Hey guys,
I've actually not worked with perfboard much before, I generally use PCB's. So anyway, noob questions coming your way. Have a look at this tag board. There is a long link on the far left of the board. How come in the two pictures, this link is in different places?
I don't understand, I thought the top and bottom picture should be the same, and the bottom is just showing only the cuts and links.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ph6MDEOrFIc/UytG7Z4oioI/AAAAAAAAGXE/L2eaRsuM7WI/s1600/001-Acoustic360Fuzz.png (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ph6MDEOrFIc/UytG7Z4oioI/AAAAAAAAGXE/L2eaRsuM7WI/s1600/001-Acoustic360Fuzz.png)
Thanks
Steve.
Also, I'm not guessing I did my cuts all on the wrong side. I did the cuts with the copper side facing me. If it's supposed to be the same as the top pic, I guess I should have been marking my cuts with the copper side down, right?
It looks like that link is in a different place on the second picture. I would go by the first one though you could just switch the link and the 470k resistor columns without a problem. Yes you are supposed to mark the cuts from the non copper side. I did that on my first vero build as well.
Quote from: Luke51411 on October 21, 2014, 10:17:23 AM
It looks like that link is in a different place on the second picture. I would go by the first one though you could just switch the link and the 470k resistor columns without a problem. Yes you are supposed to mark the cuts from the non copper side. I did that on my first vero build as well.
Ah ok. Cool, thanks very much for the help and speedy reply Luke.
Cheers :)
Oh by the way - haven't been able to Google an answer for this one either - what are blue dots at the top left and bottom right corners representing? ?
Probably just a remnant of exporting the file? They don't mean anything as far as building the vero layout is concerned.
Quote from: Luke51411 on October 21, 2014, 10:27:57 AM
Probably just a remnant of exporting the file? They don't mean anything as far as building the vero layout is concerned.
Ah ok - was just checking. Cheers Luke! :)
those particular blue dots mean that the "boards" were selected in the layout program when the image was exported.
and if you are going to use that layout, check your transistor pinouts for the parts you have against the board markings. and then check them again, against the datasheet.
Quote from: duck_arse on October 21, 2014, 10:44:55 AM
those particular blue dots mean that the "boards" were selected in the layout program when the image was exported.
and if you are going to use that layout, check your transistor pinouts for the parts you have against the board markings. and then check them again, against the datasheet.
Will do duck, thans. I'm using the transistors listed in the layout. :) I'll double check their pinouts match up.
The way I do it, put the vero image into Paint, flip it horizontally, and print it.
Cut your vero, and put it in front of you, copper side toward you.
Transfer the cuts from your reversed image, to your vero, with a Sharpie (mark the cut on the copper, mark it off the page, repeat...).
Make your cuts.
I just moved to using transparencies (when I do Vero)...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=108977.msg994948#msg994948
I use a sharpie and jam it into the hole form the top side. Once they are marked I flip it over and hold it at a slight angle facing a light. You can clearly see the marks. Now you just place your cutter tool and give it a twist.
I made a tool like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/01WZIjH.png)
This is what it looks like after a few twist back and forth.
(http://i.imgur.com/v2WehPK.png)
You can get the beads a a craft store or WalMart. A little glue or epoxy on the drill bit and place your beads. Let it dry and your ready to go.
For clarity's sake, this is not a tagboard layout. It is called vero, veroboard or stripboard.
I use this to locate and mark the cuts then drill through them with a slightly bigger bit. Flip and severe the strip.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_6217_zps890fabf8.jpg)
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_5595_zpscf378e5a.jpg)
Cool - thanks guys. I made a little tool like that a while back too! Sorry - I meant to call it a vero in the title.
So a few other little questions about grounding.
I am boxing it up today. I am using this wiring diagram for my 3pdt. http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/StompboxWiring/ (http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/StompboxWiring/)
- Output sleeve is going to board's ground. I've already used the ground on my board for the input sleeve though. I was wondering, can I use the next hole over?
Also, the layout also directs "Gain 1 and Volume 1 to ground". I am not sure exactly what this means. Where do I put Gain 1 and Volume 1 to exactly? ?
Thanks guys :)
Everything that says ground is connected to everything else that says ground. I would then connect the output sleeve to the input sleeve and input sleeve to ground on the stomp switch or vice versa.
Quote from: Luke51411 on October 22, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
Everything that says ground is connected to everything else that says ground. I would then connect the output sleeve to the input sleeve and input sleeve to ground on the stomp switch or vice versa.
Going by the wiring diagram I linked to which I am using, I presume ground on the Switch is the left row, middle lug?
So I could connect Gain1 and Volume 1 together - then connect them to this lug?
Then connect my Output Sleeve to my Input sleeve which is already going to this ground lug?
Confussing lol. I think I got that right?
Yes the left middle lug on the stomp is going to ground. You could connect gain and volume 1 to that lug but you also have to run ground to there as well. I would probably try to just connect that lug to ground via the input or output sleeve as there is more room for more connections typically on a jack solder lug. Personally I try to connect pot lugs that go to ground to the ground row on the vero but that's just my preference.
Quote from: Luke51411 on October 22, 2014, 01:22:23 PM
Yes the left middle lug on the stomp is going to ground. You could connect gain and volume 1 to that lug but you also have to run ground to there as well. I would probably try to just connect that lug to ground via the input or output sleeve as there is more room for more connections typically on a jack solder lug. Personally I try to connect pot lugs that go to ground to the ground row on the vero but that's just my preference.
Cool - cheers Luke!
My final N00balicious question of the night (hopefully), is about where it says Volume 2 to Output. Can someone tell me more clearly what this means? If it is to the Output jack - which jack lug? Tip or Sleeve?
ERM.... YIIIIKES!
Ok. So I have it all wired up.
I turned it on with the back plate still off.
LED went on, but thats not the problem. The back of the Gain pot LIT UP LIKE A LIGHTBULB! Smoke started pouring out of it.
Any idea with the crap I did majorly wrong here?!
Wiring of Gain pot is going as so:
Lug 1 to Volume Lug 1. Volume Lug 1 to Output Sleeve. Output Sleeve to Switch Ground Lug.
Gain Lug 3 to Attack Lug 2 as directed.
I am presuming as I look at the back of a pot, they are numbered 3 - 2 -1 from left to right.
I'm sure that's that pot fried. Any chance I messed up any components on my circuit too? I was extremely meticulous when I made the board, so I am pretty certain that part is fine. I am much more unsure about my off board wiring so it much be that.
The only parts I haven't done are as follows: The wiring diagram I am following shows the bottom right switch lug going to the boards output. My vero board layout doesn't show an output, so I don't know what to do there? It also states I need to put volume lug 2 to Output. Where does that mean?
Here is a picture of the now smouldering mess I am working on. Yes, it looks very messy, so this probably doesn't help at all. Sorry.
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt52/steveyraff/20141022_185427_zpsc387f349.jpg)
Sorry - just thinking, could it be that socketed resistor on the top column by any chance? It seemed to sit in those sockets quite loosely.
Well, I took away the bridge between Gain 1 and Volume 1 and connected them separately to the Output Sleeve. Then I put a wire from the switches bottom right lug (labled on my diagram as Output) and when I put it to the input ring I got signal for some reason? Well, at least its not smoking now. I get signal but its not fuzz... more like an extremely weak mild fizzle. Maybe because I burnt out the Gain pot that time, no idea!?
I would check the cut on the third row 3 holes from the right edge, the one that is by the collector of the second 2n3391. You have 9V at the collector, my guess is that the cut isn't cleanly through or there is a little sliver making a short or possibly a solder bridge there.
Quote from: Luke51411 on October 22, 2014, 03:56:18 PM
I would check the cut on the third row 3 holes from the right edge, the one that is by the collector of the second 2n3391. You have 9V at the collector, my guess is that the cut isn't cleanly through or there is a little sliver making a short or possibly a solder bridge there.
I have no idea how you knew that, but to my amazement, that cut had been accidentally bridged with solder. Ugh.
I'm so frustrated with this built now. Breaking that cut didn't actually make much difference. I am just getting the same mild fizzle. Also, none of the pots seem to have any effect at all.
Things I am still unsure about. On my wiring diagram ground goes from bottom right switch lug, to ground on Output on the board. My layout doesnt have output - the only place I can get signal through is by going from this switch lug to the Input TIP lug for some reason!?
It also says Volume 2 to Output. I don't know where this "Output" is?
Is it possible that even when I wire this all up correctly, it will still not work now if I have damaged the Gain pot which was smoking and lighting up?
You will probably need to replace your gain pot. Volume 2 should go to the bottom right lug of the stomp switch on the diagram you provided. A good practice (Which I've gotten away from) with veros especially is to check continuity on cuts and between tracks with a multimeter before firing up a circuit.
I would recommend building some sort of test rig for future boards that will allow you to test the base circuit before doing the offboard wiring which eliminates a few possible mistakes. It doesn't have to be complicated, all mine consists of is an enclosure of some sort, can be anything really, cookie tin, hammond enclosure, electrical box etc. Mount 2 jacks in it, connect sleeves together with a wire coming off one of the sleeves for ground and one wire coming off each tip for input and output (I use solid core wire to plug into a breadboard but you could use any wire and use alligator clips) Then you just connect the board input to the the wire coming off the jack you are using as input do the same with the outputs and connect ground to board ground and battery negative then connect battery + to board 9V connection. This probably wouldn't spare you frying the pot in this instance but it can eliminate a multitude of possible errors in wiring and boxing the circuit. Then when you box if it doesn't work, you at least know you have a working circuit and the error is probably somewhere in the wiring. But enough unsolicited advice...
Quote from: steveyraff on October 22, 2014, 04:18:14 PM
I have no idea how you knew that, but to my amazement, that cut had been accidentally bridged with solder. Ugh.
I'm not good with the math or science end of things but as far as I know for stompbox purposes the only thing that will burn a component up like that is shorting full 9v supply to ground (I could be wrong on this) but going from that assumption, my line of thought was to look for a place 9v could be shorted somewhere that would involve the pot. Now, looking at the layout I see that the row 9v is going to has a link up to the same row lug 2 of the pot is on separated only by the cut. That is how I got to that cut possibly being bad.
Quote from: Luke51411 on October 22, 2014, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: steveyraff on October 22, 2014, 04:18:14 PM
I have no idea how you knew that, but to my amazement, that cut had been accidentally bridged with solder. Ugh.
I'm not good with the math or science end of things but as far as I know for stompbox purposes the only thing that will burn a component up like that is shorting full 9v supply to ground (I could be wrong on this) but going from that assumption, my line of thought was to look for a place 9v could be shorted somewhere that would involve the pot. Now, looking at the layout I see that the row 9v is going to has a link up to the same row lug 2 of the pot is on separated only by the cut. That is how I got to that cut possibly being bad.
Still, great foresight to see that so quickly. I am still getting used to all of this. I am really determined to make this work, but its just really frustrating me. It's 10pm here so I've called it quits and poured a beer instead. I can't really continue until I wait for another Gain pot to arrive now anyway. It's ordered. *SIGH*.
Thanks so much though Luke - you've been tremendously patient and helpful with all my queries. Really appreciated it.
Stick with it. These are the learning pains we all go through. You will have failures and successes. You learn more from the failures. When you finally get this working you will have a better understanding of what is happening.
I think this is working now.
... I think. I have a wire that seems not needed anymore, and its confusing me lol
I have put Volume 2 to the bottom right pole of the 3PDT as someone here told me to do. However, the wiring guide I followed said a wire should go from that bottom right pole to the output. If I put a wire from there and touch any of the output jack lugs, it cuts sound off completely. Without it, it seems to work fine. Maybe its because Volume 3 is going to output anyway?
No idea. I presume its working, it sounds a little weird to me, but I think it is supposed to. Very buzzcutter, razor fuzz and thin. Turning the attack up full seems to beef it out again but then the fuzz sounds less obvious. Probably just how it is.
The middle lug of the volume pot is the output of the board.
Ah gotcha - so when the bottom right lug is supposed to be attached to the output, it actually already is by being attached to the volume 2 lug. I see.
Steep learning curve but it was a good exercise in off board wiring. I really want to fully understand it so that future builds becoming easier. Many thanks to you and everyone else for the help along the way.
Cheers.
No problem! You'll get it down. There are many ways to wire a stomp switch the best thing to do is pick one and stick to it, after a while you will be able to wire it up without looking at the layout.
Hey guys,
Another question (trying to keep them all together on this thread).
I am doing a little vero board AMZ booster. It calls for a 100uF cap, a 3u3f, which I have. But it does not say which way around the positive and negative legs go. Can someone tell me how I work out the orientation of this?
Many thanks!
(See layout here: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/amz-mini-booster.html (http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/amz-mini-booster.html) )
The shaded side of the 100uF is the negative side. The 3.3uF is non-polarized according to the schematic.
Quote from: peterg on January 07, 2015, 01:52:57 PM
The shaded side of the 100uF is the negative side. The 3.3uF is non-polarized according to the schematic.
Sorry - I should have been more clear.
I know how to tell the polarity of polarised caps. I only have polarised caps and it seems this schem calls for non polarised. Can i still used polarised and if so, how will I know which way to orientate them? I have just sockets both and I'll built it and then I guess just try various ways ? ?
The second last paragraph should help:
http://www.muzique.com/tech/mini-a.htm (http://www.muzique.com/tech/mini-a.htm)
Quote from: peterg on January 07, 2015, 03:10:14 PM
The second last paragraph should help:
http://www.muzique.com/tech/mini-a.htm (http://www.muzique.com/tech/mini-a.htm)
Brilliant, thanks!
Still no idea what to do about this polarised 100uf cap though ???
Ahh the magic smoke.....fried pot.
Yep 3 2 1 looking at the back of the pots...
tips.
use different colour wiring..
test the effect outside of the box, without the footswitch
this makes sure it works and limits debugging to just the board.
make a cardboard template of how your pedal will be...then cut wires to length, solder...
Makes builds a lot easier to assemble, and neater wiring too..
Quote from: steveyraff on January 07, 2015, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: peterg on January 07, 2015, 03:10:14 PM
The second last paragraph should help:
http://www.muzique.com/tech/mini-a.htm (http://www.muzique.com/tech/mini-a.htm)
Brilliant, thanks!
Still no idea what to do about this polarised 100uf cap though ???
The vero layout you are working from shows the 100uF cap's negative side shaded. The The positive leg goes to +9v via the 100 ohm resistor and the and negative leg goes to ground. It is C6 on the schematic. Have a look at Power Supply Filtering section for an explanation of what this cap does:
http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/Caps/ (http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/Caps/)