http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7316790707&ssPageName=ADME:B:RECO:UK:2
Anyone know if this is what it looks like, or just the same "name" !!!
He call's it a "fuzz" so ..........?
BTW those boxes are nasty, you can only get inside from the thin ends :roll:
Marty.
No doubt. It is the Blue Magic from GGG. The sound samples on his site are even the same as on GGG.
There is also BSIAB2. here's the link:
http://travestydog.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
i e-mailed jd last week about those, apparently the guy is selling kits of em too :(
Not a very informative web site (it ain't me, by the way).
Looks like he's using my name, and JD's description of the pedal. I'm sure he's using JD's layout if he's too lazy to even come up with his own description.
I don't know what rights we have in this, especially it being overseas. I'm sure there are others out there making money off of this. Oh well...I made the decision to share this with others. Unfortunately, when I get done with version 3, I doubt it will be released to the public. I enjoyed getting the feedback and seeing people enjoy building the bsiab.
It must be frustrating to see these things happening.
Isn't there nothing to do about it?
Has anyone asked the seller yet?
I *think* that if you buy JD's circuit boards, he gives you the right to sell them, at least he *used* to do that at one time. This may be just that.
Quote from: Ed G.Looks like he's using my name, and JD's description of the pedal. I'm sure he's using JD's layout if he's too lazy to even come up with his own description.
I don't know what rights we have in this, especially it being overseas. I'm sure there are other dicks out there making money off of this. Oh well...I made the decision to share this with others, and this is what happens.
Unfortunately, when I get done with version 3, I doubt it will be released to the public. I enjoyed getting the feedback and seeing people enjoy building the bsiab.
We all know the technical legal ramifications of using a copyrighted layout and/or description (if you're new here, just search for "copyright" and you'll be busy for a day or two) so no need to re-hash it here. The actual circuit though? That's the risk you take in posting something publicly. Sorry if I sound like a cyncial a**hole, but if you post something that's even halfway original (or even if it's not) it's going to be ripped off. If you can deal with that, great - for instance, I have no clue how JD or RG keep their sties up and running. The bandwidth costs alone must be huge. I can only guess that the warm fuzzy feeling from positive emails outweighs the sick feeling from incidents like this one.
I'm just surprised how blatant it is...It uses the bsiab name, it mentions my name and it also uses JD's description of the circuit.
I know anyone can use the circuit, but I'm pretty sure he's using JD's layout, which would be a copyright violation.
If someone would be buying numerous boards from JD to sell, JD would have let me know. This isn't the case, I am sure of that.
I realize there isn't much that can be done here, but it's a bit disappointing.
Ed, perhaps a "legal" type email, cleverly worded may be enough to stop
this ?
There's not much else we can do, if he's done his own layout and the "BSIAB II" name has no copyright ....
Its a bummer, you know how I feel about this stuff, but unfortunately not
everyone is so "fair" about things, and this is small, how about what goes
on in a "BIG" corporate buisness... !!! :shock:
I shudder to think .....
BTW: I looked into a "copyright" purchase last year for a design which is
unrelated to stompboxes, it would have cost me almost 50,000 bucks to
protect it worldwide ....... !!!!!!
I dropped the idea quite quickly ...
Regards,
Marty.
Marty,
I doubt he's done his own layout...I'd be surprised if he has. People like that rather use others' work.
I'm sure he's a lurker on here. I'd like to find out who he is.
Thing is, he's only one person. I'm sure there's more like him, just we don't know about it yet.
It's not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, but it kind of puts a damper on the whole spirit of 'sharing' ideas.
It'd be more of a pain in the ass to try to pursue legal avenues since he's overseas.
Ed, I took my meteor schem down last fall because a little bird warned me about someone producing it. Yeah, it's too late to put the proverbial cat back in the bag, etc. I guess it makes me feel more warm & fuzzy, which is good enough reason for me to take it down.
Overall I'm not that worried about stuff I've put in the public domain though. I don't post things I don't want to share. I don't have an issue with people wanting to make money. But what miffs me about this kind of stuff is when they don't ask you for permission or acknowledge you in any way. They basically carbon-copy your effort and BTW take all the credit too.
In the end it kind of taints the whole thing. Makes me think sometimes this sort of business is a pretty seedy enterprise. It also makes people feel like not contributing much. Too bad for the diy community.
Doug
I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find out who they are?
I might
might just ask a few questions.
How about asking to see pics of the board and parts?
Quote from: wampcat1I *think* that if you buy JD's circuit boards, he gives you the right to sell them, at least he *used* to do that at one time. This may be just that.
That's what's on the GGG site, or I think he asks 10% for using the layout and you fab the boards as well... I talked to JD about fabing some of my custom boards as well, and his quote was very resonable..
However, on top of this "royalty" stuff - we should all be sending in regular donations to GGG and other sites to help these guys cover their costs and some of their time... :D
I still maintain that if you don't want your stuff stolen, don't ever put it on a website, ever!! Unfortunately, that's kinda anti-DIY, so I guess it's a catch-22... :?
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the Blue Magic Jake Nagy's design?
Yupp, that's who they 'belong' to... :oops:
I feel a bit ill...
Yes, that was Jake Nagy's design.
I have thought about this a lot in the last few months, I think we should organize some effort to promote Ed, Doug, Jack's.... designs in a manner where the final product is "Officially Licensed" - meaning that a portion of the profits for the sale (as well as full recognition) would go to the appropriate place - the designer.
Make no mistake, any yahoo can put together a pedal from a layout... and I have seen some goofy, or just plain awful, builds sold on ebay, but all the other things beside the design/layout - the mechanicals and build quality of a pedal... which IMHO are just as important - make it a product that is worth selling... and I think some people have justified their "leveraging" of a design by thinking that if they carry the burden of producing a product they should make all of the profit... But, I think that a line of pedals that was fully endorsed by the original designer would be easier to promote in the light of day... thus making enough extra to support a "licensing fee" and recognition of the designer...
Well, that being what it is...eventually this has the effect of impeding any progress of new designs. Those who develop new designs will likely keep them to themselves in the future and the DIY community will gravitate to the cloning of already-existing designs (which isn't a far stretch, that seems to be where most people are at, anyway)
A licensing fee is a good idea, but how would it be enforced? And is it worth it? I couldn't even afford a lawyer for one hypothetical copyright infringement case! It wouldn't surprise me if people like this guy on ebay are banking on just that - the typical DIY'er doesn't have the resources to go after someone for stealing their work.
Id like to ask an open question to the gurus on this forum ...
We all know that representatives of commercial pedal manufacturers, and in some cases the individual "booteekers" lurk and post here. Anyone who reads half a dozen threads knows who the true designers and innovators are. Also, certain designs (AMZ Boosts, BSIAB etc) are incredibly well known and respected.
So .....
1) have any of you been approached by a commercial manufacturer to either design or collaborate on a design ?
2) if not yet (and if they were to), would you accept ?
I have a fair understanding of Puretube's (Ton's) position on this. If you feel you cant answer then I respect that, Im just interested in how far the big boys research "new" designs and popularity :oops:
hey DIYers,
i emailed the dude auctioning the fuzzes(in UK),
here's what he wrote back 2 me------
"Thank you for your email. I have written permission for the sale of all my products and all circuit boards are purchased directly from the designer/ vendor responsible. Some samples and discriptions are as you say duplicated but I have written permission for this. Travesty Dog"
B 4 accusations fly, ask questions first.
staylegal
tone
I guess I can relate from my perspective...I don't sell many custom pedals, but I do very good with the diy stuff at http://www.guitartone.net/.
I do notice all the time about people using my mods and deciding to enter into the marketplace. It used to frustrate me, but now I just figure that it's GOING to happen, no matter what I do, so I concentrate on staying one step ahead at all times.
For example, recently there was a guy on ebay using my mods, in particular my sd-1 mods, and even renamed mine. (I have mods like the 'chocolate-mod' and he had renamed it the "mocha-mod" and silly things like that). It really is the nature of the 'net I suppose.
Let me add that I don't mind people using my mods for profit, as long as they state that it is a mod from either indyguitarist.com or guitartone.net.
That said, I've noticed that the people that still ideas don't profit much or stay in business very long -- once they find out they have to provide support for the circuits, many of them find it isn't as 'easy' as they thought, or they just plain don't know enough to provide support.
My $.02 anyway. :)
Take care,
Brian
Quote from: TorchyId like to ask an open question to the gurus on this forum ...
We all know that representatives of commercial pedal manufacturers, and in some cases the individual "booteekers" lurk and post here. Anyone who reads half a dozen threads knows who the true designers and innovators are. Also, certain designs (AMZ Boosts, BSIAB etc) are incredibly well known and respected.
So .....
1) have any of you been approached by a commercial manufacturer to either design or collaborate on a design ?
2) if not yet (and if they were to), would you accept ?
I have a fair understanding of Puretube's (Ton's) position on this. If you feel you cant answer then I respect that, Im just interested in how far the big boys research "new" designs and popularity :oops:
I don't think I'm an 'innovator' by any means...maybe in marketing effects, but I dunno. :oops: :lol:
I guess Keeley and I have talked before about collaborating on some things, but nothing ever really came of it. After all this time, I've still never talked to AM, though it seems he's a very nice guy.
To be 100% honest, BIG money is not in boutique effects...we are a small majority, and don't make up a large percentage in sales for the large corporations. They rely on newer guitarists who buy every distortion pedal under the sun trying to sound like Zach Wylde, Steve Vai, etc. rather than practicing. Most of us like the boutique stuff because we can hear the difference between a sd-1 and a (name your boutique overdrive here).
Again, my $.02 opinion! :lol:
Take care,
Brian
Quote from: wampcat1
To be 100% honest, BIG money is not in boutique effects...we are a small majority, and don't make up a large percentage in sales for the large corporations. They rely on newer guitarists who buy every distortion pedal under the sun trying to sound like Zach Wylde, Steve Vai, etc. rather than practicing. Most of us like the boutique stuff because we can hear the difference between a sd-1 and a (name your boutique overdrive here).
Again, my $.02 opinion! :lol:
Take care,
Brian
A good example of this is the new digitech series...I mean come on...does any experienced guitar player REALLY think they are going to nail the sounds of hendrix or clapton?! :lol:
Quote from: Paul MarossyA licensing fee is a good idea, but how would it be enforced? And is it worth it? I couldn't even afford a lawyer for one hypothetical copyright infringement case! It wouldn't surprise me if people like this guy on ebay are banking on just that - the typical DIY'er doesn't have the resources to go after someone for stealing their work.
Paul -
I can't speak for Mojotron, but I think he's talking about doing something VOLUNTARY to help out all the great people who share their ideas with us along with a licensing "program".
Also, we can do other things. BT at Runoffgroove has been very kind in answering questions for me via email, and to show my support of ROG, I purchased a T-shirt and a couple of magnets. Now in retrospect, I should have just sent him some cash, since he only gets a small portion of that, but at least they get some advertising (Displayed my Fetzer build on the shirt).
I'd say anybody that would like to show their appreciation should do something like that, buy a board from Jack Orman, buy parts from Aron, or flat out send 5-10 bucks to your favorite. Those are just examples of a couple of people - There are many more, so I won't start a list and offend anybody by accidentally leaving them off.
I think ANYTHING that gets a little extra to these guys shows them that you are supportive. Maybe your friend gave you 20 bucks to build something for him - Post a note in the pedal stating "Thanks to XXX for the circuit". Write to the orginator of that pedal, send him X bucks and tell him how much you appreciate his work. Even a simple thank you (if you're strapped for cash) to these guys may be enough to keep them sharing!
Maybe a poor man's licensing could be used, such as a "Seal Of Approval" on a sellers webpage for the particular designer (or a list on the originators) and a 5-10 percent licensing fee paid for each pedal. I realize this is an on your honor thing, and you'd also have to rely on the board members, etc to report improper use of the license on a web page, but it would be a start. Even if we had a list of people and their "licensing" fee, at least the decent humans would send in the money if they sold something. Maybe that'll work (or not work) as well as computer shareware, but who knows. I suppose a disclaimer on build quality would be in order though...
Here's one idea I had that I was going to present to Aron, but it will fit well in this discussion:
I can make vinyl diecut decals on a cutter that's hooked to my PC. My intent was to cut up a number of white www.DIYStompBoxes.com decals and GIVE them to Aron so he could offer them for sale at 2-3 bucks a piece. That way all the money goes directly to Aron, and everybody can show their support at a very economical price. This could also be ROG, R.G., AMZ, or anybody.
Just ideas out loud, but I think we can do something to help those that take alot of their time to help the "DIY challenged".
Ron
Good post to show the weasels though - Keep that up!
QuoteOverall I'm not that worried about stuff I've put in the public domain though. I don't post things I don't want to share. I don't have an issue with people wanting to make money. But what miffs me about this kind of stuff is when they don't ask you for permission or acknowledge you in any way. They basically carbon-copy your effort and BTW take all the credit too.
It is like writing/recording your own cd, bringing it out in public, then someone else copies your cd, writes his name on it and sells it.
That must be very frustrating. Is there really no law prevents these things, like with cd's or so?
Quote from: hilbiQuoteOverall I'm not that worried about stuff I've put in the public domain though. I don't post things I don't want to share. I don't have an issue with people wanting to make money. But what miffs me about this kind of stuff is when they don't ask you for permission or acknowledge you in any way. They basically carbon-copy your effort and BTW take all the credit too.
It is like writing/recording your own cd, bringing it out in public, then someone else copies your cd, writes his name on it and sells it.
That must be very frustrating. Is there really no law prevents these things, like with cd's or so?
Yes, there are laws, but it takes money to ENFORCE them, as you would need a lawyer. Even then, the money it costs you usually won't outweigh the money you would receive. In this example, this guy MAY have sold 5 of them...if that. Even if you are awarded 25-50% of his profits, you are only looking at a couple hundred bucks max. A good lawyer will cost several hundred/hour at least.
Take care,
Brian
Clipped-
Oh, I realize this would be a voluntary licensing thing. I was referring to the violators of this agreement. You can count on there being some of those.
Anyhow, I agree with what you say. I occasionally have people donate money to me for my work on the Seymour Duncan Convertible and my website in general. It's always a nice gesture. I also like the sticker idea. I'm surprised no one has thought of that before! 8)
Well, before things get completely out of control... :D
Quote from: tonemanB 4 accusations fly, ask questions first.
Sage advice. Thanks for emailing the guy. We have to remember not to assume things before we get the facts.
Quote from: mojotronI have thought about this a lot in the last few months, I think we should organize some effort to promote Ed, Doug, Jack's.... designs in a manner where the final product is "Officially Licensed" - meaning that a portion of the profits for the sale (as well as full recognition) would go to the appropriate place - the designer.
I appreciate the thought, but... For my part I'm not interested in $$ even if you could actually manage something like this (which would be a nightmare IMO). When you put something in the public domain it is basically out of your control at that point. We all (should) know that going in. My only point was a plea for some common courtesy and basic manners when dealing with something that someone else produced.
From the above comment this may be much ado about nothing anyway. Sounds like the guy may have JD's permission.
Quote from: Torchy1) have any of you been approached by a commercial manufacturer to either design or collaborate on a design ?
I've been approached by a few. No big corporations.
Doug
QuoteI've been approached by a few. No big corporations.
I bet if Matchless made the Octal Fatness, it would be a popular amp. :wink:
Doug hit the nail on the head by saying that "when you put something in the public domain it is basically out of your control at that point" - this is basically how I see it. That is why I say that if you don't want someone to steal your stuff, don't ever put it up on the web! (and even if you don't share it and it's on the market, someone will reverse engineer it and put it on the web)
Ouch stop throwing those stones
Sounds like I've upset a lot of people. I have Just sent Toneman/ToneB the below email and think you all need an explaination:
'I am currently trying to find the email in my backups that I received from JD of GGG and my questions on copyrights just before I ordered some circuit boards. I hate rip off merchants as much as you. I thought it would be a nice idea for guitarist/musicians who are interrested in learning electronics to be able to buy a complete KIT of parts AND indepth instructions on how the electronics work, not just a schematic. GGG does not (or as far as I am aware) currently sell complete KITS. For a begginer in electronics the GGG website and information (while excellent) would go right above a begginers head. To be honest the amount of profit after import duty/ parts/ labour/ Ebay/Paypal fees is absolutely minimal and I am having second thoughts about the whole idea. As far as the website goes it is admitedly rough around the edges and short of a bit of in depth, but I have only just started and these things take time. If GGG would like a royalty payment I would be happy to pay but this was not asked for. I am willing to join the furom to explain myself and if it is that big an issue I will forget the whole idea. I have only just started selling KITS and currently have sold just one. The customer was very satisfied and pleased with the level of guidance I gave him when coming up against problems.'
Further more I have in, no way, ever tried to pass off any of GGG circuit boards/Kits as my own work and have always been completely honest about the origins of the design/PCB's hence the fact I did not call the Blue Magic something else like Blue Tone etc. I shall be contacting GGG ASAP and apologising if some kind of mis-understanding has occured. Also the enclosure shown is perfect for stomp boxes as it is just the right size, is anosided so you don't have to paint it if you don't want and contrary to comments has a slide out bottom (or top) that allows easy access. It is a hammond enclosure available from Maplin or Mouser.
Let the stoning begin... :(
Torchy: I do have a strict position on this:
I started lurking here for 1 purpose: keep folks from copying my circuits, and posting my schems.
(I came here first, when g**gle turned up somebody boasting around having the schems of my stuff.
That was about 2 years after this article in Harmony-Central about me was published:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/MusikMesse99/Guitar_Accessories/ ).
(I didn`t have a PC/internet those days...).
1.) at that Frankfurt music show, I have indeed been approached by several commercial manufacturers for the stuff I had there.
2.) There had only ever been 3 names in this biz, up to that date,
I would co-operate with.
Luckily my most favorite one was among those who approached me...
I`m not a representative of that company - just a (booteekish) designer, that has granted them an exclusive license to produce my developments.
This concerns a time-limited licence - after which I intend to market my stuff >unspoiled<.
I regard my stuff being innovative,
and where it concerns a "known effect" (e.g.: "Tremolo"),
it is freshly designed anew from scratch, rather than another modded
soandso-copy.
Besides my first goal being a regular here,
I found this a nice place to talk to similar-minded people,
acquired what I may call a few friends (you know who you are :wink: ),
and regard it a nice "crossword-puzzle-like" passtime, discussing sound/circuit-topographic issues.
Sometimes I personnally do regret to have to be a bit mystical about what I know/think, but I have bills to pay in the future, too.
(and be assured y`all: you`re not helping me too much with that at all -
in fact monitoring the web is a nasty habit like TV and other intellectual drugs...).
IMHO, all the "biggies" have creative, innovative, knowledgable people gathered around them, who got more important things to do/develop,
than checking through DIY-sites (which haven`t existed at all in the hey-days of FX-ing!), and beg/steal/borrow from them...
Quote from: travestydogLet the stoning begin... :(
I don't think there SHOULD be a stoning -- or any bullets, either. This guy deserves credit for checking in here and coming clean. As long as he and JD dealt in good faith, we have no sin here, folks.
Also, note
carefully that he displays grace under pressure...
travestydog-
If you have permission from GGG, that's cool. We just see a lot of this sort of thing - where people are blatantly stealing stuff from contributors here, so it's a touchy subject. I appreciate that you are willing to come to the forum to explain things. 8)
Hey, my bad. I had heard before from JD about someone selling J. Nagy's Blue Magic on Ebay and thought this was the same thing. I apologize for making this something it wasn't.
Quote from: hilbiQuoteOverall I'm not that worried about stuff I've put in the public domain though. I don't post things I don't want to share. I don't have an issue with people wanting to make money....
It is like writing/recording your own cd, bringing it out in public, then someone else copies your cd, writes his name on it and sells it.
...
IMHO: it`s more like: they copy it, write your name on it,
profit from your name/fame, sell it cheaper (no R&D/time costs involved),
and you`re out of biz... :x
Hey, now that things are better around this issue, I heard something about a sweet, beautiful, glorious BSIAB III coming up sometime soon?
:D :D :D :D
Quote from: Paul MarossyQuoteI've been approached by a few. No big corporations.
I bet if Matchless made the Octal Fatness, it would be a popular amp. :wink:
Well, they would have to license that from David Jones. I had nothing to do with it...
BTW, welcome to the forum travestydog. I don't think you'll find too much stone throwing in here. :D
Doug
Quote from: Doug_HBTW, welcome to the forum travestydog. I don't think you'll find too much stone throwing in here. :D
Doug
Stone throwing, no. Crow-eating, maybe.
Sorry about that, glad to have you around.
Welcome travestydog. :D
I'm sorry your introduction was under these circumstances.
I think you are offering a very good thing by buying GGG boards and selling kits. 8) Very cool service IMHO.
The number of questions that come up here about figuring out part numbers and which type of parts to get along with the threads of people who misordered and got the wrong parts, or the parts they wanted but in the wrong (usually surface mount) package, show that without question getting a kit is a great way for lots of people to go. The overhead of ordering parts from multiple sources can make complete kits less expensive in some cases too.
Please do feel free to post an ad in the for sale/trade sub-forum with a link to your kits. Just be sure to mention the GGG source and copyright stuff. ;)
Quote from: Peter SnowbergWelcome travestydog. :D
The number of questions that come up here about figuring out part numbers and which type of parts to get along with the threads of people who misordered and got the wrong parts, or the parts they wanted but in the wrong (usually surface mount) package, show that without question getting a kit is a great way for lots of people to go. The overhead of ordering parts from multiple sources can make complete kits less expensive in some cases too.
:D Yes this is very true. I am in a fortunate position (through my job) as I can source small numbers of parts from a number of sources without having to pay postage and minimum order charges. Also I spent a lot of time sourcing the components as it is often the case that components are discontinued without direct replacements being made available. This is especially the case of older 'classic' circuits. Also capacitors are a problem as the ones you really want to use often won't physically fit on the PCB. The biggest killer is 3PDT foot switches, in the UK these are very hard to come by and where available can cost as much £15 (approx. $30) each. I placed a larg(ish) order with a US company and made a big saving and was able to spread the cost of shipping and duty over the number purchased. I have put quite a lot of effort into the Blue Magic KIT all things considered.
Thank you for your support.
First, Ton, thanks for the explanations, from private conversations with you I understand exactly where you're coming from ;)
Second, welcome to Travestydog, nice gentlemanly replies and a deal of good grace displayed ;)
Lastly, I have never had anything to do with any FX companies so Im just curious as to where they get their ideas from, and wondered if it was all in-house. Its easy to get a jaundiced view of "the biz" when youre as much an outsider as me :oops: I thought some of the innovators on here would have been approached (thanks Doug).
QuoteWell, they would have to license that from David Jones. I had nothing to do with it...
Doh! I forgot about that. OK, then plug in any of the other circuits you designed. :wink:
i'm just glad to see everything sorted out nicely!
Sorry you became the 'ginea pig' here Travestydog. I hope any stones thrown didn't hurt, and think everyone understands to take it back a couple steps.
Good news is your'e pedals look great, and have my support! That the design reputation is growing, and IMO in the right direction is good news indeed !!!
It's cool that BSIAB and Blue Magic are available for consumption among non-diyers. They are fantastic sounding circuits.
I'd like to say we all apoligize for any thrashing about, it DOES show the radar is up, and that when a blip comes on the screen, there IS a reaction to it [fortunately this blip was an anomoly].
Sorry I'm late on this thread. Travestydog is inocent and if this has caused any grief to Jake or Ed, it's my fault. and I apologize profusely.
Currently GEOFEX (R.G.) is the only 3rd party I deal with that has specifically requested that the boards I sell of his design are NOT used for anything other than personal use. R.G. is a smart guy :-) I on the other hand...well, for the boards that I have designed, I don't have any restrictions on what you do with them as long as you buy the actual physical boards from me. This policy is/might be causing some problems now that I sell complete pedal and some are under license. So I may be making some policy changes in the future to cover this. If you have a license agreement with me and you are reading this, I'll be in person contact with you soon.
Travestydog is simply reselling the boards he bought from me and he did contact me before he started doing this.
JD
Dear Travestydog,
As the "originator" of this thread ( no not Schwartzenegger !! )
I thought that I should say "sorry" too.
I simply "found" the Ebay ad and was a little concerned ... thats all :oops:
Some people here have put in a lot of hard work on designs/circuits and I
just wanted to make sure you were "OK" and that proper credits/money were being given to the right people.
Welcome and I hope that your "Kit" idea works out, I think that its a good
and useful service to offer, I wish I had seen it a few years ago myself!!
Regards,
Marty.
Quote from: Doug_H on April 22, 2005, 02:29:29 PM
Quote from: Paul MarossyQuoteI've been approached by a few. No big corporations.
I bet if Matchless made the Octal Fatness, it would be a popular amp. :wink:
Well, they would have to license that from David Jones. I had nothing to do with it...
BTW, welcome to the forum travestydog. I don't think you'll find too much stone throwing in here. :D
Doug
Actually Doug you really helped iron that thing out back in the day!