Finally, it's done, the second incarnation of the BSIAB:
All schems, layout and a sound clip are here:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=178&op=page&SubMenu=
It's still basically a cascaded minibooster overdriver, derived from the works of the great Jack Orman, Aron Nelson and Doug Hammond.
Basically, I used what I learned of tone shaping in the gain stages, using different FETs throughout, added a CCS gain stage at the end for more sustain (and elimination of oscillations) and a double-pole filter at the end to make the tone control more usable.
Overall, the tone is more punchy, and the thing is finally usable when you turn down the drive pot for those bluesy tones. The tone has more clarity and you can really hear the difference between guitars and pickups, it lets the character of the guitar shine through, it's overall more amp-like.
Big thanks go to everyone, including but not limited to (and in no particular order) JD Sleep, Ed Rembold, Aron, Jered Carlson, Jack Orman, and anyone else who directly and indirectly contributed to this project.
I recommend to anyone considering building this project to purchase a board from JD, it eliminates (to me) the most aggravating aspects of the build, and it helps to keep his site going.
Cool Ed,
the BSIAB has always been one of my favorities. In fact I was looking for it last night and couldn't find it. So now I suppose I'll have to build the BSIAB II.
I may seem like a biased opinion, but I _have_ to add some comments. This BSIAB II is better than any commercial distortion pedal I've ever heard. If you like the sound of your guitar, you'll love this thing. Run a tele on bridge pickup into it, with drive on max and you'll still hear the legendary twang sound of the tele coming thru! Run a 335 into and you still get the hard driving blues sound, etc. The sound of your guitar shines thru with GREAT distortion sounds. Clarity is good, you can blast out chords and they sound great. And the low drive sounds are also very, very good. Build it! you won't be sorry.
I think Ed forgot to mention that the oscillation problems that somtimes plagued the BSIAB (I) are completely fixed on the II version.
JD
are the harmonics as good or better?
Just checking out the schem at GGG, and noticed there is no part value shown for C2. I see from the layout that it is 0.068uf, but I just thought I'd mention it. Also, is there any reason for using parallel caps for C3 other than part availabilty reasons? The Guv'nor was on my list of to do pedals, but maybe I will put the BSIAB II ahead of it.
Kerry M
Bill,
Yes! harmonics are still there.
Kerry,
I'll add that C2 value, thanks. Yes it is 0.068uF.
C3 is just value adding, so if you can find a 1.2uF cap, then you only need one cap ;-)
JD
Great job Ed!
I really like your first version.
Can`t wai to try the second.
Ed
Wow! thanks Ed!
I think the Bsiab is one of the best overdrive sound around. Maybe a bit too distorted to my ears. I'm going to build the bsiabII as soon as possible.
maybe trying to lower the gain a bit...
bye
The BSIAB II can do the 'lower drive' thing pretty well, that was one of my main goals, I found the original was a 'one trick pony.'
Version II can go from a light overdrive to high-gain, touch sensitive rock tones.
If you want to lower the gain even more, try all 2N5457's throughout the circuit. To lower it even more, try MPF102's in the first stage. I like lower gain fets in the first stage, it keeps it nice and open-sounding.
How can I get fix on something?...
Everytime I have a specific project to build, somebody comes with a new/better/different one. :cry:
What I wanted to build in the following days was a TS-9/Guv'nor style effect. Something to complement my Fender tube amp for the times I want a different sound. I always liked the sound of the original BSIAB, but found its gain a bit too much for me. BSIAB 2 seems just perfect.
Nice playing btw... It helps to make an effect sound good.
Gilles
It will never end (thankfully).
Thanks for all of your work Ed! I'll have the BSIAB 1 & 2 side by side. I still love the original, but will build the II soon.
JD offered up a pretty bold statement for this one, so that's good enough for me.
(Not to mention, as good as the original BSIAB sounds, if Ed thought the II is an improvement, well, who can argue...)
I got mine etched,drilled and populated but I didn't solder it up yet when I found out I didn't have any 2N5457's. Are there and subs that won't degrade the integrity of the circuit?
Because I live in the UK some of these trannies are hard to find. I use J201s where specified but us 2N3819s instead of MPF102s and 2N5457/8/9. Because Ive never heard these effects with the original spec devices I cant compare but they sound good to me :)
I think I have some 2N5458's or maybe 2N5485's.
Hey Bill, last time I picked up 2N5457s I grabbed a bunch so if you want, PM me with your address and I'll drop a few off to you in the mail.
Take care,
-Peter
Quote from: Bill BergmanI got mine etched,drilled and populated but I didn't solder it up yet when I found out I didn't have any 2N5457's. Are there and subs that won't degrade the integrity of the circuit?
You can use J201's throughout, but it will be more distorted and compressed. I find the 2N5457's give it a more 'open' sound. However, the fets are not the only thing contributing to the 'open' sound, so it will still sound good, but consider socketing the fets, and trying it with the 2N5457's when you get some.
Thanks Ed, I can't wait to hear this one!
Well, the BSIAB might be a "one trick pony", but I sure like it! Actually, I am able to get some bluesy sounds out of it depending on how my vol and tone controls are set on my guitar, but you do have to work to get a tone like that...
I've got a bunch of 2N5952 left over from the Phase45 build. I wonder how those would work? I know I'd have to plug em' in backwards! :?
RDV
Finished it last night and had to sub the 2N5457's(but there on the way, thanks Peter). First I tried MPF102's....weak, unimpressive. Then I tried all J201's.....harsh, big hum, once again unimpressive. Finally I tried 2N5485's much better, lots of harmonics. The tone control would add or subtract treble but not really add bass.
I still can't find my original :x I think I had added a cap on a switch for a treble boost when the volume wasn't at max. Can't remember how I did it.
Looking forward to seeing the difference in the 5457's
Quote from: Bill BergmanFinished it last night and had to sub the 2N5457's(but there on the way, thanks Peter). First I tried MPF102's....weak, unimpressive. Then I tried all J201's.....harsh, big hum, once again unimpressive. Finally I tried 2N5485's much better, lots of harmonics. The tone control would add or subtract treble but not really add bass.
I still can't find my original :x I think I had added a cap on a switch for a treble boost when the volume wasn't at max. Can't remember how I did it.
Looking forward to seeing the difference in the 5457's
I'm not familiar with 2N5485's, so I don't know what difference it will make. The tone control does maintain the bass when turned up, unlike other BMP tone controls, it just worked out that way on the breadboard.
I remember on your original bsiab, I suggested sticking a cap on the volume control, I think you stuck a .001 or such, I thought it was a pretty high value, but it seemed to work for you.
Cool Thanks Ed!
Now I understand the tone control.
Wow, great memory on the cap thing.....which lugs do I connect the cap to on the volume pot.
Screw the cap thing I was talking about....... :shock: I just stumble across something that makes this pedal SCREAM :P
I was messing around with the a cap on the volume pot then the tone pot and had marginal result ......then by mistake I jumped a wire between the output on the stompswitch and the middle lug on the tone pot...bamm...big volume jump, way extended tone range, more gain and or even cleaner brightness,glassyness and presents on the gain low setting.
Wow, either I have something wired wrong originally or I've found a killer mod. Sombody try this and let me know.....just run a wire from the middle lug of the tone pot to the output.
Quote from: Bill BergmanScrew the cap thing I was talking about....... :shock: I just stumble across something that makes this pedal SCREAM :P
I was messing around with the a cap on the volume pot then the tone pot and had marginal result ......then by mistake I jumped a wire between the output on the stompswitch and the middle lug on the tone pot...bamm...big volume jump, way extended tone range, more gain and or even cleaner brightness,glassyness and presents on the gain low setting.
Wow, either I have something wired wrong originally or I've found a killer mod. Sombody try this and let me know.....just run a wire from the middle lug of the tone pot to the output.
Makes sense,Bill --you just bypassed the two-pole passive low-pass filter on the end of the circuit --which cuts highs, and gain.
-Eric
Oh.... just goes to show ya I don't know what the heck I'm doing :oops:
still I guess it make a good rhythm lead switch.
Or you can add another gain stage after the tone control like on a BMP to make up for the filter.
RDV
Quote from: Eric HQuote from: Bill BergmanScrew the cap thing I was talking about....... :shock: I just stumble across something that makes this pedal SCREAM :P
I was messing around with the a cap on the volume pot then the tone pot and had marginal result ......then by mistake I jumped a wire between the output on the stompswitch and the middle lug on the tone pot...bamm...big volume jump, way extended tone range, more gain and or even cleaner brightness,glassyness and presents on the gain low setting.
Wow, either I have something wired wrong originally or I've found a killer mod. Sombody try this and let me know.....just run a wire from the middle lug of the tone pot to the output.
Makes sense,Bill --you just bypassed the two-pole passive low-pass filter on the end of the circuit --which cuts highs, and gain.
-Eric
Yep, you could even make that switchable, like a bright switch to compensate for darker amps. I run my stuff into a fender super reverb, a rather bright amp, so the LPF works for me.
Ed, I'm getting even more(not more better just more different) cool tones on my strat also as opposed to my parker(active pickup). Also with this mod/filter bypass, with the volume at max you get different and even better characteristics but the boost is way to high as opposed to bypass mode. I'm thinking maybe a master volume and a 2 position cap filter switch would give an incredible amount of flexibility. I know more knobs takes away from the pedals simplicity, but with only the 3 existing knobs and the one simple mods I'm getting almost all the tones of my sansamp clone. With the other mods I mentioned above it would even better.
Ed, try the simple jumper and let me know what you think...try all the different setting on the 3 pots before you decide it's too bright.
I tried it on the breadboard several times and it's still too bright for me, but I play strat into fender amp -- that's a bright combination.
But hey, if it works for you, that's all that matters.
BTW, I got the idea for the LPF from the ROG designs. I had breadboarded the prof. tweed and still had it on the breadboard. I think it works great as far as shaving off the harsh high fizzy parts, while leaving the 'good stuff' in. There was a thread about this a while ago and Mark Hammer really went into detail about the desirability of multi-pole LPFs
Thanks Ed!
BTW, have you tried it yet with the 2N5457's? How do you like the sound with the 2N5485s? I don't know how much gain those have, but the MPF102 definitely doesn't do it in that circuit, too little gain.
Waiting on the 2N5457's....I'll let you know when i try'um
Quote from: Ed G.
BTW, I got the idea for the LPF from the ROG designs. I had breadboarded the prof. tweed and still had it on the breadboard. I think it works great as far as shaving off the harsh high fizzy parts, while leaving the 'good stuff' in. There was a thread about this a while ago and Mark Hammer really went into detail about the desirability of multi-pole LPFs
I completely agree --those filters can do a great job of shaving the fizz a little bit --without killing the high-end earlier in the circuit. Good stuff.
-Eric
I hate fizzys :wink:
Quote from: Bill BergmanI hate fizzys :wink:
--Caution: old geezer content--
You mean the ones you threw in a glass of water? Fruit-flavored Alka-Seltzer?
:? :shock:
I remember those (certified geezer), it was more like bubbly coolaid.
Well I crapped out my BSIAB..... I took a simple to operate pedal added a few knobs,an extra switch and pot, threw in a couple caps(got to clean that up when i figure out which ones to use) and made a pedal that difficult to operate. http://www.freewebs.com/elroy2/ pic#2
Looks killer!
As soon as my parts come in from small bear I'll be able to move beyond the breadboard. Imagine that! One day I too will have my own BSIAB II!
So I understand the filter bypass function, but what's the extra control and footswitch do?
The foot switch activates the filter bypass, the rotary switch introduces 2 different filter caps back into the circuit and the pot controls the added gain due to the filter bypass. That creates a lot variations. I think the original volume and treble may be effected but mabe I just wired it a little wrong or maybe be the 5485's are lacking the gain. The level seems too low with the volume at 50% when in the original mode.
Cool Lookin Pedal Bill, any sound clips of it ?
JD
Ed G, when you say mpf102's dont have enough gain, do they still sound alright? because its impossible to get j201's over here in nz, so i might try an all mpf102 bsiab ii...
Quote from: Alpha579Ed G, when you say mpf102's dont have enough gain, do they still sound alright? because its impossible to get j201's over here in nz, so i might try an all mpf102 bsiab ii...
Can you get 2n5484, 2sk117, BF245A ?
-Eric
nope, none of em...
Have you tried small bear? I'm pretty sure Steve can ship overseas.
Hi, Farnell has a good selection of FETs. Visit their WEB site, or ring their 0800 number. J201 part# 740.937 about $3 +courier.
John G
I perfed the BSIAB ll this afternoon, and I got to play it awhile even though I hav'nt boxed it yet, played it through a Kalamazoo 2X10 Bass amp that I modded a lil, it's got 2 EL 34 power tubes, and a couple of ECC 83's for pre's.
Man if you don't build this pedal you don't know what your missin, this circuit has great distortion for a classic tone, cords also sound very good through it and when turned down on the gain it has a more realistic sound for my ears than my old TS-9, can't wait to get it boxed now !
Thank's Ed & the rest you Guy's that helped out on this one.
JD
Glad you like it JD, I find it does have a good 'classic rock' tone and it's pretty high gain for the leads, but it also cleans up good for the bluesy stuff you would use a tube screamer for, so I think it's a good versatile pedal.
Plus, even at high gain settings, it's dead quiet.