Can anyone link or suggest a good layout for a 3-knob (gain/fuzz - tone - volume) 2-transistor (npn or pnp) 3PDT switch layout for a newb?
Please save your "learn schematics" comments. If you don't approve of a beginner using a layout than please no need for negative comments or comments at all. I come in peace. I just want to build some pedals this weekend. Like many of you I'm kind of stuck around the house for most of the day.
Thank you :)
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 21, 2020, 11:30:38 AM
Can anyone link or suggest a good layout for a 3-knob (gain/fuzz - tone - volume) 2-transistor (npn or pnp) 3PDT switch layout for a newb?
Thank you :)
If you're after a stripboard layouts, there are tonnes over at http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com
...along with guides on how to interpret stripboard layouts and wiring up power connections and 3PDT bypass switching.
I still use the modified D*A*M Greasebox '83 I made a few years ago - I've made dozens of fuzzboxes over the years, but this one is still on my board. Please note that the layout shows the pinout for the BC547, i.e. collectors of both transistors are at the bottom. If you use 2N5088/9 or 2N3904 etc, you'll need to flip them 180 degrees.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4Rv8gTB/Greasefuzz-nocentelli.gif)
https://postimg.cc/7bQmMBrx
Awesome man thank you!
Did you type "3 knob fuzz layout" into a search engine?
i can confirm that the DAM grease box is a very nice fuzz, i build mine on my breadboard, and took it to a local jam session for people to try out, its really nice, but it doesn't stand out from the crowd much, as far as fuzz is concerned.
Quote from: Gus on March 21, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
Did you type "3 knob fuzz layout" into a search engine?
What's google?
Jk ;)
I did, but I also wanted to see what was available here.
You can also just take any 2-knob fuzz layout, of which there are thousands, and add Mark Hammers Patented Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (not really patented) between the output of the board and the Volume pot. I would suggest a Jordan Bosstone with red or, even better, bright blue LED's as clipping diodes for this. One of my favorite fuzzes, easy to build, sounds great and there is a perf layout here:
https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html
Cheers,
Andy
p.s. I'm not one to preach but seriously, do yourself a favor try to understand the schematic even while building from the layout. Makes it much, much easier to track down any problems if the thing ends up not working as advertised on the first try. After building a few simple things from layouts and trying to follow how the layout corresponds to the schematic, you will have learned how to read schematics automatically and can start to mod existing circuits and develop your own, which, at least to me, is a lot more fun than just plain building effects that someone else has developed. That being said, starting by building from layouts is absolutely fine.
Quote from: Fancy Lime on March 22, 2020, 04:07:20 AM... I'm not one to preach but seriously, do yourself a favor try to understand the schematic even while building from the layout. Makes it much, much easier to track down any problems if the thing ends up not working as advertised on the first try. After building a few simple things from layouts and trying to follow how the layout corresponds to the schematic, you will have learned how to read schematics automatically and can start to mod existing circuits and develop your own, which, at least to me, is a lot more fun than just plain building effects that someone else has developed. That being said, starting by building from layouts is absolutely fine.
This is how I see it. My first build was a one knob fuzz from a random strip board layout that I made with literally no clue about interpreting audio schematics or the normal conventions of pedal building. By some minor miracle (and because it was so simple), it worked first time. I then proceeded to make a series of more complicated builds that all failed. Without understanding the schematics, I was unable to determine whether the layouts or my builds were at fault, and I had no confidence to effectively troubleshoot them.
After that, I studied the schematics for any build I intended to make and painstakingly checked every connection on the layout against the schematic. This, coupled with breadboarding the schematic to check it would definitely work with the occasional parts substitutions I intended to make meant that I quickly came to understand other issues that can scupper every newby's first few builds (transistor pinouts, when polarity in caps is important, what is essential and what is merely desirable etc).
Quote from: Fancy Lime on March 22, 2020, 04:07:20 AM
You can also just take any 2-knob fuzz layout, of which there are thousands, and add Mark Hammers Patented Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (not really patented) between the output of the board and the Volume pot. I would suggest a Jordan Bosstone with red or, even better, bright blue LED's as clipping diodes for this. One of my favorite fuzzes, easy to build, sounds great and there is a perf layout here:
https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html
Cheers,
Andy
p.s. I'm not one to preach but seriously, do yourself a favor try to understand the schematic even while building from the layout. Makes it much, much easier to track down any problems if the thing ends up not working as advertised on the first try. After building a few simple things from layouts and trying to follow how the layout corresponds to the schematic, you will have learned how to read schematics automatically and can start to mod existing circuits and develop your own, which, at least to me, is a lot more fun than just plain building effects that someone else has developed. That being said, starting by building from layouts is absolutely fine.
I agree and this is my goal, to be able to read schematic and build/mod my own stuff.
Have to start somewhere, just trying to get to know circuits better.
Thanks!
Two more noob questions:
1) If I were to breadboard say the Layout posted above, how do account for the holes represented?
2) Using layout above, If I were to again breadboard, what would I use as output? Would I just go from VOL2? I ask because sometimes layouts do not provide input/output.
Like the 2nd layout provided:
https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html
Input/Output is not indicated
Again thank you answering my dumb questions.
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 06:56:10 AM
1) If I were to breadboard say the Layout posted above, how do account for the holes represented?
You'll give yourself a headache trying to breadboard from a layout, unless the layout in question is all in strips of five holes.
Quote
2) Using layout above, If I were to again breadboard, what would I use as output? Would I just go from VOL2? I ask because sometimes layouts do not provide input/output.
Like the 2nd layout provided:
https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html
Input/Output is not indicated
Input and output are clarified on comment #2.
http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm
Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful
Quote from: bluebunny on March 22, 2020, 08:25:34 AM
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 06:56:10 AM
1) If I were to breadboard say the Layout posted above, how do account for the holes represented?
You'll give yourself a headache trying to breadboard from a layout, unless the layout in question is all in strips of five holes.
i have seen them before, 7 hole wide breadboards, but i cant find them on google or ebay. :icon_cry: :icon_cry:
Quote
You'll give yourself a headache trying to breadboard from a layout, unless the layout in question is all in strips of five holes.
I thought it was just me good to know lol ;D
Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm
Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful
This is perfect thank u!
Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm
Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful
I just finished this breadboard, I have sound, I have fuzz, but the fuzz pot doesn't change anything.
Maybe bad pot?
(Ideally, first measure the collector voltages to give us an idea if the rest of the circuit is actually operating properly).
Possibly a bad pot, or maybe the 22u electrolytic cap wrongly oriented or not connected properly between wiper and ground (should have negative leg with stripe to ground and positive/non-striped leg connected to the middle lug).
Quick checks: Whilst listening carefully, remove the fuzz pot lug 1 from ground: The whole circuit should go silent as Q2 cannot operate without an emitter connection to ground. If this is the case, replace the ground connection and you should get the sound back: Now turn the fuzz pot to max, listen to judge the level of fuzz, then remove the 22u cap. If you hear no difference, this suggests a problem with the lug2 wiper connection or possibly the pot itself. To confirm this, now connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground - This should give a massive boost in fuzz/gain, effectively going from minimum to max fuzz in one swift movement.
Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 04:40:31 PM
(Ideally, first measure the collector voltages to give us an idea if the rest of the circuit is actually operating properly).
Possibly a bad pot, or maybe the 22u electrolytic cap wrongly oriented or not connected properly between wiper and ground (should have negative leg with stripe to ground and positive/non-striped leg connected to the middle lug).
Quick checks: Whilst listening carefully, remove the fuzz pot lug 1 from ground: The whole circuit should go silent as Q2 cannot operate without an emitter connection to ground. If this is the case, replace the ground connection and you should get the sound back: Now turn the fuzz pot to max, listen to judge the level of fuzz, then remove the 22u cap. If you hear no difference, this suggests a problem with the lug2 wiper connection or possibly the pot itself. To confirm this, now connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground - This should give a massive boost in fuzz/gain, effectively going from minimum to max fuzz in one swift movement.
Ok, so I think I measured the collectors right
Q1 = .53
Q2 =1.24
As far as the 22u cap, I removed and it made no difference. But I was a little confused by your next instruction...
"connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground"
side note: when I turn volume knob on guitar all the way down, signal becomes very loud, not sure if that means anything...
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
Ok, so I think I measured the collectors right
Q1 = .53
Q2 =1.24
You should be measuring them with the red wire of the multimeter directly on the collector leg (or connecting hole), and the black wire connected directly to ground. The voltages you quote are bit lower than I would expect, especially on the Q2.
Voltages in a fuzzface will vary depending upon the particular transistors used, but i would expect Q1 to be around a single volt and Q2 should be several volts (like 3-6v). Check all the resistor values, connections and transistor pin-outs/orientations carefully before proceeding further.
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
As far as the 22u cap, I removed and it made no difference. But I was a little confused by your next instruction...
"connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground"
In the picture from the Smallbear breadboarding tutorial below, the fuzz pot on the left of the picture is connected via the left hand wire (lug 1) to ground (actually connected through a wire link to the Q1 emitter, but that leg is grounded); The pot is also connected to the circuit via the right-hand wire (lug3) to the Q2 emitter (ninth hole counting from the left) and the middle wire (lug 2) is connected through the 22u cap to ground (visible in the middle at the bottom of the breadboard).
My suggestion is to remove this cap and connect the positive leg of the cap to the Q2 emitter (where fuzz pot lug3 is connected) and the negative leg directly to ground.
If the fuzz pot is defective (e.g. the lug2 wiper is not connecting internally to the resistive track inside the pot), a massive boost in fuzz when the cap is re-positioned would confirm this.
(http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/Fig41.jpg)
Quote
In the picture from the Smallbear breadboarding tutorial below, the fuzz pot on the left of the picture is connected via the left hand wire (lug 1) to ground (actually connected through a wire link to the Q1 emitter, but that leg is grounded); The pot is also connected to the circuit via the right-hand wire (lug3) to the Q2 emitter (ninth hole counting from the left) and the middle wire (lug 2) is connected through the 22u cap to ground (visible in the middle at the bottom of the breadboard).
My suggestion is to remove this cap and connect the positive leg of the cap to the Q2 emitter (where fuzz pot lug3 is connected) and the negative leg directly to ground.
If the fuzz pot is defective (e.g. the lug2 wiper is not connecting internally to the resistive track inside the pot), a massive boost in fuzz when the cap is re-positioned would confirm this.
I really really appreciate your help. Honestly if I knew you I'd high five you, well maybe not with the corona thing happening, maybe an "air-five" but you get the sentiment. Thank you
A note: I didn't have a 2.2 mf for the input so I've been using a 4.7uf I also tried a 1uf. Not sure if this is important...
As far as the 22 cap, am I leaving Fuzz pot lug 3 connected when I put the 22uf cap in?
edit: The build also asks for a C1k pot which I happened to have. Would a B1k work as well?
edit:
yes connected cap to lug 3/Q2 and masssive increase. would a B1k work here? I don't think I have any other C1's
thanks again
Short answer - Yes, you need lug 1 and 3 of the fuzz pot connected for the cicuit to work at all: This gives you a fixed resistance of 1k from Q2 emitter to ground which biases the transistor, giving it a DC path to ground. Input cap value won't make a huge difference, much bigger and it will get too bass heavy and woolly, much less than 1u and it will lose that bassy, woolly fuzzyness and start sounding more like a distortion pedal (many mods recommend a lower cap for this exact reason, though). C taper pot is best, B taper next best, A taper will be non-ideal but any taper will "work" as long as the value of the pot is 1k.
Longer explanation - The fuzzface gain pot works by allowing variable lower resistance AC path to ground from the emitter through the cap: This boosts gain but does not alter the DC bias (since caps "block" DC). The fuzzface gain pot has most of the gain boost bunched up in the last few hundred ohms of resistance. A, B and C pot suffixes are just indicators of the taper of the pot. C taper pots ("reverse audio/reverse log") effectively spread the "last" few hundred ohm range of resistance over a larger portion of the pot's physical rotation, giving finer control where needed at the expense of fine control at the start of rotation. B taper is linear and spread of resistance is.... linear. A taper is audio, where the change in resistance suits the perceived change in loudness in response to power increase. This is why output volume pots tend to work best with audio taper pots.
Quote from: nocentelli on March 23, 2020, 09:45:22 AM
Short answer - Yes, you need lug 1 and 3 of the fuzz pot connected for the cicuit to work at all: This gives you a fixed resistance of 1k from Q2 emitter to ground which biases the transistor, giving it a DC path to ground. Input cap value won't make a huge difference, much bigger and it will get too bass heavy and woolly, much less than 1u and it will lose that bassy, woolly fuzzyness and start sounding more like a distortion pedal (many mods recommend a lower cap for this exact reason, though). C taper pot is best, B taper next best, A taper will be non-ideal but any taper will "work" as long as the value of the pot is 1k.
Longer explanation - The fuzzface gain pot works by allowing variable lower resistance AC path to ground from the emitter through the cap: This boosts gain but does not alter the DC bias (since caps "block" DC). The fuzzface gain pot has most of the gain boost bunched up in the last few hundred ohms of resistance. A, B and C pot suffixes are just indicators of the taper of the pot. C taper pots ("reverse audio/reverse log") effectively spread the "last" few hundred ohm range of resistance over a larger portion of the pot's physical rotation, giving finer control where needed at the expense of fine control at the start of rotation. B taper is linear and spread of resistance is.... linear. A taper is audio, where the change in resistance suits the perceived change in loudness in response to power increase. This is why output volume pots tend to work best with audio taper pots.
Thank you again for taking the time to go through it with me. I see what you mean with the B1k, the last bit of a turn is where all the fuzz is hiding. Will try and source another C1k.
Excited to try different components. I have some germanium transistors, will try the Fuzz Face calculator and all that.
Does smallbear have a tutorial on how to convert breadboard to perfboard?
I'm not sure about perfboard tutorials, being strictly stripboard myself. However, I have read many pedal builders claim that perf is way easier to layout (compared to strip board) because you can simply translate the schematic into physical connections with no need for jumpers and cuts and the brain-twisting thought processes that laying out a stripboard entails (although I quite enjoy it.... :o).
I guess you would need to sketch the schematic on the non-copper side of the perf, respecting the required hole-spans for each component, and soldering the parts in one at a time, connecting each to the previous component as you go.
Quote from: nocentelli on March 23, 2020, 10:02:34 AM
I'm not sure about perfboard tutorials, being strictly stripboard myself. However, I have read many pedal builders claim that perf is way easier to layout (compared to strip board) because you can simply translate the schematic into physical connections with no need for jumpers and cuts and the brain-twisting thought processes that laying out a stripboard entails (although I quite enjoy it.... :o).
I guess you would need to sketch the schematic on the non-copper side of the perf, respecting the required hole-spans for each component, and soldering the parts in one at a time, connecting each to the previous component as you go.
I have both so maybe I'll try strip board firs . thank you for you guidance kind sir.
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
Ok, so I think I measured the collectors right
Q1 = .53
Q2 =1.24
Looks a lot like the base voltages of a silicon fuzz face. As you're trouble shooting right now, voltages of all the transistor leads could be useful.
I put in a pair of Germanium NPN transistors , sounds great. Might try and figure out a bias or tone knob to smooth things out. . I appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge :)
Quote from: Fancy Lime on March 22, 2020, 04:07:20 AM
You can also just take any 2-knob fuzz layout, of which there are thousands, and add Mark Hammers Patented Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (not really patented) between the output of the board and the Volume pot. I would suggest a Jordan Bosstone with red or, even better, bright blue LED's as clipping diodes for this. One of my favorite fuzzes, easy to build, sounds great and there is a perf layout here:
https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html
Anyone have a FF schematic with the SWTC included, or is it just as easy as adding before VOL pot?
Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm
Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful
(sorry to bug you again :o)
So I got this successfully bread boarded, sounds great, now trying to find a decent layout to build to help plan my strip board. But most of the layouts I come across seems to have the C1 Ground connected to input? The smallbear breadboard has input into + end of C1.
Do you or anyone have a solid FF layout that somewhat mimics the smallbear, or am I just reading everything wrong?
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 25, 2020, 08:00:58 AMBut most of the layouts I come across seems to have the C1 Ground connected to input? The smallbear breadboard has input into + end of C1.
The orientation of that polarized capacitor depends on the polarity of the power supply. And that depends on the type of transistors used.
It's the other way around for pnp transistors (usually germanium and positive ground) than for npn transistors (usually silicon and negative ground).
C1 is that 2.2uF cap.
The same rules apply for the 20uF cap on the fuzz pot.
PNP germanium positive ground:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/ba/2f/bcba2fcaaec97a52d54c26b16701bb49.png)
NPN silicon negative ground:
(https://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface/fuzzfacenpnschematic.gif)
Quote
The orientation of that polarized capacitor depends on the polarity of the power supply. And that depends on the type of transistors used.
It's the other way around for pnp transistors (usually germanium and positive ground) than for npn transistors (usually silicon and negative ground).
C1 is that 2.2uF cap.
The same rules apply for the 20uF cap on the fuzz pot.
I'm an idiot, I had the 2.2uf input reversed on my breadboard ::)
Still sounded good? weird
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 25, 2020, 10:52:33 AM
I'm an idiot, I had the 2.2uf input reversed on my breadboard ::)
Still sounded good? weird
It wouldn't stop it working, and given the low voltages in that area, it may be a while before the cap complains (I'm sure Paul would explain it better). Putting it backwards across the whole power supply is a whole nuther matter! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 25, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
Do you or anyone have a solid FF layout that somewhat mimics the smallbear, or am I just reading everything wrong?
This is nice and small -
(http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/file/n36984/Dallas_Fuzz_Face_2.png)
Values seem to match the smallbear schematic too
Quote from: nocentelli on March 25, 2020, 08:13:40 PM
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 25, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
Do you or anyone have a solid FF layout that somewhat mimics the smallbear, or am I just reading everything wrong?
This is nice and small -
(http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/file/n36984/Dallas_Fuzz_Face_2.png)
Values seem to match the smallbear schematic too
Awesome man thank you, I'm gonna give it a shot tomorrow!
Last question, I promise. Is there a universal way to wire the 3pdt?
Yeah, several. ;)
I've always used the Tonepad schemes and never had a problem.
Quote from: bluebunny on March 26, 2020, 03:59:18 AM
Yeah, several. ;)
I've always used the Tonepad schemes and never had a problem.
Lol gotcha
Having trouble finding a straightforward 3PDT NPN layout without LED, not sure if that's a thing. I can do LED but I don't really need/want.
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 08:02:34 AM
Having trouble finding a straightforward 3PDT NPN layout without LED
The 3P stands for 3 poles. 3 places you want to switch: input, output, led.
The DT stands for Double Throw. Double/Two positions: Input connected to the circuit(1) or to the output(2). LED connected to power(1) or not(2). etc.
Without a LED you can either use a 2PDT or buy the slightly more expensive 3PDT and don't use the row of pins on the switch you'd normally use for the LED.:
Leave out the blue connections on the right to the LED and +9V
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TvLTvJfDxqE/VLVDdmhY8UI/AAAAAAAAAbs/4gZvEL-rWXI/s1600/Capture%2Bd%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran%2B2015-01-13%2Ba%CC%80%2B17.09.47.png)
Quote from: j_flanders on March 26, 2020, 08:30:38 AM
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 08:02:34 AM
Having trouble finding a straightforward 3PDT NPN layout without LED
The 3P stands for 3 poles. 3 places you want to switch: input, output, led.
The DT stands for Double Throw: Two positions. Input connected to the circuit or to the output. LED connected to power or not. etc.
Without a LED you can either use a 2PDT or buy the slightly more expensive 3PDT and don't use the row of pins on the switch you'd normally use for the LED.:
Leave out the blue connections on the right to the LED and +9V
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TvLTvJfDxqE/VLVDdmhY8UI/AAAAAAAAAbs/4gZvEL-rWXI/s1600/Capture%2Bd%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran%2B2015-01-13%2Ba%CC%80%2B17.09.47.png)
I have some 3PDTS that I'll be using. Following the the diagram, I can just skip the lug labeled "to LED" and I'm good? Just want to make sure before I start soldering. 8)
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 08:49:33 AMFollowing the the diagram, I can just skip the lug labeled "to LED" and I'm good? Just want to make sure before I start soldering. 8)
Yes,
AND
No need to bring the 9V to the switch as it will connect to nothing there without the LED, so leave that out as well:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBJMDgVN/Untitled.png)
Quote
Yes,
AND
No need to bring the 9V to the switch as it will connect to nothing there without the LED, so leave that out as well:
Ok. I'm going to be using a 9v jack, I just connect + and - to the circuit board then, no need to connect to switch. Will i have any issue with popping?
and I found this layout as well on Fuzz Central. Essentially same as yours just a bit rearranged?
(https://i.postimg.cc/QVyStNQW/switchwiringnpn.gif) (https://postimg.cc/QVyStNQW)
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
Ok. I'm going to be using a 9v jack, I just connect + and - to the circuit board then, no need to connect to switch.
Correct
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
Will i have any issue with popping?
Maybe. It depends on the circuit, and if you have a 1M Ohm pull down resistor to ground before the 2.2uF input capacitor.
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
and I found this layout as well on Fuzz Central. Essentially same as yours just a bit rearranged?
(https://i.postimg.cc/QVyStNQW/switchwiringnpn.gif) (https://postimg.cc/QVyStNQW)
Same arrangement but drawn 'upside down'
The image below shows that a 3PDT switch has two positions and it shows what the 3 middle lugs connect to in either of those two positions:
lug 2 to 3, lug 5 to 6 and lug 8 to 9
OR
lug 2 to 1, lug 5 to 4, and lug 8 to 7
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yTVtHmr/index.png)
Quote
Same arrangement but drawn 'upside down'
Oh man, I'm over my head lol
Do I have to ground switch?
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 09:36:10 AM
Quote
Same arrangement but drawn 'upside down'
Oh man, I'm over my head lol
I've edited my post to explain but you were too quick to reply. :)
Quote
I've edited my post to explain but you were too quick to reply. :)
Sorry Just saw it
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 09:36:10 AM
Do I have to ground switch?
If it's screwed into a metal enclosure it's grounded.
But I don't think there's a specific need to ground a 3PDT switch.
Quote
If it's screwed into a metal enclosure it's grounded.
But I don't think there's a specific need to ground a 3PDT switch.
Can I ground things anywhere on ground signal or Do you recommend grounding pots on the input jack for instance?
Quote
(http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/file/n36984/Dallas_Fuzz_Face_2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/67ShzQjV/Fig17.gif) (https://postimg.cc/67ShzQjV)
What is the function of the 100u? This isn't on the Small bear FF schematic...
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 12:20:51 PM
What is the function of the 100u? This isn't on the Small bear FF schematic...
Power filter, to remove ripple from the adapter.
If you only use a battery, which is common for a Fuzz Face, you can omit it. Batteries have clean power.
Quote
Power filter, to remove ripple from the adapter.
If you only use a battery, which is common for a Fuzz Face, you can omit it. Batteries have clean power.
Cool. I'll most likely have it daisy chained, afraid when I play love (if that ever happens again) I'll have forgotten to change battery ;)
But if I do omit, I don't need to alter the layout in anyway?
Also when you mentioned adding a cap to prevent switch pop, where would that be located and is that necessary?
edit: does the 100u effect the output sound in anyway?
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 12:47:46 PM
But if I do omit, I don't need to alter the layout in anyway?
No, you can just leave it out or just leave it in. Doesn't hurt either way. And no layout changes needed. You can put it in afterwards if you like or remove it later on if you want.
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 12:47:46 PM
Also when you mentioned adding a cap to prevent switch pop, where would that be located and is that necessary?
Resistor, not cap.
The 2.2M resistor, right before the 2.2uF input cap, is the pull down resistor to prevent switch pop. You can also use 1M or 470k.
(https://guitar-gear.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FuzzFace-schematics-Correct.jpg)
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 12:47:46 PM
edit: does the 100u effect the output sound in anyway?
This post explains possible reasons for that 100uF cap, even when using a battery:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=113734.msg1054057#msg1054057
The entire thread is a good read.
Quote
The 2.2M resistor, right before the 2.2uF input cap, is the pull down resistor to prevent switch pop. You can also use 1M or 470k.
Awesome thank you so much. Sorry I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I've had the iron on for over an hour afraid to make the initial solder, just gonna go for it lol
So without the R before C1 I'll have pop?
I'm assuming the resistor as a slight effect on output signal?
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 02:35:35 PM
So without the R before C1 I'll have pop?
It could.
Here's a page explaining why you can have pop: http://www.muzique.com/lab/pop.htm
I decided to just go with a 9v. I have 9v + and - directly into board. Do I need to wire 9v to input jack?
Quote from: DJPsychic on March 26, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
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Yes,
AND
No need to bring the 9V to the switch as it will connect to nothing there without the LED, so leave that out as well:
Ok. I'm going to be using a 9v jack, I just connect + and - to the circuit board then, no need to connect to switch. Will i have any issue with popping?
and I found this layout as well on Fuzz Central. Essentially same as yours just a bit rearranged?
(https://i.postimg.cc/QVyStNQW/switchwiringnpn.gif) (https://postimg.cc/QVyStNQW)
If you're concerned about popping, you shouldn't wire it up like that. Grounding the input in bypass is hardly any more effort and the superior way achieving true bypass.
Quote from: Electric Warrior on March 26, 2020, 05:45:01 PM
If you're concerned about popping, you shouldn't wire it up like that. Grounding the input in bypass is hardly any more effort and the superior way achieving true bypass.
Correct. It's my fault. I just took any 3PDT bypass image from Google to show how you could omit the status LED part.
It were better if I had choosen one with input (and output) grounding.
So, here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/hWQo3CL.png)
Or
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/10H8n7j17Wo3gCe7ynDSh6vfeQcHrez1TDWFBOVPYxBLF4Xde61ZJRqL-4exEU-PIWnRcxrXWtURvE-oCgJecpPAGAgaTVu3aQ)
Ok...here's my ghetto drawing of everything I did (wrong)
I tried to color coat all of my connections
(https://i.postimg.cc/w13jRrqZ/FUZZ-THUMB2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w13jRrqZ)
You need to get rid of the pink wire labelled L1 (that you have connected to +9V on the board). Connect the black battery snap wire to input jack L1 (the ring connection) instead of the board. The rest looks OK.
Quote from: nocentelli on March 27, 2020, 12:56:35 PM
You need to get rid of the pink wire labelled L1 (that you have connected to +9V on the board). Connect the black battery snap wire to input jack L1 (the ring connection) instead of the board. The rest looks OK.
Ok, I have removed "L1" from +9v
So then what replaces the ground for the board after I remove battery snap??
You have a stereo input jack but a guitar jack (plug) is mono. The battery negative is connected to the ring connection on the input, and there is a connection between the input ground lug ("sleeve") and the circuit board via that pink L2 wire. When you insert the guitar jack into the socket, it bridges the ground/sleeve and ring contacts and connects the battery negative terminal to the circuit. The +9v red wire from the battery is permanently connected to the circuit, but the power circuit is only completed when you have a guitar cable plugged into the input: This prevents the battery from draining when not in use (IF you always remember to unplug the input cable when you finish playing).
Quote from: nocentelli on March 27, 2020, 02:39:13 PM
You have a stereo input jack but a guitar jack (plug) is mono. The battery negative is connected to the ring connection on the input, and there is a connection between the input ground lug ("sleeve") and the circuit board via that pink L2 wire. When you insert the guitar jack into the socket, it bridges the ground/sleeve and ring contacts and connects the battery negative terminal to the circuit. The +9v red wire from the battery is permanently connected to the circuit, but the power circuit is only completed when you have a guitar cable plugged into the input: This prevents the battery from draining when not in use (IF you always remember to unplug the input cable when you finish playing).
cool. works great.
any idea why when I turn my body I completely lose signal?
Intermittent connection somewhere, almost guaranteed.
Quote from: j_flanders on March 26, 2020, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Electric Warrior on March 26, 2020, 05:45:01 PM
If you're concerned about popping, you shouldn't wire it up like that. Grounding the input in bypass is hardly any more effort and the superior way achieving true bypass.
Correct. It's my fault. I just took any 3PDT bypass image from Google to show how you could omit the status LED part.
It were better if I had choosen one with input (and output) grounding.
So, here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/hWQo3CL.png)
Or
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/10H8n7j17Wo3gCe7ynDSh6vfeQcHrez1TDWFBOVPYxBLF4Xde61ZJRqL-4exEU-PIWnRcxrXWtURvE-oCgJecpPAGAgaTVu3aQ)
Sorry to bring up an old topic, but Would I be able to use this switch configuration on a sun face?
(https://i.postimg.cc/V5mY73Mt/Analogman-Sunface-BC108.png) (https://postimg.cc/V5mY73Mt)
If I wanted to omit LED could I just leave out or would I have to use this version
(https://i.postimg.cc/TK1wyJQJ/FUZZ69.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TK1wyJQJ)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/TK1wyJQJ/FUZZ69.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TK1wyJQJ)
Quick update (not that you anyone cares) but I got my FF variant up and running and it sounds great. Went with a fairy simple classic FF, with the inpute bias knob.
One last question, is the switching configuration I used (pictured) considered true bypass?
I know this may be a dumb question but someone earlier mentioned an alternative switch being "superior". Everything works fantastic just making sure it truly is TB
Thank you everyone for your guidance. I'll post a demo in the near future. I named it the "Fuzz Bone" ;D
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Quick update (not that you anyone cares) but I got my FF variant up and running and it sounds great. Went with a fairy simple classic FF, with the inpute bias knob.
One last question, is the switching configuration I used (pictured) considered true bypass?
I know this may be a dumb question but someone earlier mentioned an alternative switch being "superior". Everything works fantastic just making sure it truly is TB
if there is a direct path between the input and output when switched off, its true bypass, the only other option i know is buffered bypass, where, when in mypass, the input goes to a buffer circuit on a circuit board first before going out.
Quote from: iainpunk on April 02, 2020, 04:36:32 PMthe only other option i know is buffered bypass,
He's referring to this 'other option':
Quote from: Electric Warrior on March 26, 2020, 05:45:01 PM
If you're concerned about popping, you shouldn't wire it up like that. Grounding the input in bypass is hardly any more effort and the superior way achieving true bypass.