I just got a NOS unopened box of 100 of em for dirt cheap. Flying saucers with 4 legs, one leg for the case(do ya just ground that one for shielding?). Can't find any datasheets, and google only got me this:
http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/cross/russian_equiv.htm (http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/cross/russian_equiv.htm)
Ummm... anyone know anything about/ever use these? I guess I'll be finding out for myself, but...
after a little more digging I found a REALLY long list of parts that claims its an equivalent to this part : 2n1585 http://www.datasheets.org.uk/specsheet.php?part=2N1585 (http://www.datasheets.org.uk/specsheet.php?part=2N1585)
My russian data sheet/list states :
Ge NPN 50v max hfe 150 to 450 depending if it's A B or C suffix
Looking down on the top surface with "case" lug towards you pinout is
E C B
G ----> case pin
I have some GT309a and 309b which are superb and leakage has been minimal.
These are PNP though.
MM.
Thanks guys, That's what I was after. It seems these are what I hoped they would be.(except that pesky 4th leg) I'm probably gonna pop some in my NPN fuzzface real soon just to get a feel for em.
There's a guy in moscow selling these real cheap on ebay... in case anyone's interested. Very fast registered shipping too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Germanium-NPN-Transistors-GT311E-RUSSIA-Lot-of-50_W0QQitemZ180082238252QQihZ008QQcategoryZ109456QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180082238252 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Germanium-NPN-Transistors-GT311E-RUSSIA-Lot-of-50_W0QQitemZ180082238252QQihZ008QQcategoryZ109456QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180082238252)
Well, whaddya know... there was an old russian datasheet at the bottom of the box. Can't read a damn word, and even Martymart's pinout was more helpful than theirs, but one thing i could glean is that mine are the highest gain type- 'backwards N'. 'E' suffix is lowest, 'X with an I thru it' is medium.
These might turn out to be pretty damn useful...
I dont do ebay...but if one of you guys would like to pick up a couple lots of these (100 transistors total) for me, i'll happily paypal you the money...
AC
Quote from: Meanderthal on February 12, 2007, 12:51:37 AM
'backwards N'. 'E' suffix is lowest
that I
E in latin (emitter current)
Quote
, 'X with an I thru it' is medium.
that's probably zh, what it means, no idea, I'm not russian ;-)
I just emailed him - he's out of the -I (И) suffixes. He has a listing for 50 of the low Hfe "E" types...
Damn, I should have figured he has a limited supply. I just figured where there's one there must be more... Sorry... I thought he had more...
But, he's also got the GT313 pnp version, 'A' suffix(lower gain, as MartyMart points out. I think a, b, and c must be pnp suffixes, and the cyrillic symbols for npn) 4 lots of 100 for the same sick price I paid for the npn. I already have hundreds of Ge pnp, it's the npn that I look for...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Germanium-PNP-Transistors-GT313A-RUSSIA-Lot-of-100_W0QQitemZ180080085846QQihZ008QQcategoryZ109457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180080085846 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Germanium-PNP-Transistors-GT313A-RUSSIA-Lot-of-100_W0QQitemZ180080085846QQihZ008QQcategoryZ109457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180080085846)
I haven't HEARD them yet, but I'll get on it soon... so far all I have on hand to compare them with are OC140(for npn Ge.). But, everyone seems to like the 140s, so...
Russian pnp GT311 trannies usually have worse parameters than their npn "brothers" (GT313 for that case).
At the same time GT311 are quite expensive ones since they are actually super high-frequency transistors. Don't hesitate to buy them if the prices are low.
Also be careful when soldering them - they can be damaged easily with excessive heat, and try to avoid reverse of the supply polarity. I had a bad experience :-)
DDD
GT311 - NPN
GT313 - PNP
If you need russian transistors data go here:
http://www.rlocman.ru/comp/koz/bipol/bih00.htm
Just in case this one is for russian FETs:
http://www.rlocman.ru/comp/koz/pt/Pth00.htm
SORRY,
it's vice versa! I feel very ashamed...
Russian PNPs much better than NPNs.
(puzzle87, thank you for you note :-)
Pick up some GT308/309 and GT402's ( crillyc RT ) all PNP and more often than not, they are low
leakage and sound GREAT :D
My 402's look great, battleship grey and twice the size of an AC128 !
MM.
As much as I'd love to buy NOS Russian stuff, I can't shake my paranoia about them coming from a raid on an electronics store in Pripyat or something. ;D
I have 50 of the GT313A but have never been able to get them to sound good in anything or work at all. Secondly, I get gain readings in the NPN and PNP slots in my multimeter, what's up with that ? Has anybody used these in transistors in any popular projects ? I'd like to find a use for them.
Chris
Ok, well, I had a chance to test a few of these. They're ok I guess. A bit noisy til ya touch the 4th leg, so I guess they need grounding, and gains of about 20 tested ranged from around 45 hfe to 115, leakage... I dunno... I popped what I thought would be good potential pairs in, and found that biasing them ain't quite as simple as OC140 or any of my PNP germaniums... it wasn't easy to find good sounding pairs, but they're in there. Granted, I didn't use a trimpot for bias, just the stock Dallas resistor values, but when you have a lotta Germs it usually isn't hard to find good pairs.
So, first impression- mediocre. And, none sounded as good as the OC140 pair I settled on. Still a good buy though, if they ever pop up again.
Oh yeah, one other thing to be aware of with these- doing the spaghetti leg insulator twist thing to match the pinout of OC140 is a pain in the ass...
Hi,
I've used GT313A PNP in Fuzz Face and various boosters. Usually very low hfe (most are around 35 +/- 10, though range is 9-80 in my batch).
They sound really "full" or "thick" compared to may "2N" types in my collection, have extremely low leakage and are easy to bias if you use a trimpot instead of a fixed resistor. They do however have a audible hiss which most other germaniums don't. I cannot work out why they hiss or how to get rid of this without compromising sound quality, but I'm guessing it must be something related to the characteristic of the junction in these transistors. My batch was made in 1983 in USSR, so perhaps they got the leakage to near minimal (which it is) by doing something at the junctions that wasn't being done on the earlier germaniums?
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Paul E
Quote from: MartyMart on February 14, 2007, 04:14:40 AM
Pick up some GT308/309 and GT402's ( crillyc RT ) all PNP and more often than not, they are low
leakage and sound GREAT :D
My 402's look great, battleship grey and twice the size of an AC128 !
MM.
Marty and I have both checked these out. I really like them but there is some sort of hiss that's going on behind it all. They have low leakage and the gains are there, but the hiss at higher gain levels is not that great in treble circuits. They do well for Fuzz Faces (a circuit that is not treble dependent), but in Rangemasters and Tone Benders they don't stack up so good...
:icon_rolleyes:
I have not tried those in RM's so I didn't notice any "hiss" going on.
I used a pair of 402's ( one a and one b suffix ) in a "RockFace" which sounds like a real
expensive "BOOTEEK" overdrive/Fuzz and has become a real friend to my rig !
Sound file of the culprit :
http://aronnelson.com/userfiles/RockFaceFuzz.mp3
309's - I've dropped into several PNP fuzzes and got nice results, mine always have trimpots
though, seems pointless to try to find some that "just work" with that resistor value !
MM,.
There was a funny warning in the old Soviet articles for the DIYers, something like this: "Be extremely careful while soldering {Ge} transistors, always use a good heathink attached to the pins, don't bend the terminals closer than 3-5 millimetres to the case, and protect them from the electrostatic voltage. In the opposite case the transistors may be damaged completely or may lose some of their characteristics. Also, the high-frequency transistors {just like GT311} can cause RF oscillating even in the low-frequency circuits resulting in the EXCESSIVE HISS and even critical overheating of the p-n junctions".
I do not believe that FF or the similar circuits are able to self-oscillate, but who knows? ;-)
Hey Meanderthal, thanks much for the lead. I ordered a few boxes of Stalin's finest and they arrived today. I've been looking for an interesting transistor to use in an Electro-based distortion and the Soviet KT312's are just about perfect for a great light overdrive. I'll post pics of the completed box when its done. In the meantime:
(http://www.beavisaudio.com/images/russian.jpg)
Glad to be of help...
Ain't they cool lookin' though? I also got a kick outta the funky box that almost says transistor... didn't yours come with the weird cardboard insert? Or ya just dumped em out?
Quote from: DDD on February 20, 2007, 11:50:57 AM
There was a funny warning in the old Soviet articles for the DIYers, something like this: "Be extremely careful while soldering {Ge} transistors, always use a good heathink attached to the pins, don't bend the terminals closer than 3-5 millimetres to the case, and protect them from the electrostatic voltage. In the opposite case the transistors may be damaged completely or may lose some of their characteristics. Also, the high-frequency transistors {just like GT311} can cause RF oscillating even in the low-frequency circuits resulting in the EXCESSIVE HISS and even critical overheating of the p-n junctions".
I do not believe that FF or the similar circuits are able to self-oscillate, but who knows? ;-)
I wonder if there's some truth to that. The pins are pretty rigid compared to other transistors. On the few builds I've swapped them in (via socket) one of them was a fuzz face that when I put the transistors into my enclosure I found that the metal tops of the transistors grounded something out on one of the pots. In order to remedy this I had to bend the transistor down. After that the other pedals I swapped these into I did that trick from the get-go. I found no hiss with the fuzz face but the rangemaster, and a tonebender did have a little in the background. Also the fuzz face had just a hint of crackle like an old 45. I don't think I bend them anymore!
:icon_wink:
I just cut the leads down to around 7mm and use sockets, the round "milled" type
are a good tight fit, due to the leads being quite thick .... they dont budge at all !!!
I have a "RockFace" that uses 402's and it's superb and VERY quiet too.
MM.
So what the heck do you guys do with the 4th leg? I'm a noob about to start building Fuzz Face circuits. I was planning on using a socket but they have 3 holes. These transistors look to be a great deal but I don't won't to order them if I don't know what to do with the 4th leg.
Thanks!
Matt
The 4th leg goes to ground. It's attached to the metal case of the trannys, adds extra shielding I guess. They work without attaching it, but... they ARE quieter when that leg goes to ground.
Thanks. So I would just run a jumper wire from the leg to the ground?
Which of these would sound better in a Fuzz Face--- ГТ311Ж(GT311J) or ГТ311И(GT311E)
Thanks for your help!
Matt
QuoteThere was a funny warning in the old Soviet articles for the DIYers, something like this: "Be extremely careful while soldering {Ge} transistors, always use a good heathink attached to the pins, don't bend the terminals closer than 3-5 millimetres to the case, and protect them from the electrostatic voltage. In the opposite case the transistors may be damaged completely or may lose some of their characteristics. Also, the high-frequency transistors {just like GT311} can cause RF oscillating even in the low-frequency circuits resulting in the EXCESSIVE HISS and even critical overheating of the p-n junctions".
I do not believe that FF or the similar circuits are able to self-oscillate, but who knows? ;-)
Boiroids game me some russians Ge transistors recently. THANKS Miguel!
I measured them, some were really low leakage and high hfe. I breadboard a FF and tried some. I handled them as I usually do with my rock-solid Toshibas and Matsushitas. I could not bias them. I used a jap and the circuit sounded perfect. Put the russians again and nothing. So I re-tested them just to find that hfe & leakage had changed a lot. I diode-measured the E-C and I got 1000 to 1200 with my DDM on both directions, should read 1. I think that I "fried" some of them with my hands.
mac
Well, the ones I got were the ГТ311И, which are supposed to be highest gain, and they all tested between 45 and 110 hfe(without taking leakage in account), so I wouldn't go any lower gain than that! Hard to imagine what the 'low gain' ones are like!
Also, with these, even though ya get a pile of them, it wasn't easy to find good pairs in a standard Dallas circuit(as opposed to 2N404a, which seem to enjoy jumping into FF sockets- super easy to find good sounding pairs), so I would strongly recommend a bias trimpot! They're weird... which leads me to-
The 4th leg. Yes, jumper it to ground. PITA, ain't it? But, there is a certain logic to shielding the tranny itself...
Thanks for all of your input John. NPN Germs are pretty hard to find these days. Especially this many for such a small price. It's nice to know more about these.
Matt
I just grabbed myself 100 GT311E transistors, I am not sure what the E stands for and I can't find any info on the net, are these going to be high enough gain for you standard tonebenders and fuzz faces??
Cheers, Rich
Quote from: theblackman on July 23, 2007, 12:47:56 AM
I just grabbed myself 100 GT311E transistors, I am not sure what the E stands for and I can't find any info on the net, are these going to be high enough gain for you standard tonebenders and fuzz faces??
Cheers, Rich
I think someone earlier in this thread mentioned that the 'E' suffix is the lowest gain version of this transistor. I've got 100 of these too, speaking of which...
I've put one in a RM circuit and can't get them to bias...
Vs=8.56v
B=0.790v
E=0.869v
C=8.53v
Any ideas?
:icon_confused:
What are the values of the resistors you have in the circuit? You should be able to get it to bias if you fool with them a little.
I usually use 82K from Base to Ground, 470K from Base to V, and 2K for the Emitter. That usually gets me in a good ballpark to start with.
Quote from: soulsonic on July 24, 2007, 08:01:16 PM
What are the values of the resistors you have in the circuit? You should be able to get it to bias if you fool with them a little.
I usually use 82K from Base to Ground, 470K from Base to V, and 2K for the Emitter. That usually gets me in a good ballpark to start with.
Try using a 100k trim pot in place of the 68k resistor to ground in a normal RM. Should be easy to bias then.
I've recently recieved a bag of Russian tranny's.
They look like little land mines, the center leg is fastened between the others to the can.
I can't figure the pinout, the meter just makes a wierd beeping sound when the legs are pushed in a couple different ways, I tried a few, got beeps but no reasonable readings...couldn't determine pinout, and have given up for the moment.
I also received a box of those NPN GT311E russian germs recently. Only tried 1 in Gus' NPN Booster circuit and it worked without any problems. Need to try them in other circuits, but I fear the gain is so low on mine they'll sound crap anyway. I'm getting a 15 to 25 hfe reading without even taking leakage into account.... I'm amazed it worked in that booster! Man, that data sheet is wrong about the gains, holy shat!!!
If any of the experienced U.S. builders here want a few to experiment with, drop me a message.
Pete: With the ground leg facing you, the pinout should be BCE, if you have the same ones.
i believe these transistors have a shunt resistor in them that's why you read such low gains.
Quote from: bluesdevil on July 25, 2007, 02:37:08 AM
I also received a box of those NPN GT311E russian germs recently. With the ground leg facing you, the pinout should be BCE, if you have the same ones.
is that BCE with the ground leg facing you and looking from the top of the transistor or the bottom?
8)
That would be looking from the top, sorry.
thanks, I'll see if I can get them to bias up with this new pinout :-\
Pete: With the ground leg facing you, the pinout should be BCE, if you have the same ones.
How are you ID'ing the ground leg ?
Mine have the little black dot nearest one outside leg, and the legs exit the body and form an arrow shape [the middle lead is offset].
With the transistor standing' in front of me, and the offset lead facing me [ie the 'arrow' pointing toward me...
Ok, I managed to get a spec sheet from the guy on ebay I bought them off...
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/13/russiantransistorspecshqj4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Damn, I just uploaded a labeled pic. Here it is anyway:
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album129/GT311
Quote from: bluesdevil on July 25, 2007, 05:37:58 PM
Damn, I just uploaded a labeled pic. Here it is anyway:
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album129/GT311
hey, thanks for that anyway - appreciate the effort.
fwiw, that's the pinout I worked out using the diode tester on my DMM but couldn't get it to bias up - still can't with any pinout ???