q2

Q1
Collector
0.02v
Base
0.58v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
0.02v
Base
0.02v
Emitter
0.58v

???
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on September 02, 2013, 03:16:20 AM
Are you using a regular pot (three leads)? If so the wiper is connected to one of the end leads (of the pot)  and both of those are connected to the collector of the transistor (Q2). The other lead of the pot is connected to the 330 Ohm resistor and .01 uf capacitor.

From a previous post in this topic (by LucifersTrip):
from ggg:

Q1
Collector
-1.4v
Base
-0.6v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
-4.5v
Base
-1.4v
Emitter
-0.8v


Your transistor readings should probably be close to those (except that they should be positive now that you've changed to the npn version). Try adjusting the trim pot (10 kOhm) and see if the voltage reading on the collector of Q2 changes. If it does, try to set it to about 4.5 to 5 Volts.

Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: LucifersTrip on September 02, 2013, 03:33:58 AM
Quote from: mortem on September 01, 2013, 04:44:25 PM
i'm getting tired of this, i measured the voltages of q1 and q2

Q1
Collector
0.02v
Base
0.58v
Emitter
0.0v
Q2
Collector
0.02v
Base
0.02v
Emitter
0.58v

???

I think you're at the point where showing us some clear pics (as mentioned earlier) of what you're doing will help the most.

check out the schematic

(http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacenpnschematic.gif)

you have the voltages of Q2 B & C the same, which means they are shorted (connected)...of course, they shouldn't be
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on September 03, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
thank you so much, is alive, the problem was a bad wiring between the fuzz pot wires, now it works perfectly, i only have a question, it sounds a bit dirty, is because of the transistors or i can adjust that with the trimmer?
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: smallbearelec on September 03, 2013, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: mortem on September 03, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
thank you so much, is alive, the problem was a bad wiring between the fuzz pot wires, now it works perfectly, i only have a question, it sounds a bit dirty, is because of the transistors or i can adjust that with the trimmer?

The 2N2222A is a medium-gain device. It's usually fine for Q2, but a pair will likely sound harsh. I suggest using a lower gain part for Q1 and then tweaking the bias:

https://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: MaxPower on September 04, 2013, 01:57:24 AM
Mess around with the Fuzz pot and see if you find a setting you like. Or follow smallbear's suggestion. Also, did you adjust the 10k pot to set the collector voltage of Q2 to about 4.5-5.0 Volts? The link smallbear posted is a good read.

I've never built or played a fuzz face so I don't know how it sounds. I've built two Tweak-O's (https://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/TweakO/TweakO.htm), one with silicon diodes and one with germanium diodes. I think the germanium version sounds a lot better than the silicon version. If you're up to building yet another fuzz face, try it with germanium transistors.
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: LucifersTrip on September 04, 2013, 02:27:31 AM
Quote from: mortem on September 03, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
thank you so much, is alive, the problem was a bad wiring between the fuzz pot wires, now it works perfectly, i only have a question, it sounds a bit dirty, is because of the transistors or i can adjust that with the trimmer?

Cool...now DEFINITELY make a note of the voltages when it's working. then, you have a reference if you have to troubleshoot again.

Before you worry about it being too dirty, make sure you're at least close to the good voltages posted earlier.

A common method of removing harshness from the si version is to place a small (around 50 - 200 pF) cap across either Q1 or Q2 B and C.
Start with Q1.

pF = picofarad
Title: Re: Help with my fuzz clone
Post by: mortem on September 12, 2013, 03:17:21 PM
i added a cap between Q2 and now sounds great, thank you very much to all  :icon_razz: