http://www.banzaieffects.com/LED-5mm-RGB-multicolor-pr-19402.html
I saw these on the Rapid site so I ordered a couple to try them out.
They are pretty cool, they flick between red green and blue.
The one i tested stuttered a little between transitions, and the red flickered slightly, but the do look cool, and certainly a lot better than a boring old red LED.
j
What is their current usage, RG Micro (IIRC) had some that did that a while back but used 80+ mA of current!
I've got one or two somewhere here. They'd annoy the hell out of me if I had them on my pedalboard
Hi
I have just put one in my newly built Rebote 2.5
Since building the Rebote I have been using pretty heavily 'cos it just sound so cool, but I have noticed that
the battery has gone flat fairly quickly. I was not sure if this was down to the pedal its self or the LED. I remember
I had a commercial delay pedal before and that was quite battery hungry. So its probably worth you checking the current consumption.
In terms of the LED I love it and have had a lot of positive comments from people who have seen me using it. It changes colour every 5 seconds and has not presented me with any problems at all knowing which pedal is which, even though by Rebote is Identical to my Tubescreamer in Box, layout and bare aluminium box design (they are like twins !) There's something about a sound repeating and the LED changing colour. Now if you could make it change in time with the repeats that would really be cool. I plan to run my pedals from a supply soon so the current draw wont be an issue, but I have a feeling you are going to get as many love it as hate it replies - is different a bad thing ?
Good luck
Axeman.
each to their own i guess,
i was just perusing rapid to find something a little different to a standard plain coloured LED.
i think they look pretty cool! ;D
j
They look cool in a sample/hold pedal (FSH1) ... :icon_wink:
Okay here is the one at BG Micro. 90 mA. That will kill a battery pretty quick, but if you are using some AC adaptors, they are darn cool.
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10895
yeah, i use them in all my sunshine boxes.
could they change the way a LED on an LFO flashes?
they are in my last order ^^
Two quick notes:
(1) They will run on a lot less than 80ma
(2) Because of the internal circuitry, they can add spikes to the power supply line that can show up in your output. Use a filter cap on the power supply.
regards, Jack
Yes, I've used a similar type at 20mA. I also have some that fade through different colours, no flicker, no interference. Very cool.
Resurrecting an old thread. I bought a similar LED (5mm, 7 colours auto-changing, 20mA, 3.5v typical, 4.5v max), however it is stuck on red. LED is in a Tubescreamer TS-7 and is using the stock 10k resistor. Does the voltage need to be within a certain range to make it cycle colours? Thanks in advance. :)
http://www.schematicx.com/schematic/ibanez-ts7-tubescreamer-schematic/ (http://www.schematicx.com/schematic/ibanez-ts7-tubescreamer-schematic/)
You need more current.
If V is the forward voltage drop ( measure the voltage over the diod, I'm unfamiliar with these little bastards ).
Then with 10k you'll get ~5V/10k=500uA and 20mA is 40 times that.
You'll probably need 470R in there ( ~10mA ) or even less.
LED resistance calculator...
(http://www.muzique.com/schem/led.htm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba6EwABsRlg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba6EwABsRlg)
Quote from: Nasse on January 04, 2009, 05:54:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba6EwABsRlg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba6EwABsRlg)
Really cool! :) I don't think it'll fit in a tubescreamer though!
http://videot.kympe.fi/galleria/gallery/ledkynttilat7.flv (http://videot.kympe.fi/galleria/gallery/ledkynttilat7.flv)
And that link brought me to... a finnish radioshow? ??? My finnish sucks, sorry...
Sorry for that bad link, I removed it, was my fault. There should have been a nasty video clip in the spirit "don´t try this at home" where they demo what happens when some idiot tries to fire an ordinary led candle and in the end the lithium battery explodes with lots of sparks and burning liquid plastic. (yes I was so stupid tried to fire one a year ago, and my wife´s mother did the same), totally off topic.
Perhaps such led could be less irritating if used to illuminate some plastic part or or used as fibre optics "driver"
Thanks everyone. Without measuring, I reckoned it should've been about a 220-270ohm resistor, but that seems alot smaller than values people normally use for LEDs in pedals. I will give this a go. Thanks. :)
Argh.... I tried various resistors from 1.5k down to 360ohm. At 1.5k it switched only a few colours and stuck on one. Somewhere along the way down to 360ohms it switched 6 colours then stuck on the last one. I tried ~200ohm by paralleling a 470 and a 360. 6 colours then stuck, for a few tries as before, and now it cycles only through to colour 4 then stays there. I tried jumpering the resistor, still stuck on colour 4. I might have killed it perhaps....
Quote from: grolschie on January 05, 2009, 12:53:57 AM
I might have killed it perhaps....
Not likely. I don't think undercurrent will kill it. Maybee bored it to death? :icon_biggrin:
Remember, there is more factors involved in determining the current for the LED ( or what that thing really is... )
On the schematic I linked to, the LED series resistor is R88/10k.
The transistors base current however is determined by R72 which is 1M. That is a bit to high. Try sticking another 1M in there in parallel with R72. You may need to go even lower but remember. It could provoke the on/off switching action if you take out too much current, but hardly with the modest currents we're talking about here.
Thanks for the reply.
QuoteOn the schematic I linked to, the LED series resistor is R88/10k.
Don't you mean R62?
QuoteThe transistors base current however is determined by R72 which is 1M. That is a bit to high. Try sticking another 1M in there in parallel with R72.
I will give another 1M a go. What is the purpose of this transistor in this setup? Thanks. :)
Quote from: grolschie on January 05, 2009, 03:48:54 PM
Don't you mean R62?
Yes indeed!
Quote
I will give another 1M a go. What is the purpose of this transistor in this setup? Thanks. :)
More likely something like a total resitance of ~200k. I looked up the datasheet for the 2sc1815 and it has an amplification between 70 and 700. So if you're lucky you'll get away with a resistor big enough not to interfere with the switch. Witch in this part is fed by... R88
You just might get away with it. Start with 1M though.
TR13 amplifies the signal on TR12 so the LED doesn't interfere with the switching action
Ok. I paralleled a 1Mohm. Colours stop cycling on the last colour. I paralleled another 1Mohm and success! So currently, the series resistor is 360ohms and I think that the R72 value is 333k (3x 1Mohm in parallel). The LED works. The LED cycles through all colours. Signal cuts out when LED is on - because I guess that the tone circuit not connected back up yet, so I am guessing that the switching still works. Many thanks Oskar! ;D
Final questions. What values should I settle with for R62 and R72 to ensure switching works and LED colours cycle, but LED won't suck too many milliamps? LED seems to work off a Boss PSU and a new battery. Many thanks. :)
Quote from: grolschie on January 06, 2009, 06:51:09 PM
Ok. I paralleled a 1Mohm. Colours stop cycling on the last colour. I paralleled another 1Mohm and success! So currently, the series resistor is 360ohms and I think that the R72 value is 333k (3x 1Mohm in parallel). The LED works. The LED cycles through all colours.
Great!
Quote
Signal cuts out when LED is on - because I guess that the tone circuit not connected back up yet, so I am guessing that the switching still works.
Ok. I didn't get that... ??? -Your main focus is still making noise so make sure it turns on/ off properly... ;)
QuoteFinal questions. What values should I settle with for R62 and R72 to ensure switching works and LED colours cycle, but LED won't suck too many milliamps? LED seems to work off a Boss PSU and a new battery. Many thanks. :)
Well. R62 regulates the current through the LED really and the LED at minimum current will at least double the total current drawn by this circuit.
You are mainly going to use PSU's from now on, probably?! My main concern is that the proportionally small current we take from the switch, to turn TR13 on enough for the LED's operation, is going to upset the switch or make it unstable with intermittent problems when switching it on/off or perhaps turning off if it gets hot or something like that. Now we decreased R72 enough to feed TR13 but earlier you diminished R62 pretty much.
Just maybee you can settle on 1k.
If you don't want to starve it and give it the rated 20mA( ~220R), and it works off 360R so perhaps 470R - 1k maybe could work.
If the switch gets restless or go on a strike or whatever I'ld like to hear about it. OK?
Thank you, it's been a pleassure
Oskar
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/th_533d5599.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/?action=view¤t=533d5599.flv)
In a high gain circuit
Thanks Oskar. The tone circuit is on a separate board which connects up to the main board when assembled in the case. It is easier to work on the circuit outside the case. :-)
I measured the current draw at the battery (without tone/gain/level board connected) and I am sure it read 8.9mA. When replacing R62 with a 1K (which works by the way), it draws 8.7mA. Should I try a bigger valve?
Will measure the current draw when it's all back together. The pedal belongs to a friend who uses a PSU. :)
Actually, after seeing the video Sir H C posted, I had better put her back together for a listen. Yikes.
And that was LED'ish for "Feed me!!!"? :icon_biggrin:
Yep. We haven't really adressed the issue of noise but I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread.
We'll get there...
Thanks. I will try it in the case soon. :-)
Ok. It seems to work in its case.
However, one question: being not sure how this transistor switch arrangement works, would there ever be an scenario where both the dry and wet signal are being blended together i.e. clean signal leaking through when pedal engaged?
I didn't have a decent play with the pedal prior to changing the LED, but it sounds like on the loudest bass notes that I can hear the clean sound mixed in real loud. Or is that how a TS-7 supposed to sound like? Lower gain pups don't seem to have same effect, only high gain ones and when they are played hard. It's more noticable with high gain on full and hot switch also engaged. When the sound is supposed to be compressed and distorted (which it is when I play gently), there seems to be clean mixed in. This is quite a cool effect, because I can still hear twang. But I suspect it's not how it supposed to sound. :)
Quote from: grolschie on January 07, 2009, 12:49:58 AM
However, one question: being not sure how this transistor switch arrangement works, would there ever be an scenario where both the dry and wet signal are being blended together i.e. clean signal leaking through when pedal engaged?
Yes there is.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=73099.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=73099.0)
But this guy was parachuting without an instructor ( or parachute ). The LED in that circuit is driven directly by the switch without amplification so it's more difficult to tweek.
QuoteI didn't have a decent play with the pedal prior to changing the LED, but it sounds like on the loudest bass notes that I can hear the clean sound mixed in real loud. Or is that how a TS-7 supposed to sound like?
Never touched one of those things... I know, my DIY credibility just took a severe dive.
But I don't think it's supposed to sound clean when you go full on.
Measure J401 pins on and off. They should take turns to be high/low and hold comparable values.
It's still doable if you're having troubles with leak but as you might have figured out allready it could take some work.
One fix would be to again increase R72 and instead change TR13 to one with higher gain. R88 is also a possible target here but that is off limits as far as my experience goes. You could try and lower it a bit, again with another resistor stuck in parallel ( for a total R of perhaps ~2/3 of it's present 56k... just guessing here! ). But take readings on j401 first.
Quote
Lower gain pups don't seem to have same effect, only high gain ones and when they are played hard. It's more noticable with high gain on full and hot switch also engaged. When the sound is supposed to be compressed and distorted (which it is when I play gently), there seems to be clean mixed in. This is quite a cool effect, because I can still hear twang. But I suspect it's not how it supposed to sound. :)
When it starts clipping it really does that. It get's more distorted but the level won't increas considerably. The level of your playing is however so it really sound like something could be leaking through here ( actually the clean switch could be fully open... )
Done thinking. The transistors in the switch is set up with slightly different component values. I think that is because them japanese wanted the unit to be allways the same state when you put a cable in the input (off ). All we need to do however is make sure the collector voltage is the same on both of them trannies and that is what you're about to measure on either the collectors directly or on j401 ( via 1M resistors ). R88 has to be lowered like I said before. A 100k in parallel will probably do it.
Hi Oskar.
I put the postive end of multimeter on a ground i/o jack plate and the negative end on the collectors of TR12 and TR13. Here are the voltages:
TR13 ON: 1.66v, 1.66v, 2.2v, 2.02v, 2.05v, 2.27, 2.36 (approx, as the values change fast, with dips below 1v while changing)
TR13 OFF: 6v
TR12 ON: 5.2v
TR12 OFF: 0.02v
Taking readings from the reverse side of the board from the solder produces lower readings (approx 0.5v lower).
TR11? We need to know that one rather than TR13.
TR11 ON: 0.05v
TR11 OFF: ~7.0v
The collector is the middle pin right?
So. Decrease R88 untill TR12 is ~7V also... :) Were enginering!!! Whooopieee!
A 100k over R88 is a good start!
:)
Paralleling a 100k makes it read 6v now.
:o ...lower! R88 stick another 47k - 100k in there... and boldly so!
EDIT! 47k is a bit low perhaps!
6.58v now with another 100k tacked on. This is looking like Frankenstein's latest creation. ;)
That's good enough. Now try it with gain, volume, EQ full on up to se if the LED is interfering. And to see if the sound has changed from before with the possible leakage!
Also. See if it is in off or on state when you plug a cable into the input ( switch it on ). Try this a couple of times.
hmmm.... I can still hear it on the loudest notes.
When on battery, the pedal always starts off in the off position when inserting the cable.
Thanks for your help. Maybe I am best to borrow another TS-7 to A|B them?
Argh. My friend is away, so I cannot borrow one presently. What voltage should both transistors be? Both on 7v?
Did you experience any noise?
Quote from: grolschie on January 09, 2009, 02:09:41 AM
What voltage should both transistors be? Both on 7v?
No. They should actually hold about the voltages they did... ;)
There was so many things there I didn't bother to calculate. I thought the reason the components were different was for the startup position (which it is) and that the levels after power up would be comparabel (which they're not)
I ran a simulation of it... for the switching action the main issue seems to be the trannies sinking properly to 0V which they both are modded and not, in simulation and for real. TR11 ended up 7.5V and TR12 some 6.5V...
First thing you need to know about electronic components is that the tolerances are high. Especially with transistors.
We're well within safety limits so nothing should get damaged and that is my main concern... second is switch stability and noise.
Quotehmmm.... I can still hear it on the loudest notes.
But did you hear any change compared to before?
Quote from: grolschie on January 07, 2009, 06:52:04 PM
When on battery, the pedal always starts off in the off position when inserting the cable.
Thanks for your help. Maybe I am best to borrow another TS-7 to A|B them?
Good starting point. Actually knowing what the thing is supposed to do is really no. 1,2 and 3... And I can't help you with this.
:) -There is something beautiful about putting in all this effort into a little thing blinking. Blinkenlicht. I kind of like it.
QuoteDid you experience any noise?
No noise that I could hear. I didn't crank my amp loud though, but no noise like on the video, so far.
QuoteNo. They should actually hold about the voltages they did...
There was so many things there I didn't bother to calculate. I thought the reason the components were different was for the startup position (which it is) and that the levels after power up would be comparabel (which they're not)
I ran a simulation of it... for the switching action the main issue seems to be the trannies sinking properly to 0V which they both are modded and not, in simulation and for real. TR11 ended up 7.5V and TR12 some 6.5V...
So they are about right then? So the sounds I am hearing should not be from the switching then?
QuoteFirst thing you need to know about electronic components is that the tolerances are high. Especially with transistors.
We're well within safety limits so nothing should get damaged and that is my main concern... second is switch stability and noise.
Switch seems to work consistently.
QuoteBut did you hear any change compared to before?
Without A|B'ing it's hard to tell. I can still hear it, but maybe not as much.
QuoteGood starting point. Actually knowing what the thing is supposed to do is really no. 1,2 and 3... And I can't help you with this.
-There is something beautiful about putting in all this effort into a little thing blinking. Blinkenlicht. I kind of like it.
Thanks for your time and help. It's been more challenging than I would've thought getting the multi-colour lights working. The LED is sitting slightly high, so I ended up putting some heat shrink around the LED to stop the light escaping out the sides - to ensure LED colours mixing when viewing from angles other than directly downwards - cannot see the heatshrink from the outside - looks better than it did - although I could've resoldered and lowered the LED slightly.
Realize that pedal has a gain of around 2000 (I have to calculate it again...), I tried with regulator and decoupling caps but it was still there. I think if I worked harder I could get that going right, but as it is I decided to go for a Red/Green LED for on off.
Quote from: Sir H C on January 09, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
Realize that pedal has a gain of around 2000 (I have to calculate it again...)
:o Ouch, that's a lot of gain.
How do you calculate gain in a circuit with diodes in the feedback path?
Quote from: Sir H C on January 09, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
I tried with regulator and decoupling caps but it was still there.
But the one on your video... did you try exorcism? :icon_biggrin:
QuoteSo they are about right then? So the sounds I am hearing should not be from the switching then?
Other highgain circuits have quirks like this. Like the Rat for instance...
What you could do is audioprobe it. Try and see if the fet's are closed when they should be.
Here is a software oscilloscope/analyzer. I haven't tried it yet but it's recommended elsewhere.
http://www.sillanumsoft.org/ (http://www.sillanumsoft.org/)
Oskar
Quote from: oskar on January 09, 2009, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: Sir H C on January 09, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
Realize that pedal has a gain of around 2000 (I have to calculate it again...)
:o Ouch, that's a lot of gain.
How do you calculate gain in a circuit with diodes in the feedback path?
Quote from: Sir H C on January 09, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
I tried with regulator and decoupling caps but it was still there.
But the one on your video... did you try exorcism? :icon_biggrin:
QuoteSo they are about right then? So the sounds I am hearing should not be from the switching then?
Other highgain circuits have quirks like this. Like the Rat for instance...
What you could do is audioprobe it. Try and see if the fet's are closed when they should be.
Here is a software oscilloscope/analyzer. I haven't tried it yet but it's recommended elsewhere.
http://www.sillanumsoft.org/ (http://www.sillanumsoft.org/)
Oskar
That fuzz actually doesn't have any diodes, but even with diodes, you assume that you are below threshold and are just looking for "small signal gain". I was ready to have a separate regulator for the LED and one for the pedal, but thought that might be a bit overkill :) :D
Ok, so I did some tidying up on the board. I ended up with:
- R72 = 330k
- R88 = 25.5k (2x 51K) maybe this should be a 33k?
- R62 = 1k (unchanged since a few days ago)
QuoteI ran a simulation of it... for the switching action the main issue seems to be the trannies sinking properly to 0V which they both are modded and not, in simulation and for real. TR11 ended up 7.5V and TR12 some 6.5V...
Voltages when using battery:
- TR11: on = 0.04v, off = 5.65v
- TR12: on = 6:17v, off = 0.04v
Voltages when using PSU:
- TR11: on = 0.04, off = 7.38v
- TR12: on = 6.81, off = 0.03v
The voltages seems different with battery versus PSU. Does this all look ok please?
To me these voltages look like what you could expect. The switch seems to be working just fine in most senses so go audioprobe on the fets if you want to dig deeper in the mysterious "clean leak"
Check the voltage on your battery please... This could affect the sound. An aging battery can affect a circuit in many ways. The cell in itself has a voltage that depends on the technology/chemical process used but when it gets older the internal resistance will increase. When you load the battery the current outtake will eventually make the voltage decrease. ??? it sounds like what your experiencing...
When you experienced the interfering clean guitar, did you power it from a battery or a PSU or both?
Hi Oskar.
Hmm... I suspect that the mystery is solved. Kinda. It would seem that my Bad Monkey (which has similarities) does this same thing, so it's probably not the TS-7 switching afterall? :icon_redface: I kinda thought I could hear it a little the other day when I A|B'ed, but I had thought that it was more noticeable on the TS-7. I didn't say anything at the time, because I wasn't certain. But after A|Bing again just now, it's really clear that both are doing it. So maybe a TS thing?
I am very sorry to have wasted your time Oskar. :icon_redface: Thank you very much for your time and help in getting this multi-colour LED working properly. I would have probably given up and just stuck a blue LED if it wasn't for your help. Thanks again! :icon_smile:
Certainly not a waste of time... That's part of the fun! ( Actually the bigger part of it! ) :icon_biggrin:
He, he... perhaps your friend is going to be annoyed by the whole thing after two weeks and beg you to make it stop?
I'm glad I could help...
Oskar
Many thanks. :)
Quoteperhaps your friend is going to be annoyed by the whole thing after two weeks and beg you to make it stop?
Hehehe. ;D
does anyone have a mouser part number for these LEDs? Or another US seller?