Just got back from Indianapolis.
We had the first Workhorse Pony in the booth, and got to watch quite a number of different types of players try it out.
I'm a little uncomfortable blowing a horn like this, but the first unit off the line is an incredibly flexible amp. We had steel guitar players, country pickers and metalheads all asking how soon they could get one. I'm a Vox AC30 bigot myself, and I think I'm going to change over. It's funny - I've been so stuck down in the details of the circuitry, final nits and nats of cosmetics, all the minutae of getting something into production that I wasn't thinking about how it would sound. When I heard it, my first remark was "Hey! It sounds really good!!"
Here's the beast in the booth:
(http://www.geofex.com/Pony_at_NAMM.jpg)
The phillips screwdriver to the left of the amp is what we came to call the Workhorse Bias Adjustment Kit. The internal bias lights really seem to work well. I'm normally pretty careful about which tube is which, and usually label them so I don't have to rebias. In the preliminary messing around with the amp, I got downright insensitive to which tube was which or even which pair of tubes I was using because rebiasing was a matter of letting it warm up and then diddling the bias pots til I got two green lights. Biasing is a breeze.
There were a couple of things that seemed to really grab people. The biggest was the 9Vdc output from the amp so you could run a pedalboard with no wall wart at all. I'm guessing that you're going to see 9Vdc out of guitar amps become a standard given the comments.
We got a fair number of techs into the booth who liked the idea that you could replace a pot without even pulling the chassis out of the box, the tube sockets hard-mounted to the chassis, and the ability to access, unsolder and resolder every part in the amp without even removing the knobs from the control panel.
And then a lot of people just liked the sound. When you're about to give birth publicly, you're more than a little concerned that the baby will be ugly. At least I am. I feel less anxious about that now. The treble dispersion of the hubcaps is a little spooky if you are used to beam-y treble. 45 degrees off-axis is pretty much the same treble you get when you're dead on. One of the first players into the booth pointed out that the other nice thing about the hubcaps is that if you have to play on a cramped stage, YOU can hear the amp without either pointing it at your head and putting muffled sound out to the audience or sticking icepicks into the ears of the poor guy in front of you to hear your own treble.
The biggest bug we could find was that it takes this thing a full two minutes by the clock to get warmed up. That's a side effect of using a thermistor on both the AC line primary and the tube heaters to slow down the warmup. We found some thermistors that were perfect for the heaters. The warmup "surge" from the line cord was only slightly bigger than the normal current for the amp. But it takes some time to get fully up to speed.
There's so much involved in being a commercial success that is not related to the actual performance of any amp that I'm fully aware that it might not turn out to be a world beater. But I'm very happy with the way it's turned out.
If anyone's offended at this post, I'll take it down. But we had a lot of interest earlier, and I thought a number of you would like to see it.
2 minutes to warm up doesn't seem much of a problem to me or, I would guess, anyone who is used to valve amps.
BTW is the hub cap patented by anyone?
Congratulations! 8) It must feel good and gratifying to get that response from players and techs alike. I hope it takes off, and doesn't come down. :) I still think people are going to like the grill after a slight visual warm-up. I think they'll definately like it after they play it. It'll be copied soon enough, no doubt.
So as not to clog up this thread, I posted a couple of questions on the old thread.
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?p=249939#249939
I know that plenty of people go to turn their amps on, wait for a little bit and chat or have some popcorn, then start playing. I do sometimes, it's like your soldering iron, so the 2 minute thing doesn't sound too bad to me.
-Colin
Who will be the first one to buy it, open , disasemble, make a schematic, pcb and let us handmade it for ourselves ?
Hehehehe just kidding , congracts! Some ideas are really great, that 9v one, .... is for sure what a lot of people, when most studying at home, would like to have ... less stuff to turn on before playing ...
And yeah ... I think that with some visual improvement and time this thing will be turned on at a lot of places ....
Good luck!
Sorry for my bad english,
Gabriel
Congratulations, The 9vlt supply was an excellent idea. I would love to hear some sound samples though. I will definitely have to save my change as I am long overdue for an new amp. Now if you can pick some endorsements like maybe Eric Johnson you would be in business. What were some of the best sounding pedals that stood out from the norm?
Given the sheer volume of things you have an unrestricted and unconditional right to toot your horn about, tooting it once, modestly, is a privilege you have more than earned, buddy. It pleases me to no end to know that your leap of faith at this point in your career has been rewarded spiritually, if not tangibly. Mazeltov.
Of course, with so much practicality built in, you know who's going to come looking for you, eh? Hartley Peavey.
R.G.,
Will you and your amp(s) attend Winter NAMM in Anaheim? We're exhibitors in the recording/keyboard (geek) area at that show and I'd like to come meet you.
Hi. You can tell the baby by the parents, so I'm sure that everyone on the forum can imagine how good it sounds, how well it's constructed, and the fact it has cool tricks like varistors in the innards.
Congrats on a beatiful baby, and best wishes for parenthood!!
QuoteBTW is the hub cap patented by anyone?
It will be when the patent office gets off its duff. The paperwork is in and it's pending.
QuoteWho will be the first one to buy it, open , disasemble, make a schematic, pcb and let us handmade it for ourselves ?
While we're not just going to publish schematics, it's not that mysterious. The circuitry inside is straightforward, and fairly easy to trace. The main PCB is 16.5" by 5.75", though, and the grounding is immaculate (if I do say so myself), so that's going to be one expensive handmade PCB.
We went a decidedly low-tech route. There are no super secret circuits and no magic parts hand crafted fifty years ago by Icelandic virgins on the night of a summer's full moon.
But the PCB stock is double the usual thickness, and the PCB copper is *three* times the normal thickness. The board is stiffened by two custom stamped steel stiffeners that run the whole length of the board so that vibration can't wiggle the solder points loose. The chassis has a removable back plate so that every single solder joint can be reworked without removing the PCB from the chassis. The cabinet is 3/4" (18mm) hardwood plywood, finger jointed and glued at outer corners, and the speaker baffle is also 3/4" ply, glued into a routed groove in the outer shell. All the controls, jacks, switches, etc are on short wire leads from the PCB so that you can break them off the outside of the chassis if you like, but it has no effect on the PCB at all.
Like the English castle lawns, you get them smooth and green by rolling them for 200 years.
QuoteI would love to hear some sound samples though.
Yeah, I'm trying to get some of those made up. We're furiously trying to make sure the thing is reproduceable and get the 60W versions here as well, but the samples will happen.
QuoteWhat were some of the best sounding pedals that stood out from the norm?
We didn't get a chance to do a broad spectrum of pedals. That red Jeckyll and Hyde in the picture makes the amp do a very wide swath of sound, however, from soft overdrive to solid metal to hyperdrive when you have both channels on, and each amp comes with a Jeckyll and Hyde in the amp box with it. We thought that a single channel, non-overdrive, non-master-volume, non-distortion-preamp amplifier might be a tad dull, so the J&H is packed in the shipping carton with the amp to give channels two through four.
QuoteOf course, with so much practicality built in, you know who's going to come looking for you, eh? Hartley Peavey.
Oh. It hadn't occurred to me that those guys with the "HP" on their hats weren't from Hewlett Packard...
8-)
QuoteWill you and your amp(s) attend Winter NAMM in Anaheim?
If our plans hold at all, yes, we'll be there with the full complement of Workhorses.
You guys are great - thank you. I'll pester the boss to get some sound samples made up.
congrats, RG! 8^)
Good Luck !
Great!!
Do you have plans to export one or two to Argentina someday?
Miguel
Nery nice, in it's niceness :wink:
B.
QuoteThe circuitry inside is straightforward... and the grounding is immaculate
Perfect. I always go for the amps with less "magic" knobs on them. The best ones are straightforward. Congratulations.
8)
AL
If anyone deserves commercial success with this then you do :D
Questions :-
1. Website for further info ?
2. Pricing ?
3. UK/European Distributor ?
Im in the market for a versatile gigging amp to replace one of my venerable AC30s (the girls are tired and expensive to insure). This looks about perfect ... and like the man said, its parenthood is impeccable :wink:
{Edit} Sorry if the q's have been answered elsewhere but Im still kinda new round here. :oops:
Quote from: R.G.There are no super secret circuits and no magic parts hand crafted fifty years ago by Icelandic virgins on the night of a summer's full moon.
Who cares? as long as it sounds like it is full of magic parts hand crafted....
Congratulations R.G.!
Doug
Congratulations, R.G. I can't wait to try one of these out myself.
Congratulations !
I hope it does very well for you :D
( I LOVE the look BTW )
Marty.
Congrats! ... Hope I get to check one of these out.
I'd love to hear it!
No Icelandic virgins? Sheesh, man, you only get one chance to get it right, y'know! :)
In my book, simple is good; I like amps with a knob for volume and a second one for tone (OK, treble & bass is ok, too). Added "flexibility"=compromise, and exotic components=potential for failure. So your approach is A-OK by me, and I love the genuine innovations, the built-in treble disperser and 9VDC supply, that actually represent a meaningful useability improvement for a gigging player.
Congrats & best of luck, and if I ever do look for a new (i.e. less than 30 years old) amp to buy, you will be my first stop. :)
Ben
Very cool RG! Would it be viable to produce a 2X12 *hubcap* speaker cab? (Maybe one with those spinners on it for a leslie effect :wink: ). The treble dispersal properties sound very useful, and the hubcaps look a lot nicer than the 12" cardboard disc I sometimes place between the speakers with a *beam-y* 2X12.
Good Luck!
Kerry M
Congrats R.G.! It is nice to see some real features being added to amplifiers instead of just hype.
Andrew
Quote from: R.G.There were a couple of things that seemed to really grab people. The biggest was the 9Vdc output from the amp so you could run a pedalboard with no wall wart at all. I'm guessing that you're going to see 9Vdc out of guitar amps become a standard given the comments.
Congrats R.G.!!!!
i have a buddy who had a custom amp made with a 12v car cigarette lighter built in and it had me thinking along the lines of what you have already done. good luck and hope to play one someday.
peace,
waldo
Thanks again guys!
QuoteWould it be viable to produce a 2X12 *hubcap* speaker cab?
Extension speakers are in the works if we sell enough speakers. It's certainly technically viable. The external speaker jack includes a switch to switch taps on the OT from 8 (or 4 in the case of the 2x12) to 4 ohms (or 2 ohms, same case) when you plug in an external.
QuoteDo you have plans to export one or two to Argentina someday?
We plan to ship them almost anywhere a dealer will buy them. We had a number of European dealers interested at NAMM, but I don't recall anyone from Argentina, although the summer NAMM is a decidedly smaller show than the January one. Same comments as below - if you can get your local dealer interested, have them call.
Quote1. Website for further info ?
2. Pricing ?
3. UK/European Distributor ?
The info is at //www.visualsound.net. List price on a Pony is US$775, but as we all know, street price is always less than that. We're selling them direct to dealers instead of running a distributor/dealer. It keeps the markups down. If you want them to come to your local dealer, have the dealer contact the Visual Sound office for the business arrangements. Have him ask for Steve Mikesell.
The sound clips are in the works.
Good Luck R.G.!
I really like the idea of this amp. I really like my amp but it just doesnt go well with a lot of effects. Its more of a metal amp. And thats why I like it but i need something else for all the zillion effects I build.
nice! just to add my wishes of success on your great amp - you deserve it!
Looks much better than the image you posted a while ago. Very nice!
Really nice R.G. !!!
Congrats man, cant wait to try one out.
Functional and "bling" to boot.
Any chance of a bass amp in the works?
Would love to see what features you could dream up.
Nice looking amp!
Do they have an Effects Loop? Do they sell them direct?
QuoteNice looking amp!
Thank you!
QuoteDo they have an Effects Loop?
No, there's no effects loop. We thought about that, and decided against it. Effects loops have a few built-in problems. They're at the wrong voltage level for effects, so you have to pad them down to not overload the effects, then amplify them back up for the right level at the power amp. We were trying to make an amp that's effects-friendly right out at the input - so no effects loop.
QuoteDo they sell them direct?
No, but almost any dealer that wants to can get them. The minimum buy is not too rough on dealers, unlike some bigger outfits.
This is really really cool RG
I really like the hubcap scenario, exactly what's needed to stand out in a crowded market + I have enjoyed the sound of my speakers with cardboard beamblockers taped to the grille cloth , works great.
The overall concept is excellent, and you spent the resources on the right stuff, going for ease of service and durability.
Good luck!
-Eric
thermistors. great idea. that´s the schematic I want to see!!! :D
do you put the termistor near the tubes? and use a relay for turn on the b+ supply? any tips on thermistor caracteristic?
the hub is a great idea . is frustrating eq and then put the mic and get a different sound. I have a pair of too directional speakers.
do you make some test recording the amp with the hub?
congratulations
12afael
So glad someone *gets it*. K.I.S.S. And hopefully ears will mature...and hear beyond digital models...discerne what is really important (tone, easy tube bias, accessability)...and come to you....as they should! I'm dyin to hear one in person. Thanks for a wise & thoughtful design!
Awesome, RG!
I think the "real" amp looks much better to me than the concept picture you showed us earlier- very cool!
Regan
Any good news for Christmas?
RG,
One concern about the hub cap is that you'll leave the speaker wide open to getting damaged. Having two kids and 4 cats would make me uncomfortable not having a "hub cap cover" for storage purposes. Having said that, it looks great and wish you the best. What price range will we be looking at ?
Chris
W-O-W
Great look, and intriguing story on the sound ;). Finally there is again something that looks awasome without missing the mark.
I'll be popping over to Haarguitars as soon as he has one, dragging my guitarist along by the scruff of his neck.
I've been asked to give some advise on the pedal selection for a shop, rest assured VisualSound is in there (already decided on that) but I'll pester him for the amps as well.
If they sound anything as good as they look (and if you'll trade in your trusty AC30...dang!), wow.
Bassamps would be heartedly welcomed ;)
That bias circuit is a wonderful idea! I've tinkered with something like this a bit, but never got it to a satisfactory level - *curious*
Kudos on the construction details too. Wonderful to finally see something designed around maintanance!
Best of luck with this endeavour!
*edit*: read the other thread - curiosity largely satisfied. Now on to the tone-test! ;)
a 30W class A - yup, cost is a valid argument. An 5-10W class A at the flick of a switch though...
Cool! :icon_cool:
Brilliant RG! Cheers!
I also had a thought about the sort of exposed speakers - I can just see my 2-year old son poking a hole in the speaker with something... :icon_eek:
Paul,
I just bought two Tone Tubbies and I'm scared to death that the cats are going to get into the open back of of my Sunn cab. I stuff all kinds of crap between the wall and the opening to keep pests out :icon_lol:
Chris
I thought I could get by without grilles.
I found out grilles are much less expensive than speakers, which don't resist being kneed one bit....he was just being helpful :icon_sad:.
Congrats RG, hopefully I
ll see you at NAMM in Anaheim.
Jered
Looks great RG!!!! All the best with your business venture!!!!!!!!!!
Peace!
Arn ac.