Hi, as promised in my last posts, I designed a PCB for the boss electronic bypass switch for this circuit:
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Morocotuco/BOSSelectronicbypassSCHEMpartsnumbe.gif)
EDIT: now the schem has the parts numbered...
It ended about 7 x 4 cm, kind of large, but with my limited experience I could´t make it smaller.
NOT TESTED YET. Next I´ll etch, build, and confirm if it works or not. I hope the circuit is correct...
I don´t have the slightest idea about PCB design, I just worked from a "lay the parts and connect them in the smallest possible space" point of view, so, no concern about ground planes, 9V crossing signal paths, etc.
I used a perfboard hole spacing as a component spacing starting point, so if it works maybe the whole thing could be made a bit smaller...
Feel free to comment, point errors, improve, prototype, download, copy, distribute, use as wallpaper, whatever.
Hope it is of some use to anybody, my little (hopefully useful) contribution to this forum and its generous people.
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Morocotuco/Boss-electronic-bypass-PCB-.gif)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Morocotuco/Boss-electronic-bypass-PCB.gif)
Holy !"·$%!!! the images are huge!!!!
err... just download them to see them better...
sorry, I´m not sure how to make them smaller...
Here´s the PCB with cm. scale for printing...
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Morocotuco/Boss-electronic-bypass-PCB2.gif)
This surely wins my "Most Pointless Project of the Year" award. ;D (no offence)
Ever considered this alternative?:
(http://www.diystompboxes.com/cart/3PDTsw2.jpg)
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Jimbo
Some people might find this useful, Jim.
In some countrys, like mine (Argentina) it´s not possible to buy 3PDT´s.
Or 2PDT´s, for that matter.
You are posting on an internet message board, and 3PDTs are sold on that same board by mail order.
Smallbear ships to South America as do others.
I dont see the problem.
Well, I don't see this turning out any cheaper than ordering from Aron, and to my knowledge, he does ship there.
Hmm, any reason for choosing the Boss bypass? Why not the tubescreamer? At first glance it looks far simpler.
Here's an idea - maybe you can mod the layout to fit the switch as well, so you can build a pile of these neat switcher-units for future use in projects. Make sure to wrap them into heat-shrink too. ;D Or were you planning to put them on the same board as the projects?
Anyway, great work on the layout, I might even try it out when I run out of switches.
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Jimbo
Yes, I know aron and smallbear, but ordering them abroad, with customs and shipping, is about U$S 15-20 per switch or thereabouts, that´s 50 argentinian $, for that money I can make a few switches here.
Also, the hassle of ordering, waiting, I´ve had problems with shipments not arriving before...oh, the horror... :P
Seriously, I plan to try some 3PDT´s eventually, but I see this as another option, another tool, also maybe useful for some other people, that´s why i posted it. I asked here about the Ibanez switch, but I was discouraged to try it, someone said it wouldn´t work...
The momentary footswitches I can get here are for electrical purposes, they don´t fit in a PCB, the terminals are not meant to be soldered.
Also, I´ve had pop problems with 2PDT switches (made here, not imported), and I wanted the certainty that the switch wouldn´t pop (yes, i know about pulldowns, etc. I have read the whole forum!!! Yes, all of it!!! 500 some posts!!!) :icon_wink:.
I don´t think it would be a good idea to put the switch in the same board as the effect, the result would be too big, having two separate boards gives you more flexibility with the internal layout of the box...
ALSO, I´m trying to finish my first pedal (Ross comp), and this was the best option i found for the switching...I´ve already made the Tone god switch, the DOD one, none of them worked to my entire satisfaction (actually, the DOD one didn´t work at all)
Quote from: spudulike on April 08, 2006, 08:01:52 PM
You are posting on an internet message board, and 3PDTs are sold on that same board by mail order.
Smallbear ships to South America as do others.
I dont see the problem.
I can think of a few good reasons why an electronic switch would be preferable to a mechanical 3PDT, but obviously you know what these are and have considered them of no value before making your post. ::)
Moroctopo, this is a good effort if you're just finishing your first pedal. Some people don't seems to realise the economies of purchasing might be different outside their own country. ;^)
Nice board, good it looks
Thank you for sharing this, Morocotopo! If that's not DIY, I don't know what is.
Buen trabajo che!
Tene en cuenta que la mayoria de los Fets y transistores mencionados en el circuito aca no se consiguen, o salen carisimos. No hay ninguna necesidad de usar los mismos; por ejemplo para los 2SK30 podes usar PN4393 (creo que son mejores incluso). Para los transistores de entrada y salida podes usar simples BC549C, o incluso darlingtons (MPSA13 creo que sirven) que te permiten aumentar la resistencia de entrada R2 para que tengas menos perdida de sonido. Lo unico, fijate que tengan la misma distribucion de pines al montarlos.
Para los 2SC1815 del flip flop podes usar casi cualquier transistor NPN y va a funcionar igual. 2N3904 pueden ser una buena opcion, te diria que uses los mas baratos en esa posicion.
Saludos
Miguel
PS: sorry for the non-spanish speakers! ;)
GREAT work Morocotopo ! 8) 8) 8)
Sometimes it is good to have this kind of an alternatives in your "pocket" (even if you can get good switches of any kind).
Another thing is... When building stuff just for fun, sometimes it's fun just to try stuff like this even if it is not tonally transparent and stuff. I have built a condenser microphone just to see if it would work. I even built the microphone capsule myself from some old hard disk parts and some other junk and I used aluminium foil for the diaphragm. It's not hifi (and I could probably buy a better mic for 50€), but it works and I'm proud of that. It actually works better than I assumed.
Awww... Sorry for OT... Anyway, my point is that sometimes it's worth it to build something just to see if you can and explore it and tweak it etc even if it has no practical use.
BTW. This could be probably modded to switch between two different effects and then modded to do the switching slowly... I think it could be usefull to have one sound fade away while other fades in.
Quote from: Elektrojänis on April 09, 2006, 03:11:57 PM
BTW. This could be probably modded to switch between two different effects and then modded to do the switching slowly... I think it could be usefull to have one sound fade away while other fades in.
Excellent idea, I can't wait to see someone implement that.
Oh by the way Jänis, I'm interested in that condenser mic project, can you point me at the right direction? PM me
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Jimbo
Bioroids:
Gracias compatriota! Voy a tener en cuenta tus sugerencias sobre los componentes, me vienen muy bien. Apenas lo haga funcionar (si funciona!), comento mas noticias. No entiendo muy bien lo de los darlingtons (en realidad, no se que es un darlington... ejem...). Que valor tendria que usar para R2 si uso un darlington (creo que es un tipo de transistor, correcto?) O depende de que darlington use? Usar un darlington mejoraría la performance de audio del circuito (menos perdida de señal)? .Ahora me voy a tomar mate con dulce de leche y a escribir con mi boligrafo...he, he
To the others:
Thanks for the responses, as soon as I get it to work, I´ll post news. Practice your spanish! ( :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:)
Anyone need translation?
Trabajo fantástico Morocotopo ! 8) 8) 8)
By the way, I forgot to mention that the electrolitic (polarized) caps C4, 5 and 14 were not indicated as such in the original schem by RX5, they didn´t have polarity indication, I added their polarity after looking at another Boss schematic on the net. Also, I have doubts about C6, C8 and C13, in the other schem I saw their values are:
C6: 0.047uF
C8: 0.047uF
C13: 0.01uF
Problems with the translation between nF and uF? I guess I´ll try both values...
And, I couldn´t find the 1N4146 diode, I was told that BY255 is a substitute, what do you think?
Muy bien tu español, peter!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Assuming that an independent build confirms that the layout works as intended, this is a terrific addition, and much appreciated by at least one person here. I've got a big sloped Hammond chassis I picked up surplus for $10, with holes for 8 momentary switches and what was apparently holes for a bunch of Boss pedals that had been housed in it. The holes are a nice spacing for my foot, and given the structural solidness issues of larger sloped chassis, soft-touch switches are the way to go.
Jim is certainly right about 3PDT's being easier, but it is easy to think of many useful applications for a FET-based circuit. In the case of commercial pedals that HAVE to assume they will be your only pedal, adding up all those buffers CAN make a difference in tone and noise. But if they're YOUR pedals, and you KNOW you'll have 5 or 6 or 8 of them and you know what sequence they'll be in, you have much less obligation to have buffers before and after everything, and can simply use the switch.
As well, as is nicely explained in the DOD switch document by David Di Francesco at my site, these switches are easily modifiable to incorporate as many FETs as you want to produce more complex switching like order reversal and other things that a 3PDT can't do. Finally, where 3PDTs that carry the audio signal have to be where the circuit is, the FET-based switch can be remotely controlled by a simple momentary....which could, for instance, be situated at the sound guy's desk.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on April 09, 2006, 07:06:18 PM
Finally, where 3PDTs that carry the audio signal have to be where the circuit is, the FET-based switch can be remotely controlled by a simple momentary....which could, for instance, be situated at the sound guy's desk.
The ability to 'remote-mute' a sloppy and out-of-tune lead guitarist was actually one advantage of this approach I thought of..... more complex (but more fun) would be to rig a logic-based pedal system where if (say) the singer AND bass player or bass player AND drummer hit the 'mute guitarist' switch (at about the same time), then he gets muted for 1 minute (say). To make it fair, a similar system should be setup for the bass player, keys, singer etc. For the drummer, a real 'mute' would be impossible, however, activation of his/her 'mute system' would involve a robotic hand lowering a sheet of music in front of them; in my experience, this is sure to result in immediate confusion in said drummer and the cessation of all beating of skins. :)
There are different advantages to different switching systems be it stomp switches, relays, multiplexers (4053/4066), FETs, optos, etc. This system will allow users who's design criteria calls for a FET system to have the option. It is simply another tool in the DIYer's box.
Good job!
Andrew
Unbeliever: What do you mean? Drummers are not musicians? :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
Mark: Did you ever build the DOD switch? I etched a PCB for it as provided by someone here called Difedetry or something like that, but I couldn´t make it work... Don´t know if the schematic has errors or the PCB was wrong... or I did something wrong. To me (very limited circuit experience), comparing this circuit and the DOD one, this one I can follow/understand the functionalitiy more or less, not so on the DOD one...
EVERYBODY NOTICED THE COMMENTS IN MY PREVIOUS POST ABOUT CAPS C 4, 5, 14, 6, 8, 13, RIGHT?
I´ll probably build it the next weekend to see if it works OK.
P.D: Mark, if I understood you right, you mean you could build this but without the in/out buffers? How would you do that (I mean, what parts of the circuit would you leave out?) I think I could eventually figure it out, probably it´s the in / out transistors and their associated R´s and C´s, right? But I´m not that good (actually, i don´t know how) at modding circuits...
Quote from: Morocotopo on April 09, 2006, 04:19:13 PM
C6: 0.047uF
C8: 0.047uF
C13: 0.01uF
Tenes razon, C6 y C8 deben ser 0.047uf. C13 no estoy seguro.
En cuanto al diodo 1N4146, creo que lo podes reemplazar por un 1N4007.
english version:You're right, C6 and C8 must be 0.047uf. I'm not sure about C13.
The 1N4146 diode can be replaced with a 1N4007 I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
Miguel
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 09, 2006, 07:14:52 PM
Quote from: Mark Hammer on April 09, 2006, 07:06:18 PM
Finally, where 3PDTs that carry the audio signal have to be where the circuit is, the FET-based switch can be remotely controlled by a simple momentary....which could, for instance, be situated at the sound guy's desk.
The ability to 'remote-mute' a sloppy and out-of-tune lead guitarist was actually one advantage of this approach I thought of..... more complex (but more fun) would be to rig a logic-based pedal system where if (say) the singer AND bass player or bass player AND drummer hit the 'mute guitarist' switch (at about the same time), then he gets muted for 1 minute (say). To make it fair, a similar system should be setup for the bass player, keys, singer etc. For the drummer, a real 'mute' would be impossible, however, activation of his/her 'mute system' would involve a robotic hand lowering a sheet of music in front of them; in my experience, this is sure to result in immediate confusion in said drummer and the cessation of all beating of skins. :)
Why evoke an unpleasant feeling of confusion? The cease of any noise caused by continuous whacking of skin-covered cylindrical objects can also be achieved by exposing a candy bar, which in turn will totally reorient the attention of the primate currently under discussion.
;D
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Jimbo
http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
:)
I am one of the Boss fans about the FET switching...
Good job with the pcb. I did a couple pcbs for FET switching myself because I don't like pop-ups when I switch an effect.
And I like to switch some effects from a distance, which you can't do with true bypass.
I have some effects that have true bypass, some don't, and one uses a PIC controlled switching.
Keep on the good work.
Gilles
As a (tiny scale) manufacturer, I must say my life would have been easier if I'd used fet switching, so thanks! And, it's certainly true that mail order from South America is usually a frustrating, expensive, and uncertain process. I know that in Australia I have it easy, and I admire the DIYers that manage to stompbox in Brazil and Argentina.
As a matter of fact, I never had a problem with shippings from Small Bear, the mail here is working pretty good. Only downside is added cost of shipping and taxes (50% of total cost !)
Luck!
Miguel
actually electronic switching isnt that bad, you can use it to remotely bypass an fx, thats wat i usually do to boss pedals, i add a 1/4" jack to bypass the momentary switch when you plug a mono cable and then use a box to remotely bypass it, some people ive done it for use it for their boss pedals in the FX loop of their amps so its actually good to have
Just a last detail about true bypass vs fet switching.
First, I like to use a buffer right after the guitar when I use many effects to make sure the effects won't deteriorate the signal in the bypassed position.
And I always use a true bypass switchbox to be able to feed the guitar straight to the amp when I want to.
But that's just my taste anyway.
And Ralph, while looking at your pcb layout tonight, I found a little detail that I would have done another way. As you said that you didn't have a lot of experience, I though I could make you a suggestion about that detail. I hope that you won't mind, and you do what you want with it... It is just a suggestion.
It is just that normally, I find it better to have both conections for the LEDs close together. It permits to twist the 2 wires together right at the pcb.
As I said, it is just a thing that I like to do with pots and LEDs. I did a quick modification to your pcb just to show you how it would look.
Keep on the good work.
Gilles
Gilles(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/Boss-bypass-PCB.gif)
Gilles, that´s great work. Your suggestions, as everyone´s, are welcome. I don´t consider this PCB to be my "work/property", that´s why I posted it, so that anyone that wants to can add, correct, improve, criticize, etc. so that the end result is better than what any one single person can do (especially me!! ;D). So, it´s also your work/property now!! ;D ;D ;D
By the way, who is Ralph???? I´m morocotopo (hahahaha)!!!
Etching and prototyping today or tomorrow... stay tuned for news...
Quote from: Morocotopo on April 13, 2006, 01:41:37 PM....
By the way, who is ???? I´m (hahahaha)!!! ....
Hummm.. in that "casemorocotopo not Ralph", you should change the name on the schematic... ::) ;D
"Gilles not Gilles".
Oh, I see where you got the name....
I´m not the one who made/drew the schematic, I just posted it for reference, I downloaded it from some page, or from this forum, I don´t remember.
Since I´m not the author, I don´t think I should change the names in the graphic file, don´t want to take credit for something I didn´t make, I just made the PCB for it.
But, it´s OK Gilles, you can call me Ralph if you want... ;D ;D ;D
I've been thinking about playing with this circuit.
somebody else built? it works?
Thanks for this, OP.
I tend to agree towards people who value the person providing such a circuit and its knowledge to the masses.
The electronic switch system is a "flip-flop". http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/5-Projects/Projects16.html and is designed to be stable in either state.
Kinda noob here in the forums but this project got me interested so i registered
I already made the circuit and the led turns on and off with the press of the switch.
my question is -- Can i test it outside a complete stombox circuit. just to see if its 100% functioning and how to do that
I dont thing continuity testing will work as the signal goes thru a lot of components.
Any body also made this. I could not get the 1n4146 i used a 4148.
Going from the schematic in the first post if you connect your guitar to in and out to your amp it should pass signal in bypass mode, when the LED is off. If you turn the LED on then you should get no sound because the path is broken where the effect would go. If you then connect effect in to effect out you should get sound.
thank you slacker for the reply
We i double triple checked everything i was kinda expecting to get a continuity reading on the in and out with the led off. but i dont think ill get that with too many components in the path. The only way i guess is to try your suggestion. Will update ASAP
Yeah,also here in Bulgaria,finding a 3pdt is impossible. :icon_evil:
I am building one of these as well.I used a 2 color led(red&green) for the two states of the circuit.
BTW.What kind of momentary switch are you using?You mentioned it is meant for electrical purposes but what kind exactly ?
CONFIRMED
This circuit works. you wont be able to test it thru a continuity test but it works. Omit R5 and D3 as this is useless and
will only add confusion
I still have some leakage issues but i believe this is just a few tweaks. will update as soon as finaliZed
Dear Lord!! I made this 9 years ago!!
:icon_eek:
I´m getting old.
Glad it works for someone. Don´t omit D3, it´s D2 and R5 that can be omitted (should be omitted, actually).
The PCB should be updated, it´s possible to make it much much smaller, so it doesn´t take as much space in the box. This was one of my first PCB designs, if not the first one. Ah, the memories...
;D
I did some changes though
i change the buffer transistor from 732 to 2n5088 which makes for a correct pinout to use with the pcb and to my ears a better buffer
I also change c1 to .01uf and c22 to .47uf Also the biasing resistors next the the 1n4148 may need tweaking depending on you effect circuit. Drive pedals may require less resistance. otherwise during bypass a little amount of the effect will leak. it would be best to maybe use a trimpot here for the fine tuning