Has anyone built the morning glory please.
heres a link to the schemo i've seen
http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JHS-Morning-Glory-Schematic.png
Sounds intresting
I'm building one now - well a Marshall BluesBreaker / King of Tone actually. Circuit board is populated - just needs offboard components and enclosure. The Morning Glory is just a BluesBreaker with a couple of very slight changes and an output JFET buffer. Not sure what the JFET does sound wise. They also use a hi-fi op-amp. Otherwise nearly identical to the BluesBreaker. I like the BB and it's spawn a lot. Favourite (based on audio clips) is the CMAT Mods Butah.
With a 1 meg ohm input resistor I would use a fet input opamp
I would use a silicon NPN transistor stage instead of a JFET
I've built it based on the tagboardeffects vero and absolutely love it. Highly recommend it.
This one Is going on the list.
Gus I find this intresting. Would i have to change much apart from the op amp and input resistor?
I'm certain i can find an NPN transistor buffer to tag in as an output buffer.
Thanks for the replys guys
Quote from: Kipper4 on September 17, 2013, 10:55:38 AM
This one Is going on the list.
Gus I find this intresting. Would i have to change much apart from the op amp and input resistor?
I'm certain i can find an NPN transistor buffer to tag in as an output buffer.
Thanks for the replys guys
I think what Gus is saying is to use a FET input opamp such as the TL072 instead of the LM833N. TL072 is a pretty common choice for BB overdrives - that's what I'll be using (to start with anyway). As far as the output stage goes, I'd leave it out first before trying to change it. It appears to serve no other purpose than to give a bit of a boost for a higher max output level. The stock BB circuit doesn't really need an output buffer. Leave out everything right of C13; change R14 to a 100K pot and move C13 to its wiper - output is the other end of C13; put back 1M R102 at output to ground. You could also increase C13 to 1u film.
Just another note, I found the switch (hi cut, I think??) to be fairly subtle to my ears. It may be worth socketing that cap or playing with it on a breadboard. If I end up rehousing it, I'll probably just choose a setting and hard wire it rather than include the switch.
Brilliant guys thats a big help.
I'll breadboard it.
Another daft question!!!
What is the purpose of the C101 cap straddling the 47k resistor in Vb? best guess; Extra smoothing?
I've never seen this before
And And And
what goes in the hole marked 4 8 left empty between C1 and C2 ? guessing again; a low value cap, some sort of miller cap?
Thanks
Quote from: Kipper4 on September 17, 2013, 03:15:51 PM
Brilliant guys thats a big help.
I'll breadboard it.
Another daft question!!!
What is the purpose of the C101 cap straddling the 47k resistor in Vb? best guess; Extra smoothing?
I've never seen this before
And And And
what goes in the hole marked 4 8 left empty between C1 and C2 ? guessing again; a low value cap, some sort of miller cap?
Thanks
The 4 and 8 refer to the pins on the op-amp: +9V to pin 8 and pin 4 to ground. That cap puzzles me too. The other odd thing is C2 and C9 - both 100n in parallel from V+ to ground. I would guess they are supposed to be different types - one film and one ceramic or MLCC - for EMI/RFI filtering. I understand the ceramic, but don't know why the film was added.
Funny you should mention the EMF. I bread boarded it tonight. Without the power supply stated in the schematic. Instead I used my on breadboard supply. Designed by beavis audio as a quite supply.
I got more whining tone generator sound than I did transparent overdrive. I could hear the overdriven sound underneath it and its sounds good.haha.
The other thing I omitted on the breadboard was the output pot after the 2u2.
A couple of other lazy substitutions too
1uf in place of 2u2
10ks in place of the 12k s used to bias the 2n5457.
I will persist tomorrow night and build the power supply and make some other less lazy changes to see how it goes.
How's the BB/ king of tone build going GGGB?
I hope to drill the enclosure and assemble it tonight - but I'm not in a big rush so it will largely depend on my energy level when I get home from work. I was going to do that last night, but ended up too tired to do anything except veg out. :icon_redface:
(http://file://localhost/C:/Users/Eve/Downloads/JHS%206%20morning%20glory.jpg)
I built this circuit a few months ago, I did the etch but never boxed it.
Did it sound good?
With 1meg ohm input resistance I would use a fet input opamp
I would change the jfet gain stage to a more predictable silicon npn gain stage. You can select the gain you want and the bias and the transistor would not need to be selected.
The stock BB is a nice circuit. IMO it sounds the best driving an amp that has some distortion going on. It gives just a little more EQ and clipped gain
Enclosure drilled - assembly will have to wait - maybe Thursday.
Quote from: Gus on September 17, 2013, 07:03:26 PM
The stock BB is a nice circuit. IMO it sounds the best driving an amp that has some distortion going on. It gives just a little more EQ and clipped gain
+1
It's one of my favorite first gain stages into a slightly dirty amp. I have a couple friends whose morning glory builds stay on nearly all the time. One friend plays a Vox-like amp and the other a Fender PR, which are different animals, and the bluesbreaker/morning glory sounds great with both amps.
Just FYI, hopefully this is okay to mention here - in the next few days I'll be making all of my PCB projects available for sale, one of which is a Bluesbreaker (http://aionelectronics.com/diy-pcb-projects/cerulean-bluesbreaker-overdrive/) with all the pads to add the Morning Glory's gain stage to the end to make an exact clone. It can also be configured as a single-channel King of Tone depending on how you build it. So if anyone's interested, I'll post back when the initial stock is available and ready to be ordered. In the mean time, documentation is available so you can check them all out ahead of time.
Good work thanks for sharing buddy.
I cant make it stop whining
grrrrr.
Maybe i'll just make a perf instead
I did a perf layout
Heres a link to the pdf (file removed and updated see below)
Unverified as yet.
If you find a mistake please let me know
updated Pdf on page two of this post.
Excited to see a perf for this, thanks!
I'm looking it over quick and it's a little tricky without some legend for the standing resistors.
Are the blue/red/black traces all intersecting near the bottom of the board directly in line with lug 2 of the tone? Or are some on one side of the board and others on the other?
the reds blues and blacks near the bottom do not intersect.
the thin blue one is ground, notice to left the green offboard wire.
The black to the left of C3 is Vb.
Zoom in and you will see all standing resistors have black lettering so you know whats what.
Refer back to the schematic in page one of this post to compare I used the same numbers for parts. Unless i've made a gaff.
Theres a slight mistake the junction r9 d3 d5 goes direct to pin 7 not to the switch pad.
Talking of which i neglected to put the switch on the layout the switch pads for the 470p (C10) are situated at L,D and M,H on the perf
oops.
I guess it needs updating already
I hope this help
Rich
heres an update
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ma9n53c5jqdgsr/pjFTeSB8vh/Morning%20Glory%20Perf%20Layout%202.pdf
Quote from: Kipper4 on September 19, 2013, 01:41:53 PM
Zoom in and you will see all standing resistors have black lettering so you know whats what.
Not in the pdf I don't think. I cranked it up to 400% and it didn't make any markings appear on the uprights.
I just updated try this one
Crap, my bad on that one. Apparently it was because I was using Firefox's PDF viewer rather than the full blown Reader.
Flippin' technology!
Does it make sense now.
You could compare it to the schemo if you like.
I'll probably build it before next week and try to verify the layout.
Glad you got it.
Rich
Quote from: Kipper4 on September 17, 2013, 06:32:29 PM
Did it sound good?
Yeh it sounded alright, (http://s23.postimg.org/94gdzu26z/JHS_6_morning_glory.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xkyjub2xj/full/)
image hosting over 2mb (http://postimage.org/) this is the board I etched from irmcdermott over at madbeans, I just never got round to boxing it.
I should get it fired up...its ages since I've heard it, got so many builds to do ::) you know what its like.
Mike
WOW!! that big pic wasn't supposed to be that big :icon_redface: Sorry!! Not very good with technology, I am Jimmy photon look alike (only kiddin) somebody tell me how to send these pics so you just see the link?? Is that right.
So madbeans Ian used to do the morning glory.
I'd be interested in seeing the layout please.
I will look it up for you in the morning...going to ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Mike
Cheers for that
Rich
I've perfed this tonight and if i get time tommorow evening i will do the off board wiring 9Manadatory debug) and testing.
I'll let you know as soon as it's verified guys.
Just an FYI, the Bluesbreaker project is up, and the PCB supports building a Morning Glory:
Cerulean (Bluesbreaker) (http://aionelectronics.com/diy-pcb-projects/cerulean-bluesbreaker-overdrive)
Check out the documentation to see what you can do with it. There are a bunch of other projects available as well (including a few curiosities), and I'm starting things off with a buy-2-get-1 sale. Check the main project listing page for details on that.
I completed my build today and I have to say i'm impressed with the morning glory.
I did another layout and its verified. I have abandoned my first layout posted earlier in the thread until i get time to revisit it.
I did redo a perf layout that works from Ian at madbeans layout.
I will not be posting it here but i will share it if anyone wants to look.
Thanks for the help guys
Quote from: Kipper4 on September 27, 2013, 09:36:57 AM
I completed my build today and I have to say i'm impressed with the morning glory.
I love that bluesbreaker tone.
<unsolicited plug> I grabbed one of Aion's boards so that I can socket it for the different mods he's got in the build doc. Looking forward to playing with this one some more </unsolicited plug>
In case anyone's interested, I modified my BluesBreaker layout for the Morning Glory circuit - 2.2x2.0 will fit 1590B - pots and LED can be board mounted. I changed the power protection - removed the anti-parallel P6KE120 fuse and added a series Schottky diode 1N5817. Let me know if you build it or find any problems.
Layout:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=49736)
PCB Transfer (300DPI):
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=49739)
Nice one Gordon.
Thanks for sharing. What program did you use to make the pcb please.
I use a combination of things. DIYLC to start with, then a Java program I wrote to process the DIYLC layout, then InkScape.
Thats neat buddy. good work. Thanks
Quote from: fendman on September 19, 2013, 05:44:53 PM
this is the board I etched from irmcdermott over at madbeans
Do you have a link to that board? I tried searching and couldn't find it... Cheers!
I used DIYLC and did a perfboard layout from Ian @madbeans etch.
Thanks to both of you for your contributions towards my sucesseful build.
Quote from: GGBB on September 28, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
In case anyone's interested, I modified my BluesBreaker layout for the Morning Glory circuit - 2.2x2.0 will fit 1590B - pots and LED can be board mounted. I changed the power protection - removed the anti-parallel P6KE120 fuse and added a series Schottky diode 1N5817. Let me know if you build it or find any problems.
Layout:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=49736)
Hi.. I've used this etch, populated and soldered it all up, but something has gone awry - with the gain and vol pots at 100% it's still quieter and all rather flubby/fizzy sounding, clearly not what it should sound like!
Only change being a 1M resistor at input instead of the 1.5M, because I didn't have any on hand - I tried a 2.2M and had the same problems, so I ruled that out as the culprit.
Does anyone know what the IC and transistor voltages ought to look like?
Here are my readings (V at PSU jack is 8.24):
LM833:
1) 2.48
2) 2.51
3) 1.33
4) 0
5) 2.26
6) 2.13
7) 2.22
8 ) 7.64
2N5457:
G) 0.18
S) 0.79
D) 0
Thoughts anyone??
I'm not sure this is the only problem, but it's a big one - the layout is wrong. Please accept my sincerest apologies.
I connected R16 (22K) to VB instead of V+. You can fix this by pulling the top leg of R16 (nearest to R14) and pinning it to the cathode of the 1N5817 diode.
I'll fix the layout as soon as I can and go over it completely.
Again - so sorry about this - I am usually quite anal about checking my layouts.
Quote from: GGBB on February 27, 2014, 08:35:32 AM
I'm not sure this is the only problem, but it's a big one - the layout is wrong. Please accept my sincerest apologies.
I connected R16 (22K) to VB instead of V+. You can fix this by pulling the top leg of R16 (nearest to R14) and pinning it to the cathode of the 1N5817 diode.
I'll fix the layout as soon as I can and go over it completely.
Again - so sorry about this - I am usually quite anal about checking my layouts.
Hehe.. no worries - thanks for the easy fix! Sounds great now..
thereal, can you post yr voltages now? I was thinking that resistor wouldn't cause yr problem. the measures around the ic were out.
Quote from: duck_arse on February 27, 2014, 09:16:17 AM
thereal, can you post yr voltages now? I was thinking that resistor wouldn't cause yr problem. the measures around the ic were out.
ah crumbs.. have boxed it up and was a bit delicate - it definitely fixed it, but if you need the readouts I can pull it apart again in a couple of days
Fixed layout is now available:
Layout:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=50586)
PCB Transfer (300DPI):
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=50588)
If anyone finds ANY problems, please let me know right away either via this topic or via PM.
realy need it would be an overstatement, and we can't have that. never mind.
Quote from: duck_arse on February 27, 2014, 10:01:29 AM
realy need it would be an overstatement, and we can't have that. never mind.
Sorry dude.. it found an instant place on my pedalboard for this weekend - stacks really nicely before my Timmy, as an 'always on' pedal.
http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JHS-Morning-Glory-Schematic.png
C101 both connect to the 9V
is right? ???
or this 4.5v?
No - between +9V and VB (same as R1).
Thanks)
I thought the morning glory was a SHO
I'll get my coat
which gives an output buffer to 2N5457
in blues breaker and king (prince) of tone, he is not
Hey.
Today I collected this pedal on the breadboard.
The tone knob works terribly when connected to a separate VR,
(minimal changes in the sound), when connected to the VR, instead of a squeak sound, but it responds to the tone knob.
I solved the problem by connecting the tone knob to the ground instead of the VR.
The question is whether the tone knob really has a small range, who else tried to connect it to the ground?
What are the advantages of providing a connection to the half-board?
Quote from: POTL on February 08, 2017, 05:57:51 PM
which gives an output buffer to 2N5457
in blues breaker and king (prince) of tone, he is not
I think the main purpose of the 2N5457 (aside from makeup gain, which is likely unnecessary) is to re-invert the signal back to being in phase with the input. IC1B is an inverting gain stage.
Quote from: Groovenut on September 04, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: POTL on February 08, 2017, 05:57:51 PM
which gives an output buffer to 2N5457
in blues breaker and king (prince) of tone, he is not
I think the main purpose of the 2N5457 (aside from makeup gain, which is likely unnecessary) is to re-invert the signal back to being in phase with the input. IC1B is an inverting gain stage.
It also buffers the tone stack from the output, which I believe lowers the otherwise high-ish output impedance.
Quote from: GGBB on September 04, 2017, 01:36:26 PM
Quote from: Groovenut on September 04, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: POTL on February 08, 2017, 05:57:51 PM
which gives an output buffer to 2N5457
in blues breaker and king (prince) of tone, he is not
I think the main purpose of the 2N5457 (aside from makeup gain, which is likely unnecessary) is to re-invert the signal back to being in phase with the input. IC1B is an inverting gain stage.
It also buffers the tone stack from the output, which I believe lowers the otherwise high-ish output impedance.
The amplifier can be made more useful by putting a toggle switch between a 12K resistor and a capacitor, in one position we will have a stock version, in the second one we will connect the capacitor directly to the transistor, this will give a noticeable increase in gain and slightly increase the volume.
The buffer after the volume setting a sense is still there.
Concerning my question, the first cascade can really be connected to the ground instead of VR, it makes the sound brighter (besides, you do not need to track, or you can connect components to the fill on the ground).
Look at the charts of Cmatmods Butah and Analogman KOT / POT
The tone adjustment I had to connect to the ground, since when connected to the VR were either oscillations or the adjustment was practically not working
When connected to the ground, it worked perfectly.
Again, inappropriately hold the path, the components can be connected to the fill
If it helps, here's my OD Puttanesca schematic, which is essentially a Morning Glory with madbean's 8-ball mods (or, to put it another way, it is like madbean's 8-ball with the Morning Glory JFET stage). I recall it working just fine on the breadboard. The final build is cursed by bad weather and lack of free time.
(https://s26.postimg.org/40x90eiyt/IMG_20170308_112934.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/40x90eiyt/)
Quote from: EBK on September 04, 2017, 05:37:30 PM
If it helps, here's my OD Puttanesca schematic, which is essentially a Morning Glory with madbean's 8-ball mods (or, to put it another way, it is like madbean's 8-ball with the Morning Glory JFET stage). I recall it working just fine on the breadboard. The final build is cursed by bad weather and lack of free time.
(https://s26.postimg.org/40x90eiyt/IMG_20170308_112934.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/40x90eiyt/)
Thank you
But I've already tried everything I could, switching clipping seems boring to me, for this scheme, a soft clipping with 4 diodes is the best option for sound.
I'm more interested in the theory whether there is a difference where to connect the tone - to the ground or VR. Maybe there is no difference in theory?
Quote from: POTL on September 04, 2017, 05:12:06 PM
The tone adjustment I had to connect to the ground, since when connected to the VR were either oscillations or the adjustment was practically not working
When connected to the ground, it worked perfectly.
With the tone section connected to ground, you will have continuous DC current passing through the tone pot, R13 and R14 to ground. Not only does that drain a battery faster, but it might cause noise when you adjust the pot, and maybe wear out the pot quicker. But it should sound about the same. When connected to Vbias, the DC potential is the same at both the signal and the return, so no DC current flows (theoretically). The oscillations are probably due to layout or build - earlier you stated "The tone knob works terribly when connected to a separate VR" which makes me wonder if you were connecting to a different DC bias point than the one use to bias the op-amp - if so that's probably why you have problems. I've built a nearly stock blues breaker with tone section to Vbias and it works fine.
Okay, I'll try to rebuild the circuit tomorrow.
Once you recommend not using the connection to the ground.
The potentiometer does not make any noise when adjusted (there is no such problem as in Zvex SHO).
Just with most circuits passive tone controls go to ground
What can you say about my idea with a boost?
The fact that the electrolytic capacitor will switch between a resistor and a transistor.
It will not hurt him?
C14 the first position - it is connected to R18, the second position it is directly connected to the source of the transistor bypassing R18
(http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JHS-Morning-Glory-Schematic.png)
Quote from: POTL on September 04, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
Just with most circuits passive tone controls go to ground
Usually tone controls are decoupled from DC, so the signal is biased at 0V, and therefore 0V is the tone control's DC reference. In this circuit the tone section is not decoupled from the DC bias of the op-amp, therefore the DC reference for the tone section is the op-amp's bias point.
Quote from: POTL on September 04, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
What can you say about my idea with a boost?
The fact that the electrolytic capacitor will switch between a resistor and a transistor.
It will not hurt him?
C14 the first position - it is connected to R18, the second position it is directly connected to the source of the transistor bypassing R18
(http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JHS-Morning-Glory-Schematic.png)
Yes - it will add gain and boost - but how does that make it more useful?
Quote from: GGBB on September 04, 2017, 07:50:42 PM
Quote from: POTL on September 04, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
Just with most circuits passive tone controls go to ground
Usually tone controls are decoupled from DC, so the signal is biased at 0V, and therefore 0V is the tone control's DC reference. In this circuit the tone section is not decoupled from the DC bias of the op-amp, therefore the DC reference for the tone section is the op-amp's bias point.
Quote from: POTL on September 04, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
What can you say about my idea with a boost?
The fact that the electrolytic capacitor will switch between a resistor and a transistor.
It will not hurt him?
C14 the first position - it is connected to R18, the second position it is directly connected to the source of the transistor bypassing R18
(http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JHS-Morning-Glory-Schematic.png)
Yes - it will add gain and boost - but how does that make it more useful?
greater flexibility in sound. in my opinion it is more interesting than 3 clipping modes for Analogman Prince Of Tone.
In the connection mode through a resistor we have a classic transparent overdrive
when we connect a capacitor without a resistor, the sound becomes more aggressive, today I tried, I got enough geyna to play music in the spirit of Anthrax
It turns out that there will be no harm to the capacitor, if I put the toggle switch on and then connect it to the resistor then directly to the transistor?
In general, I collected again, the screech problem remained, I again decided to make a second VR and the tone adjustment works fine.
From the idea of a boost with a tumbler and a capacitor, I refused, because of not quite pleasant sound at the high volume of my amplifier.
The other day I will try to collect a real fee and check how it will work.
Most likely the problem is that in the layouts I do not use power filters