Any recommendations for software that converts standard electrical schematics to a PCB layout?
Welcome to the forum!
Check out the search function above - you will find this conversion has happened many times. I will suggest EAGLE, but others will not!
welcome. eagle.
Quote from: Mattyboy on June 23, 2015, 09:24:13 AM
...software that converts standard electrical schematics to a PCB layout?
I suspect that you may be asking for a package that will take a schematic for a pedal and give you a board layout. As other people here have noted, the auto-routing functions of packages like EAGLE (which are the closest thing to what I think you want) don't work well in analog applications. Laying out a board for an effect requires taking into account the positions of numerous off-board components that dictate where the PCB terminations need to be. Software can't do this; human input is very much necessary. It's a learned art and craft, as described in this book:
http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/pcb-layout-for-musical-effects/
Regards
SD
So far...the "Es" have it.
#1 Eagle
Not a very intuitive program. Definitely a learning curve but...great tool once you get the hang of it.
thanks. ill check out Eagle. I am aware of human input being necessary. I'm a mechanic and have had several classes on electrical schematics. just looking for a time saver
Since nobody has suggested anything other than Eagle, I'll put in my plug for KiCad:
http://www.kicad-pcb.org (http://www.kicad-pcb.org)
It's free and open source without any artificial limitations like board size, layers, etc. It also has a bit of a learning curve (like any EDA software) but I found it to be very intuitive and easy to make custom footprints, while it also contains a good library of components us DIY'ers commonly use. A lot of good help info on their site and online.
If you decide to use Eagle, read the WHOLE yada yada and don't click OK unless you really actually agree to the terms. I think you're pretty clear if you're using it purely for DIY. If you ever want to use it for ANY commercial purpose (other than passing money under the table with a friend) you're going to have to buy a license to stay in the clear legally.
Something like KiCad removes all doubt, and you're free to make stuff to sell if you get to a place where you're confident doing that kind of thing to make some spare bucks on the side.
Just my $0.02
Here's a bid for Diptrace http://diptrace.com/download-diptrace/ (http://diptrace.com/download-diptrace/) - the freeware version has limits, though (2 layers, 300 pins), but it's enough for me. I haven't used Eagle so I don't know how the learning curves compare.
that sounds more my speed considering I do, in fact, want to market my pedals when I get to that point
Quote from: Mattyboy on June 23, 2015, 12:41:20 PM
thanks. ill check out Eagle. I am aware of human input being necessary. I'm a mechanic and have had several classes on electrical schematics. just looking for a time saver
There are some pedal related PCB videos running around here somewhere which I highly recommend. Secondly, the auto router which can be very dumb, can save some time depending. I hand trace most of my stuff but from time to time I will run the auto tracer, then remove all the silly stuff and do the rest by hand aka time saver. My suggestion is to layout the parts very close to the schematic as a starting point which typically vastly reduces the routing complexity (parts who need each other are close to each other). That get's ruined some if using lots of reference points in the schematic but nevertheless, the learning curve for what most of us need to do in Eagle is pretty small and usually 10 videos and a day or two of determination from being a reality. Was for me anyway.
i always liked circuitmaker 2000 and traxmaker
there was a free version (limited to parts) on the web a while ago
the domain circuitmaker.com is still live but they seem to be doing a new version for free although i have not tried it
cheers
I use Express PCB. Not sure how it compares to Eagle but it works for me.
Welcome.
I used to play with http://pcb.geda-project.org/ A free software project that you can contribute to. Works in GNU/Linux, Windows and Mac.
Cheers.
P.S.
I forgot, and gschem from: http://www.geda-project.org/
+1 on KiCAD
check this http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=107956.msg982478#msg982478 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=107956.msg982478#msg982478)
an interactive autorouter is way better and useful than usual autorouters...
And it has many useful features not included in Eagle, (pads positioning, Larry? :icon_wink: )
I've used Altium, which is incredibly powerful (and expensive) and about the least intuitive thing in the world. I was a big fan of ExpressPCB as it's remarkably intuitive and powerful enough for any pedal, but it doesn't let you convert to gerber files. Still works if you're planning on toner transfer and etching, but not if you're milling boards or having them milled by a company.
Currently I use DipTrace (mentioned above), and it has all the intuitive-ness (real word?) of ExpressPCB but it's a lot more flexible. It's especially great if you have the DIY libraries available on the MadBean forum.
And welcome, by the way ;D
Robot Room has free software they say will convert ExpressPCB files to gerbers, haven't tried it. Never going to send out to have boards commercially produced so i get along fine with ExpressPCB, super easy to learn, free and many custom component libraries scattered around the net.
http://www.robotroom.com/CopperConnection/Converting-Express-PCB-Files.html
http://www.expresspcb.com/
dave
ed. spelling
kicad
Quote from: davent on June 23, 2015, 07:33:08 PM
Robot Room has free software they say will comvert ExpressPCB files to gerbers, haven't tried it. Never going to send out to have boards commercially produced so i get along fine with ExpressPCB, super easy to learn, free and many custom component libraries scattered around the net.
http://www.robotroom.com/CopperConnection/Converting-Express-PCB-Files.html
http://www.expresspcb.com/
dave
I tried it, but the "free software" is a bit of a trick if I remember right. The software is free but you have to pay to register an account to actually save your gerber files. If I remember right CopperCAM, the program I use to convert gerber files to G-code, can open ExpressPCB files though.
Quote from: tca on June 23, 2015, 05:55:08 PM
Welcome.
I used to play with http://pcb.geda-project.org/ A free software project that you can contribute to. Works in GNU/Linux, Windows and Mac.
Cheers.
P.S.
I forgot, and gschem from: http://www.geda-project.org/
Really excellent software package and I prefer the schematic capture over KiCad schematic capture.
I found the learning curve going from schematic to footprints to PCB is a little steeper because you actually have to know what you're doing -- thus the learning curve.
It's intuitive once you learn the system and the work flow. It just took me longer to make a "first project" with geda than it did with KiCAD. Geda also includes a far more comprehensive design suite (ie simulation and analysis). I'm still not proficient with geda because I keep falling back on KiCad as a crutch :)
I gotta give another vote for diptrace. Seems easier than Eagle to use. You can do 3D images of the finished board, etch it, or export gerbers.
+1 for Diptrace.
You can get a 500 pin/2 layers version for free. Here: http://diptrace.com/buy/non-profit/
Altough I am usually quite adept with computers, I never got used to eagle. Diptrace was my friend right from the start.
Quote from: lars-musik on June 25, 2015, 06:07:01 PM
Altough I am usually quite adept with computers, I never got used to eagle. Diptrace was my friend right from the start.
+1 My sentiments exactly.
DipTrace is awesome. eagle makes me want to stay myself in the eye. All the PCBs I have on www.rullywow.com were designed with DipTrace.
I also have a pedal-specific library for DT in a thread on another forum - it's a great help.
Quote from: rullywowr on August 02, 2015, 04:22:55 PM
I also have a pedal-specific library for DT in a thread on another forum - it's a great help.
Your pedal libraries are the only reason I'm able to do what I do. Thank you for your excellent work good sir.
+1 for diptrace the free version has a 300 hole capacity and two layers not 500 hole.
Another +1 / It's a "no brainer" for Diptrace... and the auto route ain't bad, of course you have to go over it and adjust everything and fix a few things but that's nothing compared to routing the whole thing manually.
Quote from: J0K3RX on August 03, 2015, 10:15:50 PM
the auto route ain't bad, of course you have to go over it and adjust everything and fix a few things but that's nothing compared to routing the whole thing manually.
Good to know, I've never tried the autoroute on Diptrace, I shall have to give it a shot.
But seriously, if you use Diptrace and you don't have rullywow's libraries, you should definitely check them out.
Quote from: Ice-9 on August 03, 2015, 01:16:23 PM
+1 for diptrace the free version has a 300 hole capacity and two layers not 500 hole.
Well, if you mail them and ask nicely you'll get 500 holes. If you don't you are limited to 300. It's called non-profit (provided that you are!) and you'll find all the necessary information here:
http://diptrace.com/buy/non-profit/
EDIT: I just saw that I already posted that link.
Quote from: lars-musik on August 04, 2015, 06:55:13 AM
Quote from: Ice-9 on August 03, 2015, 01:16:23 PM
+1 for diptrace the free version has a 300 hole capacity and two layers not 500 hole.
Well, if you mail them and ask nicely you'll get 500 holes. If you don't you are limited to 300. It's called non-profit (provided that you are!) and you'll find all the necessary information here:
http://diptrace.com/buy/non-profit/
EDIT: I just saw that I already posted that link.
Excellent, that is something new I learned then, I often use the free 300 hole download but had never noticed the free 500 hole version. :) Cheers.
Another DipTrace fan here.
Can somebody point me to rullywow's libraries?
No idea if Ben's linked them on this forum but they are here.
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=20516.msg200659#msg200659
Cool - thanks Ben (and Dave). I think I need to give DipTrace a go.
Quote from: bluebunny on August 05, 2015, 03:03:48 AM
Cool - thanks Ben (and Dave). I think I need to give DipTrace a go.
Absolutely. My pleasure. DT is the bomb. I use it exclusively for all the PCBs on www.rullywow.com
Many years ago when I first heard about auto routing I thought I would draw a schematic and the software will do the layout for me. Well in reality it just won't happen so the sooner you forget about that the better.
QuoteNot a very intuitive program. Definitely a learning curve but...great tool once you get the hang of it.
One very friendly advice to all PCB software beginners from somebody who tried all kind of PCB software: stay away from that piece of s..t at all cost! Just forget it even exists!
Quote from: MetalGuy on August 21, 2015, 04:07:06 PM
One very friendly advice to all PCB software beginners from somebody who tried all kind of PCB software: stay away from that piece of s..t at all cost! Just forget it even exists!
That's a bit of an unfair assessment. Better said horses for courses because I had no problem picking it up nor making the 100 or so PCBs I've designed and etched with it since and it was the first PCB type software I had ever touched. Of course like anything I want to be good at, I took the time to watch the tutorial videos instead of blindly clicking around.
Quote from: karbomusic on August 21, 2015, 05:22:15 PM
Quote from: MetalGuy on August 21, 2015, 04:07:06 PM
One very friendly advice to all PCB software beginners from somebody who tried all kind of PCB software: stay away from that piece of s..t at all cost! Just forget it even exists!
That's a bit of an unfair assessment. Better said horses for courses because I had no problem picking it up nor making the 100 or so PCBs I've designed and etched with it since and it was the first PCB type software I had ever touched. Of course like anything I want to be good at, I took the time to watch the tutorial videos instead of blindly clicking around.
is that: the 100 PCBs you designed, or is it: the 100 PCBs the autorouter designed?
the way I think MetalGuy meant it in his post, gets my applause.
Quote from: snap on August 21, 2015, 05:36:41 PM
the way I think MetalGuy meant it in his post, gets my applause.
Software that just does what you want (or better, what you *meant* to want if you knew what you really wanted :icon_lol: ) is always gratifying.
The problem with getting PCB layouts from a schematic directly, with no other human tinkering, is that just running the traces to connect up everything that ought to be connected is perhaps the most trivial part of a PCB layout effort. Autorouter programs that will do that have existed since the late 70s.
The problem is what you get out when it's done. An autoroute worth waiting for depends on getting a great placement of all the parts so that a trace routing can complete, then on the placement being such that the signals don't do ugly things to each in the analog sense. So each net tends to need some information tagged onto it telling an autorouter which are power supply nets, ground nets, parallel bus nets, high analog impedance, low analog impedance, high/low currents, sharp fast edges or glacially slow audio... it goes on and on.
Good human routers have all this stuff tucked away in the backs of their heads because they've made the mistakes before. So the can place things well, almost by blind intuition, except it isn't blind, by any means.
Enter the auto-placer. Auto-placers take schematics and (very, very explicit!) descriptions of the physical shapes and pinout of the parts needed, and then (sometimes) place all the parts relative to each other so they can be routed.
Great as far as it goes, but how big is the board that results? No big trick to autoroute ten parts on a square meter. Getting it to fit into your box is harder.
Box?? It has to fit in the box? And which box, exactly? How did the autoplacer know what box you wanted? OK, have to tell the autoplacer the box size. Um... and where the controls go. And where the wires and jacks and LEDs and other off-PCB stuff goes to fit in the box... it gets out of hand pretty quickly.
Auto routers and auto placers and 3-d design programs keep getting better. Maybe someday.
By the way, this question comes up about once a year. :)
Quote from: snap on August 21, 2015, 05:36:41 PM
is that: the 100 PCBs you designed, or is it: the 100 PCBs the autorouter designed?
Hand routed and designed by me other than my reference in my previous post - I don't auto route generally for these type projects as there is no way any auto router can know what I actually desire. Eagle wasn't hard to learn - maybe 2 hours of my life watching a tutorial and some hands-on time? Trivial compared to the payoff.
Eagle isn't the only choice, plenty of great choices, but that doesn't make it well you know... It just means it might not be for you :)
QuoteIt just means it might not be for you
Because of the steep learning curve definitely not for everyone especially for beginners.
For simple pedal layouts it's an overkill unless of course you're having fun learning new things and/or accept it as a challenge.
The job can be done with many other much more simple and intuitive software where exporting manufacturing files (if needed) is also available.
One feature that could be useful for DIY-ers is importing a PCB layout picture in the working field and drawing the PCB "on top" of it. It's available in Sprint Layout so you might want to check that one as well.
^You can get freeware that will provide a 'ghosting' capability for use with any software. Have a piece on another computer, can't remember it's name but it worked well when it was needed.
Again Diptrace takes it all. You can easily import pictures into the schematic as well as into the pcb layout part of the software.