Doe's anyone know what is the correct ce 1 ensemble crunch schematic by Triungulo Lab? I want to build that pedal in order to get john frusciante tone and maybe I will combine this pedal with CE2 + vibrato mod= new 9v boss ce1 but I'm not shure how its gonna work... I have couple of pics that show the inside of that pedal from Triungulo Lab facebook page i dont know why he use 2 op amp although the ce1 schem show 1 op amp amd he use much more capacitors... I will be very greatful for any help!😊☺
(https://i.postimg.cc/bGmzP3nb/Screenshot-2019-03-29-15-39-10.png) (https://postimg.cc/bGmzP3nb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/t1qX8Lsp/Screenshot-2019-03-29-15-39-29.png) (https://postimg.cc/t1qX8Lsp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LnP6PkdK/Screenshot-2019-03-29-15-51-51.png) (https://postimg.cc/LnP6PkdK)
So I take it this is just a CE-1 'Preamp'? In that case I'd bet that extra chip is a charge pump for a split rail supply.
yes you need to have +/- 13v if you want to stay true to original
Quote from: njkmonty on April 04, 2019, 02:02:26 AM
yes you need to have +/- 13v if you want to stay true to original
I think if the ce1 ensmable crunch is good i will stick to the 9v
someone know if it will work, to do the exact original preamp schematic( with same components values....) with a 9v power supply or that I need to match the components to the 9v? and if so please someone help me build a schematic+ spleat rail supply ...☺ by the way what r those two diodes in the pedal i dont think they related to the spleat rail supply...
Excuse the crappy cut and paste job but this will probably work if you want a 9 volt version. I might give it a try if I get time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DzYm4x0r/CE1pre.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: slacker on April 05, 2019, 01:54:26 PM
Excuse the crappy cut and paste job but this will probably work if you want a 9 volt version. I might give it a try if I get time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DzYm4x0r/CE1pre.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Thanks!!😄😃 but still the ce1 ensmable crunch have two op amps and two diodes and the level pontentiometer need to be 500ak sisnce its mod of the ce1 boss chorus... I want it to sound the same as the ce1 ensmable crunch plus lu didnt change mutch the schematic is that mean that i can low the voltage of the boss ce1 and get it work?
Do you know for sure that both 8pin chips are op-amps?
One of them could be a negative voltage converter so it can run from + and - 9v dual supply from a standard 9v pedal power.
Quote from: anotherjim on April 06, 2019, 04:39:14 PM
Do you know for sure that both 8pin chips are op-amps?
One of them could be a negative voltage converter so it can run from + and - 9v dual supply from a standard 9v pedal power.
Lol I mean to say two IC dont know what tipes... and yes I just need it to be exacly like the ce1 ensmable crunch and the only thing i know about this pedal is that its work with 500k potentiometer and the rest that i know is from the pic😀
Pls Can anyone build me the ce1 ensemble crunch schematic with two ic and the two diodes and 500k pontentiometer Im so desperate 😆😆
Frusciante's "tone" is also:
his guitar, the strings, the pick, his fingers, the amp, the microphone on the recording, the signal processing on the recording, the console, the plug-ins, the mastering, the radio's board or your stereo's amp, etc.
if you're so desperate to make this pedal thinking it will make your guitar sound the same as his, unless you do all of the above, don't bother with exact
Quote from: garcho on April 09, 2019, 05:36:37 AM
Frusciante's "tone" is also:
his guitar, the strings, the pick, his fingers, the amp, the microphone on the recording, the signal processing on the recording, the console, the plug-ins, the mastering, the radio's board or your stereo's amp, etc.
if you're so desperate to make this pedal thinking it will make your guitar sound the same as his, unless you do all of the above, don't bother with exact
😂😂😂 what? do u think I'm a begginer? i know batter then u about john fruscinate tone I'm trying to do this pedal because I can... and it will help me to have batter tone. And I need beter commpressing signel and buffer for my rig. i'm not a freak of tones it just will be batter with that pedal.
Quote from: Amitay3333 on April 09, 2019, 08:01:52 AM
Quote from: garcho on April 09, 2019, 05:36:37 AM
Frusciante's "tone" is also:
his guitar, the strings, the pick, his fingers, the amp, the microphone on the recording, the signal processing on the recording, the console, the plug-ins, the mastering, the radio's board or your stereo's amp, etc.
if you're so desperate to make this pedal thinking it will make your guitar sound the same as his, unless you do all of the above, don't bother with exact
😂😂😂 what? do u think I'm a begginer? i know batter then u about john fruscinate tone I'm trying to do this pedal because I can... and it will help me to have batter tone. And I need beter commpressing signel and buffer for my rig. i'm not a freak of tones it just will be batter with that pedal.
Welllll, this attitude isn't going to get you very far.
If you can do it, then do it.
If you aren't going to provide more information about this pedal then people here are going to make certain informed assumptions about what is going on with the pedal. They aren't going to do all of your research for you.
Others have already mentioned that the original unit runs at +/- 13 Volts. There are two ICs in the pedal that you are trying to emulate, but the original CE-1 Preamp section only has one IC in the preamp. You've also mentioned that the "Crunch Box" runs on 9V. This all makes it fairly safe to assume the first IC in the Crunch Box is something comparable to the original CE-1 Preamp, and the second IC is a MAX1044 or ICL7660, or something similar, that is taking your 9V DC that you plug into the pedal and turning it into something closer to +/- 13V. This arrangement is typically called a "Charge Pump" circuit.
Either way... if you come into this forum ready to learn and asking questions then people will be very helpful and friendly. But if you are just going to demand that others help you, while ignoring any information that has been provided (everything I summarized was already written in this thread by other users), then you aren't going to be successful. Just my 2 cents.
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Quotesomeone know if it will work, to do the exact original preamp schematic( with same components values....) with a 9v power supply or that I need to match the components to the 9v?
Quotewhat? do u think I'm a begginer?
:icon_rolleyes:
relax tough guy, you're going to have to grow a little thicker skin if you're gonna keep using this internet thing.
did you get my point? maybe i was rude, i apologize. try building it, prototype or breadboard or whatever. A/B it with the recording and tweak *by ear*. You will never in a million years get the same tone if you only replicate his gear, the recording process is 50% of "his" tone. Even if all the engineer did is throw a 414 in front of the cab it's still colored and definitely altered in the mastering process. You can compensate for that by starting with something that is basically the same but don't get bogged down in component specifics because you will only waste your time and money. Tweak by ear until it sounds the way you want, this is the only way. And show some respect to the forum, I don't necessarily deserve it, but there are a lot of very knowledgeable, experienced, much nicer people here that do.
There's not enough information in those photos to tell you how to build a copy, you're going to have to do what Garcho suggested and experiment a bit to get what you want.
Here's another crappy schematic showing how to add a charge pump to get +-9 volts. This is probably pretty close to the pedal.
If you want a 500k pot swap the 50k in the schematic for one, don't know why it would have 500k though. The diodes could be in the feedback loop of the opamp, like a tube screamer but that would be a pretty big change compared to the original circuit and almost makes it pointless using a charge pump.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqV1DyRH/CE1pre2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: slacker on April 09, 2019, 01:40:21 PM
There's not enough information in those photos to tell you how to build a copy, you're going to have to do what Garcho suggested and experiment a bit to get what you want.
Here's another crappy schematic showing how to add a charge pump to get +-9 volts. This is probably pretty close to the pedal.
If you want a 500k pot swap the 50k in the schematic for one, don't know why it would have 500k though. The diodes could be in the feedback loop of the opamp, like a tube screamer but that would be a pretty big change compared to the original circuit and almost makes it pointless using a charge pump.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqV1DyRH/CE1pre2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Thnx!😃 sorry for asking but its my last questions. .. I saw two diodes in the end of the original ce1 and next to theme its said peak level maybe its mean something?... and now I realized that I need to get the pedal from 9v to 13v and -13v(to split the voltage) how can I do this? with witch IC?and how can it be done with only 1 IC? thanks u very match for the support😊
Quote from: Amitay3333 on April 09, 2019, 02:28:19 PM
can u explaned to me pls how it can be possible to still have the same components but with 9v and still get same sound?
My last post in the thread addresses this. You plug in 9V, the charge pump turns it into the +/- 13V the components use.
Quote from: tonight, we ride on April 09, 2019, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: Amitay3333 on April 09, 2019, 02:28:19 PM
can u explaned to me pls how it can be possible to still have the same components but with 9v and still get same sound?
My last post in the thread addresses this. You plug in 9V, the charge pump turns it into the +/- 13V the components use.
Oh okk thnxxx💓 can u show me only last ones how can i done it pics of the IC maybe? Thank u very mtch!!😊😊
And if someone knows why next to the diodes said peak level and maybe what they r doing in the ce1 ensemble crunch that would be great!! Thnks for everybody that help😍😍😍 u r great guys!! sorry if I hurt somebody 😊
So far i got two Ic schematic both r charge pumps but one v out is + and one v out is - pls if someone can do charge pump with both i will be grateful and btw in this schem there is two diodes im happyy😊😊😊😊
(https://i.postimg.cc/3kJxhSc2/CAM00433.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kJxhSc2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bt08yg4B/CAM00431.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bt08yg4B)
.
Quote from: Amitay3333 on April 09, 2019, 04:06:24 PM
So far i got two Ic schematic both r charge pumps but one v out is + and one v out is - pls if someone can do charge pump with both i will be grateful and btw in this schem there is two diodes im happyy😊😊😊😊
(https://i.postimg.cc/3kJxhSc2/CAM00433.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kJxhSc2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bt08yg4B/CAM00431.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bt08yg4B)
Can someone help me solve that? its the only thing that I need to build that pedal...
You don't need positive and negative from the charge pump, the positive voltage will be the 9 Volts from the battery or power supply powering the pedal. The charge pump takes that and gives you the negative voltage so you just need the second schematic you posted.
Quote from: slacker on April 12, 2019, 01:28:32 PM
You don't need positive and negative from the charge pump, the positive voltage will be the 9 Volts from the battery or power supply powering the pedal. The charge pump takes that and gives you the negative voltage so you just need the second schematic you posted.
Thanks for the replying but still I cant take the positive from the 9v cus I need it to be 13v not 9 so I need it to get first inside the charge pump and from then i need to split it to negativ and positive 13v and I dont know how to do it...
Quotewhat? do u think I'm a begginer?
Quotethen i need to split it to negativ and positive 13v and I dont know how to do it...
The first schematic you posted is a voltage doubler (less 2 diode drops). You're not a "begginer" so I don't need to tell you this but that will give you more than 13VDC. Did you do the math? Since you're not a beginner, you've surely read the data sheet (https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/ICL7660-MAX1044.pdf), right?
The need for 13/-9 is silly, forget about it, just use +/-9VDC and be done with this quixotic quest. If you think those extra volts will give you magic tone, you are indeed a beginner, which is totally fine! Just take the good advice and help you've been given and run with it.
What he said, you don't need +-13 volts, +-9 is plenty. If you look at demos of the pedal most people are using the low side, which is just an opamp booster, if you run this of +- 9 volts then you'll get about 14 Volts peak to peak of clean boost, that's enough to overdrive the crap out of any amp.
A couple of demos I've seen say the sweet spot on the pedal is with the volume at about 1 o'clock, the opamp has a gain of 48, the pot is log so 1 o'clock is about 20%, so the total gain is about 10, +-9 volts is plenty for that.
This transistor boost in the high side will work fine on 9 volts.
If you do want to try more voltage look at the schematic for the Klon, this has a charge pump that gives about +18 and -9.
Quote from: garcho on April 14, 2019, 03:15:54 AM
Quotewhat? do u think I'm a begginer?
Quotethen i need to split it to negativ and positive 13v and I dont know how to do it...
The first schematic you posted is a voltage doubler (less 2 diode drops). You're not a "begginer" so I don't need to tell you this but that will give you more than 13VDC. Did you do the math? Since you're not a beginner, you've surely read the data sheet (https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/ICL7660-MAX1044.pdf), right?
The need for 13/-9 is silly, forget about it, just use +/-9VDC and be done with this quixotic quest. If you think those extra volts will give you magic tone, you are indeed a beginner, which is totally fine! Just take the good advice and help you've been given and run with it.
I was saying begginer on tone understanding not on electricity... and pls i need help for what i did ask i dont want 9v i need 13v negative and positive... i dont think it so difficolt to solve still thanks for helping...:)
If you really want about +-13 volts, look at figure 22 on page 18 on the datasheet for the LT1054 http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lt1054.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lt1054.pdf) From 9 volts this will give you about +-16 or 17 volts. You could then use LM7812 and LM7912 voltage regulators to drop this to +-12 volts. Getting +-13 is trickier because 13 volts isn't a standard voltage, it's doable but 12 would be close enough.
In my opinion this is a lot of work for no real advantage over just using +- 9 volts, which is almost certainly what the pedal you're trying to copy does.
Quote from: slacker on April 14, 2019, 06:55:25 AM
If you really want +-13 volts, look at figure 22 on page 18 on the datasheet for the LT1054 http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lt1054.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lt1054.pdf) From 9 volts this will give you about +-16 or 17 volts. You could then use voltage regulators to drop this to +-13 volts. In my opinion this is a lot of work for no real advantage over just using +- 9 volts, which is almost certainly what the pedal you're trying to copy does.
Thnx for the reply...😊 but still I know for shure that the pedal is 9v but inside is 13v like the original ce1, the pedal have 2 ic one for the circuit itself and one for the charge pump...I dont think that the pedal do what u said I think its just 9v to 13v and then split into negative and positive u shure that there is no easy other way to do that?
The pics that I send in the begging show's that the pedal have the normal components like the original boss ce1 preamp section, plus 3 caps, 1 resistor(maybe its for mod im not shure) and more one IC, I think that the extra components used for the charge pump and split rail supply... I dont know if there is more extra parts becuse its just a pic... but i belive that the way he used to do that but still i dont know how plss help me solve that☺😊 for shure I know that the pedal is 9v but inside is 13v and it have the exact same schematic like the original ce1!
Sorry from the pictures I can't see any way it is generating positive and negative 13 volts, with just the extra IC, a few caps and maybe 2 diodes I still think it's is just generating -9 volts. How are you sure it is +-13 Volts?
If you want to experiment this might work, if you play about with different colour LEDs or maybe more than one LED in series you can probably get close to 13 volts. Like we've tried to explain to you, the exact voltage isn't that important though.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QWWC1ft/13.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: slacker on April 14, 2019, 08:08:20 AM
Sorry from the pictures I can't see any way it is generating positive and negative 13 volts, with just the extra IC, a few caps and maybe 2 diodes I still think it's is just generating -9 volts. How are you sure it is +-13 Volts?
If you want to experiment this might work, if you play about with different colour LEDs or maybe more than one LED in series you can probably get close to 13 volts. Like we've tried to explain to you, the exact voltage isn't that important though.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QWWC1ft/13.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
First of all thank u for the help.😊 secondly i know because I asked the maker of the pedal and he said that the pedal works exactly like the ce1 original preamp but with modern Ic(I dont know what he mean about modern...) and I asked if the circuit inside is on 13v and he said yes... so I dont understand I can use -9v and 13v i cant unberstand how the pedal works maybe can u look at the pics and gess what the circuit plss?
The circuit I just posted should give you about +13 volts where it says +Vo and -13 volts where it says -Vo. If you combine that with the pre amp circuit from the CE1 then you've got what you want.
Quotecan u look at the pics and gess what the circuit plss?
I think it is what I posted in reply #15.
The original schematic has two diodes just before output,they have nothing to do with voltage. I traced the pedal and the extra IC doubles voltage to 18v but 9v is close enough. Also the pot is stock 50ka not 500k.
This is for u guys... I finished the CE1 ensemble crunch schematic but I have two problems... pls help me solve them. first her is the schematic:
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKg8gZGT/CAM00474.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKg8gZGT)
As u can see I have in the schematic 12 resistor while that in the CE1 crunch there is in the first version pcb- 13 resistor and in the new second pcb- 14 resistors(I think one of them is for the LED but im not sure, this is the first problem.)
So as u can see in here there is the new pcb:
(https://i.postimg.cc/s1TGY13B/Screenshot-2019-05-08-03-06-35.png) (https://postimg.cc/s1TGY13B)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lnq5jTy7/Screenshot-2019-05-08-03-07-48-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/Lnq5jTy7)
I have calculated the resistors and here is the visual resistors values like on the pcb:
(https://i.postimg.cc/K1xXmcgN/CAM00476.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1xXmcgN)
The problem is that I dont have a clue where is the 12k resistor suppose to be and where is the 8.2k but i think the 8.2k is for the LED but why so high resistor value for LED? Im not sure... maybe its a white led that needed high value resistor?
Here is the pictures of the front of the pedal:
https://reverb.com/item/16547295-triungulo-lab-ce-1-ensamble-crunch-guitar-effects-pedal
I cant see what led it uses...
Also another new pcb of the pedal have changed the 8.2k resistor from 8.2k to some vlaue whats indicate its a LED resistor if someone knows witch one then tell me pls, here is the pcb picture:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lq7Ycb0z/39080063-1092738570890833-546635563097128960-o.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lq7Ycb0z)
Pls help me understand where to put the 12k and the 8.2k resistor if it need to be put.
Hi. I know that's a old topic but would anybody help me building only the Ce-1 preamp clone? i want to use it as a overdrive but I didn't find anything with a solution on the internet.. and I'm beginner in pedal building..
This schematic that you guys posted already worked? In 9v? It made any difference in the sound?
Thank you! :)
Have anybody built this pedal? I have read reports of 7660s chips frying in similar applications. What are the alternatives for providing +9/-9V from a +9V or +18 V power supply?
±9VDC from an LT1054. Don't give it 18V.
Hi guys,
I'm also really interested in this. Is there anyone who could make a layout for this pedal ? I can build a pedal from a layout, but I can't read a schematic very well yet to reproduce a layout from it..
Thanks :)
Quote from: jf306 on February 12, 2020, 07:20:44 AM
Hi guys,
I'm also really interested in this. Is there anyone who could make a layout for this pedal ? I can build a pedal from a layout, but I can't read a schematic very well yet to reproduce a layout from it..
Thanks :)
Hii, after a long time I though why should I not give it a try again...
has anyone succeeded? mine has too much gain and its overloud...
The CE-1 uses an obsolete TA7136P Preamplifier IC (https://drive.google.com/file/d/19gwIDSTC4JEjj02Nl68iTGefkPWkBIB4/view) rather than an FET-input opamp like the TL071. The probability of getting the same sound by directly swapping in a FET-input opamp like TL071 is not great.
If you do want to use an opamp instead, check out this thread (https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=119171.20). The Tonepad schematic has some interesting adaptations of a TA7136P-like circuit or you can try dropping in a BJT-input opamp like 741/RC4558 or LM709.
Quote from: Amitay3333 on April 09, 2019, 03:06:55 PM
And if someone knows why next to the diodes said peak level and maybe what they r doing in the ce1 ensemble crunch that would be great!! Thnks for everybody that help😍😍😍 u r great guys!! sorry if I hurt somebody 😊
The "Peak Level" diodes in the original CE-1 are LEDs to show you when the signal starts to clip. This is important since this is an early BBD circuit with no noise gate or compander, so you need a good level to get the best S/N ratio you can. The very first version of this circuit was in the JazzChorus amp, so it had a preamp-boosted level to work with, and that's probably also why there's a deliberate preamp stage on the front of the standalone CE-1 version.
Since the diodes in the Ensemble Crunch look like standard silicon diodes (1N4148/1N914) they're clearly not Peak Level LEDs. The back-to-back arrangement does suggest clipping diodes, but as mentioned above, that makes a fairly big change from the original circuit and the Triungulo Labs webpage does claim "The CE-1 Crunch is the most faithful recreation in the world of the Boss CE-1's PREAMP, featuring the exact same schematic", so that doesn't sound too likely either. The trouble is, the other diodes in the CE-1 circuit all appear in non-Preamp parts of the circuit, so wouldn't be relevant here. I wonder if Triungulo used them in the chargepump circuit somewhere to help get closer to the original +/-13V supply?