.... its a super easy to build germanium booster that, so far in tests, sounds pretty damn good ! i'm not sure why i never bothered to set up a germanium transistor this way before, but i'm glad i tried it. very few parts, nice sound, and pushes an amp into overdrive nicely....
mine biased at about 33k on the collector resistor, so you can probably use a 50k trimmer if you dont have a 100k "handy"...
take a few seconds and breadboard it...i think you'll be glad you did.
have fun !
AC
btw...if you want to build the PNP version (for AC128, OC44, etc transistors), just swap ground and +9v...easy !
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/CREAMPPIEBOOSTER.GIF)
...and heres a quick and easy perfboard layout for the Cream Pie....
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/CREAMPIEPERFBOARDLAYOUT.gif)
Damn! You beat me to the punch Andy!!
Now that looks interesting indeed.
Enough so that I did a PCB Layout for it ;D
Go here>>>http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album15 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album15)
Hows this compare to the Sparkle Boost or the Range Pig (If you have tried it) or any other popular boosts? I will breadboard it as soon as my Germanium comes in... :icon_confused: whenever it does...
I have yet to build it but I suspect it will sound good but just what it will sound like, I don't really know.
However, if anyone puts this thing together using my layout, please let me know as mine is Unverified at the moment.
To use this with a PNP and postive ground you'd reverse +9V and ground? and its its now CBE with the npn in the layout you'd make it EBC for a pnp?
I beleive the pinout would remain the same.
Quote from: call1800ksmyazz on October 22, 2006, 08:56:18 AM
Hows this compare to the Sparkle Boost or the Range Pig (If you have tried it) or any other popular boosts? I will breadboard it as soon as my Germanium comes in... :icon_confused: whenever it does...
very different from either, but "most" different from the SB...
its fuller range than the pig, not as bright as the SB...creamy ;)
i'mn gonna get it off the breadboard and box it up today.....ive only tried it with a couple small amps and a tele and 335 so far, but it sounds very good...
AC
Quote from: markm on October 22, 2006, 08:40:12 AM
Damn! You beat me to the punch Andy!!
Now that looks interesting indeed.
Enough so that I did a PCB Layout for it ;D
Go here>>>http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album15 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album15)
your layout should work just fine....
btw...picked up some 1590bb's yesterday...and i finally know where theres a post office in austin ;) ...i havent got my work schedule for next week yet, but expect a tuesday mailing :)
AC
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 22, 2006, 12:18:12 PM
your layout should work just fine....
btw...picked up some 1590bb's yesterday...and i finally know where theres a post office in austin ;) ...i havent got my work schedule for next week yet, but expect a tuesday mailing :)
AC
No problem my friend I mean hey......I've made it this far huh? :icon_lol:
I think I may build mine as a + ground.
Mainly because I don't have the right Germs!! :icon_sad:
Talk to ya soon Andy,
MarkM
Quote from: markm on October 22, 2006, 12:58:41 PM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 22, 2006, 12:18:12 PM
your layout should work just fine....
btw...picked up some 1590bb's yesterday...and i finally know where theres a post office in austin ;) ...i havent got my work schedule for next week yet, but expect a tuesday mailing :)
AC
No problem my friend I mean hey......I've made it this far huh? :icon_lol:
I think I may build mine as a + ground.
Mainly because I don't have the right Germs!! :icon_sad:
Talk to ya soon Andy,
MarkM
be sure to let me know what ya think of the Cream Pie....
i just soldered up the perf...getting ready to drill and assemble....
think I may build mine as a + ground.
Looks like conversion from PNP to NPN on this one is as easy as reversing the PS polarity and swapping the transistor.
any chance of a Si version?
Quote from: Barcode80 on October 22, 2006, 03:03:29 PM
any chance of a Si version?
Just put a Si in there, possibly won't sound the same, but it should work fine.
ok...i went ahead and boxed it up......took a while 'cause i'm watching the bengals/panthers game ;)
conclusion...this thing frickin' RULES ! plugged the 335---->Cream Pie---->Silvertone tube amp.......HOLY CRAP ! i've got it biased to 5v using a 33k resistor....CV7112 (OC140) germ....wow....
ok...i'll try to get sound samples posted...i have to leave for work in a bit, so it might not be today, but i'll try....
AC
ok...here are some "super quick" sound samples...this is only showing the "higher gain" gritty boost, REALLY pushing the amp....it'll also do a much cleaner boost at lower output levels...but i like it pushing the amp into overdrive !
ES335----->Cream Pie---->Silvertone tube amp---->sm57----->crappy recording program :) ...and monitored thru crappy speakers ! :)
no EQ added...no verb...no nothin'..
All the samples are "without the Cream Pie" first, then "Cream Pie engaged".... !
AC
http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampierhythm.mp3 (http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampierhythm.mp3)
http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampieblues.mp3 (http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampieblues.mp3)
http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampielead.mp3 (http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampielead.mp3)
Sounds really good. Sounds pretty close to the Sparkle Boost actually.
if i remember tho, the sparkle is much brighter. am i wrong?
Yea, but it sounds close other than that.
Quote from: Barcode80 on October 22, 2006, 04:34:53 PM
if i remember tho, the sparkle is much brighter. am i wrong?
the SB is definitely cleaner and brighter....if you dont want to "change" your tone, except to add a bit more definition, the SB is good...plus you "can" grit it up into a light overdrive....
the CP has more midrange, is naturally "grittier"...think "meaner rangemaster" :)
the SB has more dB's of boost....
i use the SB for chicken pickin', as well as some other basic boost needs...the CP looks like its gonna be my "go to" rock lead / rhythm booster...
definitely a bit different from one another, though sound samples will always be subjective....
AC
heres a "quickie" with a tele...please forgive the sloppy playing....
gritty tele... http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampietele.mp3 (http://h1.ripway.com/acarrell/creampietele.mp3)
I guess that PNP Ge negative grounded could be used without motorboating.
mac
Ya know AC,
Since you've moved, I may have to rename my build to "Austin Cream Pie" :icon_lol:
Vreadings?
I'm curious about the bias voltages on this one.
That Tele sounds a bit compressed, Samples sound great.
I'm tempted to get 7 pieces together and try this one out...
I've just built the cream pie, doing my first vero layout from a circuit in the process. I used an AC187. I built this as the sparkleboost is one of my favourite pedals and a circuit from Dragonfly has got to be good.
I've only had a chance to play it at low volume through a fender blues deluxe but it sounds great. I can see where the cream desciption comes from as the circuit seems to have a nice throaty midrange to it. I played wind cries mary with it and to me, with the neck pup of a strat it sounded pretty similar to that hendrixy clean/gritty tone.
One thing was when biasing to 4.5v, the 100K trimmer went from about 3v to 9v in a tiny, tiny movement in the trimmer. Had a hard time getting the 4.5v.
Quote from: jimmy54 on October 22, 2006, 08:03:34 PM
I've just built the cream pie, doing my first vero layout from a circuit in the process. I used an AC187. I built this as the sparkleboost is one of my favourite pedals and a circuit from Dragonfly has got to be good.
I've only had a chance to play it at low volume through a fender blues deluxe but it sounds great. I can see where the cream desciption comes from as the circuit seems to have a nice throaty midrange to it. I played wind cries mary with it and to me, with the neck pup of a strat it sounded pretty similar to that hendrixy clean/gritty tone.
One thing was when biasing to 4.5v, the 100K trimmer went from about 3v to 9v in a tiny, tiny movement in the trimmer. Had a hard time getting the 4.5v.
Nice.
One thing you could possibly try is using a 50K trimmer instead perhaps.
Quote from: jimmy54 on October 22, 2006, 08:03:34 PM
I've just built the cream pie, doing my first vero layout from a circuit in the process. I used an AC187. I built this as the sparkleboost is one of my favourite pedals and a circuit from Dragonfly has got to be good.
I've only had a chance to play it at low volume through a fender blues deluxe but it sounds great. I can see where the cream desciption comes from as the circuit seems to have a nice throaty midrange to it. I played wind cries mary with it and to me, with the neck pup of a strat it sounded pretty similar to that hendrixy clean/gritty tone.
One thing was when biasing to 4.5v, the 100K trimmer went from about 3v to 9v in a tiny, tiny movement in the trimmer. Had a hard time getting the 4.5v.
as suggested, you could use a 50k trimmer....
or, possibly a 22k resistor in series with a 20k trimmer....it seems to bias in that 27k-40k range...
glad you like it so far...keep me posted on your results !
AC
ps...glad you like the SB too ! i think i'm gonna build a Sparkle Boost / Cream Pie combo in a 1590BB box.....save some "real estate" on the pedalboard...
Quote from: petemoore on October 22, 2006, 07:52:36 PM
Vreadings?
I'm curious about the bias voltages on this one.
That Tele sounds a bit compressed, Samples sound great.
I'm tempted to get 7 pieces together and try this one out...
its funny, 'cause i seem to remember reading somewhere that germaniums don't bias with this type of setup, but it seems to work fine....
heres the voltage readings on the CV7112....i set it up a bit "hot", but anywhere from 4.5-5.5v should be fine....
C --- 5.00v
B --- .19v
E --- .12v
as for the 3meg resistor...you could probably use anywhere from a 1meg on up...i just chose a 3meg....just a guess though, as i havent tried any other value there...
actually, regarding the sound samples...i dont think they even come close to doing it justice...but for "quickies", theyre ok...they at least give an "idea" about the sound of the Cream Pie....
i hope you put it together Pete...i'd love to hear what you think....
AC
If you wanted to use an SI, try adding a cap in parallel with the 3 Meg resistor. My guess would be between 33-47pF. :icon_cool:
Since i will use a CV7112 too, i'd like to ask if the hfe is somewhat relevant to the sound.
What hfe was yours?
Quote from: alderbody on October 24, 2006, 03:39:49 AM
Since i will use a CV7112 too, i'd like to ask if the hfe is somewhat relevant to the sound.
What hfe was yours?
113
The lowest npn ge I have right now is 200hfe. Would this be too high for the circuit?
If not, would I have to use a larger value trimmer?
Thanks!
Arn C.
Quote from: Arn C. on October 24, 2006, 01:23:55 PM
The lowest npn ge I have right now is 200hfe. Would this be too high for the circuit?
If not, would I have to use a larger value trimmer?
Thanks!
Arn C.
try it...its probably fine....
i'd go with the 100k trimmer...
id check it on the breadboard first, but everything should be just fine....
Thanks Dragonfly!!!!!
Arn C.
Damnit, I was pumped to hear some soundclips but the bandwidth has been exceeded! :icon_frown:
HAd a stamp of perf enough for the socket and parts barely...lol
I used film .022uf>3M3 btw B/C, 1k, .047uf output cap
50k trimpot biased pretty easily the 158 I stuck in there.
Circuit is low noise, biased right up.
EZ-Real good, but I used a 100kl input gain pot, this works fine for me, I did have to use attenuated input so far to prevent what I think is transistor slamming into a rail...first off would be to try different transistors, maybe adding fixed series resistor on the input.
Cream Pie is a great name to apply to the circuit. Creamy is right, I tested this against...[actually I was about to add a LP cap on my RM, but build the CP] Rangemaster, and would recommend this as a great RM alternative after it's tested more etc.
It's easily put together and biased, has what sounds like a HF 'ceiling' despite no other LP Filtering than the Ge...This sounds great too !!!
As Fuzz Booster [Boost>Fuzz] it also stacks up to what competition I have for it, that being compressors, the RM type, Prof Tweed,. Hot sounding circuit for these purposes...I'm preferring what I heard it doing today...real nice.
So it's got to have a box...and will probably get a very early spot on the PB.
Then I can try it out bettermore.
So I just finished putting the CreamPie on my breadboard. This thing is the balls.
I built it with a 2SB77 PNP. It was the only GE I had in my parts box. I omitted the 500K pot at the input and plugged straight into the input cap. I also used a 47K for the trim pot. This thing sounded great right from the start. I like the sound best with 3.5V at the Collector. It has lots of gain and sound good and gritty.
Next I started tweeking. First I bypassed the emitter resistor with a 4.7u cap. Got more gain and the sound got brighter. Good sound but I like the stock setup better. Then I changed the 1K emitter resistor to 100 ohm. Again, brighter and more gain but not as nice as the stock setup. The last thing I did was add a 100K audio pot to the output. This change I liked. It's just personal taste but I really like gain then attenuate boosters.
So far I like the CreamPie best with its stock values and the volume pot at the output, but I think there is a lot more tweeking to be done with this little baby. Dragonfly, thank you VERY MUCH for sharing your work. There is huge amount of potential in this simple booster.
jaydawg :icon_biggrin:
Ya never know what's up with these Ge boosters.
@@Rate, I swapped in an SBxxx [lower gain than the 158, around ~79hfe] and twisted the bias, up some from 1/2v, this is very sweet.
The last thing I did was add a 100K audio pot to the output. This change I liked.
Agreed, the output pot on this first stage as well as the input gainpot would make it quite a bit more versatile. Guitar knob also works as input gainpot quite well.
I'm thinking of using a series fixed resistance on the input [maybe a divider], to mimic a chosen setting of the input gain pot [and replacing it], using guitar vol as 'gain', and dedicating that 100kl I have [haven't gotten any pots lately] to the output control...adding an input pulldown resistor
And maybe just keep it otherwise simple as it is, PNP pos Gnd. and use battery, adding only Reverse Protection diode.
Mine has very nice voice with only change as .047uf ..[because it'ws there] and 4m7 pulldown.
I was thinking the transistor didn't like not having it's base to ground resistor, but it seems to like it!! I haven't even taken my base voltage, setting collector at 4.2v of 8.2 supply, it 'popped' on low notes [hb's], raising the C voltage via 50k seemed to help, as well as reducing input gain. But none of that is really mattering...the sweetness zone has been found, it's 'competitive...instant hit here...
here's the adjectives...but I think they're applicable...
there's a smooth presence to the high end, like the highs are compressed, this aspect sets it apart from my RM type, which has near danger high end...I was gathering LP capacitors to mod the RM when I decided to persue this build...nice build too, didn't take long, biases GE's easily, sounds great, A1 booster!
man...now i'm blushing ! :icon_redface:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
here's a "little" thing or two that i did...and an idea or two....
1) on the input pot, running a small (i used 100pF) cap from lug3 to lug 2 helps retain a bit more sparkle...this'd be nice on a switch, as its helpful on 'buckers, but probably not necessary on single coils....
2) the output pot would bu useful if you wanted to use it as a gritty booster / light overdrive....anywhere from a 10k-100k should work fine.
3) for those who want a bit more control and temperature stability with the germanium trannies, using a fixed collector resistor (probably about 27k or so) and a 20k external pot would allow for easy bias adjustments when gigging in different temperatures....
4) another "stability" thing to do would be, IIRC, put a a germ diode between base and emitter...i'm going from memory on this mod, so feel free to "pipe up" if i'm not remembering correctly....
5) i think i mentioned earlier in the thread that you may be able to use a lower (or higher) value "collector to base" resistor...probably anywhere from 1meg to 6megs or so...i just used a 3meg becuase it was handy...but it works well....
6) Pete...a thought that may or may not work here...you could try tacking on a diode onto the input similar to what Joe did with the antiquity fuzz...might give a cool little bit of compression....
7) though i "personally" wouldnt need it, the SWTC might be a nice tone control to tack on the end...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
one of the things that i love about this booster is it's "simplicity"...i REALLY think it'd be one heck of a good, and useful, BEGINNER project for working with germanium transistors. it doesnt seem to be "too" picky about the type of germ tranny, and seems to work with a good range of hfe's....it sounds REALLY good with a variety of amps, and, like Pete mentioned, it doesn't get shrill" like a rangemaster. its also easy to build as NPN or PNP, without having to deal with switching around polarized caps, etc....just swap + and - leads from the battery....
like i mentioned...i'm gonna box up a Sparkle Boost and a Cream Pie in one 1590BB box...that should handle all my boosting "needs" :D
rock on.
AC
PS....
Pete and Jaydawg...did you happen to write down the hfe of the transistors youve used in the CP ? could be useful data....
3) for those who want a bit more control and temperature stability with the germanium trannies, using a fixed collector resistor (probably about 27k or so) and a 20k external pot would allow for easy bias adjustments when gigging in different temperatures....
And that pot works cool 'offbias w/Fuzz...
4) another "stability" thing to do would be, IIRC, put a a germ diode between base and emitter...i'm going from memory on this mod, so feel free to "pipe up" if i'm not remembering correctly....
My memory is sketchy too, using a diode with threshold same as transistor, reversed/connected to B/E helps prevent thermal runaway by limiting swing on one half of the waveform/hence reducing current?
5) i think i mentioned earlier in the thread that you may be able to use a lower (or higher) value "collector to base" resistor...probably anywhere from 1meg to 6megs or so...i just used a 3meg becuase it was handy...but it works well....
3m3 is 'big', makes bias EZ, sounds good, and were on hand.
6) Pete...a thought that may or may not work here...you could try tacking on a diode onto the input similar to what Joe did with the *antiquity fuzz...might give a cool little bit of compression.
...interesting..IIRC the *diode symbol was pointing at the transistor input?
7) though i "personally" wouldnt need it, the SWTC might be a nice tone control to tack on the end...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
one of the things that i love about this booster is it's "simplicity"...i REALLY think it'd be one heck of a good, and useful, BEGINNER project for working with germanium transistors. it doesnt seem to be "too" picky about the type of germ tranny, and seems to work with a good range of hfe's....it sounds REALLY good with a variety of amps.
Sounds great, nice RM alternative, fewer[est] parts.
Quote from: petemoore on October 24, 2006, 09:45:52 PM
Ya never know what's up with these Ge boosters.
@@Rate, I swapped in an SBxxx [lower gain than the 158, around ~79hfe]
good to know...hfe 79....i'm not a huge fan of the 158's, but sometimes you foind a really good one...ive got one in a hybrid FF that sounds great....the SBxxx trannies seem to be pretty good across the board....
Quote
I'm thinking of using a series fixed resistance on the input
i'm guessing 33k-47k would be more than enough to keep it from slamming the rails...unless youre using active pups...
QuoteI was thinking the transistor didn't like not having it's base to ground resistor, but it seems to like it!! I haven't even taken my base voltage, setting collector at 4.2v of 8.2 supply,
see ...thats the "conventional knowledge" that had kept me from trying to set up a germ this way....glad i tried it anyway...see, sometimes being an "idiot" DOES work out !
Quote
it 'popped' on low notes [hb's], raising the C voltage via 50k seemed to help, as well as reducing input gain. But none of that is really mattering...the sweetness zone has been found, it's 'competitive...instant hit here...
yep...its the classic case of "sometimes the best way engineering-wise isn't the "best sounding" way....i think that this rudimentary setup just sounds great...are there "better" ways to set up a germ tranny for boosting ? absolutely. do those ways "sound better? not necessarily.
Quote
here's the adjectives...but I think they're applicable...
there's a smooth presence to the high end, like the highs are compressed, this aspect sets it apart from my RM type, which has near danger high end...I was gathering LP capacitors to mod the RM when I decided to persue this build...nice build too, didn't take long, biases GE's easily, sounds great, A1 booster!
same as my observations...it didnt take me long at all to pull this off the breadboard and box it up !
AC
Quote from: petemoore on October 25, 2006, 12:23:14 AM
3) for those who want a bit more control and temperature stability with the germanium trannies, using a fixed collector resistor (probably about 27k or so) and a 20k external pot would allow for easy bias adjustments when gigging in different temperatures....
And that pot works cool 'offbias w/Fuzz...
my thoughts as well
Quote4) another "stability" thing to do would be, IIRC, put a a germ diode between base and emitter...i'm going from memory on this mod, so feel free to "pipe up" if i'm not remembering correctly....
My memory is sketchy too, using a diode with threshold same as transistor, reversed/connected to B/E helps prevent thermal runaway by limiting swing on one half of the waveform/hence reducing current?
hopefully one of the "smart guys" among us can help out...was it the "Plate to Plate" website that mentioned this mod ?
Quote5) i think i mentioned earlier in the thread that you may be able to use a lower (or higher) value "collector to base" resistor...probably anywhere from 1meg to 6megs or so...i just used a 3meg becuase it was handy...but it works well....
3m3 is 'big', makes bias EZ, sounds good, and were on hand.
yeah...might be worth trying other values, but really, i'm enjoying the sound "just the way it is"....
Quote
6) Pete...a thought that may or may not work here...you could try tacking on a diode onto the input similar to what Joe did with the *antiquity fuzz...might give a cool little bit of compression.
...interesting..IIRC the *diode symbol was pointing at the transistor input?
yep...might be a cool mod...then again, might not :D ...heres a link...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/analogalchemy/sch/antiquity.html (http://www.diystompboxes.com/analogalchemy/sch/antiquity.html)
AC
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 25, 2006, 12:29:07 AM
Quote4) another "stability" thing to do would be, IIRC, put a a germ diode between base and emitter...i'm going from memory on this mod, so feel free to "pipe up" if i'm not remembering correctly....
My memory is sketchy too, using a diode with threshold same as transistor, reversed/connected to B/E helps prevent thermal runaway by limiting swing on one half of the waveform/hence reducing current?
hopefully one of the "smart guys" among us can help out...was it the "Plate to Plate" website that mentioned this mod ?
Isn't that what you find in Fuzz centrals Rangeblaster?
Regards
Carsten
Quote from: cab42 on October 25, 2006, 02:46:26 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 25, 2006, 12:29:07 AM
Quote4) another "stability" thing to do would be, IIRC, put a a germ diode between base and emitter...i'm going from memory on this mod, so feel free to "pipe up" if i'm not remembering correctly....
My memory is sketchy too, using a diode with threshold same as transistor, reversed/connected to B/E helps prevent thermal runaway by limiting swing on one half of the waveform/hence reducing current?
hopefully one of the "smart guys" among us can help out...was it the "Plate to Plate" website that mentioned this mod ?
Isn't that what you find in Fuzz centrals Rangeblaster?
Regards
Carsten
I guess that's it!
I tried it in a NPN range i built, and it worked.
But i didn't have the same results in a PNP.
Quote from: cab42 on October 25, 2006, 02:46:26 AM
Isn't that what you find in Fuzz centrals Rangeblaster?
Regards
Carsten
yep...looks like it....
but heres where i remember seeing it.... http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2987/britface.html#tempcomp (http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2987/britface.html#tempcomp)
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 24, 2006, 10:44:54 AM
Quote from: alderbody on October 24, 2006, 03:39:49 AM
Since i will use a CV7112 too, i'd like to ask if the hfe is somewhat relevant to the sound.
What hfe was yours?
113
I think i have something in that area...
but i'll definitely try all my CV's, or any Ge i have!
Great job!
THANKS!!! :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
Quote from: alderbody on October 25, 2006, 03:28:29 AM
[
I guess that's it!
I tried it in a NPN range i built, and it worked.
But i didn't have the same results in a PNP.
for PNP, you have to reverse the diode...see the "above" link for details...
Quote from: alderbody on October 25, 2006, 03:34:06 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 24, 2006, 10:44:54 AM
Quote from: alderbody on October 24, 2006, 03:39:49 AM
Since i will use a CV7112 too, i'd like to ask if the hfe is somewhat relevant to the sound.
What hfe was yours?
113
I think i have something in that area...
but i'll definitely try all my CV's, or any Ge i have!
Great job!
THANKS!!! :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
no problem...please keep me posted as to your results, ok ?
thanks,
AC
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 25, 2006, 03:35:07 AM
for PNP, you have to reverse the diode...see the "above" link for details...
yes, i was just reading that article.
The PNP was a very long time ago when i wasn't very much into modding and trying different things.
what i actually did back then, was to lower the gain of the PNP, so that confused me and i dropped it...
...things have changed since that time.... ;)
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 25, 2006, 03:36:11 AM
no problem...please keep me posted as to your results, ok ?
thanks,
AC
will do! ;)
as soon as i get started. (gotta find the time)
thanks again!
I have a question. What roll is the 3M3 resistor between the Base and the Collector playing? Is it a biasing thing?
jaydawg
It can pull the base toward...V+...through the Collector resistor...pulls the base up closer to the collector...and is the only bias resistor on the base.
Being big like that means...it's a big input impedance [high Imp.]...big enough for my purposes, small amounts of HF presevervation may be wrung from even larger resistors [but why..the Ge rolls 'em off anyway if ears tell well of stories such as this], smaller values may rolloff high end, and would tend to start pulling the base up, that would in turn alter the assymetry of the clipping...etc.
It sets up and sounds real nice with the 3m3, 1m would probably do similar, less than 470k you might hear HF rolloff...and would start pulling harder I guess on the base bias up toward closer to Collector.
Pre-Fuzz uses are venerable, off-bias use into Fuzz added a nice pronounced 'Khick' to note attacks....that'd be the loud note 'pops' I described as getting [mostly with the 158 biased @~1/2v] which I found undesirable by itself as boost...through Fuzz it becomes cool !
Thank you Pete, that makes sense.
i'm tempted to build an NPN Si version, what do you guys think? Ge trannies are so expensive, and though i'm planning on doing this stuff commercially eventually, right now my investment needs to stay modest (plus my newbie self cannot figure out why anyone would build any circuit as positive ground, since i don't *yet* know of any benefits besides the added fun of wiring everything differently ps-wose :))what do you think about a 2n2222?
also, i was thinking this might make a great component to hardwire into the front of a muff fuzz or a muffmaster. it would likely still fit in a 1590b and would be a great fuzz with added boost. am i right, or do you guys think another fuzz would be better. i want to build it straight onto the same board, i'll call it "fuzz pie" or something.
I just replaced the 1K resistor at the emitter with a 5K pot. Worked great. Variable gain. It sounds like unity at 5K and a little louder that stock at 0 ohms. I'm having a great time with this thing. ;D
jaydawg
Hi All,
I perfed the Cream Pie last night after 2 two discouraging builds and a one month break . First off, I couldn't find 3M resistors at my electronics store so I used a 2M, I used an AC187 and a linear pot instead of an audio taper. Biased at 4.5v, the Pie only acts as a clean boost, it only starts to sound like the sound clips as I lower the collector voltage to the 1 to 0.5v range. At the lower point it starts to get compressed and a little odd sounding. It is ok to have it biased this low ?
Is the 2M resistor the culprit here ? Sould I add a 1M in parallel with the 2M ? Any other thoughts ? Seems way off compared to you guys.
Still, I can tell that there's some magic in there.
Chris
would this circuit work with a silicon transistor, and if so, which number?
I can't get my hands on Germs easily where I am but I can get Si from radioshack.
Looks like a great circuit and I'd love to build it!
Chris, I found that mine sounded best when biased at 3.5V.
i'll answer a few questions from different people....
where should i bias it? well, mine is biased at 5v, i've tried it anywhere from 4.2v-6.5v and had good, but different results, jaydawg has his biased at 3.5v (iirc)...so the answer is........................................<drum roll please>....................................since the circuit works with a wide range of bias voltages, use a pot or a trimpot and bias it where "your ears tell you it sounds best", regardless of what the voltage reading is...the old Joe Meek quote "If it *sounds* right, it *is* right" apllies here....
the 2 meg resistor should be fine, but would likely make it slightly tougher to bias (though still easy), have slightly less high end, and *may* have slightly less output....just guesses though....
silicon versions are certianly possible...i'd recommend trying 2N2369, 2N3903, 2N2222, etc for a better sound...lower hfe will likely sound better in a silicon transistor version...also, as someone previously mentioned, if youre gonna build a silicon version, try putting a small (47pF-100pF) cap in parallel with the 3meg resistor.
jaydawg...the 5k pot sounds interesting...do you get "use" from the whole range of the pot ?
also...stay tuned for more new Dragonfly creations, including a mosfet overdrive and possible a few other cool "EZ" oddball circuits !
rock.
AC
AC, Yes I'm getting use from the full range of the pot. It goes from around unity to a little hotter then stock.
I think the Cream Pie will make a great building block. It has responded very well to all the tweaks and mods I've tried. I reminds me of the mini-booster with its versatility. I also tried driving it with some other boosters and I sounded great.
Thanks again, this thing has kept me grinning' for the last couple of days.
jaydawg
Quote from: jaydawg on October 25, 2006, 11:31:30 PM
AC, Yes I'm getting use from the full range of the pot. It goes from around unity to a little hotter then stock.
I think the Cream Pie will make a great building block. It has responded very well to all the tweaks and mods I've tried. I reminds me of the mini-booster with its versatility. I also tried driving it with some other boosters and I sounded great.
Thanks again, this thing has kept me grinning' for the last couple of days.
jaydawg
any chance you've tried 2 Cream Pies in series, one driving the other ? :icon_mrgreen:
(could be fuzzy, overdrivey, germanium goodness ? )
AC
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 25, 2006, 11:40:10 PM
any chance you've tried 2 Cream Pies in series, one driving the other ? :icon_mrgreen:
(could be fuzzy, overdrivey, germanium goodness ? )
AC
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw your initial post. I've got first dibs on the name though...the "HEAVY CREAM"!!!
:)
Here's a vero layout for the Cream Pie:
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album26/cream_pie (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album26/cream_pie)
Andy
Quote from: hairyandy on October 26, 2006, 01:23:36 AM
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw your initial post. I've got first dibs on the name though...the "HEAVY CREAM"!!!
:icon_mrgreen:
OK, I've registered " DOUBLE CREAM " !!! :icon_wink:
MM
Cascading Creampies is the next logical step, but unfortunately I only have one GE on hand. I used a minibooster and then a rangmaster to drive it. They both sounded good although I liked the mini --> the creampie best.
Maybe the next thing to try would be a variable gain CP w/ a pot off of the emittor into a fixed gain CP with a 100K volume pot at the end. A little tone shaping and it could be magic. :icon_cool:
I'm enjoying the Cream Pie more and more. I've been using it after my thunderchief or red llama it makes both pedals thicker sounding and carms some of the highs.
I agree with Jimmy, the Cream Pie thickens everything up very nicely, it does almost the opposite of the Rangemaster. What I like to do is dime the volume control on the Pie and play with the volume on my guitar. It makes my old 50W Bass Master sound like it being pushed to the max. This is a very pleasing overdrive, great for 60's rock and blues.
Has anybody tried a PNP version yet ? I've got about 150 PNP germs looking for a good application and I think this circuit will really do the trick. Has any tried low gain transistors ?
Chris
Quote from: 8mileshigh on October 26, 2006, 09:14:44 PM
I agree with Jimmy, the Cream Pie thickens everything up very nicely, it does almost the opposite of the Rangemaster. What I like to do is dime the volume control on the Pie and play with the volume on my guitar. It makes my old 50W Bass Master sound like it being pushed to the max. This is a very pleasing overdrive, great for 60's rock and blues.
Has anybody tried a PNP version yet ? I've got about 150 PNP germs looking for a good application and I think this circuit will really do the trick. Has any tried low gain transistors ?
Chris
i think pete built a PNP version...you should be able to reference the thread....
i',m REALLY thinking about building some of these to sell....its such a cool little circuit...even if i decide to market the Cream Pie, i'll keep the schematic, layouts, etc here on the forum...my way of saying "thanks" to everyone here....
i've got a few more ideas "down the pipe"...
AC
Quote from: 8mileshigh on October 26, 2006, 09:14:44 PM
Has anybody tried a PNP version yet ? I've got about 150 PNP germs looking for a good application and I think this circuit will really do the trick. Has any tried low gain transistors ?
Chris
BTW...i'm not sure if Pete built his this way, but theres a very good possibility that this could be built as a PNP NEGATIVE GROUND effect without some of the issues of things like FF's and TB's...
you might breadboard it and see...
anyone tried a AC188 in it yet ?
AC
Has anyone else tried replacing the 1K off the emitter with a pot for variable gain yet? I works well.
jaydawg
p.s. I built mine with a PNP GE
I built it PNP Pos Gnd.
If I wanted neg. gnd. I would use an NPN Ge.
Powered by battery.
If I was wanting to use PS I'd first convert to NPN Ge Neg Gnd. and put a BFCapacitor across the v+/v_ rails.
I just breadboarded two cascading Cream Pies (the "Heavy Cream" as it will be called). Whoooooeee, does it ever get nice and gainy! With my Tele through my brown '62 Deluxe it can get a great crunchy, almost AC/DC kinda vibe. When both volumes are cranked it has tons of gain and gets all nice and squishy like good germanium trannys should.
I found that distortion went up as the bias got lower. I left the collector on both at around 3-3.5v. Between 4-5 it sounds great but it also cleans up a bit more. This is cool behavior because you could voice each channel a little different. I had all of the parts except the 3M resistor so I just used a 2M and it seems to work fine. I think I'll try putting Mark Hammer's "Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control" after the circuit because it could stand to have the high-end tamed a little.
All in all I think this thing is a great candidate for the main overdrive component on a pedal board and has lots of potential for tweaking and as a building block in other circuits. It sounds killer after a Rangemaster as well!
Good on ya Dragonfly!
...the other Andy
BTW, I used 2 NPN CV7112 trannys (military OC140s)
Quote from: hairyandy on October 27, 2006, 03:55:14 PM
I just breadboarded two cascading Cream Pies (the "Heavy Cream" as it will be called). Whoooooeee, does it ever get nice and gainy! With my Tele through my brown '62 Deluxe it can get a great crunchy, almost AC/DC kinda vibe. When both volumes are cranked it has tons of gain and gets all nice and squishy like good germanium trannys should.
I found that distortion went up as the bias got lower. I left the collector on both at around 3-3.5v. Between 4-5 it sounds great but it also cleans up a bit more. This is cool behavior because you could voice each channel a little different. I had all of the parts except the 3M resistor so I just used a 2M and it seems to work fine. I think I'll try putting Mark Hammer's "Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control" after the circuit because it could stand to have the high-end tamed a little.
All in all I think this thing is a great candidate for the main overdrive component on a pedal board and has lots of potential for tweaking and as a building block in other circuits. It sounds killer after a Rangemaster as well!
Good on ya Dragonfly!
...the other Andy
BTW, I used 2 NPN CV7112 trannys (military OC140s)
very cool brotha ! i KNEW you'd like this circuit...just a gut feeling....
thanks for the "report !
---the other Andy....
AC
Quote from: hairyandy on October 27, 2006, 03:55:14 PM
I think I'll try putting Mark Hammer's "Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control" after the circuit because it could stand to have the high-end tamed a little.
for those not wanting a tone control, you sould just run a small (probably between 470pF and .0022uF ) cap to ground at the end of the circuit to tame any high end artifacts...
AC
I breadboarded a similar circuit (w current FB) a month ago to compare the reaction to the a classic RM/LPB-1-type circuit.
The current FB circuit was a bit quiter, but the classic RM-circuit had way better reaction to guitar-vol. and picking changes.
All in all not a big difference, both delivered the same sound.
BTW:
I've done a recursive calculation to determine the optimal hfe for Dragonfly's Booster using the values in the schem and it should work best with hfe app. 400-500 (f. ex. BC559C or 2N1588). If you use a Ge-Trannie, the R-values must be re-calculated and adapted to the lower hfe of the Ge-trannie.
JHS
Just bread boarded this up and it's another Dragonfly classic :)
I tried it with some AC127s that I've got that are a bit leaky, I bought them off ebay and they'd obviously been picked through. They biased up no problem and sound really good, not much to add about the sound that other people haven't already said.
I also tried some 2N3053s which are low gain silicons and they sound great as well.
Quote from: MartyMart on October 26, 2006, 04:22:20 AM
OK, I've registered " DOUBLE CREAM " !!! :icon_wink:
MM
heh, great minds think alike - that was my initial reaction too ;D
Quote from: MetalGod on October 28, 2006, 11:35:56 AM
Quote from: MartyMart on October 26, 2006, 04:22:20 AM
OK, I've registered " DOUBLE CREAM " !!! :icon_wink:
MM
heh, great minds think alike - that was my initial reaction too ;D
Same here! ;D
OT...sorta
The CP has led me to make mods to 'better' Rangemaster for comparison.
Using a .0068 [down from .01uf] also for the Rangmaster input, also adding a cap/pot LP filter on the end of the Rangemaster, late last night, it's still early here in the morning, looking foreward to further testing the CP/RM/DIST+.
The only mod I have in mind for the CP is a switchable input cap, I have those 100kl pots on it's input/output....BC they were available..
Gain control 'under' the transistor instead of 'before' the transistor'd be cool...I generally try for no more than 2 regular pots per transistor.
I also revoiced the DIST+ with .0068 /sw/ .01 input cap.
looks a little like the first stage of this
http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/beebaa.gif
but with a less stable bias than the Roland
There are 3 common designs for a 1-trannie preamp, w voltage FB, current FB or voltage+current FB, that's why nearly every tranniestage look the same. A stable bias is good for a smooth sounding trannie, a looser bias for a stiff sounding trannie, all in all a matter of taste.
JHS
Quote from: JHS on October 28, 2006, 05:37:23 PM
.....all in all a matter of taste.
JHS
absolutely....if it sounds good, thats all that matters !
AC
Quote
any chance you've tried 2 Cream Pies in series, one driving the other ?
Not exactly the Creamy but I'm working on a 3 stage design Rc=10k, Re=5K-A pot, Rb-gnd=100k, Rfeedback=47K+47K, 1nF and a parallel LED from the junction of the 47K to gnd in the second stage, only a 0.1uF between stages, in & out. Transistors are 2sd352 npn hfe: 65 leakage: 200uA. They are very very low freq power trannies that's why the second stage trick. But can try with 2n388 or 2sd72k.
It is on the breadboard now so I could quickly adapt it to 3 Creamy stages. I guess that 0.1uf and maybe a 10k between stages can work.
mac
I built it today using HairyAndy's Vero layout. The tranny needs to be reversed in the Vero layout. I didn't get a chance to actually play it into my amp yet to give it a good run but the vero layout does work.
Quote from: dosmun on October 28, 2006, 11:28:49 PM
I built it today using HairyAndy's Vero layout. The tranny needs to be reversed in the Vero layout. I didn't get a chance to actually play it into my amp yet to give it a good run but the vero layout does work.
i mentioned to him about the tranny the other day, so i'd imagine he'll get it changed when he has a chance....
theres also a vero layout in my gallery..
AC
**********UPDATED VERO LAYOUT**********
This layout has the "gain pot" mod, as well as power supply filtering and reverse polarity protection...
Enjoy !
AC
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/27251525-CREAMPIEV2VERO.GIF)
is there any rebiasing to be done if you use a Si tranny instead?
Quote from: Barcode80 on October 29, 2006, 12:18:43 PM
is there any rebiasing to be done if you use a Si tranny instead?
i would imagine that you'll still be able to dial it in just fine with the trimmer...
:s,
I was going to test out the PNP version yesterday.
Could you do a PCB layout of the PCB of the Cream Pie VERSION 2 please ?
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 29, 2006, 09:46:01 AM
Quote from: dosmun on October 28, 2006, 11:28:49 PM
I built it today using HairyAndy's Vero layout. The tranny needs to be reversed in the Vero layout. I didn't get a chance to actually play it into my amp yet to give it a good run but the vero layout does work.
i mentioned to him about the tranny the other day, so i'd imagine he'll get it changed when he has a chance....
theres also a vero layout in my gallery..
AC
Yeah, sorry about that. So much for attention to detail! I normally label the trannys just so there's no confusion but I forgot this time. I'll get to it eventually...
Andy
This looks like it's developed into a heck of a little circuit :icon_cool:
Here's a PCB layout for the "Cream Pie V2" !
CREAM PIE V2 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album91)
have fun !
AC
I just bradboarded the CP. Sounds nice from the start, the mids are just fine. Love it. I used 2sd352, ac187, 2sd72, 2n388 and neg gnd 2sb172 PNP. They all sound terrific.
Well done Dragonfly.
BTW, make place on the PCB layout for a 1k-A pot and a 22uF resistor to control gain and a spdt switch to connect a back to back pair of Ge diodes to gnd at the output ;D
mac
Quote from: mac on October 29, 2006, 03:24:34 PM
I just bradboarded the CP. Sounds nice from the start, the mids are just fine. Love it. I used 2sd352, ac187, 2sd72, 2n388 and neg gnd 2sb172 PNP. They all sound terrific.
Well done Dragonfly.
glad ya like it !
Quote
BTW, make place on the PCB layout for a 1k-A pot and a 22uF resistor to control gain and a spdt switch to connect a back to back pair of Ge diodes to gnd at the output ;D
mac
the "Cream Pie V2" layout uses a 5k pot to ground ...i could possibly "add" a place for a cap as well....
as for the Ge diodes....could be interesting...you got soundclips ?
AC
I breadboarded the CB last night, and it sounds very good. I used a OC140/CV7112 It biased to app 4.5V at around 29K.
I havent measured my transistors so I have no idea of the hfe, so I'm planning to try a few. Does anyone have an idea how big the variation is?
Writing this I came to think of this post by Aron about the fact that OC140's are symmetrical. The red dot can be emitter or collector but with different gain. Another thing to play with. I also think I will try a 100K pot on the output.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=45124.msg329454#msg329454 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=45124.msg329454#msg329454)
Dragonfly, thanks for all your work.
Regards
Carsten
Carsten, I remember that thread, I've had great results using the OC140's with red dot as "emitter"
only to find that the dot means "collector" !!
Just shows you that the "symetrical" idea is true, mil spec and all :D
MM
Quote
as for the Ge diodes....could be interesting...you got soundclips ?
I recorded with the built in mic of the computer... add mp3 conversion and just crap. ???
But I have something better... For those who want 2 slices of cream pies just out of the oven:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/cream_pies_1.gif
Just a demo but can be easily modded. Hope you like it.
mac
My head is spinning!
There are so many designs coming out from this idea it's incredible.
I think Andy has created a Monster here!! :icon_cool:
Quote from: mac on October 29, 2006, 05:19:43 PM
Quote
as for the Ge diodes....could be interesting...you got soundclips ?
I recorded with the built in mic of the computer... add mp3 conversion and just crap. ???
But I have something better... For those who want 2 slices of cream pies just out of the oven:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/cream_pies_1.gif
Just a demo but can be easily modded. Hope you like it.
mac
got the schemo...what about putting the SWTC in between stages ?
didnt get the demo yet... :(
AC
Quote from: markm on October 29, 2006, 05:34:21 PM
My head is spinning!
There are so many designs coming out from this idea it's incredible.
I think Andy has created a Monster here!! :icon_cool:
you''re right....i think i may have created a monster ! might be because, so far, it seems like this basic circuit works great with such a wide variety of transistors, is easily biased, works PNP or NPN, and sounds great with a wide variety of amps/guitars....plus it seems like a great "building block" ....
hmmm..cream pie driving a mosfet stage anyone?
AC
Quote from: MartyMart on October 29, 2006, 04:16:09 PM
Carsten, I remember that thread, I've had great results using the OC140's with red dot as "emitter"
only to find that the dot means "collector" !!
Just shows you that the "symetrical" idea is true, mil spec and all :D
MM
First time I used one, I didn't know the pinout and just plugged it in. I thought I was lucky, but that was a kind of win-win situation.
I have a colleague, an elderly gentleman who was originally trained as an electronic tech in the airforce in the sixties. He told me that if you scrape of the paint of the OC140 you can use it as a phototransistor!
Regards
Carsten
Quote
what about putting the SWTC in between stages ?
Right away!
Quote
hmmm..cream pie driving a mosfet stage anyone?
I don't have a mosfet but some fets. Can try CP > fet or fet > CP.
mac
i posted in another thread about the tube sound OD soindg a bit brittle to me. what do you guys think the results of combining it in a box with the cream pie would be? i'm thinking it might fatten it up a bit, but i'm not sure...
I glad to see the gain pot idea took off. I thought it worked well. I was also playing around with using a 4.7u on a switch off the emitter to ground as a mid boost.
jaydawg
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 29, 2006, 01:25:09 PM
Here's a PCB layout for the "Cream Pie V2" !
CREAM PIE V2 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album91)
have fun !
AC
Andy - looks like the diode is floating in space... should be connected to the trimmed side of the +9V rail - right? I built a pair of these circuits together (liked the idea of driving one into the other - or using one at a time) and get VERY low output...but I also don't have any NPN Ge trannies... the 2N2222's aren't quite the same... anyone have a good Si recommendation? I'll get to the surplus store this week and pick up some reasonable trannies.
The soundclips are great - and the circuit is simple. Great job...as usual!
Mike
Mike , these may be helpful :
2N2369 ( Si NPN low gain metal can )
2N3903 ( Si NPN low/med gain plastic top )
2N3114 ( Si NPN low gain large metal can )
2N2270 ( Si NPN low/med large metal can )
2N4401 ( Si NPN med gain plastic top )
The "warmest/Ge" sounding are the 2369 and 3114 but still not up with an
OC140 (CV7112) - aron and smallbear have them, HIGHLY recommended !
Marty.
Thanks Marty. I tried 2N4401's this morning and still get almost zero output...
What about the 2.7k resistor from the E to Ground? Missing from the PCB but present on the vero...
For those who want to use Si... forget it. Even leaky Ge will sound better. I have tried with silicons, 2369, 3440, 1613 all low gain but they all luck the typical Ge signature.
BTW, I am posting the Cream Pies Ge > FET preview version with tone control soon.
mac
Quote from: mydementia on October 29, 2006, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 29, 2006, 01:25:09 PM
Here's a PCB layout for the "Cream Pie V2" !
CREAM PIE V2 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album91)
have fun !
AC
Andy - looks like the diode is floating in space... should be connected to the trimmed side of the +9V rail - right?
yep...the layouts are fixed now...thanks !
Quote
I built a pair of these circuits together (liked the idea of driving one into the other - or using one at a time) and get VERY low output...but I also don't have any NPN Ge trannies... the 2N2222's aren't quite the same... anyone have a good Si recommendation? I'll get to the surplus store this week and pick up some reasonable trannies.
The soundclips are great - and the circuit is simple. Great job...as usual!
Mike
i havent tried a silicon in it, so you'll probably just have to "experiment" a bit...sorry i',m not more help on this...
AC
Quote from: mydementia on October 30, 2006, 10:23:16 AM
What about the 2.7k resistor from the E to Ground? Missing from the PCB but present on the vero...
i forgot to remove it when i decided to add the gain pot...the 2k7 is the value for the LED resistor...
here....
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/99638635-CREAMPIEV2VERO.GIF)
Quote
i havent tried a silicon in it, so you'll probably just have to "experiment" a bit...sorry i',m not more help on this...
Si sound good, but after hearing the Ge version you feel something is missing.
Si will bias around Rc: 33 - 47K if Vbe: 0.6V and hfe: 100.
mac
Cream Pie and Fet stage with tone control:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/creampie_fet1.gif
mac
Quote from: mac on October 30, 2006, 06:12:29 PM
Cream Pie and Fet stage with tone control:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/creampie_fet1.gif
mac
looks cool...hows it sound ?
i hope you dont mind...i "appropriated" your drawing and "butchered" it up so i could post an idea that just came to me...this was the quickest way to draw it out...if you'd like me to take the picture down, just let me know !
i'm pretty sure some value adjustments will be necessary...but it could be interesting...
AC
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/CREAMDRIVE.GIF)
Hey Andy - looks like the pop cap and protection diode need to come off the other side of the trimmer on the PCB... I got NO output until I cut these two out of my circuits. Makes sense...
I got some NPN Ge trannies today - pretty sweet sounds, I must agree! I'm going to futz with the circuits some more...might add a switchable Ge Diode pair at the end of the circuit to soften it up a bit...maybe a BMP Tone control... Fun stuff.
Mike
I built the Ver2 tonight after trying ver1 last ngiht. This thing kills into my already driven Rivera. Big fat and RRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!
This thing just keeps on evolving!
Very Cool Andy.....(and guys!).
I can't wait to start building this thing but I gotta finish up some stuff first.
Great Job fellas! :icon_biggrin:
I have an OC44 waiting to do something so this is definitely my next build. Thanks, Andy!
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 30, 2006, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: mydementia on October 30, 2006, 10:23:16 AM
What about the 2.7k resistor from the E to Ground? Missing from the PCB but present on the vero...
i forgot to remove it when i decided to add the gain pot...the 2k7 is the value for the LED resistor...
here....
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/99638635-CREAMPIEV2VERO.GIF)
Does anyone already have a pcb layout for this one?
There are 2 that I know of....
One in Dragonfly's Gallery and one in my Gallery.
Thanks again Andy, I can't wait to build the darn thing!!
Andrew, could you give a read to "Avatar specifications:" in the "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST" sticky?
Quote from: R.G. on October 31, 2006, 07:43:03 AM
Andrew, could you give a read to "Avatar specifications:" in the "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST" sticky?
sorry...it was a "halloween" thing....
Quote
looks cool...hows it sound ?
IMO, the creamp pie/fet sounds a little better than the two cream pies. I am going to try the Fet > Cream pie.
Sorry I can not make a good recording... (where is my mic?) ???
Quote
i hope you dont mind...i "appropriated" your drawing and "butchered" it up so i could post an idea that just came to me...this was the quickest way to draw it out...if you'd like me to take the picture down, just let me know !
No hay problema!
---
Andrew, maybe reducing the tone pot to 50K-A or 100K-A and changing the cap to ground may increase the gain a little. The 250K-A pot was the minimun value that prevented a Fet from being over saturated. In the case of two Ge it was around 50K, I used 68K in my proto. Going to try this afternoon.
mac
dragonfly, i printed your PCB layout to transfer, which i will do later today, but i was curious about the printing. the printout seems a bit too spaced out for the components. what can i do to make sure it is printed at the proper size?
This is the Cream Pie version I'm building soon:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/cream_pie1.gif
The texture pot adds some amount o fnice dirt but reduces the final volume at min.
mac
Quote from: Barcode80 on October 31, 2006, 02:47:49 PM
dragonfly, i printed your PCB layout to transfer, which i will do later today, but i was curious about the printing. the printout seems a bit too spaced out for the components. what can i do to make sure it is printed at the proper size?
just a guess, but if you copy the image and paste it into "ms paint", you should be able to reduce it...my guess is that 50-60% of the size shown should be ok...but the good thing about printing it in paint first, is that you can print it out and compare the "layout size" to the "component size"....
Quote from: mac on October 31, 2006, 02:51:43 PM
This is the Cream Pie version I'm building soon:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/cream_pie1.gif
The texture pot adds some amount o fnice dirt but reduces the final volume at min.
mac
very cool Mac...
have you thought about making the 10Uf cap (gain) switchable ? i havent tried the differences with and without the feedback cap...
Quote
have you thought about making the 10Uf cap (gain) switchable ? i havent tried the differences with and without the feedback cap...
There is no need for that in my version, but can not control temperature changes. But the trim can be replaced by an external pot.
In yours you use a 5K pot to slghtly alter the collector and emitter voltage. A switch is needed but no control over distortion.
How to do both things without adding more parts?
The bypass cap adds a nice soft distortion, and the diodes, Ge or Si, can be used to shape the sound.
mac
The Creampie seems to have almost endless possibilities!
I just ordered 2 of the NPN Germs that Aron has for some Creampie experiments.
Great Job fellas 8)
OK, time to "chip in" with my Cream Pie results/mod
Used the V2 vero as a startpoint but added 3 more strips/holes for flexibility.
No sockets left, so checked a few OC140's for hfe/leakage ( only found 2 bad ones from 50 so far )
and settled on a nice 141 hfe suspect.
I used a croc clip and soldered the OC140 very carefully !!
R1/R2 both 2M2 - all I had.
10k B gain pot - all I had
Lug 2 of gain pot to + side of 10uf cap, - side of cap and lug 1 to ground.
From C2, I wired a pair of vintage Ge diodes to ground (CV7130/1N90)
Voltage at collector is 6.2v.
Without the diodes the circuit is great, with some nice breakup near 3/4 gain pot
but I have a few Ge "clean" boosters etc, so added the diodes.
With diodes there is some volume loss but nothing too bad, it's still clean with a HB gtr
to around 1/2 gain pot, then the diodes start to come in after that - V NICE :D
Using a strat, the breakup comes a bit later at 3/4 gain.
Great/simple little circuit and using a Ge tranny AND diodes has some "mojo: about it,
it's a very pleasing warm sound, which suits a valve amp VERY well indeed :D
Cheers Andy,
Marty.
Thanks Andrew for this very nice boost.
This is a really good one!
Great with a strat in a cranked amp, adds the mids that are sometimes missing.
I tried it with an ac 127 (hfe 110), with a 1k pot on the emitter. Found interesting to keep the 22 uf cap on the center lug , and to switch it in and out for tonal and distortion variation. And, after a try with an active emg hb, adding a smooth control (like the si axis fuzz from fuzz central) give you even more versatility. I have used a 100 k lin pot for it.
Thanks again and thumbs up, this is a must.
Olivier.
Quote from: OG on November 01, 2006, 09:06:31 AM
Thanks Andrew for this very nice boost.
This is a really good one!
Great with a strat in a cranked amp, adds the mids that are sometimes missing.
I tried it with an ac 127 (hfe 110), with a 1k pot on the emitter. Found interesting to keep the 22 uf cap on the center lug , and to switch it in and out for tonal and distortion variation.
thats what i was mentioning earlier...would be cool to put on a footswitch...kinda like an "extra gear" :icon_mrgreen:
Quote
And, after a try with an active emg hb, adding a smooth control (like the si axis fuzz from fuzz central) give you even more versatility. I have used a 100 k lin pot for it.
i hadnt tried it with actives...i would this the smooth pot would definitely help with high output pups...either that, or a resistor on the input....maybe 47k-68k or so....
Quote
Thanks again and thumbs up, this is a must.
Olivier.
glad you like it....its a dreadfully easy circuit that sounds really good ....
AC
I added an input cap blend pot last night but then had to go trick or treating with my son so I never got a chance to give it a real good listen. I used a .1 cap and a 1uF for the caps on the blend pot. I will know more tonight.
I just added a kind of "dual path" to mine, had space for a volume recovery/boost
using an MPSA18, taps of the OC140 emitter before the cap/diodes.
This comes back at the output - after cap/diodes and adds back some clean along
with the slightly crunchy diode path, sounds great !
MPSA18 has a 10k from 9v to C
390k/100k to B from 9v/ground
2k2 from E to ground
47n in to base and 22n out from emitter back to circuit output.
Bit of a squeeze and slightly messy, but it works !
MM.
A brighter high input Z Cream Pie:
http://geocities.com/guitarfxs/images/fet_cream_pie.gif
Enjoy.
mac
Guys.....
All I can say about the V2 version of the Creampie is HOLY SHITE! :o
This build is FANTASTIC!
I played with it a bit with my Tele and man, it adds a little bit of "Breakin' up Tele Twang" that would make Brent Mason cry
like a freight train!!
My layout is now Verified and this unit is gonna get an enclosure as it is destined to go down in DIY history.
If you haven't built this one yet, don't hesitate as it is a Superb sounding build that is as simple as it is toneful!!
I can't say enough good about this one Andy, what a great piece of work!!
Thank you from the bottom of my Tele-Twangin' - Country-Pickin' heart! :icon_biggrin:
(BTW, I built mine using one of the NPN Germ trannies from Aron's store located here on this very site!)
Quote from: markm on November 01, 2006, 12:59:41 PM
Guys.....
All I can say about the V2 version of the Creampie is HOLY SHITE! :o
This build is FANTASTIC!
I played with it a bit with my Tele and man, it adds a little bit of "Breakin' up Tele Twang" that would make Brent Mason cry
like a freight train!!
My layout is now Verified and this unit is gonna get an enclosure as it is destined to go down in DIY history.
If you haven't built this one yet, don't hesitate as it is a Superb sounding build that is as simple as it is toneful!!
I can't say enough good about this one Andy, what a great piece of work!!
Thank you from the bottom of my Tele-Twangin' - Country-Pickin' heart! :icon_biggrin:
(BTW, I built mine using one of the NPN Germ trannies from Aron's store located here on this very site!)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
i'm right there with ya on the "twang factor", my friend !
AC
Quote from: markm on November 01, 2006, 12:59:41 PM
I played with it a bit with my Tele and man, it adds a little bit of "Breakin' up Tele Twang" that would make Brent Mason cry
like a freight train!!
i really "should" go back and do some decent sound clips...i just threw the others together quickly, and they don't really do the CP justice....
if you get a chance, i'd love to hear soundclips with your setup Mark....
AC
BTW...where did you set your bias voltage at, if you dont mind my asking.... ?
Quote from: Dragonfly on November 01, 2006, 05:42:03 PM
i really "should" go back and do some decent sound clips...i just threw the others together quickly, and they don't really do the CP justice....
if you get a chance, i'd love to hear soundclips with your setup Mark....
AC
I am not setup for clips at the moment and I really should get my arse in gear and do something about it but, I'm to busy building effect, and doing layouts......PLUS reading your schematics and layouts! :icon_lol:
I will get to it though.
Quote from: Dragonfly on November 01, 2006, 05:42:03 PM
BTW...where did you set your bias voltage at, if you dont mind my asking.... ?
I don't mind at all.
Bias was done the old-fashioned "country" way......by
ear :icon_lol:
I'll break out the DMM and see if I can tell ya.
Holy Smokes,
I put the DMM on it and the Bias is at 6.9!!
Sounds perty darn good though!
Quote from: markm on November 01, 2006, 07:03:45 PM
Holy Smokes,
I put the DMM on it and the Bias is at 6.9!!
Sounds perty darn good though!
interesting....
so basically, we have people that like it biased as low as 3 volts, and as high as 6.9 volts !
shocking, really.... :icon_eek:
i guess you could really "build a case" for making the "bias" trim pot an "external pot".....
AC
Quote from: Dragonfly on November 01, 2006, 07:07:00 PM
interesting....
so basically, we have people that like it biased as low as 3 volts, and as high as 6.9 volts !
shocking, really.... :icon_eek:
i guess you could really "build a case" for making the "bias" trim pot an "external pot".....
AC
....ummmm, I was thinking that same thought.
I'd have to mess around with some resistors so that the bias pot doesn't completely shut down the circuit.
Mine, at the extreme just kills it.
One thing I do that maybe alot of y'all don't do is, I roll back my volume on the Tele a bit at times for different tones which maybe why when done by ear, it is biased a bit hotter.
When the volume on the guitar is wide open, it gets pretty gritty but, real....well....creamie!!
BTW...I just posted a SUPER SMALL layout for the CPV2 in my gallery... http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album94 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album94)
this layout is TINY !
AC
Small is right.
They make postage stamps bigger than that! :icon_wink:
Quote from: markm on November 01, 2006, 07:51:42 PM
Small is right.
They make postage stamps bigger than that! :icon_wink:
:icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: markm on November 01, 2006, 07:51:42 PM
Small is right.
They make postage stamps bigger than that! :icon_wink:
btw...i had this "vision" of using this layout as a booster / drive that was "in" a guitar...mounted in the control cavity ! thats why i came up with the "tiny" layout....
yes...i'm sick....
AC
awesome! that is teeny!
Quote from: coffyrock on November 01, 2006, 10:00:37 PM
awesome! that is teeny!
probably a tighter squeeze than anyone will ever need...but hey...maybe.. :D
Here's what I'm thinking now.
This Cream Pie is an A1 Booster w/ lotsa character, performs extremely well with my little tube amp. *Quite a dynamic affiar they get going on @ med/high volume levels especially, quiet notes/volume attenuations illiciting a much-cleaned-up- [but still different than bypass] sound compared to inputs of higher levels, guitar turned up/hard note attacks/Chords, which can go right up to 'distorter' realm. *Depending on input levels.
High marks for low parts count, excellent tone, I'm finding it quite useful as Boost [and Fuzz/OD pre-boost], compares very favorably to other Ge boosters I have/have tried...gets LotS of usage!
Quote from: petemoore on November 02, 2006, 06:05:56 PM
Here's what I'm thinking now.
This Cream Pie is an A1 Booster w/ lotsa character, performs extremely well with my little tube amp. *Quite a dynamic affiar they get going on @ med/high volume levels especially, quiet notes/volume attenuations illiciting a much-cleaned-up- [but still different than bypass] sound compared to inputs of higher levels, guitar turned up/hard note attacks/Chords, which can go right up to 'distorter' realm. *Depending on input levels.
High marks for low parts count, excellent tone, I'm finding it quite useful as Boost [and Fuzz/OD pre-boost], compares very favorably to other Ge boosters I have/have tried...gets LotS of usage!
you know me Pete...i love these easy little circuits :)
i have the feeling that the Cream Pie could end up as a building block for many other circuits...it boosts a FF REALLY well, so a 3 tranny fuzz with the CP as a booster stage is certainly viable...i'm also thinking as a "lower gain" recovery stage after a EQ section in a opamp distortion pedal could be really cool too...lots of possibilities....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and to those just thinking about building this circuit....
one thing i should mention...its important to use good quality parts in these "low parts count" circuits...MF resistors, good caps, etc definitely go a long way toward keeping things quiet and sounding good....
enjoy !
AC
I have the feeling that the Cream Pie could end up as a building block for many other circuits...it boosts a FF REALLY well.
Practice tonight I brought a couple 9V's the CP and the FF, had excellent control on gain with mosly just guitar volume, the CP doing all the Clean to Dirt gains, CP>FF covering a wide range of gain to thick Fuzz using light/heavy touch and volume control and coil tap attenuations.
Lots of picking dynamics @ lower gains.
so a 3 tranny fuzz with the CP as a booster stage is certainly viable...i'm also thinking as a "lower gain" recovery stage after a EQ section in a opamp distortion pedal could be really cool too...lots of possibilities....
My RM boosts harder, probably because of the E bypass cap or something else about it, neither the RM or CP get set at full.
I am using the 10kL/.1uf 'TC' a little all the time, more makes for really nice Thicker Cream.
Maybe this bends the rules, I think they needed bent the whole time and we just figured it out !!!
I tried that SBxxx in numerous RM configs, I have the testboard with about all trimpots 'n sockets...never occured to me to substantially increase, or in this CP's case, eliminate the Base to Ground bias resistor entirely, probably because the RM's always exhibited a sharp brightness...increasing input Z would logically mean retaining more high end where it's already enough...BTW and OT...I did add the TC [20kl/.1uf] to the RM so I could make a better comparison.
Anyway, after whipping the CP Board up, the SBxxx for the first time in all the GE boost encarnations exhibited excellent and substantially greater distortion characteristics.
"X" factors...
HB pickups, neck PU has coil tap, 400k pots neck pot has HF Bleed cap.
Little 5e3 tube amp @ 15w > 2x12'' Alnico Blue/Fender special design in Antique pine cab [which has resonance ~similar to an accoustic's body].
The FF is close to Axis Face GE.
Might be a bit of overkill for such a simple circuit, but what about adding a small microprocessor like the PIC series and two 7 segment displays, and have the micro sample the bias voltage, convert to digital, then read it out to the 7 segment display? Kind of a novelty thing, but that way the bias voltage can be varied on a pot and it'll look cool as all hell, varying the bias pot and getting a voltage readout.
I might do this just for the ha-ha's, and for the potential extra credit in my microprocessor class I'm taking :)
BTW,
I have a nice graphic in mind for the enclosure of my Creampie.
If it works out well, I may make it available to whomever wants to use it!
Stay tuned! :icon_wink:
Quote from: joelap on November 03, 2006, 10:44:20 AM
Might be a bit of overkill for such a simple circuit, but what about adding a small microprocessor like the PIC series and two 7 segment displays, and have the micro sample the bias voltage, convert to digital, then read it out to the 7 segment display? Kind of a novelty thing, but that way the bias voltage can be varied on a pot and it'll look cool as all hell, varying the bias pot and getting a voltage readout.
I might do this just for the ha-ha's, and for the potential extra credit in my microprocessor class I'm taking :)
it'd be easier, and in my opinion, cooler (more in the simplicity spirit of the CP) to do it with a analog VU meter...i'd love to see the digital readout however :D
i like the idea.... ;D joe gagan used it on his nitroburner, IIRC...
AC
Quote from: markm on November 03, 2006, 12:22:43 PM
BTW,
I have a nice graphic in mind for the enclosure of my Creampie.
If it works out well, I may make it available to whomever wants to use it!
Stay tuned! :icon_wink:
coming from you, brother, its gonna be killer !
Quote from: Dragonfly on November 03, 2006, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: joelap on November 03, 2006, 10:44:20 AM
Might be a bit of overkill for such a simple circuit, but what about adding a small microprocessor like the PIC series and two 7 segment displays, and have the micro sample the bias voltage, convert to digital, then read it out to the 7 segment display? Kind of a novelty thing, but that way the bias voltage can be varied on a pot and it'll look cool as all hell, varying the bias pot and getting a voltage readout.
I might do this just for the ha-ha's, and for the potential extra credit in my microprocessor class I'm taking :)
it'd be easier, and in my opinion, cooler (more in the simplicity spirit of the CP) to do it with a analog VU meter...i'd love to see the digital readout however :D
i like the idea.... ;D joe gagan used it on his nitroburner, IIRC...
AC
haha YES! I almost forgot about that possibility! That would be freaking awesome!
Do they have one that'll measure voltage between 0 and 9 or 10 volts?, I've never used one before so I'd be completely lost in that area. Would a VU automatically measure the voltage, or would Ineed to feed a microcontroller first?
Quote from: joelap on November 03, 2006, 01:10:02 PM
haha YES! I almost forgot about that possibility! That would be freaking awesome!
Do they have one that'll measure voltage between 0 and 9 or 10 volts?, I've never used one before so I'd be completely lost in that area. Would a VU automatically measure the voltage, or would Ineed to feed a microcontroller first?
yep...you can get 'em....check joe's nitroburner for details...its easy to implement....
AC
i don't think you need a microcontroller though. remember, vu meters have been around much longer than microcontrollers...
yep...you can get 'em....check joe's nitroburner for details...its easy to implement....
The wiring would be easy, I have VU's big/small/vintage/modern-ish-er, many indicator bar types. The part I stumped on is getting the hole mount VU thing happening. VU w/backlight would make a real neat pedal 'medallion, taken apart, a name plate could be rubber cemented on the face...
Quote from: petemoore on November 03, 2006, 04:52:11 PM
yep...you can get 'em....check joe's nitroburner for details...its easy to implement....
The wiring would be easy, I have VU's big/small/vintage/modern-ish-er, many indicator bar types. The part I stumped on is getting the hole mount VU thing happening. VU w/backlight would make a real neat pedal 'medallion, taken apart, a name plate could be rubber cemented on the face...
round VU meters are easy...use a hole saw in the appropriate sixe....
rectanle or square...use a drill bit to get the corners, hacksaw and file for straight lines...
"backlit" would be cool :)
AC
use a hole saw in the appropriate sixe....
Wood would be EZ, metal...dunno...never tried cause I feared it catching as it came through one side of the hole, thick metal still on the other side [enough to make it hard to keep going with the bit/knock the rest out, I avoided this task when tube amp chassis building by paralleling two lipped edge metal sheets/spanning the sockets between these for exl. cooling and nice EZ/quick/sturdy [enough for my R'n R] mount.
rectanle or square...use a drill bit to get the corners, hacksaw and file for straight lines...I suppose not too bad, but I don't know about the corners drilled letting a hacksaw blade width begin.
Wood grain is still my favorite color !!!
Quote from: petemoore on November 03, 2006, 06:19:09 PM
use a hole saw in the appropriate sixe....
Wood would be EZ, metal...dunno...never tried cause I feared it catching as it came through one side of the hole, thick metal still on the other side [enough to make it hard to keep going with the bit/knock the rest out, I avoided this task when tube amp chassis building by paralleling two lipped edge metal sheets/spanning the sockets between these for exl. cooling and nice EZ/quick/sturdy [enough for my R'n R] mount.
use a drill press...go slow...lubricate....
rectanle or square...use a drill bit to get the corners, hacksaw and file for straight lines...I suppose not too bad, but I don't know about the corners drilled letting a hacksaw blade width begin.
Wood grain is still my favorite color !!!
[/quote]
:)
version 3.0 ...new gain control, new "fat" control :) ...
AC
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/CREAMPIE3.0.GIF)
You had to go and do this didn't you! :icon_lol:
NICE!!
Quote from: markm on November 03, 2006, 07:24:48 PM
You had to go and do this didn't you! :icon_lol:
NICE!!
i figure we should have at least 46 permutations of this circuit by next weekend...
AC
sound clips of v3.0??
Seriously, I have all the parts I need to build this but I think I might wait until 2007 until the final version comes in. :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: bean on November 03, 2006, 11:21:25 PM
Seriously, I have all the parts I need to build this but I think I might wait until 2007 until the final version comes in. :icon_biggrin:
each one is good for different things...as an "all-arounder", go for V2....the 3.0 version cghanges the gain staging somewhat to compensate for volume loss at the "fat" stage...
AC
p.s....sorry...i like "tweaking" things for different needs i have....
Hey Andy, please stop. I didn't have the chance to build the 1.0 version, and you're at the 3.0 :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:. If everything goes alright, I will build mine in this week.
Quote from: Marcos - Munky on November 04, 2006, 12:05:19 AM
Hey Andy, please stop. I didn't have the chance to build the 1.0 version, and you're at the 3.0 :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:. If everything goes alright, I will build mine in this week.
ah, hell...did you see the versions posted by the other guys ?!?!?! :o
AC
Yeah, I saw them. But I want the original first :P :icon_mrgreen:.
I will start with sorry but I just need to be shure.
I only have handfull of pnp trannies.
So all I have to do is change the ground and 9v and change the 47uf around.
Thanks fine people of stompbox land.
Hey guys.
I thought I'd throw together a dual board for this awesome sounding circuit.
The idea is to use one CP to get the tones showcased in this thread and the second CP circuit as a boost/lead/OD/crunch thing. I set up a pair of DPDT's (with Milennium2N bypass circuits) for my original attempt at V1 - this layout will be MUCH more compact...so I'm going to rebuild it. I also brought the trimmers outside because there are a lot of awesome tones through the sweep - would be nice to have access to them. I'll probably build this rendition of the CP next weekend. If anyone beats me to it, let me know how it works. I took Andrew's 'postage stamp' layout and rotated it 90degrees - then I made the second circuit a mirror image - should put all the I/O in the 'right' place.
(http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPieV2%2DDualSplatterR0.gif)
(http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPieV2%2DDualSplatterR0%2DPNP.gif)
DIY file:
http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPieV2%2DDualSplatterR0.diy (http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPieV2%2DDualSplatterR0.diy)
One of the two filter caps can be eliminated [and work the same if the one left is doubled in UF Value]
And only one of the RPProtection diode [4001] is needed.
One cap/diode is needed for filter and RPProtection.
Thanks Pete - I was in the 'two circuits' mindset...so we could just change C1 to 100uF and elminate C4 and D2...cool...
Shounld the 2nd transistor be reversed?
Good eye Marcos - this is one of those things I would have realized upon building.
I updated the images above.
Thanks again for your feedback...looking forward to building this one.
Mike
Ooooo.... I just put in a pair of Ge diodes (to ground) on the output of a single CP - VERY NICE!!!! Might build in a switching option to my layout.
Quote
Ooooo.... I just put in a pair of Ge diodes (to ground) on the output of a single CP - VERY NICE!!!! Might build in a switching option to my layout.
There is a schem I posted somewhere in the thread. Instead of a switch I suggest a pot in series with the Ge diodes. This way the effect of the diodes can be changed smoothly.
mac
Awesome idea mac...
I've updated my layout with a switchable Ge diode pair and an optional 'Depth' control (for the Diodes). Now I'm REALLY ready to build this thing!!
Here are the files...let me know if anyone tries it this week (I won't have time to make PCB's until next weekend...doing another SansAmp for a friend...).
(http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPiev2%2DDualR1.gif)
(http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPieDualV2%2DWithM2NSwitching%2DPCB2a.bmp)
I added a pair of Milennium2N boards above the CPv2 board...I like an 'all-in-one' solution...
Here's the M2N ref I used:
(http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/M2NSwitching.GIF)
and a link to the .diy file:
http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/CreamPie/CreamPieV2%2DDualR1.diy
Interesting!
I kinda went the other way and ran them into each other.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/mmarkmm/DoubleCREAMPIELayout.gif)
Has anyone a good idea how to add a hissfilter at the end? Due to the current FB it hisses a lot even with a 549/559 trannie, a simple LPB-1 circuit is way quiter (with a Ge- trannie the it hisses way more). The only way to get rid of the noise is fooling with the emitter R, but this affects the sound to much, same when reducing the current flow through the trannie to drop the noise level.
JHS
Kinda like taking the good with the bad I guess :icon_neutral:
Just label the gain knob "Hiss Okay" ... ... :icon_wink:
Quote from: Torchy on November 05, 2006, 06:08:36 PM
Just label the gain knob "Hiss Okay" ... ... :icon_wink:
:icon_lol:
hi guys...
thought i'd ask a "favor" of you....
i'm really considering making some of these to sell...and since i've had people inquiring whether it "ok to pay a tech to build one for them", i'd rather pull all the layouts if possible...i still fully encourage DIY, and will happily email schemo's or layouts to those who email me and ask for it. its just my feeling that if "somebody" is going to make money on it, it should be "me"...i'm sure you can understand.
thanks,
AC
Sounds great Andy. Thanks again for sharing this cool circuit.
Andy, You deserve it, go for it !
I made version 1 and until today, I only tested the circuit with strats and teles. When I got home from work I decided to hit the pie with an SG equiped with a Kent Armstrong retrofit P-90 in the neck position into my 72 Traynor Bass Master. The tone almost brought a tear to my eye, the cream pie nails the early Santana tone with the sustain and the on the edge of feedback. I LOVE the Cream Pie, just an amazing little booster. All four of the stray cats I adopted didn't think much of it though, they all went to hide in the basement ;-)
Best of luck making a couple o' bucks with the Cream Pie.
Chris
Yes,
The very best of luck Andy!
All my layouts for the creampie are down.
Thank you for sharing my friend! :)
No problem Andrew - you definitely deserve to profit from this one if there's profit to be made.
My layouts are down...
Good luck.
I'm going to build my dual layout this weekend...just printed the PNP today at work. If it's as impressive as I think it's going to be, I'll post a build report with some sound clips.
Thanks again for your work on this circuit.
Mike
cool guys...i thank you greatly...
like i mentioned..i'm happy to email you guys the schemo/layouts/watever for your private use...just ask...
you guys are the best...
AC
Not ten minutes ago I finished putting together v2 on the breadboard (with a warp control) and thought, "damn, this sounds awesome. he should really sell these!" good luck! let me know if you need a fellow austinite for late night soldering ;)
Quote from: bean on November 07, 2006, 09:40:25 PM
Not ten minutes ago I finished putting together v2 on the breadboard (with a warp control) and thought, "damn, this sounds awesome. he should really sell these!" good luck! let me know if you need a fellow austinite for late night soldering ;)
cool...i just got back from brian wenz' place...cool guy !
i'll pm my # to you...we'll have to hang out !
AC
Hey,
Just wanted to let you know that a lot of the stuff on this thread is down (schematics). I deleted my history and cache and all, and realised all of the stuff is down. Also, your layouts arent in your folder anymore. Can you please repost the version schematics and stuff. I hope to breadboard this in a few days.
Thanks :)
Quote from: call1800ksmyazz on November 07, 2006, 10:02:01 PM
Hey,
Just wanted to let you know that a lot of the stuff on this thread is down (schematics). I deleted my history and cache and all, and realised all of the stuff is down. Also, your layouts arent in your folder anymore. Can you please repost the version schematics and stuff. I hope to breadboard this in a few days.
Thanks :)
You've got mail !
AC
haha yea thanks!
and you have some "re: mail"
cya man. good luck.
Love to get the schems and vero Andrew. I have been following the thread since it started and thought that I would wait until the dust settled...
Thanks for all your fine work!
fuzzcaNOSPAM@hotmail.com
Quote from: vortex on November 08, 2006, 02:02:45 AM
Love to get the schems and vero Andrew. I have been following the thread since it started and thought that I would wait until the dust settled...
Thanks for all your fine work!
fuzzcaNOSPAM@hotmail.com
ditto. this was a great thread. thanks AC and all!
cheers, gm :icon_cool:
Me too.
hoping to version 1
rboyavalNOSPAM@hotmail.com
Thanks for the work put into this Andy. Looking forward to building it for the Holidays. Hope you can sell lots of em!!!
Guys, this is completely off topic, but I would suggest that you do NOT post your email in a thread due to bots scouring the board for that stuff.
Use the PM function.
Just a suggestion.
Jay Doyle
Quote from: Jay Doyle on November 08, 2006, 11:46:53 AM
Guys, this is completely off topic, but I would suggest that you do NOT post your email in a thread due to bots scouring the board for that stuff.
Use the PM function.
Just a suggestion.
Jay Doyle
+1. I'm receiving lots of spam due to post my e-mail address in some forums.
[OT]:
when asking/reporting the moderators for a favor, you can make life easier for them,
by linking (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=50747.msg384526#msg384526) to your post... :icon_wink:
Quote from: puretube on November 08, 2006, 12:57:55 PM
[OT]:
when asking/reporting the moderators for a favor, you can make life easier for them,
by linking (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=50747.msg384526#msg384526) to your post... :icon_wink:
OK, good tip. Thanks :icon_cool:
Howie's Metal Simplex here @ DIY Stompboxes is a nice example of where a CP stage could be found.
Quote from: Marcos - Munky on November 08, 2006, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: Jay Doyle on November 08, 2006, 11:46:53 AM
Guys, this is completely off topic, but I would suggest that you do NOT post your email in a thread due to bots scouring the board for that stuff.
Use the PM function.
Just a suggestion.
Jay Doyle
+1. I'm receiving lots of spam due to post my e-mail address in some forums.
++ Me too, in another thread I did that now I get a bunch of 'buy this stock now' stuff - which by the way - inside those emails is completely the wrong advice - just some guy trying to make a buck off of pumping up indiscriminate stocks.
Quote from: lovric on November 10, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
Howie's Metal Simplex here @ DIY Stompboxes is a nice example of where a CP stage could be found.
are you saying "build a metal simplex" with the CP substituting for the initial input stage ? could be interesting....
the CP stage is similar to the simplex, just by looking at it, though obviously the simplex is set up for a silicon tranny...IIRC, the electra distortion, big muff pi, and several others have similar looking stages....
Quote from: mojotron on November 10, 2006, 12:16:18 PM
++ Me too, in another thread I did that now I get a bunch of 'buy this stock now' stuff - which by the way - inside those emails is completely the wrong advice - just some guy trying to make a buck off of pumping up indiscriminate stocks.
I wonder if those pills they offer me besides stock, travels, watches and loans,
really are
so great? :icon_razz:
Quote from: puretube on November 10, 2006, 12:37:32 PM
I wonder if those pills they offer me besides stock, travels, watches and loans,
really are so great? :icon_razz:
OF COURSE THEY ARE ! DIDN'T YOU READ THE AD ? :icon_lol:
so you needed to try them?
:icon_razz:
(the watches...)
Quote from: puretube on November 10, 2006, 02:53:26 PM
so you needed to try them?
:icon_razz:
(the watches...)
nah...i just tust what the advertisers tell me...they wouldn't lie, right ?
just did but the diode stage overpowers CP. in the end the CP is to delicate to survive their limiting.
Well, as it turns out, with everything that I have going on (record deal, etc) these days...I won't have the time to build any Cream Pie's for sale. I wanted to thank all of you who so graciously "pulled" their layouts and schematics at my request...it means a lot to me that you have enough respect for me to do that.
That being said, this simply means the Cream Pie is back as a DIY deal ! So feel free to post layouts, mods, etc, etc...
Heres a "final version" Cream Pie schemo for ya ! This version is SUPER versatile and sounds AMAZING, if I do say so myself! :) As for collector voltage, latest reports have anything from 3V - 7V working well, so its a matter of "tonal preference !"
D-FLY
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1226934/CREAMPIEFINAL.GIF)
Thanks for posting it again. You are a true Gentleman!
John
where did we land on building this with si trannies?
Very good Andy, thanks for your generousity!
Both my layouts are back up in the gallery.
One question, does the tone control have a big influence on the circuit?
When I built mine, it wasn't muddy nor was it to piercing.....just curious. ???
The tone control helps it work better *if* you're using both humbuckers and SC's. I still use the standard .022uF cap version for my own CP, however, as it balances nicely for what I do.
AC
Quote from: Barcode80 on December 04, 2006, 02:32:37 PM
where did we land on building this with si trannies?
I tried the original version with low gain silicon transistors and higher gain silicons and it sounded really good, not the same as with germ, but still good.
Just stick a silicon in there and try it, you don't need to change the circuit at, because the trim pot lets you bias just about any transistor up.
How does a 500K tone pot compare to using a 100K? I have always used the 100K, just curious if it makes much of a difference for this application.
A bit more gradual transition between tones. Either will work.
AC
Quote from: Dragonfly on December 04, 2006, 03:55:52 PM
The tone control helps it work better *if* you're using both humbuckers and SC's. I still use the standard .022uF cap version for my own CP, however, as it balances nicely for what I do.
AC
So my Tele should be happy with it as is huh?
hmm, i think something is wrong with my build. no sound. sound when bypassed so the circuit is the problem. tried tranny both ways. only point i can find in the circuit with no voltage is around the input caps and input resistor. any ideas?
After building the Texas Cattle Drive with a CV7112(OC140) with great success, I was just about to build another one on a stripboard to use the other CV7112 I have, but then I noticed the Cream Pie...
Well, it seems it will be my next build after all. It would complement the first one I think. I am just curious to know how different it will be. I just need a bit more guts than the Apollo/Orange Treble Boost variant.
Gilles
This is a matter of opinion mind you but, I like the Creampie much more myself.
I just thinks it sounds better with my Tele....more "gutsy".
You know Mark... I have to think Strat or DeArmond (or even Dobro...) when I build an effect.
But I admit I began to think Tele in my head :D
I don't know why, but my wife began to tease me with that ??? Saying things like "don't you need a Tele to get that sound ?" while listening to some songs... I think she noticed my new interest ::)
Anyway, even then, I'll have to try it with a Strat for now.
Gilles
Sounds like you NEED a Tele there Gilles!! :icon_lol:
Tele's are bad ass! haha! Man Andy, I just ordered three sets of parts so i can build three sparkle boosts for a couple of friends and I. I gotta do a whole new order now to build this thing because of all he hipe! In ya'll's opinion what is the best germ and what is the best place to get it?
Thanks a bunch,
Jason
Quote from: milkwasabadchoice on December 05, 2006, 05:52:20 PM
In ya'll's opinion what is the best germ and what is the best place to get it?
Thanks a bunch,
Jason
Personal opinion...OC140 / CV7112...its a mullard NPN germ, and they sound and spec out REAL nice....Aron sells them here at the store, IIRC...if for some reason he's out of stock, Steve at small bear has 'em.
I like the NPN because i like having the option of using a regular Boss style power supply. If you just want to use batteries (or a center positive adaptor), AC128's, AC188's, and any of the 2SB's are good. I'd imagine the OC44 / OC76 / etc, etc are great too...it sounds good wih a variety of grems...
AC
You're right about the OC140 / CV7112. I like to use NPNs Germs. And those seem to fit my ear more than the PNPs Germs I tried before.
Finding the right parts for the right circuit is fun...
When both the Cream Pie and the Cattle Drive are boxed, I'll pay a visit to the music store with them, oh just for fun, and to try a Tele with them...
It would be an occasion to get another player's opinion on these build ;D
These guys sold me my Fender HRD and my Dearmond, so I'm sure they won't mind.
Gilles
Actually, you're BOTH right about the OC140 / CV7112, very musical sounding and works real well in the Creampie!
I got mine from Aron!
I've got a little problem here. While checking the info that I had about the Cream Pie, I realised that I had a schematic without a revision number and a layout for rev 2. No layout for the no revision schematic, and no schematic for the layout rev2???
What guys do you use?
Gilles
well i tried the layout above and have some troubleshooting to do as i have no sound and no voltage coming around the input caps.
Quote from: Barcode80 on December 06, 2006, 01:50:42 AM
well i tried the layout above and have some troubleshooting to do as i have no sound and no voltage coming around the input caps.
Which layout are you using?
Well I re-read the thread again and found the differences. The different value of the input cap and the change of identification for the parts mixed me up a bit last night. It's better this morning...
Rev 1 has .01uF input cap and a .1uF for 500K tone control.
Rev 2 has a .022uF and no tone control.
It seems that Rev 2 is the standard to build. No need for a tone control.
Barcode80, what voltage do you measure at the tranny, and each side of the input cap?
Gilles
i'll check voltages when i get home. but i did build the tone control version. so i will swap it out for the single .022 cap version and see what happens.
Quote from: Gilles C on December 06, 2006, 07:42:42 AM
It seems that Rev 2 is the standard to build. No need for a tone control.
Mine is the no tone control version and it's fine for single coils!
It's warm but not lacking highs.
I have layouts for both versions 1 and 2 in the gallery, I guess the tone control version would be considered 3!
It's just an all around great sounding circuit that's easy to build.
Nice!
These are the only 2 schematics of the Cream Pie that I found.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1226934/CREAMPIEFINAL.GIF
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1087097/CREAMPIE3.0.GIF
I never saw the schematic of the version 2
And the only stripboard layout on Dragonfly's gallery page is for the version 2
That's why I was asking. So today, I did my own stripboard layout for the Cream Pie version 1, which is the one without the tone control. I also use single coils so it will be perfect.
Gilles
Quote from: Gilles C on December 06, 2006, 06:32:32 PM
I never saw the schematic of the version 2
CREAM PIE V2 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Dragonfly-FX-Schematics-%21/CREAM_PIE_V2_SCHEMATIC?full=1)
Here's my layout for VER3.
(http://webpages.charter.net/daosmun/Cream%20Pie%20Blend%20Cap%20Vero.JPG)
Thanks Andy!
At first, I was wondering how come I didn't find it... until I saw the creation date ;)
Gilles
Quote from: Gilles C on December 06, 2006, 09:56:49 PM
Thanks Andy!
At first, I was wondering how come I didn't find it... until I saw the creation date ;)
Gilles
It was originally posted in the gallery and this thread...then i took it down...then i put it up again :D
AC
pot values?
Quote from: dosmun on December 06, 2006, 07:00:40 PM
Here's my layout for VER3.
(http://webpages.charter.net/daosmun/Cream%20Pie%20Blend%20Cap%20Vero.JPG)
Vol - 100K A
Gain - 5K L
Tone - 100K L
Thanks ;D
I'm almost done with building the Cream Pie V2, and I won't have time to finish it completely until a few days maybe. But I wanted at least to be able to show the stripboard for now.
I just put a CV7112 in there for the picture and to verify my layout. It's not soldered as I will use a socket anyway...
And I also have to make the 2 sides I had to cut a little smoother.
(http://aronnelson.com/gallery/albums/album99/CP2_picture.jpg)
Ok... I also needed a NEW picture to upload on Aron's DIY Stompboxes Gallery... :icon_redface:
Gilles
Hey guys. Just got around to putting this one together and I am stumped. I feel like an imbecile cause it's such a small circuit that I should be able to figure it out. I haven't messed around with these PNP germaniums and positve ground wiring before though. I ordered a few from smallbear and I am assuming the tabs on them denote the emitter. I put them in my multimeter and the HFE reading I got back suggested that my assumptions were correct. I plugged it into the above layout with the emitter going to lug 3 of the gain. I reversed the diode and 47uf electro as well as ran the battery + to the board ground and the battery - to the board +. When biasing the transistors collector to 4.5 I get .08 at the base and 0 at the emitter. This is by attaching the meter probe + to ground and using the - probe to gather readings on the transitor legs. It passes signal and the volume works, but its gatey and splaty and a bit noisy making me think something is wrong with the transsistor. The first one I tried did the same though and was hissy. Anyone have any suggestions before I try my last transistor?
your base voltage is too low. check R2 for correct value/solder bridges.also remelt all solder connections there
I had just started my mantra of "mama they try and break me" when i decided to lift the bridge that connects ground to c3.....lo and behold, solder had gone through the perf and attached itself to it at the hole right by the emitter, thus grounding it out as well as lug 3 of the gain.
Must wait until morning before firing it back up. Safer. Thanks Barcode80 for the help.
Oh man this does sound great. Unfortunately I am no pro at boosters but I should have built one a while ago. Can't wait to set this one up in front of yun's super muff. Thanks dragonfly or the circuit and dosmun for the layout and everyone else who contributed!
The Creampie is a simple yet Fantastic sounding circuit.
Dragonfly is Amazing! :)
Is there a V2 schem available? The link posted a page back doesn't seem to have it anymore.
Thanks,
Deric
...or a V3 version of the schematic? Can you PM directly to our names here, or should I provide a no-spam email address? It looks like this might be your preference...
Thanks :)
Check in Dragonfly's Gallery.....I think they are all in there. :)
Hey Mark, 8)
I just dug around his gallery again and either I'm stupid (quite possible) or it's not there anymore. I'll try again........
Deric
Quote from: stumper1 on February 07, 2007, 04:59:13 PM
Hey Mark, 8)
I just dug around his gallery again and either I'm stupid (quite possible) or it's not there anymore. I'll try again........
Deric
No, on the contrary, I'm probably wrong!
He may have removed it. :icon_confused:
new frontiers: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=1526281
Sorry to dig this up, but does anybody still have the Cream Pie schematic on his hard drive?
all the links to layouts seems dead.
thanks so much
zj
links to the layout and/or schem are dead because dragonfly removed all versions of the cream pie for numerous reasons. please don't ask him about it, i'm sure he is tired of hearing it...
You can Purchase a Cream Pie at Tone Factor :) Good for Andy! His Ultra Lord Fuzz is available there too!
ok, will have to invent one myself, not to worry.
I'll try germaniumizing the sparkle boost then.
the clip is quite dissapointing, I found
http://www.tonefactor.com/proddetail.php?prod=CPD
Believe in me, the Cream Pie is way more than this clip. I still have to box mine, it will be forever in my pedalboard.
Hey the schematic can't be seen.The bookmark is dead
Been pulled, gone into commercial production... You can buy them from Tonefactor.