I found one schem floating around and to improve my poor pcb drawing skills, decided to give it a try.
I think you can guess that this is a clone of a very well known pedal, i renamed it because i don't want to have any troubles with them...
To draw the schem. i used the Express SCH program and to draw the pcb used PCB Wizard 3.
I want to have some feedback to track some mistakes and to improve my pcb. Some mods to the actual schem is also welcome, I'm not talking about adding a switch on the clipping, that one it's quite obvious ...
The schem and pcb are not tested, this is only a prototype...
Here are the files:
Download Crunch_IT.pdf (http://putstuff.putfile.com/67742/5723773)
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2852/crunchitprototypewo8.th.jpg) (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crunchitprototypewo8.jpg)
(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3752/crunchitoh0.th.jpg) (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crunchitoh0.jpg)
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9442/crunchitsilkscreennq2.th.jpg) (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crunchitsilkscreennq2.jpg)
Found one error on the Schematics, only the tone pot was modified.
Here is the update.
Download Crunch_IT.pdf (http://putstuff.putfile.com/67774/6209800)
Sorry for the mistake...
Great work, Samy! Hard to guess what it's based on ::) ;)
Would be great if you'd post the pcb-layout, too!
looks great (but i really dont know what it's based on -send me a PM :( )
Thanks for your kind words.
I will post the pcb file after checking everything, i want to be 100% shure that the pcb is correct.
Quote from: anti-idiot on April 11, 2007, 04:04:01 PM
looks great (but i really dont know what it's based on -send me a PM :( )
same here... im relatively new... but I do love a good clone
Looks like tubescreamer meets distortion+... or more like a ratlike thing... can't quite place it either... Familiar though...
What's up with that tone control? Am I missing something?(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/jprak1/think004.gif)
The op-amp clued me in (in the schem). Oh, and the name ;)
Anyway, I think I'll breadboard this one just for fun. Thanks!
Quote from: Meanderthal on April 11, 2007, 06:58:58 PM
Looks like tubescreamer meets distortion+... or more like a ratlike thing... can't quite place it either... Familiar though...
What's up with that tone control? Am I missing something?(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/jprak1/think004.gif)
Looks like it's altering the R of the RC filter??
thk u so much.. ;D its a clone of a excellent pedal..
QuoteLooks like it's altering the R of the RC filter??
If so, it's a slightly different lowpass method than what I'm used to seeing. But, I'm no expert...
Hmmm... maybe(or maybe not) it affects the fixed rolloff of c8 and to a lesser degree c9... :icon_question: I've never noticed one like that before... :P 'S why I was wondering if there's something I'm missing... not quite yer standard lowpass tacked on the end... but close.
BTW, excellent looking work Samy, whatever it is...(still don't know, too dense to catch the clues) 8)
Quote from: Meanderthal on April 11, 2007, 09:51:20 PM
BTW, excellent looking work Samy, whatever it is...(still don't know, too dense to catch the clues) 8)
What clues??
I don't think I know either! :D
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/MI%20Audio/Crunch%20Box/10/1
:o :o
(im telling!)
just kidding.
who the heck would i tell, anyways?
I'm getting old... never heard of it... but it sure gets good reviews! 8)
Wierd... MI says that it has 3 gain stages (or was it 3 clipping stage?)
I guess that 2 LEDs make a "stage" these days ;)
sound clips??
the reviews look good.
I breadboarded it this morning and it worked. Only thing I had to fiddle with was reversing the outside lugs of the drive control (you might want to double check it--also minimum drive setting kills the signal, I think).
I made a couple of subs, namely 50pf for 100pf and not having an LM833 or TL072 I used the crusty old 4559P. I also used a 100kB for the drive instead of an audio taper (you have your tapers listed as B & C in the schem?). I'm curious what other values might work in the drive control (it has a lot of gain as is, however).
Anyway, from what I remember it sounds close to the original. But, I also was playing at minimum volume through my ruby amp while testing it out (trying not to wake the kid here at 5am) :)
Thanks Samy!
Hi
Is anyone else confused by the strange biasing? Pin 3 (the non-inverting input) seems to connect to 9V via a 1M resistor (R2).
Pin 5 (stage 2 non-inverting input) has a normal, if non-centred bias (ie 10k and 22k resistors to supply and ground, repsectively).
cheers
Are you looking at the pdf samy has posted? there is a voltage divider of 2 22k resistors, creating a virtual ground (4.5V). that is used for biasing both opamps.
The wiring of VR1 is nice, when it goes to zero not only the gain of the opamp is reduced but the signal is lowered by VR1 itself.
With two gain stages of about 100X, the dist+ has only one of 200x, I wonder why it is called crunch it. :D
mac
It looks like R10 (for Vr) is listed as 10k instead of 22k on the PCB layout. Also, I noticed in the schem that R3 is 1k, but is 1M on the PCB.
I have a close up shot of the guts of the orginal on my home computer. I can upload it if anyone is curious.
Quote from: bean on April 12, 2007, 11:19:26 AM
It looks like R10 (for Vr) is listed as 10k instead of 22k on the PCB layout. Also, I noticed in the schem that R3 is 1k, but is 1M on the PCB.
I have a close up shot of the guts of the orginal on my home computer. I can upload it if anyone is curious.
Yes, i have found that error also but i didn´t have time to upload the new files. The schem is correct, the error is in the pcb, sometimes by doing some copy/paste we forget to correct the values... sorry.
I have used the TL072 in the schematics because the PCB Wizard didn´t have the LM833, i think any regular dual opamp with the same pinout will work.
If you have the original fotos, can you check the Drive pot ?
Thanks.
I have the commercial version and have subbed many chips but the LM833 is by far my favorite in this circuit.
Quote from: Samy on April 12, 2007, 03:58:56 PM
I have used the TL072 in the schematics because the PCB Wizard didn´t have the LM833, i think any regular dual opamp with the same pinout will work.
If you have the original fotos, can you check the Drive pot ?
Here it is:
Crunch It! (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/images/crunch_box.JPG)
Quote from: powerplayj on April 12, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I have the commercial version and have subbed many chips but the LM833 is by far my favorite in this circuit.
Have you tried the CMOS opamps like TLC2262 / TLC2272?
Quote from: stm on April 13, 2007, 09:43:10 AM
Quote from: powerplayj on April 12, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I have the commercial version and have subbed many chips but the LM833 is by far my favorite in this circuit.
Have you tried the CMOS opamps like TLC2262 / TLC2272?
just duals like LM1458, JRC2043DD, NJM2043, TL072, LM358, Burr Brown (don't recall the number...the $4.50 one), LM833, JRC4558. Haven you tried those you mentioned?
The reviews on HC sound good, how would you say it is?
What styles does it suit? Metal? Fuzz?
Matt
Quote from: powerplayj on April 13, 2007, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: stm on April 13, 2007, 09:43:10 AM
Have you tried the CMOS opamps like TLC2262 / TLC2272?
just duals like LM1458, JRC2043DD, NJM2043, TL072, LM358, Burr Brown (don't recall the number...the $4.50 one), LM833, JRC4558. Haven you tried those you mentioned?
No, I haven't tried the circuit. My question arised because the opamps I mentioned are used for direct clipping by several NYC Tech 21 pedals, such as the Sansamp GT-2. In this pedal the TLC2262 makes a sonic improvement in comparison to other opamps like TL072.
I've got a stripboard layout of this one going. Hopefully, I will have time to put it together this weekend :)
Mine arrives monday!
I'm going to build another one anyways :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: mattpocket on April 13, 2007, 04:24:00 PM
The reviews on HC sound good, how would you say it is?
What styles does it suit? Metal? Fuzz?
Matt
To me, I would say a Marshall Super Lead meets a JCM/Jubilee. From the lowest amount of gain you're in Trower territory and at half gain EVH. Anything beyond that is G'nR and 80's hair metal (Ratt, Dokken, etc) depending upon where you set the tone control. Probably the most notable thing about it to me is the clarity at higher gain and how well the pedal as a whole sounds with single coils.
Updated files :
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4269/crunchitob3.th.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crunchitob3.jpg)
Here's the pcb in pdf:
Download CrunchIT.pdf (http://putstuff.putfile.com/68503/3190351)
PCB Wizard 3 file:
Download CrunchIT.pcb (http://putstuff.putfile.com/68505/6049808)
I don't know how the program will behave because the 16mm pot was created by me, if you don't have it in your libraries it's possible that one error might occur.
QuoteWhat's up with that tone control? Am I missing something?
(heh- quoting myself) This was buggin' me... looked familiar, yet I couldn't place it... til I remembered this:
http://hammer.ampage.org/files/SWTC.gif (http://hammer.ampage.org/files/SWTC.gif)
:icon_cool:
(the rat tonestack on the right...)
According to the schem the tone control is wired RAT style, not SWTC style. It could be improved to the latter kind.
Also, there seems to be a high end adjusting trimpot in the newer version of the pedal, which I bet it is just a 20k trimpot that replaces resistor R9 (4.7k).
Quote from: stm on April 14, 2007, 09:18:20 AM
...
Also, there seems to be a high end adjusting trimpot in the newer version of the pedal, which I bet it is just a 20k trimpot that replaces resistor R9 (4.7k).
Can anyone confirm that ? It´s very easy to mod the pcb to use the resistor or the trimmer.
Thanks.
Looks good. Thanks. The op amp layout is similar to the Blues Breaker, but the LED's to ground rather than Diodes in the loop, is more like the Shred Master or other Marshal pedal. The tone control is like the Rat, except it is 10K rather than 100K. The last RC network is similar to ??? what I've been using lately on the breadboard and it is really cool for adding bottom end and boody by reducing the High's and upper Mid's. Should work in lots of similar pedals. I would guess the output isn't hugh, but for SS amps it usually doesn't matter. It's in line for the next available breadboard. Hmmm and there is that extra unused op amp in the YJM308. :icon_cool:
I've got a trimmer in place but haven't had a chance to experiment with it. I've completed the stripboard layout for this, as well, if anyone wants it. Too bad I screwed up the sealing on my box...now I have to re-sand and start over :-[
If the trimmer doesn't replace the 4.7K resistor, it should. Very valuable control that would work well on the outside of the box. You could also do a switch and use .047uf - .1uf caps for a very tunable EQ. :icon_cool:
Quote from: bean on April 15, 2007, 12:42:51 PM
I've got a trimmer in place but haven't had a chance to experiment with it. I've completed the stripboard layout for this, as well, if anyone wants it. Too bad I screwed up the sealing on my box...now I have to re-sand and start over :-[
I'll take a copy! gear542 AT gmail DOT com
Verified?
I'll post it a little later. It's verified by me :)
Here it is. Have fun!
:)
(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/images/bean_KrunkLayout.gif)
Thanks!
Mine just arrived today. All I've gotta say is WOW. My favorite dirt box right now. Now I'm going to build one and try different chips and a mosfet/diode instead of the LED mod I saw on a different forum ;D ;D
Very nice. I will give this a try, hopefully tonight. :icon_cool:
Hi,
I have performed the mods up to and including the LEDs on an old Dano Daddy O pedal, but have still retained the three section eq.The only addition to the remaining stock Daddy O was to include the Marshall Guvnors low pass filter after the level control.
I must say that it sounds infinitly better than the stock Dano, and can produce a multitude of Marshally type sounds.
One additional mod was to add a 1nF cap across the drive middle and end lugs to gee up the top end a bit as the drive control is reduced.
I think it was Doug or Mark that first suggested the cap idea.
Cheers
John G
???
Hi,
I ment Mark Hammer...............I think!
John G
Another try for a PCB layout. If anyone cares - PM me and I'll send the ExpressPCB file.
It is yet untested, so lets go through it together. :)
Power supply diode and C10 were omitted.
(http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6313/untitlednn9.th.gif) (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitlednn9.gif)
Hei Mr. Bean ;D ...
you have used 10KB instead the 10KC on the original schematics, how's the "feeling" using the B comparing it to the C pot ?
Thanks
Quote from: bean on April 17, 2007, 10:00:25 PM
Here it is. Have fun!
:)
(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/images/bean_KrunkLayout.gif)
you can me evniar archive DIY? I am thankful
andyeffect@hotmail.com
Quote from: Samy on April 19, 2007, 09:49:16 AM
Hei Mr. Bean ;D ...
you have used 10KB instead the 10KC on the original schematics, how's the "feeling" using the B comparing it to the C pot ?
Thanks
You're right: I subbed 10kB for tone and also 100kA for drive and volume. It was just a matter of what I had on hand. The tone pot feels fine to me. Actually, I like the range of the tone control...the higher settings are actually useful, and not as brittle sounding to me as say a screamer. Using the audio taper on the drive made it a little bunchy, but I don't mind.
Hi,
Further to my previous post I have been experimenting with changing out the op-amp types and pound as others have a huge difference in sound. I also noticed that with the same settings of the guitar and drive control the LEDs lit up differently depending on op-amp type used. The LM833 gave the brightest and and most symmetrical glow of them all ??
I am running the OD of a regulated supply and found that by dropping the PSU setting to 7.5v dc it gave almost all op-amp distortion (ie no LED glow), when on 9.5v dc just about equal op-amp and LED distortion, and when set to 12v dc it was purely all LED distortion. I used the 3mm LEDs but I think the picture posted shows 6mm reds. Does anyone know if they operate differently ?.
Thanks
John G
a "C" labeled pot is the same as a audio taper correct? http://sound.westhost.com/pots.htm#markings
No, "C" taper is reverse log.
Drive pot 1 and 3 need to be reversed on the Vero layout. Sounds great thanks for the cool layout.
Thanks for pointing that out, dosmun.
Please note I've moved the layout to my gallery:
Krunk Layout (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/beanLayouts/Krunk_Vero?full=1)
I added the SWTC to this circuit.
My schem was from a Japanese site so, it may differ I don't know.
Look here; http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/Crunch_d_Box_LAYOUT (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/Crunch_d_Box_LAYOUT)
Sorry my ignorance... SWTC ?
I think i got the schem from a Japanese site or blog too.
Quote from: markm on April 22, 2007, 09:24:06 AM
I added the SWTC to this circuit.
My schem was from a Japanese site so, it may differ I don't know.
Look here; http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/Crunch_d_Box_LAYOUT (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/Crunch_d_Box_LAYOUT)
hy mark,
please check D1 ;-)
best greetings from switzerland,
kusi
Quote from: Samy on April 22, 2007, 10:52:47 AM
Sorry my ignorance... SWTC ?
I think i got the schem from a Japanese site or blog too.
I think he means "Simply Wonderful Tone Control"---an alternative to the stock one.
Quote from: bean on April 22, 2007, 12:00:16 PM
Quote from: Samy on April 22, 2007, 10:52:47 AM
Sorry my ignorance... SWTC ?
I think i got the schem from a Japanese site or blog too.
I think he means "Simply Wonderful Tone Control"---an alternative to the stock one.
Exactly! :icon_wink:
Quote from: kusi on April 22, 2007, 11:28:48 AM
hy mark,
please check D1 ;-)
best greetings from switzerland,
kusi
Hi kusi!!
Great to see ya here!
Thanks for the tip and here's the corrected version;
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/Crunch_d_Box_LAYOUT_001 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/Crunch_d_Box_LAYOUT_001)
I LOVE my stock ...pedal...And I really want to build another. I find that since every settings sound GREAT, I could do with at least one more hehe...Anyone breadboarded one?
The components don't seem that hard to find apart from the opamp and trimmer...
Quote from: pott on April 23, 2007, 10:22:17 AM
Anyone breadboarded one?
Here's my breadboard pic:
(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/images/crunchit.jpg)
Hahah I just realized I meant perfboard haha... but that's good, I can see approximately how big it'd be on it... Thanks!
Thanks again for the schematic. I've been playing with this on the bread board and it sounds pretty good. (Try different caps in addition to the .022uf cap (C9) at the end for different "Browness". .01uf - .1uf should all work with different "character". :icon_cool:
Of course you realize this is mostly op amp distortion. Try it without the LED's and it still sounds pretty cool. Also, try it with the LED's in the feedback loop of the second op amp for a little different sound. A single SI diode in place of the LED's has a slightly fatter/woolier sound to it. If you want to bump the gain up, change the 10K (R4) resistor between the op amps to 1K and the .1uf cap (C3) to a 1uf or better yet, change the 1K (R3) resistor to 100 ohm and the .22uf cap (C5) to 2.2uf. That will boost both op amps. Both mods are probably too much. :icon_twisted: Also try doubling or halfing C5 for different distortion texture. :icon_wink:
Just wanted to drop a thanks for posting this layout! This is one of the best sounding pedals I've built yet. I built to the layout with only one sub. I originally put in a 4558, but found a TL082 lying around collecting dust and tried that. It sounded better so I left it in. I've got an order on the way from smallbear with LM833's and TL072's, but I may just use those elsewhere and leave it as is!
Do we have a schematic? Maybe one with the SWTC?
Quote from: brett on April 25, 2007, 08:21:36 AM
Do we have a schematic? Maybe one with the SWTC?
A PDF with the schem is on the very first post in this thread.
Quote from: stm on April 13, 2007, 09:43:10 AM
Have you tried the CMOS opamps like TLC2262 / TLC2272?
I had a play with it on breadboard using a TS272 CMOS opamp and left out the LEDs for pure opamp distortion and it sounds great. At full gain it's fat and has bags of sustain, it definitely has some Marshall charactor to it, cleans up really nicely as well with the guitar or gain knob. I think it might be a keeper ;D
I'm going to sound like a complete hypocrite now, but I'm not really sure how cool it is to be posting schematics for this pedal though, surely as a current production pedal from a small builder it should be off limits? Although, I suppose seen as how it's basically a Guvnor clone it's fair game.
Suppose I could always buy one, clip out the LEDs and change the opamp.
Quote from: slacker on April 29, 2007, 02:01:25 PM
I'm going to sound like a complete hypocrite now, but I'm not really sure how cool it is to be posting schematics for this pedal though, surely as a current production pedal from a small builder it should be off limits?
Ordinarily I may have agreed but, this schem is on more Japanese web-sites than the Tube-Screamer. :)
Supposedly, the HotCake is too but, I haven't seen it.
Fair enough, I didn't realise the cat was already so out of the bag.
>:(
naughty :icon_lol:
I just breadboarded this circuit using the schematic link on the first page, and I'm very impressed. I started out with a TL072, and tried a 4558 (which didn't sound as good to me- it was a bit darker and sort of muddy), and then a 5532, which sounds fantastic. It's got more mid attack to it, and sounds "punchier." I settled on green LEDs, one each direction, and when I box it up I plan on having a switch for the diodes in or out.
With the diodes out there is less gain but it's less compressed (more "open") and sounds great for medium-heavy rock styles.
Thanks for posting the information on this. I might end up using the PCB layout provided, but it's more fun for me to make my own. Thanks for sharing, though.
-Alex
P.S. I saw some requests for breadboard pics, so I'll post one of mine shortly just in case it can help someone.
Quote from: bean on April 17, 2007, 10:00:25 PM
Here it is. Have fun!
:)
(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/images/bean_KrunkLayout.gif)
Bean,
Do you still have a copy of the stripboard layout somewhere? The image in your post (bean_KrunkLayout.gif) doesn't exist anymore...
Thanx!