http://www.newsensor.com/releases/MoscowTimes_VacuumTubes_20051208.pdf
wow... better start buying tubes all over the place. buy all you need for your lifetime... :(
While I'm not really heavily into Sovtek tubes, this is horror indeed. Let's hope these unsavoury ways of doing "business" don't hold up, without Mr. Matthews getting forced out.
Any news of a more recent date anyone?
Man, that guy has a penchant for attracting the unwanted attention of thugs, doesn't he! Well, MM has certainly got a fair-sized set of cojones on him, and if anyone can ride this out, he can. Let's all hope for the best--for Matthews, who deserves better, and for us. Personally, I have been happier with JJs lately, but a marketplace of one is not a good thing.
Ben N
The oligapoly of vacumm tubes has bugged me for a long time.
This is a further blow to price conscientious guitarists. Even the news of possible closure of one of the main manufacturers of tubes is set to push price tubes up (given the fickleness of supposed "free markets"). Personally I buy N.O.S mullards cheaply from a reliable source in Bulgaria. However the price of tube guitar amps is sure to increase from their already astronomical high (much like oil prices).
However, IF MM was to get enough cash to relocate (not likely) it would mean more production and possibly cheaper tubes (perhaps chinese factory?). I have bought sovtek tubes, aswell as EH tubes, not much difference to my ears.
The thing is with one less competitor in the market it can only mean an increase in prices for tubes. This will push contemporary aswell as vintage tube amp prices up as the manufacturers pass their production cost onto the consumer and "vintage" prices will increase accordingly "If they are asking THAT much for a current version, my purpleface croonder must be worth much more".
Bad news for manufacturers, bad news for consumers. Bad news for EH. Good news for russian monopolists.
:'( :'(
:icon_cry:
hmm. i am slightly afraid. i hope Mike gets this sorted out quickly.
I hope this is just a: "paper is patient" issue by then...
another serious threat is the RoHS thing...
Quote from: puretube on December 16, 2005, 04:40:20 AM
I hope this is just a: "paper is patient" issue by then...
another serious threat is the RoHS thing...
really?
What would be lost? I really haven't got a view on this.
Damn! ... hope this gets fixed, I'm gonna pick some more tubes up today, just in case!
Anyone feel like building some machines and starting to produce valves? I know I do.
Is there a webpage or a book about valve production and the materials and devices needed? I'm just interested about what is involved in the process. Something like the link about germanium transistors that was posted a month or two ago. I am aware that the machines and production are extremely costful but knowledge can't hurt.
I believe that this, along with germanium transistors is a good area to learn for the future, as the ol' factories are being shut down, freeing the market for new, guitar specialised tube companies. I will be there, even if it would be as a factory slave in Ton's company. Â ;)
Hmm, if I could convince the goverment of Estonia to subsidise the building of a new factory... I'm gonna need some hostages first. :D
-----------
Jimbo
I believe that this, along with germanium transistors is a good area to learn for the future.
I was wondering about the Mesa Ge's [earli production technique, soon dumped after 'planar' technology arose]. I found a batch of mesa', and they are smooth in the devices [BMP, TB, FF] in which the 7 reside.
Found in old Rec./Amp thing, gutted for tube chassis, these 2sb176's crossreffed to NTE...'Mesa", I looked up Mesa>google> and found a really great 'history of IC's' page, pictures of earlie Ge techs were seen, looked like they were doin' 'em up on a table, Ge chip gets leads solder-attached, then the thing gets doped [I guess ITCase is synonamous with dipped?], one side in +charged Si ion bath, other in -charged Si substance.
Looked like they had jigged-out precision cutting/tooling machinery [look on :icon_rolleyes:bay...lol], and magnifying lenses etc.
Whether the clean raw Germanium pieces [they were using chunks of top grade Ge...NTE's IIUC are produced from Ge, crushed to dust, purified, bound to wafer shape for base].
Tubes, you got all kinda things to think about, such as getting that hardware inside a glass vacuum, [metal in/air out], sealing the pins, getting the raw ingredients processed, I feel pretty secure in saying had the Military found transistors first, tubes may well never have beeen discovered. There are some rather large hurdles to overcome, requiring specialized team efforts.
If my theory is correct, guitar players and audio Hi Fi hounds are the last remaining species of tube lovers.
Perhaps a scare such as this is enough to cause market watchers/controllers to notice a sudden rise in tube 'popularity' spurring another run of tubes production.
This story has been floating around the amp forums for a week or so. It's too bad...
I'm glad I like JJ's. I'll miss the EH EL34 though. That's a nice tube...
Doug
I read this a few weeks ago too. I'm with Doug - I prefer JJ's - but this is still some pretty bad news. They do fill a nitch in the market and losing them would be a big blow. I also own a few Ampegs and they make the only repro 7868. Ouch !!
AL
This just sucks. I like the EH12AX7's. I hope it gets resolved. With the help of the U.S. Embassy and the shareholders, I think it will.
Random thoughts about tube manufacturing:
The oddity about capitalism is that if enough people want something, the market produces it.
Tubes may get expensive, but at some price, there will always be a 12AX7. Whether anyone will pay that price is up for question, but it does work that way.
I'm guessing that the tricks to improve tube life will get more popular.
It keeps striking me that producing an exact replica of a 12AX7 or 6L6 is not all that onerous. It seems difficult only because no one has mucked with that technology much in the last half century. Putting several million MOSFETs onto ten nanoacres of silicon wafer is much more difficult. What is missing is that no one will invest the capital expense into the equipment to mass produce these things. All of the tube factories that exist are leftovers.
I think that one could produce incredibly good tubes with today's better knowledge of materials and processing by stepping outside the older box of tube making. Grids, for instance, don't have to be spirals of incredibly fine wire. They could be photo etched grids of holes in a fine metal mesh. That's much more rugged mechanically, and probably less microphonic. The beam forming electrodes in power beam tubes like the 6L6 were the result of such a sideways step, avoiding the issues with a spiral grid in the standard pentode.
The real question is in the economics.
A few things to note, based on the article alone:
1) The pressure is not being placed on Mr. Matthews to close down tube manufacture. Rather the pressure is to take a highly profitable and booming business an sell it, under duress, at an unreasonably low price...presumably to someone else who thinks they can corner the market on tubes and make a fortune. If anything, the threat is to the viability of E-H in particular, and reasonably priced tubes in general. Of course, whether any forcible takeover of the facility would result in tubes of similar standards being produced is a whole other matter. In the history of business, lots of companies have taken over other companies and tanked quickly. It happens. I hope it doesn't happen here.
2) Nothing has happened YET, that we know of. I don't have a lot of confidence in the Russian legal system and have some misgivings about the legality of some business practices in contemporary Russia, though.
3) Tube manufacture these days is confined to very few facilities. The same way that people who buy any of a variety of television and monitors have little or no idea that all the competing brands of interest to them may have had their picture tubes fabricated in the same facility by the same producer, many of the tastes that people have in tubes may well be based on differences between sets of tubes selected and branded by a given company but MADE at this same facility. In other words, the notion that thank-goodness-I-can-use-other-brands-besides-E-H-or-Sovtek may be a false notion. It may well be that the "other" tubes you love are made to some spec in the same damn factory, and that any change in ownership or manufacturing quality control or output WILL affect you.
For the time being, though, don't worry about getting all nostalgic about your favourite tube. Worry about the 830 people at the facility who might get screwed out of work by ruthless "businessmen" (obviously, I think another word should be substituted there), and worry about the many folks working for Mike in the U.S. and elsewhere if the worst case scenario costs him as much as I think it could cost him.
Incidentally, we need to keep remembering that one of the reasons why the majority of such facilities are located in the countries they are located in is because of the pitiful (though some may substitute "less restrictive") environmental controls and requirements there. As has been articulated by many folks in recent years, if they could build a tube in the continental U.S. for what it costs them to maintain a factory overseas in the absence of strict environmental regulations, they would do so.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on December 16, 2005, 10:59:47 AM
It may well be that the "other" tubes you love are made to some spec in the same damn factory, and that any change in ownership or manufacturing quality control or output WILL affect you.
JJ's are made in the old Tesla factory in the Slovak Republic.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on December 16, 2005, 10:59:47 AM
For the time being, though, don't worry about getting all nostalgic about your favourite tube. Worry about the 830 people at the facility who might get screwed out of work by ruthless "businessmen" (obviously, I think another word should be substituted there), and worry about the many folks working for Mike in the U.S. and elsewhere if the worst case scenario costs him as much as I think it could cost him.
I agree and I certainly don't mean to minimalize the impact on the employees by this kind of thuglike behavior. It's pretty disgusting, actually. However, a lot of the reaction has come from the perspective of how it affects tube availability and price. So I was addressing that aspect.
I contend that there are other alternatives and IMO that with the demand, new avenues of production will eventually open. The sky is not falling. Yet...
Quote from: Mark Hammer on December 16, 2005, 10:59:47 AM
Incidentally, we need to keep remembering that one of the reasons why the majority of such facilities are located in the countries they are located in is because of the pitiful (though some may substitute "less restrictive") environmental controls and requirements there. As has been articulated by many folks in recent years, if they could build a tube in the continental U.S. for what it costs them to maintain a factory overseas in the absence of strict environmental regulations, they would do so.
Another issue is the knowledge gap. A lot of the people who used to build tubes aren't around anymore. However, I agree that environmental restrictions are probably a bigger stumbling block to starting tube manufacturing in the U.S.
Doug
They better not go after my Svetlanas (SEDs)!!!
Andrew
Quote from: The Tone God on December 16, 2005, 01:41:18 PM
They better not go after my Svetlanas (SEDs)!!!
Andrew
No doubt.
In Mike I trust !
Quote from: R.G. on December 16, 2005, 10:51:18 AM
The real question is in the economics.
The way I understand it (WRT tube manufacturing) is that the process involves toxic chemicals much like the plating industry uses. I live in California and my wife used to work for a diecast/plating company (they used to make the zinc cast hot wheels). The chemicals involved mean that a company like that could never be 'started' today. They exist only because they existed back in the 50's and 60's when regulations weren't so stiff and they are grandfathered in. Since most tube manufacturing plants have been shutdown, it is pretty much impossible to 'start' a new one. So, that is why the intense interest in the plants that still exist with the fairly new interest in tube amplification. Sure they can probably come up with a 'better' way of making a tube but it wil never have that special 'mojo' the old tubes have!
--john
It could be done. It would take someone with the balls to stand huge loses at first, but it could be done by a company in the US with factories in maybe Mexico and I am somewhat seriously looking into it.pl
Well, i hope it wont happen to jj's factory ! :-[ (are you still there bob ?!? ;D)
I feel very badly for the 830 workers that stand to be affected by this, along with however many people from/with EH that will also be affected.
One thing that I think keeps getting overlooked is that CRTs are tubes too! That would make Japan one of the largest tube producers, but as we know they are not building audio tubes (at the moment). Regardless of the tube type, there are certain elements that will remain the same in all tubes of similar construction.
I keep wondering if the rise of LCD monitors and TVs will create a bunch of surplus tube mass production equipment? Image a Sony CRT line being shifted. I wonder if we'll we ever see aperture grill grids? They do have the technology down pat. Also, Korea is another big tube producer we seldom think of.
Unfortunitely, this doesn't surprise me from what I learned about the post-soviet russian ecconomy. At least its not really the mafia in charge anymore, or Matthews probably wouldn't have a factory to worry about anymore. He's going to have trouble doing things the legal way, I suggest paying off the power company.
Quote from: johngreene on December 17, 2005, 02:36:30 AM
Sure they can probably come up with a 'better' way of making a tube but it wil never have that special 'mojo' the old tubes have!
Might have some new mojo though... :icon_lol:
Quote from: Hal on December 17, 2005, 01:23:27 PM
Unfortunitely, this doesn't surprise me from what I learned about the post-soviet russian ecconomy. At least its not really the mafia in charge anymore, or Matthews probably wouldn't have a factory to worry about anymore. He's going to have trouble doing things the legal way, I suggest paying off the power company.
From what I gather, under Russian law if your house is destroyed by fire you lose ownership of the land it stands on. As a result 'developers' have been burning down peoples property, to the extent that some families are holding 'vigils' over their houses to prevent them from being destroyed by these criminals. Same thing happens to factories too apparently (gulp)...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2949468.stm
http://www.vacuumtubes.net/How_Vacuum_Tubes_Work.htm
Okay, scroll down and there's some info on tube production. That should be enough to get me started. ;D
-----------
Jimbo
this list makes me believe that there really is nothing to be worried about, except for Mr. Matthews and his workers:
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/tube_makers.html
Quote from: guitarhacknoise on December 18, 2005, 04:27:53 PM
this list makes me believe that there really is nothing to be worried about, except for Mr. Matthews and his workers:
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/tube_makers.html
That's what I was wondering when the original article stated there were only TWO other full time tube manufacturers ???
Although some on the list don't seem to be guitar related, I knew there were other factories such as St Petersburg, Sino tubes from China and a plant in Yugoslavia at least.
Looks like a definate crappy "hostile" takeover attempt, but here in the good 'ol USA, the SCOTUS decided it was ok for cities to take your home and give it to other individuals just to get more tax revenue (At least once congress was smart enough to listen to the people and pass legislation in an attempt to take all federal money from such "transfers").
Quote from: puretube on December 16, 2005, 04:40:20 AM
...
another serious threat is the RoHS thing...
THANK YOU, Mike
for shouldering the tremendous efforts and investment
of being able to supply us with compliant tubes!!!
(http://www.u-blog.net/deliriumpersonnel/img/kiss_smiley.gif)
Quote from: puretube on December 16, 2005, 04:30:21 PM
In Mike I trust !
Thank You,
Hartley Peavey,
Fender,
Korg,
Vox,
for standing like a Wall-of-Rock
behind Mr. Matthews and his contributions to the music world!
Hi.
So who makes tubes these days?
There used to be 3 chinese factories, but there might only be 2 left (Peking Valve Co, Shanghai Valve Co, one other ??), Ei in what used to be Yugoslavia, 3 in russia (JJ, Svetlana, Sovtek/EH ??). Or are JJ and Svetlana the same?
Anybody know for sure?
JJ is a Slovakian company,
lead by a nice tube veteran bearing those initials,
who rescued/took over (?) the "state"-owned company
formerly known as "Tesla"
in former Tchechoslovakia
from going down the drain, when communism faded away.
It seems there are 2 main bodies of thought about tubes and it varies depending on what your selling.
If your selling NOS, the new tubes don't measure up spec or sound wise. The processes and chemicals are not the same.
If your selling new tubes, they are just as good as the old ones, with improved production methods.
Having lived thru the "got to switch to solid state because there aren't going to be any more tubes period," in the '70's, I guess we ought to be glad we have some of both. :icon_cool:
Check this thread out. Before you get too excited.
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/Forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1134092279/4#4
This is the best tube forum on the web. If you ever have a question about tubes this is the spot but remember to search there database and read the library before posting. Some of these guys are insane tube gurus if you can spark there interest they will post a three page spread straight up. Though you may only understand a 1/16 of what they are going off on it will be the 1/16 yoou need to know.
kris
The scariest thing about this whole incident is the fact that Mark Hammer reads the Moscow Times! :icon_mrgreen:
Kidding Mark, nice research as usual.
There is one sentence in that letter that should put everyone's mind at ease. The one that says "$400,000" in it. You can buy a tube FACTORY for under a half million dollars in Russia. Even though that was 7 years ago it's still a ridiculously low investment. EXTREMELY RIDICULOUSLY LOW!!! Keep in mind that it is about 1 million dollars to build and open a full line braiser Dairy Queen from the ground up.
Yes, that means on your way to work today you passed dozens of possible Russian tube factory owners.
N*w Y*rk T*mes, today... (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/business/worldbusiness/16cheat.html?ex=1305432000&en=98bbc6b650e04c66&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)
The writer (Andrew Kramer) appears to have only minimal grasp of the music industry and of the technology, but an interesting read nonetheless.
It must be interesting to be a corporate lawyer in Russia these days...and lucrative, too.
I just purchased some tubes the other day from New Sensor. I spoke with a sales person and they said all is well (for the moment). They also added that it looks like things are going in their (New Sensor's) favor for the future. Notice that I just bought some new tubes... I'm stocking up.
:icon_rolleyes:
WAit... Billy Gould!?! How freaking long has Faith No More been broken up that they are interviewing that guy? They really are a little behind the times...
Nice article on the subject:
http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2006/05/vacuum-tubes-not-endangered-after-all.html
I just read an article about this in todays local newspaper...interesting. It said that a pallet of documents were stolen via truck, and so now they can't prove the ownership or something of the factory...
That was with reference to other incidents not involving E-H/Sovtek. The article barrett77 links to presents a somewhat contrary view.
There IS more than a little self-promotion on Mike Matthews part (which, as all the boutique makers here know, is how you stay in business), but at the same time the views of Eric Barbour in the other article have more than a little hint of "The world of tubes is much wider than 12AX7s and 6L6s, so what's the big deal if he closes?". The true situation is, I imagine, somewhere in between those two poles. The unsavoury "business" practices Mike is encountering are indeed reprehensible, but ultimately things he may be able to defend against, albeit with a whole lot of effort and some financial outlay. Although the tube world is so much bigger than the top 6 or 8 tubes sold by Sovtek and many of the big name outlets and music stores, the fact is that Sovteks and those top 6 or 8 models account for a big share of the most commonly used tubes around. Even if someone came up with an absolutely brilliant amp using nothing that can be found in the E-H stable, the fact remains that there are a whole lot of existing tube amps that will still need 12AX7s, 12AT7s, 6L6s, 6V6s, EL34s, and 5AR4s, 5, 10, and 20 years from now, so anything that threatens major producers of those tubes has an impact on musicians. Not quite the death of rock and roll, certainly, but an impact nonetheless.
Rock & Roll Routs Racketeers.
see the picture... :
in this stereophile article (http://www.stereophile.com/news/052206tubes/)
It looks like Mike needs a wrestling mask!! :icon_lol: Jeez Louise, does he bend all those sheet-metal chassis for the Flanger Hoax by hand?!
Thanks for the link to the article. This one is both even more alarming, but more hopeful in some respects, than articles we've seen previously. Clearly, RBE is not going down without a fight either. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is which is cheaper to sustain over the long run: lawyers in suits, or guys in leather jackets hanging around outside the Saratov factory? On the other hand, if western investors perceive there is no point in investing in Russian industry, because thieves will make off with it in the long run, that starts to get pretty costly for Mr. Putin.
"it is like trying to plug up the dikes in Holland."
Well, we did that, so let's hope it all works out.
Kudos to Mike, and especially the workers at that factory. I'm not even sure how I'd react - going to work in the morning would certainly take on a certain level of anxiety.
If this were the USA, I would wonder if the other Tube Mfg.s were behind it??? :icon_wink:
Cutting off energy supply is russian foreign policy! (Ukraine)
The men at the border wear army fatiques instead of leather jackets but the principle is the same.
Mike Matthews is fighting a long battle with an entrenched enemy on land they know all too well.
Buying buildings next to the factory and installing generators is the best bet. Delaying any energy cut offs till the point when they are complete is probably his game plan. Smart man, probably save some money on energy bills in the long run too. Investing in higher numbers of trustworthy security is another good idea.
I like how Eric Barbour thinks...and I also think 12AX7s are boring. DIYers aren't limited by the need for commercial sized tube stocks and should be experimenting with things like obscure tubes.
SEE the latest NBC video newsbroadcast from Saratov,
and see/hear Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Peter Stroud, R.H.C.P.,
and the man himself play:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13145804/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13145804/)
check out the tube-manufacturing...
...BTW: there have been differing opinions about E.B.`s attitude in advertising... ("Buttprobe", etc.)
Quote from: R.G. on December 16, 2005, 10:51:18 AM
The oddity about capitalism is that if enough people want something, the market produces it.
(snip)
The real question is in the economics.
Exactly. There is nothing that prevents a tube factory from being built in the USA except economics.
If the demand is large enough, a new factory will be established in China, and Matthews is probably looking into that right now... I would.
Six years ago, most of the pesticides used by farmers in the US, which came from Dow, Dupont, FMC, etc., were also made in the US. Now, they are all imported from China (and sometimes India). You can still buy the same products from those manufacturers but the source of origin is different even though the label looks the same.
regards, Jack
Anybody manage to capture that interview video? I'm on dial-up (I'm cheap) and can't get it to play properly.
^I can't either, I'm on a Mac...
Stupid Microsoft >:(
[/quote]
Exactly. There is nothing that prevents a tube factory from being built in the USA except economics.
If the demand is large enough, a new factory will be established in China, and Matthews is probably looking into that right now... I would.
[/quote]
Gotta move on ...tubes are here to stay !!
...China Big Muff...sounds ok
Mr.Matthews you are a living legend...you can chop down any mountain with your bare hands...
How is ExpoPUL pronounced?
Quote from: puretube on June 10, 2006, 07:25:39 AM
...BTW: there have been differing opinions about E.B.`s attitude in advertising... ("Buttprobe", etc.)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=21095.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=21095.0)
Quote from: RedHouse on June 10, 2006, 11:57:13 AM
Anybody manage to capture that interview video? I'm on dial-up (I'm cheap) and can't get it to play properly.
Here is some info on capturing videos:
http://www.dubayou.com/mytube.php
-Jack
Yeah thanks Jack, I'm ok with those formats.
This article was a WM stream.
http://www.gearwire.com/matthews-russia-tube-story.html (http://www.gearwire.com/matthews-russia-tube-story.html)
to be continued...
I bet Randall Smith was behind this...
Came over this just yesterday:
DIY vacuum tubes ;D
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/vt-vac.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/hm-vac-diode.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/hm-triode.htm
~one year later:: (http://www.ehx.com/releases/MM_Person_of_the_Year.pdf)
I'm glad things worked out for Mr. Matthews. It's unfortunate that the same capitalism that made his business ventures in Russia possible are also responsible for incredible amounts of corruption and trouble for him.
Right on!
Andrew
For sure!
I am the tech at a well known full service music store in Boulder, Co. We sell Groove Tubes upstairs, but if you bring your amp in the basement for repairs/service. You will get the new line of EH tubes in your amp.
My experience in the field has led me to use the EH tubes almost exclusively.
I am a believer,
ry
Quote from: soulsonic on August 12, 2007, 06:05:23 PMIt's unfortunate that the same capitalism that made his business ventures in Russia possible are also responsible for incredible amounts of corruption and trouble for him.
Nah, sorry, capitalism is an idea; neither it nor any other "ism" is or can be "responsible" for anything: people are. Those Russian "businessmen"/thugs are responsible for their actions, just as Mike is responsible for his success. Good on him!
Ben
Quote from: puretube on August 12, 2007, 05:06:13 PM
~one year later:: (http://www.ehx.com/releases/MM_Person_of_the_Year.pdf)
Thanks for the update Puretube.
Every now and then I've wondered how this was going to work out.
Thought it might drag on for years.
I hope Mike's Russian troubles are now settled for the long term.
Keep us in the loop! Thanks again. It's nice to have closure.
What happened in Russia is that they took the worst of what they had and combined it with the worst of western culture.
These guys are more like the real life version of Keyser Söze...
Russia has great potential though ( and so do we ;) ! )
Quote from: oskar on August 13, 2007, 11:59:26 AM
What happened in Russia is that they took the worst of what they had and combined it with the worst of western culture.
These guys are more like the real life version of Keyser Söze...
Russia has great potential though ( and so do we ;) ! )
I would partially agree with you. But then again, such is the case in many countries where the government is corrupted to the same degree.
Quote from: Constantin Necrasov on August 14, 2007, 01:58:47 AM
Quote from: oskar on August 13, 2007, 11:59:26 AM
What happened in Russia is that they took the worst of what they had and combined it with the worst of western culture.
These guys are more like the real life version of Keyser Söze...
Russia has great potential though ( and so do we ;) ! )
I would partially agree with you. But then again, such is the case in many countries where the government is corrupted to the same degree.
Oh yeah, it's not only the case in Russia, they are just not so "subtle" about it !
I was in Moscow recently for a couple of shows for a large bank/CEO's birthday - lot's of blokes with no hair and bulging jackets ....
The next day we had quite a few hours free before flying home so two members of the crew went into town.
They have the usual "crew" look - long hair/scruffy and dangling keys etc, they were pulled into a side street by a couple of cops ( ?? )
and were asked to pay €2000 as they didn't have the right papers !!!
They fronted it out and insisted on going to the Police station to sort it out, after some minutes of threats and mumbling, the "cops" went
back to their car and drove off ........ the crew's morning in town was over but at least they got away without being ripped off.
People with less "balls" would possibly have paid money to be set free ..... they did have guns BTW !! :icon_rolleyes:
In fact there was and will be nothing to worry about.
The average tube enthousiast has a back stash that would at least last the next 27 generations.
Ever looked into a tube lover`s closet?
There really is nothing to worry about.
Ed
Quote from: Ben N on August 12, 2007, 11:26:09 PM
Quote from: soulsonic on August 12, 2007, 06:05:23 PMIt's unfortunate that the same capitalism that made his business ventures in Russia possible are also responsible for incredible amounts of corruption and trouble for him.
Nah, sorry, capitalism is an idea; neither it nor any other "ism" is or can be "responsible" for anything: people are. Those Russian "businessmen"/thugs are responsible for their actions, just as Mike is responsible for his success. Good on him!
Ben
I don't think you got my point. If it weren't for that "idea" being introduced to the Russian economy, then Mike wouldn't have even been able to purchase a factory. And if that weren't possible, then this issue wouldn't have even come up. People were corrupt before anyway, but at least in a more "coercive" gov't system, it's a little easier to take action against wrongdoers (when they actually get caught!). When I think of corrupt gov't officials, I think of China and what they tend to do to their corrupt officials when they get caught. Of course there will always be corruption in any system, but it's nice to see guilty people get what's coming to them.
Quote from: EdJ on August 14, 2007, 05:38:40 AM
In fact there was and will be nothing to worry about.
The average tube enthousiast has a back stash that would at least last the next 27 generations.
Ever looked into a tube lover`s closet?
There really is nothing to worry about.
Ed
I am a fanatical tube enthusiast and I do NOT have a pile of tubes stashed in my closet. The only tubes I have alot of are ones I don't ever use or depleted ones that I can't bring myself to throw away.