I have had the germanium transistor for the Rangmaster from Small Bear for a good long time. Since I have this little tube amp now, I thought I'd give it a whirl. There's not much to it, and basically I just built it and stuck the transistor in there. Steve had biased it using the resistor values specified by R.G. I'm not sure which version I built, because the schematic didn't have a site for it, but I believe it used 25uf caps instead of the 50s, but the basic circuit was the same as GEOs. I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to sound like, but I didn't get anything out of it that sounded remotely like Iomi, or Brian May. To me, it reminded me more of "What I like About You" by the Romantics. The treble was definitely boosted, and there was some slight distortion going on there with certain notes. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this or not, but there is a very low amplitude intermodulation distortion going on with this effect. It's not like it overwhelms the tone or anything, but it is there in the background, especially at lower volumes. I wasn't expecting that, and I'd never heard anyone mention it before. So far,I don't see what the hype was about, but maybe I will after I play around with it for awhile.
MY GOD!
The germanium nazis are going to eat you for breakfast!
:icon_biggrin:
I havent built one yet. I did build an NPN fuzz face, as soon as a guitarist friend heard it, he HAD to buy it.... :icon_rolleyes:
Maybe you have temp stability probs? try the germ diode trick...did you check the gain/leakage of the xtsr?
I really should build one....
what kind of tube amp is it? <<<<<<RM sound different w/ every tube amp and guitar.Â
Quotelow amplitude intermodulation distortion
What do you mean by the above quote?
What Ge tranny from smallbear is it? <<<<<<I tried most of them and settled on the OC44 as the best Ge tranny.
What kind of guitar are you using?
What value input cap and boost pot did you use?
What is the voltage reading on the collector of the transistor? (put red probe on ground and black probe on collector of tranny. :icon_wink:)
 :)
My rangemasters seem to like small tube amps and either a tube preamp or an orange squeezer for compression and boost. If you're using it into a solid state amp you're missing out on some tasty tones.
No, I didn't measure anything, since Steve is supposed to have taken care of it, but I will eventually sub out some other germs in there just to see if there's a major difference. I got a bunch of Russian germanium PNPs coming, so I'll probably build myself a testerto see what going on with them. It may end up that I'm not a big germanium fan, it's hard to tell. I have built the Easy Face, which is a hybrid, and I like the tone of it, but I'm not overly wild about it either. It may be that they're too subtle for my taste, but I'm going to try several germanium effects before I give up on them, especially the Mark II Tone Bender. So far, just for general playing, it's hard to beat the Si Tone Bender MKII, the Whisker Biscuit, and the Tripple Fuzz. The germanium thing is sort of uncharted territory for me, and they're finicky. With Pete's Darlington concept, and Brett's piggybacking of germaniums, I ought to be able to come up with something I like, that has the wooly "germ sound" we all know and love. I will order Steve's Tone Bender set to start with, to give it my best shot.
Well formerMember1, I kind of built this thing, and went to work, which is where I'm at now. I may get a chance to answer those questions before I go to work tomorrow. I have the little Epihone Galaxie 10 I just bought, and a Mexican Fat Strat. One thing I can answer though is the intermodulation distortion. It's the kind of distortion you usually get on up octaves that gives you the mathmatical equivilent of the note you are currently playing. It's not something that sounds like a clanging bell the whole time you're playing, but it always there in the background at a very low volume. The little tube amp I just bought, is why I'm finally experimenting with germaniums to start with. Most people agree that germanium devices and solid state amps don't get along. I'm sure I can tailor it for what I'm playing through, but just building it and playing it per the schematic didn't thrill me too much. If it's sounding correct, what song should it sound the most like?
The classic answer for me was always Clapton on the old John Mayall's Bluesbreakers album. What is the hFe on the tranny? Is it leaky?
Well Rangemasters are really finnicky. Everybody says how the RM sounds great with a humbucker equipped guitar(les paul), and not very good with single coils (strats). I am sure this is true, but in my experience the RM i built sounds the best with my Jimi Hendrix strat clone i built.
If i use the RM with the strat into a stock Marshall TSL602 amp, it sounds ok, kinda like a TS9 set with the drive on full, tone on 3:00 and level on 9:00 to 12:00, depending on how high the master volume on the Marshall is turned up to. Not quite as good as a TS9 though, :icon_wink:
BUT, if i use the RM with a Kay 5 watt amp from 1962, with the volume of amp set on full and the tone knob on the amp set to 4.
In standard tuning it sounds very close to Cream's Sunshine of your Love, Crossroads, Spoonful, Strange Brew etc...
Using the Neck pickup, and using the volume on guitar and tone on guitar to control sound.
In 1/2 step down tuning, it sounds really really close to All Along the Watchtower, Little Wing, If 6 was 9, Red House, Freedom, 1983...A Merman i should turn to be, casltles made of sand. Actaully closer then any fuzzface's ive tried including the Fulltone 69. I mostly use the neck/middle pickup for little wing, and if 6 was 9, and the neck pickup for watchtower's lead and intro parts and when he is singing i switch to the neck/middle pickup for those lead/rhythym fills he adds.
I really need to add the Ge temp stabilizer diode (1N34A) becuase some days the pedal sounds punchy, and trebley,(like a Marshall Super Lead) and other days it is warmer sounding, I like the trebly sound better though,
As far as the slight octave sounds, That is part of the RM sound, , but it seems like you have more of that then there is supposed to be. Did you read the Geofx's article on the Rangemaster?
I actually had to add (2) 3.6K resistors in series with the top lug of the boost pot in order to increase the gain, anymore resistance and the pedal was too heavy and any less and the pedal was too thin,
I like the RM biased at 7.00Volts the best, but as your battery ages or if you switch power supplies, it will vary. At 6.50volts and higher it will sound flatter and less harsh, more laid back, and when you get to 7.00volts it is great sounding, then at higher voltages and it gets that gatey sound.
That is my exp. anyway. :icon_wink:
PS:I built mine the terminal strip way, never tried the PC board way, but there is probably only a slight difference in sound, if any.
MY tranny was a OC44 73hfe, NO other tranny sounded as good as the OC44 to me. I would like to try some AC128's and NKT275 but could never find any.
after i get my next two projects finished(wah and fuzz) i am gonna post some sound clips) :icon_wink:
The one thing to keep in mind is the classic Rangemaster sounds are from driving your amp into clipping, with a little bit of help from the RMs slight clipping. So it really relies on the character of the amps overdrive. If you have your amp set for a cleanish *fender-y* sound, then kicking in the RM will give much different results than an amp dialed for a darker, overdriven marshall-y sound. However, you did not mention if you checked the actual voltages on the collector. For whatever reason, the resistor values that came with the Ge I got from smallbear did not provide the proper bias. Make sure it is reading right around 7v. The initial sound I got was a real transistor radio trebly sound, and the collector was reading much higher than it should. Be sure to experiment with the input cap as well. It really determines the *voice* of the circuit, once you get it dialed in. Just alligator clip a cap in parallel with the input cap, and check out the effect of different values.
Kerry M
I must have missed the 1n34 mod for temperature stabilization. ??? I do have a couple of salvaged germs that had copper strips wrapped around them for heat sinks. They have a piece that sticks out on top, like a copper flag. Pretty neat idea. I have a few untested OC44s to try out in this. What I'm getting now could be a variety of things. On the humbucker bridge pickup, it's real bright and almost piercing. It cuts real well, and has just a hint of crunch, on the single coil neck pick up, it sounds a little muddy and lifeless. Thanks for the info. I will read the Geo article clear through. I've only read bits and pieces. Bwanasonic I'll let you guys know what I come up with sometime the middle of the week. I haven't checked the voltages, but I will. The little Epi is pretty bright though, no matter how you adjust it.
QuoteSteve had biased it using the resistor values specified by R.G.
What does this mean? Doesn't Steve give you resistor values to use with the transistor? I'm just guessing but either Steve must provide the resistor values to bias it or you still need to bias the circuit for that transistor AFAIK.
Quote from: formerMember1 on October 03, 2005, 09:59:28 PM
I really need to add the Ge temp stabilizer diode (1N34A) becuase some days the pedal sounds punchy, and trebley,(like a Marshall Super Lead) and other days it is warmer sounding, I like the trebly sound better though,
What is the Ge temp stabilizer diode mod? Will this work in a Fuzz Face?
Rangemasters are a funny thing, in gereral I dont like the "ear popping" high end
boost that they produce.
I'm sure they were only made to help a very "dark" amp have some treble !!
They work quite well on my little Matamp C7, which is quite dark.
On the classic 30 .... !!!  no way, unless you roll out all the amps top end !
I have a nice "Rangeblaster" and have just built Pete's RangePig, which I like
a lot, though both have cap changes to be a bit more "full range"
I would agree that they sound best when driven by a nice fat humbucker sound.
Jeff, if your not diggin' the tone, try using 47n I/O caps and see if that helps,
there will still be all the character and some top end, but it wont "cut off your ears"
quite as much !!
Marty.
Yes Aron, Steve did supply me with the values, and told me which ones on the GEO schematic that he was referring to. The values he gave me must have came out to be the ones that the schematic already had, and didn't need adjusted. Bwanasonic said that his didn't bias correctly. I will check mine to see if it did come out in the correct range. As of now though, it's giving me plenty of treble, and there is no gating at all, so I figured it's probably working OK. I feel a lot of it is my amp, because it's very clean, and has a tendency to head toward the treble side to start with. I would guess the input cap will need adjusted to work with the little amp. I will also try it with the hybrid Tube Driver 70 to see what it does. I just don't feel that Steve is sending out untested germanium transistors. Germaniums jusy naturally suck for what we do! Hey Marty, I saw you popped in. Did you like the Range Pig better than the standard Rangemaster?
QuoteThe values he gave me must have came out to be the ones that the schematic already had, and didn't need adjusted.
Ahh OK, that makes sense. It's probably working correctly.
Quote from: jmusser on October 04, 2005, 04:01:51 AM
Hey Marty, I saw you popped in. Did you like the Range Pig better than the standard Rangemaster?
Yes, I love it !!
For whatever reason, it just sounds better with my gear :D
Marty.
The weird thing about the Rangemaster I have found is I sort of have to have it working "against" the amp a little to get it to sound sweet. I have to roll down the treble on my Octal Fatness to keep it smooth when I crank the gain on it in general. So I set it up like that but keep the amp gain lower and let the Rangemaster push it into distortion when I use it (although the amp is breaking up a little). Also, I don't allow any buffering in my signal path - at all - it needs the signal loading to sound smooth. With this setup and the RM at 50% I get "Beano" and at 100% it's more of a "British" rock sound a la May and etc.
Using it with a bright sounding amp is less than uninteresting, for me. I've heard clips of them from builders on the net plugged into bright Fenders and I confess I don't get it... I'm with Marty, I believe they were originally used to help the darker British amps come to life. It's the way they make them come to life that is so cool & unique. So you kind of have to play that game with your amp IMO.
Doug
Don't forget the "bright" channel on the plexi heads isn't that good for RM's too. It is treble boost on its own.
Quote from: jmusser on October 03, 2005, 08:57:10 PM
It may end up that I'm not a big germanium fan
That's it with me. I've built many Rangemasters, mostly all with silicon transistors. The germanium ones just sounded weak....I've been going for a nice Rory Gallagher tone that's pretty easy to create with a nice high gain silicon transistor in there!
I built the RM with AC128 and 0.1 input cap (slightly bigger than original). It is superb in being what it is: grainy mid-treble boost direct connect to guitar of course. Like playing through a vinyl disc without the noise and cracks...hmmm contradiction? ;-) I don't care it is not +100dB. +20dB will do fine! I DO like it on SS amps, as long as I modded them to smoother drive ;-). I mean: I haven't completed any tube amp yet. It will be catharsis when I connect the Germ to the plexi...
Yeah, Si sounds good too, I've played around with that. Also, the collector voltage doesn't have to be -7v. It sounds good there for a particular sound, but I've moved the bias point around and found a lot of good sounds & textures at different settings. I should have installed a "bias knob" on the one I built, but I was lazy and re-used a pre-drilled one-knob chassis I had.
Doug
I have built three RM's s far and each sounded pretty good to my ears. I used Dragonfly's layout, but used the componants that RG suggested in his "How to Build" file. I have not biased any of the pedals as per the instructions, but they all seemed to work and sound fine. There are two things that I did notice with the pedal and build. 1. The control pot as per Dragonfly's layout seems to get the pot to work backwards. I mean the pot fully counter clockwise has the effect full on, clockwise less effect. Easy fix, just swap the two outer wires on the pot. 2. The pedal seems not to track that well. Might be because I have not biased the pot, but there is a definately a lag from my attack on the string til the sound comes out my Super Lead. This does not really bother me and actually sounds pretty cool because the lag is not sudden but more of a swelling of the signal.
Someone mentioned above that a RM does not sound good going into the Bright channel of a Super Lead. I have to somewhat agree, On lower volumes yes it does not work too well as the bright cap in the amp tends to boost the treble signal, but where these amps like to be run at( wide open), the difference between the Bright and Normal channel is negligible. The RM's effect is still there on either channel of the amp. In use I can easily nail a vintage Judas Priest-like tone. Depending on the channel I use I'm talking Screaming For Vengence and earlier. It is all in the attack of the pick, and the amount of effect dialed in. Seems that running the RM into the Bright Channel to get the more Metal type tones it works best to dial the effect back a bit and hit the strings harder. To get that early Vintage Priest type tone, use the Normal channel and dial in more effect and hit the strings a little less.
what if you mix the channels with a patch cord?
Didn't clapton in cream use a RM through a super lead? or was that a fuzz? (sounds more like a RM too me)
I love super leads too. :icon_wink:
Quote from: JCM1959 on October 04, 2005, 08:04:11 PM
The pedal seems not to track that well. Might be because I have not biased the pot, but there is a definately a lag from my attack on the string til the sound comes out my Super Lead.
Hmm, can't say I ever noticed that behavior?! Nope, just plugged mine in and listened for anything like it. You might want to give it a tweak.
Another general RM thing I wanted to point out is to make sure you check out the tones you get by rolling off the guitar's tone control, as well as using the neck pickup. What would sound like an unusably dark and wooly tone with the RM bypassed, transforms into ballsy *rawk* tone.
Kerry M
QuoteAnother general RM thing I wanted to point out is to make sure you check out the tones you get by rolling off the guitar's tone control, as well as using the neck pickup. What would sound like an unusably dark and wooly tone with the RM bypassed, transforms into ballsy *rawk* tone.
Same Here!! ;D
I've been messing with the Easy Drive (read above), so I haven't messed with the Rangemaster. The Small Bear transistor is a B178N.
Another general RM thing I wanted to point out is to make sure you check out the tones you get by rolling off the guitar's tone control
This certainly applies to my RM efforts, to the point that an adjustable pregain seems like a worthwhile mod.
Pregain tested by guitar vol rolloff is a good idea to check out on many to most of my circuits may sound better with the guitar less than full on.