After doing a bit of research and finding out that the Tremolo sound at the beginning of the Smiths song "How Soon Is Now" was created by splitting the guitar signal and putting it into two different Twin Reverbs...turning the trem on on each amp but to a different settings I thought I'd try the travel friendly version of that idea by putting two Tremolos into one stomp box and dividing them by a blend....does this seem like a surefire path to a lot of extra noise/headaches? Is there a blender that might be better or should be avoided when trying this?
Just figured I'd ask before etching boards for what very well may be a bad choice (it may be obvious but not to not to me at this point). The Kay Tremolo is my trem of choice for this.... I love that choppy sound!
One of the basic op amp configurations is a summer/mixer (inverting follower). That part is easy enough. Don't know about noise issues though. I would imagine it would be similar to building a stereo circuit.
If you are using a trem circuit with both depth and volume controls for both "sides", you could probably just buffer the guitar input, split the buffered signal to the two duplicate trem circuits, then have the two outputs join back together into another buffer. The two volume controls could then be used to balance the mix.
You might consider adding a series/parallel switch for the two trem circuits: Two trems running out of sync but in series can produce some very interesting pseudo-random repeating patterns.
Also, the "How Soon is Now" sound involves some stereo action in addition to the paralleled tremolo sound: You could add a mono/stereo switch..... :icon_cool:
(http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/kaytrsc_original.gif)
canucker, looking at the schem above, the input buffer is already there. I think you could simply add another 3 transistor stage left of the upper 100k, as they only switch to chop the signal. possibly just add an osc (phase shift or twin-tee) and another 68k to the 2 33k's.
to the breadboard, man!
So it doesn't have a depth?
How soon is now is almost certainly a square LFO. Will the Kay do that for you?
I'm trying to get a stereo trem going myself and my design isn't good enough to share but - if you can get stereo trem up into the ring modulator range? Guitar signal leaping between two amps 50 times per second? I'm shooting for that.
Another cool option would be a phase switch to blend them out of phase so they cancel randomly,that might yield some cool sounds too.
Or an LFO to pan L to R would create some cool swirl even.
Just throwing out a couple ideas that popped into me tiny brain.
Quote from: blackieNYC on March 23, 2014, 01:39:07 AM
How soon is now is almost certainly a square LFO. Will the Kay do that for you?
The Kay seems to be more like a Vox Repeat percussion (according to the text below the schematic), which gives an almost reverse sawtooth oscillation of volume (i.e. very fast attack, slower decay).
The tremolo is on "How Soon is Now?" is created from four Fender Twins running together: I'm not sure how "squarewave" Fender Twin "vibrato" (tremolo) is, I would have thought it was more like a sine/smoothed triangle wave.
Quote from: Johnny MarrI put down the rhythm track on an Epiphone Casino through a Fender Twin Reverb without vibrato (tremolo). Then we played the track back through four old Twins, one on each side. We had to keep all the amps vibrating in time to the track and each other, so we had to keep stopping and starting the track, recording it in 10-second bursts...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Soon_Is_Now%3F
It's also described in the book about the rise and demise of the Smiths, "The Severed Alliance" (the details of the recording process are very similar to that quote), but I can't find my copy at the moment.
Wow-I stand corrected. i covered that song all wrong way back in a bar band. but square lfos are very cool so i will still recommend the amazing boss pn-2. The tremolo depth acts as a panning depth, but if given a stereo source (i think)the audio remains LR separated- the L will never show up in the R. If in mono input mode the panner throws it back and forth between two amps, or it can do regular trem. Square or triangle. Can't find the schematic now but I've seen it somewhere. Quite a build.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGDxSW895c (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGDxSW895c)
But this looks easy. Dead astronaut's stereo panner : http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87409.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87409.0)
I have "done" (on the breadboard, no further) a panning trem with envelope, so the panning speeds or slows as the notes decay. that will mess your mind. needs 2 amps, though.
Lovetone wobulator can nail that tone, there is a verified project out there for it too.sounds wonderful.
Quote from: blackieNYC on March 23, 2014, 09:09:28 AM
the amazing boss pn-2. The tremolo depth acts as a panning depth, but if given a stereo source (i think)the audio remains LR separated- the L will never show up in the R. If in mono input mode the panner throws it back and forth between two amps, or it can do regular trem. Square or triangle. Can't find the schematic now but I've seen it somewhere. Quite a build.
There's a recent thread at the other place witha guy who has loads of old gear and has offered close up pics to trace, and he has the PN-2: I've looked before but never been able to find the schem. Would love to try it out.
Quote from: duck_arse on March 23, 2014, 09:43:12 AM
I have "done" (on the breadboard, no further) a panning trem with envelope, so the panning speeds or slows as the notes decay. that will mess your mind.
Ok, I'd like to try that out too.
Quote from: LaceSensor on March 23, 2014, 03:56:08 PM
Lovetone wobulator can nail that tone, there is a verified project out there for it too.sounds wonderful.
Gah! That's three to try, then.
I think the Wobulator beats out the boss PN-2, so id narrow it down to 2.
Plus, you would always just buy the cheap Behringer PN-2 clone and rehouse it...
4ms Stereo Panneur?
Permanent fixture on my pedalboard. If you want to bend minds with different trems right/left, then it's your ticket.
Bought the kit, and never looked back.
Wow a lot of info to digest, sort through and learn a thing or ten about....I sometimes but probably not often enough apologize for even being on here. I have no formal training in electronics. I just follow patterns quite well. Every time I come up with an idea there is a lot of new learning for me to do...I've never done anything with a blend before or a buffer (unless its already a part of the layout I'm working on and even then I'd probably be unaware of it).
I didn't specifically think this idea would be a great copy of the original. I just think it sounds awesome through a Kay tremolo so I thought I'd see how multiple units would sound blended after I heard that the original was done with more then one (I read 2 fender twins not four but you can find any claims you want on the internet about anything). My band is pretty aggressive so the extreme chop of the Kay sounds perfect...I have a twin in storage even but I'd rather do something that suits my style rather then put a lot of work into cloning the original. So yeah thanks for all of the input...I'll read through them all ASAP and no doubt learn a lot of stuff thats new to me! Thanks again! :icon_smile:
Quote from: duck_arse on March 23, 2014, 09:43:12 AM
I have "done" (on the breadboard, no further) a panning trem with envelope, so the panning speeds or slows as the notes decay. that will mess your mind. needs 2 amps, though.
Yes. Only time I ever plum forgot the words to a song was when I was going into one amp with tremolo to my right, and a slow Leslie to my left. It is near impossible to suppress the reflexive redirection of one's attention in such circumstances. Nice to listen to, but next to impossible to do something that requires your attention, while listening to it.
Quote from: digi2t on March 24, 2014, 06:31:02 AM
4ms Stereo Panneur?
Permanent fixture on my pedalboard. If you want to bend minds with different trems right/left, then it's your ticket.
Bought the kit, and never looked back.
http://commonsound.org/panneur/panneurscheme.gif
I came across the Panneur schematic just last night, and it had me intrigued. I made a simplified Tremulus Lune (Shoot the Moon) recently, and I will probably have a go at a slightly simplified panneur in the near future. But........ how do you bypass it if it has stereo in and outs? The panneur schematic seems to suggest just switching the outputs and leaving the inputs connected to the opamps.
[edit] Having had a think about it, I will probably try this to get mono input, buffered stereo output:
Mono guitar input to direct to (an added) opamp buffer from the input jack, then using a 4PDT with lugs numbered 1-12 (5 switches between 1 or 9):
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12
1 - panneur inputs (tied)
2+3 - panneur left + right out
4 - flashing status led negative
5 - buffer out
6+7 - left+right pedal outs (i.e. to jacks)
8 - ground
9 - to 10+11
12 - pin 1
Do we think this would work ok?