I built a tremolo pedal and ti works well.
Now I would learn to go to the next step.
Two things I want to try is
1. adding a tap tempo
2. adding MIDI to control/sync tempo
option 2 the one I really care especially because when I play music I use a drum machine and i love to stay perfectly syncd
is there any schematic or some lessons on how to add MIDI to a tremolo?
I'm kind of a newbie in this field so I need directions
thanks
Hi tenser,
Some time ago, forumite slacker programmed a microcontroller and I built a box and stuff around it exactly for that purpose. Check out that thread http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=110522.msg1014001;topicseen#msg1014001
Gesendet von meinem GT-I9505G mit Tapatalk
T_H_A_N_K_Y_O_U_!_!_!_
Quote from: lars-musik on October 25, 2016, 01:24:37 AM
Hi tenser,
Some time ago, forumite slacker programmed a microcontroller and I built a box and stuff around it exactly for that purpose. Check out that thread http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=110522.msg1014001;topicseen#msg1014001
Gesendet von meinem GT-I9505G mit Tapatalk
lars-musik,
does the Tremolo have a tap-tempo or an input already?
better question: the device you showed me is just an interface between the drum machine and the tremolo, but I believe the tremolo has to have soem sort of controller for external
did you buil the tremolo youself using a circuit that has the input already?
thanks
Hi tenser75,
the Tremolo is this circuit:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=111220.msg1022061#msg1022061
Basically the Tap Tremolo from electric druids datasheet for the tapflo chip.
The TikTakTap conveys Midi Clock signals to a relay (as in "electrically controlled switch"). On the Tremolo I just paralleld a jack to the two cables that originally connected to the tap switch. That jack in turn connects to the out of the TikTakTap.
ok, so I did study better your schematic and I kinda understand better:
the Midi box convert the MIDI signal to an analog signal
then if you have a tremolo or delay with an input to the tempo you dont need naything else
but, if like in my case, I have built a tremolo from the schematic of a vintage tremolo THEN
I need a "TapTempo" circuit... is that right?
I call "tapTempo" those circuits that transform a tap to a rate value of the tremolo
[MIDIBOX] ---> [TAPTEMPO] --> [ANALOG TREMOLO]
- in your PCB i don't see the output jack.. how did you call it? i don't know all the electronics terminology so pardon my ignorance
- what is GRD?
- why did you use two variable resistor on the LEDs?
sorry for so many questions... but i really love this and i have been looking for it for months!
Hi tenser75,
first of all: please allways post a schematic (if available), then everybody in the forum knows and sees what you are asking about. This is an advice you'll read often here....
I don't know which Tremolo circuit you built, but I hazard a guess, that it won't be possible to convert it to a tap tempo circuit without a huge effort and a profound knowledge of electronics and microcontroller programming skills on your part. The Tremolo needs to be controlled be a device that translates an analog (tap) signal into a LFO speed. In case of the TAPFLO this is achieved by a microcontroller that directly produces the desired waveforms in the correct tempo. This in turn regulates the brightness of the LED part in an optocoupler that acts the central "tremoloing" part of the circuit.
Another approach is to retrofit an effect pedal with a digital speed potentiometer - as it is done by the Taptation chip. A microcontroller translates tap speed into variable resistance and thus replaces the rheostat that usually controls the speed of delays in a pt2399 based circuit. This might even work for a tremolo that sets its speed by a potentiometer. But as far as I experienced, the digi-pots have a large tolerance and it might not turn out precise enough for your needs (problem doubles in delays as the pt2399 is notoriously non-linear in regards to resistance vs. tempo). I at least never could get my tap delay to be accurate enough for a click-sync.
So, the easiest solution might be to built the circuit I posted in one of its various incarnations.
Regarding the layout/schematic:
Quote from: tenser75 on October 25, 2016, 11:12:33 PM
- in your PCB i don't see the output jack..
Where do you miss the output? In the Tremolo it sits close to C7 and C10 and is called "OUT1". In the TikTakTap, there are two tap-outs, situated left and right of the relay (TAP1/TAP1 is the first pair, TAP2/TAP2 the second. These two pairs are shorted in sync with the midi clock).
Quote from: tenser75 on October 25, 2016, 11:12:33 PM
- what is GRD?
GRD is "Ground". Maybe it is wrong and should be labeled GND, but that's the way I do it.
Quote from: tenser75 on October 25, 2016, 11:12:33 PM
- why did you use two variable resistor on the LEDs?
The variable resistors are for various settings in the tremolo. Brightness of the LED in the optocoupler (influencing volume and depth of the effect), brightness of the tempo indicator (somehow influences the tendency to emit clicking noise) and one more for make-up gain (I think).
But there's a HUUUUGE thread regarding that circuit here (I know, no fun at all browsing 49 pages. But it'll probably answer all your questions. Asked and yet unasked):
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=84020.0
Ok let me take a step back, and I will try to be less sloppy. ;)
and probably my question has 2 parts:
1. understanding your TikTakTap, definitely my priority
2. understanding IF maybe connected to a Taptation it could work with analog devices (delays or tremolos)
So let's stay on question 1 for now:
I redesigned your circuit with Fritzing (I know it's kind of a toy but I fast with it, I will learn Kicad I promise)
What I don't understand is how do you connect the output jack: simply where does it goes the ground, where the positive. simple as that.
NOTE: my current is inverted because I user the "center-negative" DC jack
(http://i.imgur.com/9QtAMMT.png)
So can you help me understand
1. Is this correct?
2. where the output jack goes?
Thanks for your time!
Hi tenser75,
Quote from: tenser75 on October 26, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
I redesigned your circuit with Fritzing (I know it's kind of a toy but I fast with it, I will learn Kicad I promise)
You should look at Diptrace. For me it was easy to learn and the free Version is quite powerful.
Quote from: tenser75 on October 26, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
2. understanding IF maybe connected to a Taptation it could work with analog devices (delays or tremolos)
The Taptation works differently. This here is an LFO (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-frequency_oscillation). Look what the inventor of the TAPFLO (electricdruid, also a member here in the forum) said about that topic: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=115970.msg1072208#msg1072208
Quote from: tenser75 on October 26, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
What I don't understand is how do you connect the output jack: simply where does it goes the ground, where the positive. simple as that.
This very much depends on how the tap is received by the target circuit. My tap tremolo needs a normally open switch to be closed momentarily to "listen" to the tap. So I wired the one relay output to "tip" (Tap 1) and "sleeve" ( the other Tap1) for one tap output. You could add a second tap output the same way, just connect another jack's "tip" toTap2 and the "sleeve" to the other Tap2 respectively.
I don't really understand the representation of the Amphenol jacks in the Fritzing schematic. Are those double stereo jacks? Why do they have 6 pins? I took the liberty to cut them down to a normal 3 pin thing. (Easier in Photoshop than in real life with a Dremel, I guess).
It gets a bit complicated if you need something different - like a Boss looper for example. They need a normally closed switch that momentary opens. But as you are going to build your own tap tremolo-whatever you can easily avoid such annoyances. And if you get there, we'll talk again....
I hope this helps!
Yours, Lars
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/lars-musik/9QtAMMT.jpg)
As mentioned, the Druid TapLFO chip uses a short-to-ground to detect the taps. This can be provided by a simple SPST momentary switch (either a button or a footswitch, up to you) but you can also wire up a NPN transistor to switch on and short the input to ground too, and this can be done in parallel with the physical switch. This gives you an input that accepts incoming sync pulses from other equipment. There's an example on this schematic ("External Sync Input"):
http://www.electricdruid.net/images/lfo/TapCircuitV1.gif (http://www.electricdruid.net/images/lfo/TapCircuitV1.gif)
You could combine this with either Lars' code or my own MIDI Clock chip to get midi synchronisation, but you'll need to program a PIC, or find a friend who can (unfortunately I don't sell MIDI Clock chips - there isn't enough demand).
http://electricdruid.net/midi-clock-to-analog-gate-pulses/ (http://electricdruid.net/midi-clock-to-analog-gate-pulses/)
That gives you a very powerful tap-tempo, sync-able LFO. You can then use that part on tremolo circuits, phasers, flangers, chorus, whatever - anything that includes an LFO, which is a lot of modulation effects.
HTH,
Tom
Quote from: lars-musik on October 27, 2016, 04:40:59 AM
I don't really understand the representation of the Amphenol jacks in the Fritzing schematic. Are those double stereo jacks? Why do they have 6 pins? I took the liberty to cut them down to a normal 3 pin thing. (Easier in Photoshop than in real life with a Dremel, I guess).
yes the Fritzing jack has 6 legs because i like this
(https://static.rapidonline.com/catalogueimages/Module/M063502P01WL.jpg)
so you can disregard the "ring", and consider only tip&sleeve
Thanks!!!
Lars,
are you saying you can have TWO outputs to control two devices at the same time? that would be could
so TAP1 and TAP2 are two exits, ok i think i understood now! thanks you very much and I will prototype it soon and I willl update you
thanks!
Lars, E-Druid,
It's very exciting...but I'am having hard time to follow your thoughts because my vocabulary and terminology is very narrow for now so when you mention PIC and stuff i get lost.
in layman terms:
can we say the TikTakTap acts like the Empress MidiBOX?
http://empresseffects.com/collections/products/products/midibox (http://empresseffects.com/collections/products/products/midibox)
actually bad example because that tremolo does too much stuff...
Can we say that if I build this TikTakTap, I connect to my drum machine to the MIDI IN, then output jack will generate a signal that will be "interpreted" by any (?) devices who has an external Tap Tempo input like the Empress Tremolo or similar?
and if not, do you know any device available on the market that can benefit from this tikTak?
I need to understand this passage first before going to the next...
Thanks! (for your patience)
Quote from: tenser75 on October 27, 2016, 03:04:34 PM
It's very exciting...but I'am having hard time to follow your thoughts because my vocabulary and terminology is very narrow for now so when you mention PIC and stuff i get lost.
Unfortunately you won't be able to completely avoid the topic of microcontrollers as they are not like any other integrated circuit applicable as bought. Think of them as tiny computers that need software to do their job (maybe that's not exactly right but as I am not a microcontroller man myself but I always got away with this explanation). This software needs to be transferred to the chip via a device called "programmer". If you do not have such a device or someone who has and knows how to run it, you won't be able to make these circuits work!
Look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcontroller
Quote from: tenser75 on October 27, 2016, 03:04:34 PM
Can we say that if I build this TikTakTap, I connect to my drum machine to the MIDI IN, then output jack will generate a signal that will be "interpreted" by any (?) devices who has an external Tap Tempo input like the Empress Tremolo or similar?
and if not, do you know any device available on the market that can benefit from this tikTak?
You'll have to look at the tap mechanism of the pedal you want to use. I think most external tap in jacks will take the signal the TikTakTap can prodcue (but I might be wrong) I know the above mentioned tap tremolo does and you can connect it to the Taptaion as well. Basically all tap circuits that use a mechanical switch for tap detection are able to benefit from the TikTakTap.
There might be devices on the market that are controlled bei CV (control voltage). Then the circuit Tom linked above would be the right choice.
Quote from: tenser75 on October 27, 2016, 03:04:34 PM
Thanks! (for your patience)
You're welcome!