Interesting... I need to try this!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/
Thanks Jim
I can't wait to see how it goes when somebody tries it.
If it works I'd be willing to give etching a go if it does.
Rich
Imagine that making my own pcbs. Wow
Interesting that acetone softens toner.
This may be very critical about what toner you try it on. Laser-print toner is usually polystyrene powder, which indeed softens in acetone. Ink-jet "toner" (really ink) may not soften (or might, depending on the binder).
I have had no luck keeping acetone in anything less than metal or glass. HDPE may be less lossy, but I would not trust it for a week.
Note that acetone can be VERY flammable!! It isn't all that easy to ignite (you usually get a too-rich mixture in air; it self-cools ignition sources), but the fumes can creep along the floor and finally reach a happy mix elsewhere (say near your water-heater pilot flame).
DO NOT get acetone and hydrogen peroxide together!! (Some of you use a peroxide-type etchant.) Acetone peroxide is a high explosive so unstable that nobody, not even poor terrorists, wants to mess with it. It will explode by shock, heat, friction, and just sitting there (self decomposition). Of all the dangerous compounds you can mix-up easy, this is one of the worst.
Quote from: PRR on January 05, 2016, 06:14:00 PM
DO NOT get acetone and hydrogen peroxide together!! (Some of you use a peroxide-type etchant.) Acetone peroxide is a high explosive so unstable that nobody, not even poor terrorists, wants to mess with it. It will explode by shock, heat, friction, and just sitting there (self decomposition). Of all the dangerous compounds you can mix-up easy, this is one of the worst.
Note taken on the acetone and hydrogen peroxide deadly combination!!! I actually can't stand the smell of acetone so this may not be a good option for me... I get migraines when I smell the stuff for more than a minute or so. The heat toner process is not really a big problem for me but rather the entire etching process as a whole... It's just a pain in the ass all the way around. The only way that I have found is the electro-etching and suppose if I were to use an electro-etch bath/tank it would be worth while..
Quote
This may be very critical about what toner you try it on.
It is. Though I could see the unknowing DIYer confusing the two, the use of the word 'toner' should imply laser printer. When speaking Inkjets the word ink is the correct term generally speaking anyway.
This looks interesting. I may try this in the future.
I've had pretty good results with the iron-on method using Pulsar Toner Transfer paper. And I just modded a cheap laminator to increase the temp. I'm still experimenting with the laminator to get the best results. One job that the laminator does very well is applying the green TRF foil onto the transferred toner. I found this to be nearly impossible with an iron.
I have a CNC machine so I haven't etched in a while, but I still have some ferric left over and I might try this out.
At the end of the day it doesn't really seem to speed up the process so, I'm not really overly excited about it... :icon_neutral: Might be good for enclosure toner transfer since it doesn't really seem to leave any paper fibers stuck in toner. For those wanting to leave the toner on and put a transparent coating over it rather than etch.
^ yep, cool for clearcoating over etc....good idea.
/\ yep that too
I tried a few times to toner transfer without sucess. So this might be the break through i need to start etching my own pcbs.
I even saved the wifes old clothes iron when i treated her to a new one, for future use. And now its sat with all the other useful tools in my shed. :)
I say its hers and it is. I'm not being sexist thats just the way we roll. I get the trash she gets the iron. Clearly defined rolls.
Keep It Simple. :)
Quote from: PRR on January 05, 2016, 06:14:00 PM
DO NOT get acetone and hydrogen peroxide together!! (Some of you use a peroxide-type etchant.) Acetone peroxide is a high explosive so unstable that nobody, not even poor terrorists, wants to mess with it. It will explode by shock, heat, friction, and just sitting there (self decomposition). Of all the dangerous compounds you can mix-up easy, this is one of the worst.
Wouldn't the acetone evaporate, making this safe to use for peroxide-type etchant? Or would there still be enough left for a dangerous situation to arise?
> Wouldn't the acetone evaporate
Very quickly.
Also Peroxide goes to water pretty fast.
But I'm fretting over somebody with a "slop jar" pouring excess of the two together too quickly, before they break-down.
Peroxide can be poured on weeds. May not even kill them (but best not to peroxide the good plants).
Acetone can be treated much like gasoline/petrol. Keep it in a sealed can. Small amounts, you can pour a few ounces in your car each fill-up. A few liters, many oil-change places will take and put with their 500 gallons of used oil. Most towns have some toxic waste collection process.
Another variation of this transfer method:
http://www.modpurist.ca/2016/01/i-was-recently-in-discussion-with.html
regards, Jack
While it is a relatively trivial matter to distribute the acetone-alcohol mixture evenly over the surface of the board or the piece of photopaper, it is NOT always equally trivial to distribute heat evenly over the entire pattern/board. I don't know about you folks, but I am frequently stumbling across areas that need touching up with a Sharpie or Lumocolor because the heat was not well-distributed there, despite outward appearances.
That aspect (and avoiding my wife's wrath about the iron) makes this alternative method interesting and worth trying out; especially for larger boards with finer traces.
Inexpensive T-Shirt press, best investment I ever made. Built in timer = 90 seconds @ 265 F - perfect every time. I might try the above for an enclosure though; looks interesting. :)
Quote from: Mark Hammer on January 07, 2016, 06:24:52 PM
While it is a relatively trivial matter to distribute the acetone-alcohol mixture evenly over the surface of the board or the piece of photopaper, it is NOT always equally trivial to distribute heat evenly over the entire pattern/board. I don't know about you folks, but I am frequently stumbling across areas that need touching up with a Sharpie or Lumocolor because the heat was not well-distributed there, despite outward appearances.
That aspect (and avoiding my wife's wrath about the iron) makes this alternative method interesting and worth trying out; especially for larger boards with finer traces.
The trick for pcbs is to use a laminator. My costco cheapy works great, pcbs go through fine. I run it through 5-10 times to be sure.
Although this is a bit off-topic, I use a Samsung M2020W for toner transfer and until today have had no problems using Puslar Toner Transfer paper. The toner cartridge was empty so I put in a fresh Samsung cartridge. With the new cartridge, the toner wasn't sticking so well to the Pulsar paper. I found a tip online that helped out. Setting the paper type to "labels" heats up the toner process which led to perfect transfers to the Pulsar paper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3aaJZ9bxw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3aaJZ9bxw)
Quote from: Beo on January 07, 2016, 08:32:43 PM
Quote from: Mark Hammer on January 07, 2016, 06:24:52 PM
While it is a relatively trivial matter to distribute the acetone-alcohol mixture evenly over the surface of the board or the piece of photopaper, it is NOT always equally trivial to distribute heat evenly over the entire pattern/board. I don't know about you folks, but I am frequently stumbling across areas that need touching up with a Sharpie or Lumocolor because the heat was not well-distributed there, despite outward appearances.
That aspect (and avoiding my wife's wrath about the iron) makes this alternative method interesting and worth trying out; especially for larger boards with finer traces.
The trick for pcbs is to use a laminator. My costco cheapy works great, pcbs go through fine. I run it through 5-10 times to be sure.
Yeah.. I use a cheap $30 laminator that I got from walmart, modified it to get a little hotter and it works perfectly and very evenly distributes the heat.. I can etch a batch of boards, ready to drill in about 10 minutes.. but for some reason I just hate doing it anymore... I make single sided etch board designs now mainly just for testing purposes. If I want to make a really good professional build then I design a double layer and send the gerbers to get some nice boards made. Not saying you can't make nice build with the etched stuff, I just prefer the professionally manufactured boards and the fact that they can be done fast and cheap is very apealing to me..
Quote from: J0K3RX on January 08, 2016, 01:27:05 PM
Quote from: Beo on January 07, 2016, 08:32:43 PM
Quote from: Mark Hammer on January 07, 2016, 06:24:52 PM
While it is a relatively trivial matter to distribute the acetone-alcohol mixture evenly over the surface of the board or the piece of photopaper, it is NOT always equally trivial to distribute heat evenly over the entire pattern/board. I don't know about you folks, but I am frequently stumbling across areas that need touching up with a Sharpie or Lumocolor because the heat was not well-distributed there, despite outward appearances.
That aspect (and avoiding my wife's wrath about the iron) makes this alternative method interesting and worth trying out; especially for larger boards with finer traces.
The trick for pcbs is to use a laminator. My costco cheapy works great, pcbs go through fine. I run it through 5-10 times to be sure.
Yeah.. I use a cheap $30 laminator that I got from walmart, modified it to get a little hotter and it works perfectly and very evenly distributes the heat.. I can etch a batch of boards, ready to drill in about 10 minutes.. but for some reason I just hate doing it anymore... I make single sided etch board designs now mainly just for testing purposes. If I want to make a really good professional build then I design a double layer and send the gerbers to get some nice boards made. Not saying you can't make nice build with the etched stuff, I just prefer the professionally manufactured boards and the fact that they can be done fast and cheap is very apealing to me..
I know I must have mentioned this here before, but I did the same exact thing. Bought a cheap Scotch brand laminator from wal-mart, and added something like a 1k resistor in series with the temp sensor. I did that after having watched a youtube video about it.
Quote from: bloxstompboxes on January 08, 2016, 05:01:01 PM
I know I must have mentioned this here before, but I did the same exact thing. Bought a cheap Scotch brand laminator from wal-mart, and added something like a 1k resistor in series with the temp sensor. I did that after having watched a youtube video about it.
blox,
do you have the scotch TL902? If so, did you put the resistor in series with a white wire that goes to a pin connector? That's what I did on mine, but I have to run the boards thru several times to get enough heat/pressure.
Yeah, that's exactly it. If I remember correctly it was a long white wire and you do put the resistor in series. Cut the wire and splice the resistor in there. You will still have to run the board through several times. I usually do 5 or six passes. Works pretty well.
Thanks. I wasn't sure if I had the right wire. Over the holidays, Walmart put it on sale for $15, so I figured it was worth it even if I screwed up.
Somebody tried it out and wrote an instructable: http://www.instructables.com/id/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/?ALLSTEPS