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Hi All,

I had a request for some custom work and it required me to redo my bending rig. In doing so, I have increased the capacity of the material I am able to work with. To that end, I think it may now be possible for me to design and fabricate a fully functional Wah enclosure that could incorporate the design elements that are most desirable.

Along those lines, I need input from this community. Here are some of the guidelines that I am starting with:

Wah casing itself built with .125 sides, .080 top and bottom and the foot paddle out of .250. (All aluminum of course.... :-)

I am thinking that as of now, I could make the top and bottom both removeable, but that is not set in stone.

Of course, I'd be designing all the brackets and mounting stuff needed for the footswitch and the pot. No issues there at all.

Things I do not know about for sure:

1) How much foot travel in terms of degrees. In some preliminary drawings, I was thinking between 10 and 15 degrees, but I am not sure... I do not have a wah to compare against. What is common along these lines?

2) I know that some wahs do not make full use of pot travel, but I want a design that makes the most of it, so how many degrees of turn will we need and mechanically, what are the best options. I know the normal rack and pinion system has fallen short, but not sure if that can be modified to make up the difference or will we need another approach. I was wondering if maybe using an additional gear or so to leverage gear ratios to make full use of pot travel, but I do not know how many teeth per inch the current rack and pinion system uses. If someone can provide the tpi info on the current rack and pinion system, I can investigate options here....

3) I was initially looking at footprint of the entire casing of about 3.5 x 10 (with my trademark rounded corners) with a slope from front to back of about 4 degrees and having the foot paddle be about 3 x 9 inches or so. Again, these are not set in stone.

4) Should we allow adequate shoulder room for top mounted pots and switches?

5) A wild suggestion here... should we allow for the possibility of spring loading the foot paddle? If the heel is under spring pressure, it will keep the toe pulled up, so pushing down only requires overcoming the spring tension... I'm not thinking in radical terms here, but more along the lines of "Power Assisted"... something to think about... the good thing is that the design could accommodate it, regardless of whether you used it or not.

6) Another radical option... a split foot paddle. Not sure if it would be something you could use, but it is something I can build. Would it be an option to have a split in the paddle so that you can maybe set the notch with one side and wah with the other? Volume on one side and wah on the other? Two volume pedals in one casing? Two differently voiced wah pedals in one enclosure running in parallel? Go crazy here... or is it even worth thinking about?

7) I am also looking at making this enclosure to have the ability to easily side up to my very large enclosures so that you could fasten the wah casing to the side of the large one to have an integrated system. Again, this would be an optional deal, with the entire casing design able to stand alone easily as well.

I am pretty sure I am missing something so any additional input is appreciated. I may not be able to implement all suggestions, but can certainly try.

Many Thanks,

Mick

http://filters.muziq.be/model/mica/wauwaufuzz (http://filters.muziq.be/model/mica/wauwaufuzz) Dunno much answers but this was sheet metal work and had two pots and two stompswitches plus usual wah pot and on off switch under the pedal

I think the reason most wahs dont use the whole travel of the pot is because it can damage the pot.  It's a fine line between utilising the whole travel of the pot, and putting too much pressure on the most used and weakest (from a damage perspective) part of a mechanical system.

I for one would love to see what you can come up with.  I think this is the final diy frontier for cases!  Our options have always been limited to gutting and old wah, or getting funky with sewing machine treddles!  (More recently we have the small bear option too)

Best of luck to you in this!!  If you can keep the price under $40, I think you might have a winner.


As a side note, it has always been my dream to make an auto wah with a regular wah pedal.  But by using a motor to make the wah move at a set up and down ratio.  If I could achieve this by using steam power, that would make me even happier!

Quote from: Nasse on May 03, 2008, 03:12:59 PM
http://filters.muziq.be/model/mica/wauwaufuzz (http://filters.muziq.be/model/mica/wauwaufuzz) Dunno much answers but this was sheet metal work and had two pots and two stompswitches plus usual wah pot and on off switch under the pedal

Hey Nasse,

Actually looks like to me that the base of that one is cast but it's hard to know for sure without actually looking from the inside.

I do see potential though in making the heel end that much narrower than the toe... makes it easier to get pots and switches on the case without having to make the whole casing really really wide.

Thanks for the post.

Quote from: tiges_ tendres on May 03, 2008, 03:39:23 PM
I think the reason most wahs dont use the whole travel of the pot is because it can damage the pot.  It's a fine line between utilising the whole travel of the pot, and putting too much pressure on the most used and weakest (from a damage perspective) part of a mechanical system.

I for one would love to see what you can come up with.  I think this is the final diy frontier for cases!  Our options have always been limited to gutting and old wah, or getting funky with sewing machine treddles!  (More recently we have the small bear option too)

Best of luck to you in this!!  If you can keep the price under $40, I think you might have a winner.


As a side note, it has always been my dream to make an auto wah with a regular wah pedal.  But by using a motor to make the wah move at a set up and down ratio.  If I could achieve this by using steam power, that would make me even happier!

Noted issue on the pot being the weakest link in the mechanical chain. Calibration and the ability to calibrate over a wide range would be key to maximizing the pot use. What I was wondering is if I could use the existing pinion and rack system but find an additional gear that would allow for some tweakability if we were to try to use gear ratios to our advantage.... still not sure that would work.. another option would be to use a cam and lever type system that I have seen around but that may or may not work as well... got to play around with some stuff...

As for price... I'm no where near being able to even estimate that.

Thanks,

Mick

Mick

You are a maniac for taking this on! In a good way of course. This is a great thing!

Some ideas would be:
To make the treadle travel variable.
A screw under the treadle with a rubber pad that can be adjusted would work I think. Micro adjust/ calibration!!
The travel would have to be limited so you don't tear up the pot once the full travel is reached (as mentioned in the post above). With some care you could adjust the screw so the pot doesn't quite travel all the way saving the pot from being over torqued.

You could have a screw at the heal as well to set the heel down limit.
Actually, now that I think about it you could just have the screws come up out of the base of the wah shell instead of the treadle, might be easier... The screw and rubber pad would contact the treadle bottom setting the travel limit.

As far as the teeth per inch etc. You may need to make a new rack because the typical ones I don't think will be long enough. With the heel down in most wahs the rack runs just off the pinion. Shouldn't be too hard to do this though.

Pots are easily mounted on the sides of a wah but top mounted would be pretty cool. Maybe just enough room for a small knob row on the right. 16mm pot is pretty small.

Spring loading seems cool but you would have to have some sort of a soft touch switch to turn on the unit when you step down, I guess it depends on the application.

The split treadle seems cool but I'd keep it simple and make a single unit for now. If it was split it would be best as a full size dual I think.

At any rate, this is good stuff mick, thanks for taking this on.

John

I think this is great that you are trying this.

All I would want it a wah with a bit more sweep than stock Vox/Dunlop ones. Also cost, I cant spend $41 on a wah shell at Smallbear.

Quote from: John Lyons on May 03, 2008, 06:47:03 PM
Mick

You are a maniac for taking this on! In a good way of course. This is a great thing!

Some ideas would be:
To make the treadle travel variable.
A screw under the treadle with a rubber pad that can be adjusted would work I think. Micro adjust/ calibration!!
The travel would have to be limited so you don't tear up the pot once the full travel is reached (as mentioned in the post above). With some care you could adjust the screw so the pot doesn't quite travel all the way saving the pot from being over torqued.

You could have a screw at the heal as well to set the heel down limit.
Actually, now that I think about it you could just have the screws come up out of the base of the wah shell instead of the treadle, might be easier... The screw and rubber pad would contact the treadle bottom setting the travel limit.

As far as the teeth per inch etc. You may need to make a new rack because the typical ones I don't think will be long enough. With the heel down in most wahs the rack runs just off the pinion. Shouldn't be too hard to do this though.

Pots are easily mounted on the sides of a wah but top mounted would be pretty cool. Maybe just enough room for a small knob row on the right. 16mm pot is pretty small.

Spring loading seems cool but you would have to have some sort of a soft touch switch to turn on the unit when you step down, I guess it depends on the application.

The split treadle seems cool but I'd keep it simple and make a single unit for now. If it was split it would be best as a full size dual I think.

At any rate, this is good stuff mick, thanks for taking this on.

John

Thanks for the comments John and kurtlives.

Yeah John, there are tons of options that are easy enough to implement for making adjustments and calibrations as needed.

The trick for me is maximizing the pot travel without increasing wear on the pot, or inducing injury... That is where the first law of DIY comes in... First do no harm....

I'm still thinking on some options... might try to post some prelim drawings in the next couple of days....

Thanks,

Mick

Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

(http://www.elderly.com/items/images/135U/135U-3470_side.jpg)

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

It would be in a VP Jr. enclosure. Like the new EB Wha. :) I absolutely love the travel and the feel of an Ernie Ball volume pedal. It turns riding your volume into surfing the volume.

(https://www.shopatron.com/img/product_images/574/e4ba1210792830b98f31f225c771f7ac.jpg)

It's only a little thing, but since you asked-

6 screws holding the baseplate on.

I like a little bit more angle on my wah so that it- as in the whole pedal, not just the treadle- is higher than normal at the toe , and higher on the right. It may only me 5mm front to back, and 5mm left to right, but it makes a lot of difference to me.

Adjusting that angle so far has been as simple as a longer travel for longer screws that have higher feet. But if there were two more screws holding on the baseplate, it makes it so much more workable.

Also, two pots- for me, rotary switch for capacitors, and volume knob off the output buffer.

ALSO ;)

Fox Foot Phaser is a good design to me. Not that we copy anything, of course...

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 04, 2008, 12:01:11 AM
Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

Hey AC,

I really like the way the treadle there is done but sadly, I do not have the ability to bend my metal in that manner.. I'd need a different style break. Also, 'ditto' on the outcropping.. I got some plans along those lines.

Quote from: iaresee on May 04, 2008, 01:36:31 AM
It would be in a VP Jr. enclosure. Like the new EB Wha. :) I absolutely love the travel and the feel of an Ernie Ball volume pedal. It turns riding your volume into surfing the volume.

I really like this design as well... EB actually uses a pulley system for turning the pot.. something to investigate

Quote from: DiamondDog on May 04, 2008, 06:34:24 AM
It's only a little thing, but since you asked-

6 screws holding the baseplate on.

I like a little bit more angle on my wah so that it- as in the whole pedal, not just the treadle- is higher than normal at the toe , and higher on the right. It may only me 5mm front to back, and 5mm left to right, but it makes a lot of difference to me.

Adjusting that angle so far has been as simple as a longer travel for longer screws that have higher feet. But if there were two more screws holding on the baseplate, it makes it so much more workable.

Also, two pots- for me, rotary switch for capacitors, and volume knob off the output buffer.

ALSO ;)

Fox Foot Phaser is a good design to me. Not that we copy anything, of course...

6 screws to hold the bottom plate on probably won't be a problem.

Also, my intent is to incorporate enough of a shoulder on this shell to accommodate pot's and switches.

Thanks All for your suggestions.. I really appreciate them.

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 05, 2008, 12:52:45 AM

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 04, 2008, 12:01:11 AM
Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

Hey AC,

I really like the way the treadle there is done but sadly, I do not have the ability to bend my metal in that manner.. I'd need a different style break. Also, 'ditto' on the outcropping.. I got some plans along those lines.

Mick

Yep...the little "outcropping" would only need to be large enough for a switch and a LED IMO. Any other switches / pots could be put on the side of the pedal like a traditional fuzz-wah

btw...IMO, if you make the "right" features, and make it different from whats currently available, then price won't be nearly as much of an issue.

Something like this....bad "drawing", but you get the idea...


Oh...and I would make it "tall" enough on the sides to use one of the slide in battery trays ( http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=137 )



(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1226934/wah1.GIF)

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 05, 2008, 01:10:09 AM

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 05, 2008, 12:52:45 AM

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 04, 2008, 12:01:11 AM
Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

Hey AC,

I really like the way the treadle there is done but sadly, I do not have the ability to bend my metal in that manner.. I'd need a different style break. Also, 'ditto' on the outcropping.. I got some plans along those lines.

Mick

Yep...the little "outcropping" would only need to be large enough for a switch and a LED IMO. Any other switches / pots could be put on the side of the pedal like a traditional fuzz-wah

btw...IMO, if you make the "right" features, and make it different from whats currently available, then price won't be nearly as much of an issue.

Very Good Points You Make! (Said in a Yoder like manner... :-)

To follow-up on your drawing... I'm not sure I can engineer an outcropping in that manner due to the current system I use to bend the sides of my enclosures. I can only bend 'outside' corners, so the one inside corner would be tough.

However, I like the idea of having enough real estate in that area to put in an additional footswitch. I will see what I can draw up in the next day or two.

Thanks again AC for your suggestions and for the drawing. It really helped me to see what you were referring to. I hope I can engineer a system to actually do it.

+1 on the battery tray though.. do you have a dimension of one handy?

Thanks,

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 05, 2008, 01:25:27 AM

+1 on the battery tray though.. do you have a dimension of one handy?

Thanks,

Mick

I'm sure Steve 2 Small Bear could give you the dimensions...after all, it would increase his sales of that part number...

What about doing it like a "heavy duty" version of a Colorsound  wah ?


Like this....


(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1226934/wah2.GIF)

looks like a morley to me.

Quote from: tehfunk on May 05, 2008, 01:44:25 AM
looks like a morley to me.

kind of...but thats only because its a quick drawing....basically i'm thinking a colorsound / morley type combo

so what is special about the colorsound case (advantages)?

Quote from: tehfunk on May 05, 2008, 01:48:16 AM
so what is special about the colorsound case (advantages)?

I never said there were advantages...I just like the looks and the footprint...lots of room for fuzzes, trems, etc inside...   ;)

what i don't like about them was the thin gauge metal Colorsound used.

ohhh interesting, yeah I am always disappointed about that in the traditional crybaby shape.

Like this, except extending the base on one side out about 2 inches to allow room for a switch / LED / pots....

(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/Graham_Green_Devon/044004f4.jpg)

Like this son of a bitch...

(http://i18.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ed/3e/d812_1.JPG)

Quote from: leonhendrix on May 05, 2008, 02:05:16 AM
Like this son of a bitch...

(http://i18.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ed/3e/d812_1.JPG)

EXACTLY !

 :o Wow.Excellent.Care to share some sample? :o :icon_lol:

That Colorsound one is getting real close to what I am able to easily do.

Couple of quick questions:

Do we want the top removeable? Actually, the more I think about this, the more I tend to think not. Having it removeable means a whole lot more work to get it really tight and good looking and that will increase the cost.

Are rubber bumpers a must have? I was planning on engineering the angles to get away from having them, but it seems like all of these have them, so I guess there is a valid reason for them to be there. I can certianly see one at the toe to help protect the footswitch, but it's not like that switch isn't designed to be stepped on anyway, so I am not positive that it needs to be there.

Thanks much for all the suggestions.

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 05, 2008, 10:37:37 AM
That Colorsound one is getting real close to what I am able to easily do.

Have I told you lately that I love you ?

Quote
Couple of quick questions:

Do we want the top removeable? Actually, the more I think about this, the more I tend to think not. Having it removeable means a whole lot more work to get it really tight and good looking and that will increase the cost.

IMO, just the bottom needs to be removable.

Quote
Are rubber bumpers a must have? I was planning on engineering the angles to get away from having them, but it seems like all of these have them, so I guess there is a valid reason for them to be there. I can certianly see one at the toe to help protect the footswitch, but it's not like that switch isn't designed to be stepped on anyway, so I am not positive that it needs to be there.

It would be easy enough for us to buy a set of $2 stick on "rubber feet" and use those...so not a big deal to me...

Quote
Thanks much for all the suggestions.

Mick

Heck...thank YOU for even thinking about making these.

If they're anything like the Colorsound one, I'll DEFINITELY be interested.

So, to summarize... CS style above with removable bottom, 2" or so "extension" that sticks out from the right side for an added footswitch / pots / etc, enough height for a battery drawer, and made of a reasonable gauge metal that will be durable.

I dig that morley/colorsound wah example as well. Nice to have some knob/switch space on top.
The other thing is that it will double nicely for bigger builds needing more board/knob space.

john

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 05, 2008, 10:56:45 AM
Have I told you lately that I love you ?

aaaawwwww shucks....  ;D ;D ;D

I am starting to feel like Steve Watson from that old Monster House series.....

Tall enough for a battery tray: DONE

Wide enough for a row of pots and switches: DONE

Only top removeable: DONE

Built like a tank: DONE

Now I just have to figure out the mechanics required to turn that pot more than the next guy....

Quote from: John Lyons on May 05, 2008, 11:24:12 AM
I dig that morley/colorsound wah example as well. Nice to have some knob/switch space on top.
The other thing is that it will double nicely for bigger builds needing more board/knob space.

john

Yeah. There should be enough room in this enclosure for a bunch of optional stuff... at least I hope so anyway!

Thanks again all for your suggestions. Keep them coming!

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 05, 2008, 11:28:06 AM

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 05, 2008, 10:56:45 AM
Have I told you lately that I love you ?

aaaawwwww shucks....  ;D ;D ;D

You're not the only one. Date me!   ;)

I'd be very interested in these wah enclosures. These specs listed would be ideal for any DIYer.

Magnus Nordbye

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 05, 2008, 12:52:45 AM

Quote from: iaresee on May 04, 2008, 01:36:31 AM
It would be in a VP Jr. enclosure. Like the new EB Wha. :) I absolutely love the travel and the feel of an Ernie Ball volume pedal. It turns riding your volume into surfing the volume.

I really like this design as well... EB actually uses a pulley system for turning the pot.. something to investigate

The pulley system really makes it smoooooooth. And there's enough room for knobs to protrude from the side. You could big up the enclosure a bit, to full size EB shape, for even more space. End the enclosure a bit past the toe of the treadle so you can mount an LED up there maybe. The EB volume pedal is one of those perfect form-meets-function designs. I'm sure they've got a lock on that design though.

Quote from: John Lyons on May 05, 2008, 11:24:12 AM
I dig that morley/colorsound wah example as well. Nice to have some knob/switch space on top.
The other thing is that it will double nicely for bigger builds needing more board/knob space.

john

Maestro FSH1 with built in voltage controller ?   :icon_eek:

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 05, 2008, 02:54:43 PM

Quote from: John Lyons on May 05, 2008, 11:24:12 AM
I dig that morley/colorsound wah example as well. Nice to have some knob/switch space on top.
The other thing is that it will double nicely for bigger builds needing more board/knob space.

john

Maestro FSH1 with built in voltage controller ?   :icon_eek:

There are tons of options along these lines and even the option of having a large enclosure like this that does not have the foot paddle and it's associated stuff. Just another big enclosure...  ;D ;D ;D

Mick

I would REALLY be interested in these if they were as reasonably priced as your other handmade offerings.

This is a fantastic idea!

One suggestion would be to make it big enough for people to toss in GEO's neovide PCB, and possibly have enough room for the transformer.

That would be killer!

The colorsound one looks very cool and retro. +1 on that type of design.

I like the way the string feels, but hate the fact that it breaks and is almost impossible to fix.

+1 on the Colorsound model.

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 04, 2008, 12:01:11 AM
Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

(http://www.elderly.com/items/images/135U/135U-3470_side.jpg)

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

I have a couple of those DOD FX-17s. That is a very simple enclosure to make. If it had a little more travel, it could work well for a standard wah circuit.

Quote from: aron on May 05, 2008, 06:32:15 PM
I like the way the string feels, but hate the fact that it breaks and is almost impossible to fix.

I agree, the Ernie Ball string system is a real pain in the rear to fix. I devised a special tool to reach in there and grab the string when mine broke once. I got some wax coated string at Walmart to replace the piece that broke.

Here is my crude attempt at building a volume pedal this weekend.  I tried using the Ernie Ball method.  The spindle is an old thread spindle and the string is a shoestring.  It doesn't work quite right yet because the string slips and the pot alignment eventually goes out.  So I start with 0 volume at heel down and after about 4 or 5 movements it doesn't go to 0 anymore.  That may be an issue if you go with the Ernie Ball idea.

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04543.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04542.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04545.jpg)

Jason

Quote from: jasonsmusicgear on May 05, 2008, 07:19:55 PM
Here is my crude attempt at building a volume pedal this weekend.  I tried using the Ernie Ball method.  The spindle is an old thread spindle and the string is a shoestring.  It doesn't work quite right yet because the string slips and the pot alignment eventually goes out.  So I start with 0 volume at heel down and after about 4 or 5 movements it doesn't go to 0 anymore.  That may be an issue if you go with the Ernie Ball idea.

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04543.jpg)


Jason

Dude!  That is still seriously impressive, even with its flaws you described.

Quote from: aron on May 05, 2008, 06:32:15 PM
I like the way the string feels, but hate the fact that it breaks and is almost impossible to fix.

I like the feeling of rocking an EV VP Jr so much I'm willing to tolerate it. I keep a spare on hand.

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 05, 2008, 01:53:21 AM
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/Graham_Green_Devon/044004f4.jpg)

Holy crap, that is cool! I didn't know Mr. Marshall built anything like that. Is this yours?

......

Hi All,

I have another issue that I do not have an immediate cure for... and that is providing a non-slip surface on the foot paddle. There are many ways to go here but I have been leaning towards that 60 grit safety tape in something like 3/4 inch strips.... either a couple across the paddle or a couple of strips along it.... The reason I am leaning more this way than covering the whole pedal is for decorative reasons. Or, I can most likely grain the finish of the top of the paddle and leave it be.. or at the very least, the top of the paddle will be sanded so it would be able to take paint well.

What are some thoughts along this line?

Also Jason, great work on your volume pedal. To help with keeping it calibrated you might try cutting the string length so that it only wraps around the spool once maybe twice at the most. If you find that it still slips, wrap the spool in some fine grade sand paper. You might also want to see if you can verify which part is actually slipping, the spool on the pot or the string around the spool. Great work all around though!

Thanks all,

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 06, 2008, 10:53:56 AM
Hi All,

I have another issue that I do not have an immediate cure for... and that is providing a non-slip surface on the foot paddle. There are many ways to go here but I have been leaning towards that 60 grit safety tape in something like 3/4 inch strips.... either a couple across the paddle or a couple of strips along it.... The reason I am leaning more this way than covering the whole pedal is for decorative reasons. Or, I can most likely grain the finish of the top of the paddle and leave it be.. or at the very least, the top of the paddle will be sanded so it would be able to take paint well.

What are some thoughts along this line?

Also Jason, great work on your volume pedal. To help with keeping it calibrated you might try cutting the string length so that it only wraps around the spool once maybe twice at the most. If you find that it still slips, wrap the spool in some fine grade sand paper. You might also want to see if you can verify which part is actually slipping, the spool on the pot or the string around the spool. Great work all around though!

Thanks all,

Mick

I would just provide a self adhesive rubber tread along with the enclosure. That way people can paint/decorate it how they want and stick the rubber on afterwards. You could have additional options as extras. Maybe people will want to use their own ideas? This is DIY after all!

Quote from: nelson on May 06, 2008, 12:30:22 PM


I would just provide a self adhesive rubber tread along with the enclosure. That way people can paint/decorate it how they want and stick the rubber on afterwards. You could have additional options as extras. Maybe people will want to use their own ideas? This is DIY after all!

+1

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 06, 2008, 10:53:56 AM

Also Jason, great work on your volume pedal. To help with keeping it calibrated you might try cutting the string length so that it only wraps around the spool once maybe twice at the most. If you find that it still slips, wrap the spool in some fine grade sand paper. You might also want to see if you can verify which part is actually slipping, the spool on the pot or the string around the spool. Great work all around though!

Thanks for the advice Mic, I know the spool is not slipping because I put a screw through it which holds the pot securely in place.  I will try the sand paper.  I also noticed the post by Paul Marossy saying he used waxed string as a replacement for his Ernie Ball pedal, I'll try to find some.

Also, thanks to Paul Marossy for his wah tutorials at www.diyguitarist.com.  Most of my ideas came from him.

Back to your original topic, I like all the ideas so far but it would also be cool if you could make a bare bones wah enclosure for the price sensitive builders, I think you could sell a ton of those.

Jason

Whatever design, work through prototypes, some of the best designs are "design as you go". Also record yours or someone else's foot playing a wah and study how it moves up and down.

WOW Yaw,

I have been looking high and low for technical info on the rack and pinion system that Dunlop uses and I have not found anything. As a last ditch effort, I actually thought maybe the Dunlop website might have some answers, so I was looking around it, but alas, there was no info there.

So I hit the tech support link and there was a number to call. So I called it.

I got the guitar department but he readily transferred me to the Electronics dept.

I spoke with Abraham. What a super cool doode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first words out of my mouth were: "I've got a question for you I bet you have never heard"

He said "Well, I'm sitting down, hit me!"

So I asked "How many teeth per inch on the Rack and pinion system for the wah"

He said "You know what, I have never had that question, but I'll get my calipers and measure it for ya!"

So in the few minutes we talked I got several key measurements from him so that I can start really investigating the technical side of getting these mechanical issues worked out.

So, in short, the Jim Dunlop Support guy's are super helpful and I would not hesitate to call them again!

Get this as well, I never talked to a machine! What a novel concept!

More news to come as I get some drawings worked up!

Thanks all,

Mick

Praise the humans!  ;D

The best looking wah enclosure I ever saw (Visual Volume excepted!) was a Shin-Ei. It had the low rectangular bottom, but the rocker was trapezoidal, wide at the toe and narrow at the heel. That left room for one footswitch and one knob on each side of the heel, and the heel of the rocker kept you from squashing the knob and footswitch when you didn't want to.

Another useful, if more ungainly one, had a rocker like the letter "H" rotated 90 degrees and stretched. The wide parts were at the toe and heel, connected with the skinny crossbar. That left the space in the middle beside the actual pivot point for controls.

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 06, 2008, 02:50:30 PM
WOW Yaw,

I have been looking high and low for technical info on the rack and pinion system that Dunlop uses and I have not found anything. As a last ditch effort, I actually thought maybe the Dunlop website might have some answers, so I was looking around it, but alas, there was no info there.

So I hit the tech support link and there was a number to call. So I called it.

I got the guitar department but he readily transferred me to the Electronics dept.

I spoke with Abraham. What a super cool doode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first words out of my mouth were: "I've got a question for you I bet you have never heard"

He said "Well, I'm sitting down, hit me!"

So I asked "How many teeth per inch on the Rack and pinion system for the wah"

He said "You know what, I have never had that question, but I'll get my calipers and measure it for ya!"

So in the few minutes we talked I got several key measurements from him so that I can start really investigating the technical side of getting these mechanical issues worked out.

So, in short, the Jim Dunlop Support guy's are super helpful and I would not hesitate to call them again!

Get this as well, I never talked to a machine! What a novel concept!

More news to come as I get some drawings worked up!

Thanks all,

Mick

Things like that restore my faith in humanity.

Quote from: R.G. on May 06, 2008, 04:47:22 PM
The best looking wah enclosure I ever saw (Visual Volume excepted!) was a Shin-Ei. It had the low rectangular bottom, but the rocker was trapezoidal, wide at the toe and narrow at the heel. That left room for one footswitch and one knob on each side of the heel, and the heel of the rocker kept you from squashing the knob and footswitch when you didn't want to.

Kinda like this ?

(http://www1.neweb.ne.jp/wb/wai/inst/elkFuzz.jpg)

Quote
Another useful, if more ungainly one, had a rocker like the letter "H" rotated 90 degrees and stretched. The wide parts were at the toe and heel, connected with the skinny crossbar. That left the space in the middle beside the actual pivot point for controls.

(http://www.gig-fx.com/images/product/megawah/megawah250black.jpg)

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 06, 2008, 10:53:56 AM
I have another issue that I do not have an immediate cure for... and that is providing a non-slip surface on the foot paddle. <snip> What are some thoughts along this line?

I'd leave it as bare metal. Then people can decide if they want to go rubber or (my preference) skateboard grip tape.

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 06, 2008, 05:00:01 PM

(http://www1.neweb.ne.jp/wb/wai/inst/elkFuzz.jpg)

(http://www.gig-fx.com/images/product/megawah/megawah250black.jpg)

I'd be worried about fitting bigger, more complex circuits into the elk design. Cause it would be really awesome if we could fit the neovide, or something similar in size in there.

The mega wah loks cool, but would this be easy(ier) to make? It's very space efficient (for pots) for sure though.

Some others that look neat:

(http://files.muziq.be/pics/colorsound_fuzzphaze_002.jpg)

(http://files.muziq.be/pics/roland_ad-50_002.jpg)

(http://files.muziq.be/pics/foxx_fuzz&wa_004.jpg)

(http://files.muziq.be/pics/musitronics_flanger_001.jpg)

(http://files.muziq.be/pics/shin-ei_wf-24_001.jpg)

(http://files.muziq.be/pics/rosac_nu-wa-fuzz_003.jpg)

I've been thinking about this since the thread started, and since I need to start posting...

My ideal "wah casing" would be a minimal, serviceable "expression" pedal.  I did some searching, but didn't find any reason that a wah pcb could not be put into a regular enclosure, and just have an another jack for an expression pedal or similar controller.  Please correct me if I overlooked a thread.

After years of playing a Crybaby, this very thread made me realize that I didn't have to have the "toe forward to depress switch" method.  Yes,  I know there are wahs that have the switches other places, and if the DIY bug hadn't bitten me, I may have just purchased one.

Why worry about making an enclosure "big enough" to fix $foo project in, when you could just separate the controller and brain?

(Obligatory "this forum and it's members are awesome" statement.  This *is* a wonderful community.)

Thanks guys for all the posts!

Quote from: WaxDragon on May 07, 2008, 01:27:43 AM
I've been thinking about this since the thread started, and since I need to start posting...

First off, Welcome WaxDragon. This is an awesome community!

The pictures are really cool... lot's of idea's to be had....

Progress Report:

I am probably not too far from building the base of the enclosure... actually, I can probably build the base, paddle and pivot parts and get that all mounted. My initial build will have a removeable top, but that is for prototyping purposes.

Also, a request for assistance. Does anyone with a Dunlop rack and pinion  and also possibly have a Gear Pitch Gage. I need to be able to confirm the pitch on the rack and pinion. Based on some preliminary calculations I have arrived at a pitch of 32, but I am not 100% for sure.

If no one has a Gear Pitch Gage to try, then at least a count of the number of teeth on the pinion. I found a pic online and counted 14, but it was not a really clear picture so I am not sure I got the actual number correct.

Also, perhaps more important... can someone measure the amount of travel the pot goes thru for a standard Dunlop system. Abraham at Dunlop thought the pot went thru about 180 degrees of travel, but that was a guess.. can anyone confirm? Also, what is the max possible travel. The Alpha pots have a 300 degree turn radius, is that similar to what the current wah pots use... I would imagine it is, but I am also not sure since I do not have any wah pots handy.

My thinking now is that if the standard wah pots have the same 300 degrees possible, then I want to see if I can get 250 - 260 degrees out of my enclosure.... we will see.. depends on the pitch and what parts can be gotten off the shelf...

Also, I do plan to offer a plain jane build that can be used as an expression pedal.

I plan to make the casing large enough to accompany both the UniVibe and the ADA... yeah baby.....

I also plan to offer just the larger casing with no paddle or it's associated stuff... it will be a little smaller than my 6.5 x 14 build and thus, a little more affordable.

I am also contemplating putting a recess along the right side, kinda like the back side of my current pedals... not set in stone on this, but it has not been done based on any of the pics that have been posted here...

I also have one other trick up my sleeve but am not going to reveal that until I can get a little further down the road.

Again, Many Thanks for all the posts and suggestions!

Quote from: MovingInSloMo on May 06, 2008, 02:11:29 PM
Whatever design, work through prototypes, some of the best designs are "design as you go". Also record yours or someone else's foot playing a wah and study how it moves up and down.

Eh,this ones were really "design as I went" :)

http://www.geocities.com/stompboxworktop/wahwah2.html

These were along time ago, sorry for the crappy photos!
Pedro

Quote from: Pedro Freitas on May 07, 2008, 06:01:37 PM

Quote from: MovingInSloMo on May 06, 2008, 02:11:29 PM
Whatever design, work through prototypes, some of the best designs are "design as you go". Also record yours or someone else's foot playing a wah and study how it moves up and down.

Eh,this ones were really "design as I went" :)

http://www.geocities.com/stompboxworktop/wahwah2.html

These were along time ago, sorry for the crappy photos!
Pedro

Now, this post brings up some nice options....

For starters, I can build a mechanisim around slide pots very easily.. it would be easy to calibrate and would utilize all the pot travel. However, will slide pots work for all the possible options that a casing like this can offer... Wah, volume, controller etc.....

Also, doing a slide pot opens up several options for moving the slider that can give a really really smooth feel, I would think much like the feel of the EB stuff.... hhhhhmmmmm

A cursory look thru the trusty  Mouser catalog finds many throws and values of slide pots available and they all seem to be rather economical.... hhhmmmmm

Shall I continue down this road or are there major issues with slide pots that I am not aware of.....

Thanks,

Mick

^^ That's some creative shit right there.

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 07, 2008, 07:30:38 PM
Now, this post brings up some nice options....

For starters, I can build a mechanisim around slide pots very easily.. it would be easy to calibrate and would utilize all the pot travel. However, will slide pots work for all the possible options that a casing like this can offer... Wah, volume, controller etc.....

Also, doing a slide pot opens up several options for moving the slider that can give a really really smooth feel, I would think much like the feel of the EB stuff.... hhhhhmmmmm

A cursory look thru the trusty  Mouser catalog finds many throws and values of slide pots available and they all seem to be rather economical.... hhhmmmmm

Shall I continue down this road or are there major issues with slide pots that I am not aware of.....

Thanks,

Mick

Well check out how Morley did this 4 channel volume pedal that I got last week. It's all slide pot based:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/ugly_guitar_guy/volguts.jpg)

I can get you some more detailed pictures if you need them but it's pretty much strings attached to both ends of the pedal pulling the pots back and forth.

This thread reminds me of one of the saddest days in my life...  :icon_sad: :icon_cry:

Quote from: puretube on May 07, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
This thread reminds me of one of the saddest days in my life...  :icon_sad: :icon_cry:

I'm not sure I want to ask... but this post has my curiosity going thru the roof doode.... I hope it's not a really really sad day in a bad way type story....

One of the main problems with wahs is that the pots do wear out. get scratchy etc.
Slide pots in general are pretty whimpy and fail sooner than rotary pots, especially the cheaper ones.
The "good" pots are heavier duty claristat, allen and bradley and more curently speaking specially made wah pots, some with different tapers IE "Icar". Most of the old "good" pots were sealed military grade 2 watt pots.

FOr a volume pot you would want an audio taper pot and for some specialty circuits like the neovibe or tremolo you want a reverse taper, all not available in slide pots (for the most part, inexpensively that is)

I'd stick with the rotary pot mechanism.

John

  To me, modern wah designs with rack & pinion were designed by Jerry the mouse in the dark ages...lack cool features, aren't DIY friendly, and look comparitely expensive to mass produce. 
  Scrap the R/P/Gear/Dshaft pot, and start the design process...and do what I did and forget about designing then machining all that..one-offs are hard to do at home..unless you're priming a pipeline of mass produced injection molded parts [in which case you'd do well to think that through real good then hire me as consultant to be sure...]
  Use photocell or other type of improved [reliability at least] sweep control.
  That said...I have two 'regular old wah's that [after re-tweeks] work great !

   
 

Speaking of moving out of the dark ages, I've been wanting to try out these resistive strips, but the logic behind them might get a little complicated:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=23_143

Quote from: John Lyons on May 07, 2008, 11:42:46 PM
One of the main problems with wahs is that the pots do wear out. get scratchy etc.
Slide pots in general are pretty whimpy and fail sooner than rotary pots, especially the cheaper ones.
The "good" pots are heavier duty claristat, allen and bradley and more curently speaking specially made wah pots, some with different tapers IE "Icar". Most of the old "good" pots were sealed military grade 2 watt pots.

FOr a volume pot you would want an audio taper pot and for some specialty circuits like the neovibe or tremolo you want a reverse taper, all not available in slide pots (for the most part, inexpensively that is)

I'd stick with the rotary pot mechanism.

John

Very good points John... I think I'll continue on the road I was on before... we'll see where we end up.

Quote from: petemoore on May 08, 2008, 10:52:39 AM
  To me, modern wah designs with rack & pinion were designed by Jerry the mouse in the dark ages...lack cool features, aren't DIY friendly, and look comparitely expensive to mass produce. 
  Scrap the R/P/Gear/Dshaft pot, and start the design process...and do what I did and forget about designing then machining all that..one-offs are hard to do at home..unless you're priming a pipeline of mass produced injection molded parts [in which case you'd do well to think that through real good then hire me as consultant to be sure...]
  Use photocell or other type of improved [reliability at least] sweep control.
  That said...I have two 'regular old wah's that [after re-tweeks] work great !
 

I agree that the rack and pinion system that is implemented on most wah's it very outdated and needs to be done away with. I am kinda headed down that road. However, for our purposes, I think it will be hard to get away from certian aspects of it based on what is currently available to work with, namely the many different types of pot tapers needed and the fact that what we do have available to us can be driven by a pinion or gear of some type.

I have been digging on some website looking for off-the-shelf components that can be utilized in a manner that can offer flexibility, range of motion, a smooth feel, protection from mechanically damaging the pot and design that is also quite affordabe and not too terribly time consuming to construct (I hope anyway.....)

If it works out it will be ultra flexible!

I will keep everyone posted on progress!!!!

Thanks all and please keep suggestions coming.... this is a long way from being put into stone!

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 07, 2008, 07:45:48 PM

Quote from: puretube on May 07, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
This thread reminds me of one of the saddest days in my life...  :icon_sad: :icon_cry:

I'm not sure I want to ask... but this post has my curiosity going thru the roof doode.... I hope it's not a really really sad day in a bad way type story....

It was a strictly On Topic sad story about Wah-casings...

BTW: good for 5 million revolutions! (http://www.vishay.com/docs/57059/357.pdf)  :icon_eek:

Quote from: puretube on May 08, 2008, 04:08:22 PM
BTW: good for 5 million revolutions! (http://www.vishay.com/docs/57059/357.pdf)  :icon_eek:

only goes up to 50k

No problem for a capacitance-multiplier like me...   :icon_razz:

Quote from: petemoore on May 08, 2008, 10:52:39 AM
  To me, modern wah designs with rack & pinion were designed by Jerry the mouse in the dark ages...lack cool features, aren't DIY friendly, and look comparitely expensive to mass produce. 
  Scrap the R/P/Gear/Dshaft pot, and start the design process...and do what I did and forget about designing then machining all that..one-offs are hard to do at home..unless you're priming a pipeline of mass produced injection molded parts [in which case you'd do well to think that through real good then hire me as consultant to be sure...]
  Use photocell or other type of improved [reliability at least] sweep control.
  That said...I have two 'regular old wah's that [after re-tweeks] work great !
 

I agree that the rack and pinion system that is implemented on most wah's it very outdated and needs to be done away with. I am kinda headed down that road. However, for our purposes, I think it will be hard to get away from certian aspects of it based on what is currently available to work with, namely the many different types of pot tapers needed and the fact that what we do have available to us can be driven by a pinion or gear of some type.

I have been digging on some website looking for off-the-shelf components that can be utilized in a manner that can offer flexibility, range of motion, a smooth feel, protection from mechanically damaging the pot and design that is also quite affordabe and not too terribly time consuming to construct (I hope anyway.....)

If it works out it will be ultra flexible!

I will keep everyone posted on progress!!!!

Thanks all and please keep suggestions coming.... this is a long way from being put into stone!

Mick

Don't use a potentiometer. Go Zvex way!  :)
A wahprobe is the future. The probe translates foot movement to resistance, right?
So, to mimic a %^&*ed wah sound we have only to program a PIC to sense when one's foot is stopped anywere
the sensing area for a couple of seconds and lock that resistance reading.

Better explained:
If the foot is moving, the PIC would not lock on a resistance.
If foot stops somewhere for 2 seconds the PIC locks that resistance (and shines a cool blue LED :D )
Then the PIC would wait 2 more seconds for you to remove the foot and continue sensing.

The problem is, I don't know anything about PICs! Eheheh   :D
Can this be done?

Pedro

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 07, 2008, 02:21:17 PM

Also, a request for assistance. Does anyone with a Dunlop rack and pinion  and also possibly have a Gear Pitch Gage. I need to be able to confirm the pitch on the rack and pinion. Based on some preliminary calculations I have arrived at a pitch of 32, but I am not 100% for sure.

If no one has a Gear Pitch Gage to try, then at least a count of the number of teeth on the pinion. I found a pic online and counted 14, but it was not a really clear picture so I am not sure I got the actual number correct.

Also, perhaps more important... can someone measure the amount of travel the pot goes thru for a standard Dunlop system. Abraham at Dunlop thought the pot went thru about 180 degrees of travel, but that was a guess.. can anyone confirm? Also, what is the max possible travel. The Alpha pots have a 300 degree turn radius, is that similar to what the current wah pots use... I would imagine it is, but I am also not sure since I do not have any wah pots handy.

My thinking now is that if the standard wah pots have the same 300 degrees possible, then I want to see if I can get 250 - 260 degrees out of my enclosure.... we will see.. depends on the pitch and what parts can be gotten off the shelf...

I do not have a pitch gage but the pinion does have 14 teeth in my dunlop pedal.  The actual travel on mine is only about 95 to 100 degrees and the pot has a normal 300 degree possible travel. 

Also, thanks for the tip about wrapping my spool with sandpaper, it works great!
Here are some pics for you.

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04546.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04554.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04556.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04558.jpg)

Jason

One other idea that struck me.

Why not use a air-core variable capacitor. Can be home-made to fit any space or shape.
One would use the wahprobe/mxr envelope filter technologie to create an oscilator controled by the variable
cap and use its output to set a resistance value.
Heck, we can even use the 2 halves of the shell to make a giant variable cap.
Infinite shaping posibilities, no wear, simple (+/-), affordable.

Pedro

Quote from: jasonsmusicgear on May 08, 2008, 08:03:16 PM

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 07, 2008, 02:21:17 PM

Also, a request for assistance. Does anyone with a Dunlop rack and pinion  and also possibly have a Gear Pitch Gage. I need to be able to confirm the pitch on the rack and pinion. Based on some preliminary calculations I have arrived at a pitch of 32, but I am not 100% for sure.

If no one has a Gear Pitch Gage to try, then at least a count of the number of teeth on the pinion. I found a pic online and counted 14, but it was not a really clear picture so I am not sure I got the actual number correct.

Also, perhaps more important... can someone measure the amount of travel the pot goes thru for a standard Dunlop system. Abraham at Dunlop thought the pot went thru about 180 degrees of travel, but that was a guess.. can anyone confirm? Also, what is the max possible travel. The Alpha pots have a 300 degree turn radius, is that similar to what the current wah pots use... I would imagine it is, but I am also not sure since I do not have any wah pots handy.

My thinking now is that if the standard wah pots have the same 300 degrees possible, then I want to see if I can get 250 - 260 degrees out of my enclosure.... we will see.. depends on the pitch and what parts can be gotten off the shelf...

I do not have a pitch gage but the pinion does have 14 teeth in my dunlop pedal.  The actual travel on mine is only about 95 to 100 degrees and the pot has a normal 300 degree possible travel. 

Also, thanks for the tip about wrapping my spool with sandpaper, it works great!
Here are some pics for you.

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04546.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04554.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04556.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jasonsmusicgear/DSC04558.jpg)

Jason

Does anyone know where to get that little white thing that pushes on the gear?

I know but i will have to fink the link again.  ;)

all this talk about wah pots, PICs, Probes, etc forgets one thing...

Mic isn't making a wah...he's only making an enclosure that could be used to make a wah....or a fuzz...or tremolo...or phaser...etc, etc, etc....

It makes for great discussion and idea sharing, but is beyond the realm of what Mic is looking to do. The only reason (I assume) he is asking about pots is so that he can get the angles and the attachments correct so that a pot can be used to control whatever the shell is chosen for.

IMO this type of discussion would be better in a separate thread...it will make it easier to find / search for in the future.

Thanks so much

Quote from: kurtlives on May 08, 2008, 08:16:58 PM
Does anyone know where to get that little white thing that pushes on the gear?

http://www.banzaieffects.com/Wah-Parts-c-335.html

ah Germany

Sorry to go off topic but anyone in NA have one?

Quote from: kurtlives on May 08, 2008, 08:34:30 PM
ah Germany

Sorry to go off topic but anyone in NA have one?

ok so it was smallbear that has it. part number  2614 good luck

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 08, 2008, 08:22:14 PM
all this talk about wah pots, PICs, Probes, etc forgets one thing...

Mic isn't making a wah...he's only making an enclosure that could be used to make a wah....or a fuzz...or tremolo...or phaser...etc, etc, etc....

It makes for great discussion and idea sharing, but is beyond the realm of what Mic is looking to do. The only reason (I assume) he is asking about pots is so that he can get the angles and the attachments correct so that a pot can be used to control whatever the shell is chosen for.

IMO this type of discussion would be better in a separate thread...it will make it easier to find / search for in the future.

Mick is actually working on redoing the mechanism as well. Last I spoke with him at least.
I beleive he was thinking of making a pully type system for one or 2, 3 pots.
I'll let him explain what he's working on.
Personally I'd like to see a classic (rack and pinion) wah mechanism with mick's twist on enclosure curves and top facing pot panel.
But we'll see what he comes up with.

John

Hi All,

Thanks for all the posts. I appreciate them all.

Currently, I am open to all the possible options that people may want to include. I'm not necessarily going to do them, but rather try to come up with a design that you can tweak with common tools to do whatever it is you please with it.

I am currently investigating a radically different way of doing the whole pot system so that it can be tweaked to the hilt. I like the possibility of these other idea's but I would imagine that most of us will end up using pots because there are so many to choose from, our circuits already include them and they are readily available.

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 08, 2008, 08:22:14 PM
Mic isn't making a wah...he's only making an enclosure that could be used to make a wah....or a fuzz...or tremolo...or phaser...etc, etc, etc....

or a rocker type mechanism that could be used to cross fade between two amps... two different distortion boxes.. two different loops, two different almost anythings..... or a 2, 3 or 4 channel volume pedal similar to the Morley, but with any pot value or taper you could get the pinion onto....

I am sure I am only thinking of the tip of the iceberg here....

Also Jason, Thanks a ton for the pictures, I really appreciate it! I am also glad the sandpaper tip helped!

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

Mick

FWIW, the DOD FX-17 has the smoothest action of any of the wah or volume pedals I have tried - no pots being rotated by a rack & pinion gear, nor a slider pot. Ernie Ball comes in 2nd, CryBaby wahs come in 3rd and the Maestro Boomerang has the roughest feel of them all.

Quote from: Paul Marossy on May 09, 2008, 01:57:02 PM
FWIW, the DOD FX-17 has the smoothest action of any of the wah or volume pedals I have tried - no pots being rotated by a rack & pinion gear, nor a slider pot. Ernie Ball comes in 2nd, CryBaby wahs come in 3rd and the Maestro Boomerang has the roughest feel of them all.

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the heads up on this.. I will take a look at the DOD and see what kind of technology they use....

Mick

Check Paul's site:

http://www.diyguitarist.com/DIYStompboxes/FX-17.htm

Completely different method than any other treadle pedal I've seen. Looks very cool!

Well...then you might want to look into "Hall Effect Sensors" ! ;)

IS that what the DOD basically is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

I once thought that the DOD FX-17 used a hall effect sensor, but I remember a few forum members here telling that's not what it uses to do its thing.

I still don't quite understand how it really works, but I think the easiest way to explain it is that "the 4007 shown on the left side of the schematic is a HF-oscillator based "proximity control", together with the MPS4124 and the other half of the LM358 dual opamp which provides a "distance to voltage converter", that feeds a VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier) and a VCF (Voltage Controlled Filter). The LM3080 is the VCA and the 13600 creates two voltage controlled low pass filters which are connected in series. This comprises a state variable bandpass filter and is responsible for the wah portion of the circuit." (quoted from my webpage on it)

The volume pedal side is basically doing the same thing as Anderton's "Volume Pedal Descratcher" circuit - it uses an OTA (Operational Transconductance Amplifier) to vary the volume.

Hi All,

Many Thanks for all the posts.

Quick update... I think I have settled on the style of mechanisim to move the wah pots. It's a simple moving rack type system that if I can do it correctly, will allow for incredible flexibility in the travel and number of pots. It should be scalable as well, so that you can get a simpler ssetup with less cash outlay and if you want the max, it will cost a little more.

I finally found some good small pulleys. Hard to believe it took 3-4 days of looking for small form factor plleys that were affordable enough to design in this casing and still try to make a price point that we could all deal with.

I decided to go this route rather than the DOD type route as I am not setup machine-wise to do that sort of work. I like the concept, but just can't produce it right now.

I will try to order the parts tomorrow for the prototype and we will see how it goes.

Again, Many Thanks to this community for all your suggestions. I hope I get get a good, dependable, flexible and affordable enclosure that will serve a great many needs!

Mick

Looking forward to your prototype.

+1!

john

Hi All,

I need some help!

I am getting some additional details down from this casing and I came across an issue that I had not thought of before. John Lyons was so kind as to send me his CryBaby casing to get some ideas and measurements from. Thanks John, I appreciate it more than you can ever know!

While getting down to brass tacks, I realized that the threaded part of the shaft size on the hotpotz is larger than what is on my 16mm and 24mm Alpha pots, even though the actual pot shaft is still 1/4 inch.

To that end, I would like to know which version to shoot for? May not be a big deal either way, but if I create a bracket that will just, and I mean just barely clear a hotpotz shaft it will just, and I mean just barely fit a standard 24mm or 16mm Alpha. I am concerned that under heavy use, the Alpha style pots may have a tendency to work loose.... We can probably get around it with washers or some such but it is a concern regardless. I'd hate to get a bunch of enclosures out there and have them not be good over the long haul.

Along this line, does anyone also know if the Dunlop pinion that Steve sells at SmallBear will work well on the Alpha D Shaft pots or are hotpotz the only way to go?

Many Thanks in advance!

Mick

EDIT... After thought before I head off to sleep.... If not using hotpotz, what will you be using. For example, what about using my casing as an expression pedal for the ADA or the UniVibe? Or a swell or volume pedal.... I kinda assumed that we would be able to use the Alpha D Shafts, but according to Mouser, they are 6mm shaft sized, which is about .013 too small according to my calipers anyway... just something else to throw into the mix....

I think it definitely needs to be big enough to fit a HotPotz.  But it would also be really nice to be able to use the alpha pots just because they are much cheaper and I have a lot on hand.  I think using washers will be ok for those who want to use alpha pots. 

Jason

Maybe there's a way to make a removable plate inside that would allow for a pot with a smaller threaded portion? Or maybe an either/or type of plate? Just a thought...

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 15, 2008, 12:55:48 AM
While getting down to brass tacks, I realized that the threaded part of the shaft size on the hotpotz is larger than what is on my 16mm and 24mm Alpha pots, even though the actual pot shaft is still 1/4 inch.

You could also think about making a tapered slot for the pot, the standard wah pot would slot a little over half way with a
narrower slot going down a bit further for the alpha pots. This wouldn't really matter in the rack/pinion movement as it is still in line.

Also, the actual reason I wanted to reply was because I've got an old foxx wah shell (the ones foxx used on the foot phaser and such.)
What I Really like about these shells is the fact that they have a raised area behind the toe, just wide enough to fit a footswitch.
(or if you like some extra knobs...) They also have a brass pinion wheel which is fixed with a grub-screw, making it possible to to use
absolutely any pot you might have!

In it's self two awesome features that would be interesting to see in "not just another cry baby" shell.

Cheers

PS: found a pic showing the model:
(http://www.musictoyz.com/img20065/foxx.jpg)

QuoteI've got an old foxx wah shell (the ones foxx used on the foot phaser and such.)
What I Really like about these shells is the fact that they have a raised area behind the toe, just wide enough to fit a footswitch.

The Maestro Boomerangs were the first pedal to use that enclosure that those Foxx pedals used later. It was originally patented by DeArmond in 1958. They're very bulky, but you could put a BIG circuitboard in them.

Mick
I'd go with the 3/8 bushing size on the hotpotz and most other wah and full size pots.
A smaller pot most likely won't hold up to the wah torture test. Plus, the elements inside alpha type pots wear out quicker that than actual wah pots which are more rugged and rated for more power...thicker conductive trace inside etc etc.
You gotta figure it gets a lot more rotation back and fourth, and by foot...at a faster rate.

john

Thanks guys for the posts. Any, I like the tapered slot idea.. something to experiment with.

John, I also see your points.

I am moving closer to building the prototype but work this week has been a bear and next week may be worse... It's one of those times where work is really biting into my hobbies... I hate when that happens... :-)

I am also ordering some rack on Monday for some additional experimentation. Will keep you posted.

Thank's All!

Mick

Hi All,

I was able to start transferring ideas that are on paper into some actual metal!

Here is a picture of the outside and the paddle:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22656&g2_serialNumber=2)

Here is a pic that gives an idea of what it will be like once I get the paddle mounted:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22658&g2_serialNumber=2)

Here is a gut shot... and yes, it will easily hold an ADA board... as evidenced here with my half populated one:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22660&g2_serialNumber=2)

Couple of things to bear in mind:

Right now, for prototyping reasons, there is no bottom and the top is removable. The finished enclosures will of course have a full bottom and the top will be welded and brazed in for strength.

I am also working on the paddle attachment and then, once it is attached, then I will need to do all the work necessary to get the rack attached and pot and switch placement.

If all goes well, I'd like to have a working prototype by the end of the Memorial Day Weekend!

Thanks all for your patience and as always, I am eager to hear your comments on progress so far!

Thanks,

Mick

looking very good!

Wow that's looking pretty sexy already!

It does look big though... how does it compare to an Ernie Ball?
(I personally like their "junior" sized ones the best)
On the other hand, it does open up a lot of possibilities in creating
analog multi effects (can easily fit 4 pcb's... ;D )
They all have excellent travel though and it looks like this one
will definitely allow for a nicer travel then a "cry baby" tape case!

Great work Mic!

Hey Auke and Any,

Thanks for the comments.

As far as size, the chassis is 4.5 x 10 x 2 inches high. There is a slope that starts about 3" from the toe and drops from 2 inches to a little over 1 inch at the toe.

I am not sure of the dimensions of the Ernie Ball stuff.

Right now, the way it is looking, I should be able to get almost all of the pot travel out of it, even allowing for popping on and off a footswitch. Seems like it will only take about 1 to almost 2 teeth max of travel to allow for the switch, which should not be more than 20 to 35 degrees of rotation... I'm guessing at the math right now but I should be pretty close.

When I am finished, you should be able to get more than 1 PCB in there... depending on size, maybe several.

I now have the paddle mounted and the footswitch mounted. I'll get a couple of pics up here shortly.

Next step is to get the pot and track mounted. Also, if I do this right, I should be able to get 2 pots in there, with 2 tracks.... not sure yet, but I am working on it.... more to come....

Thanks,

Mick

EDIT.. Here's some pics:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22665&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22667&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22669&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22671&g2_serialNumber=1)

Looking GREAT so far !

May I say the treadle mount/pivot looks very minimal compared to the overall sturdyness of the pedal...
I can understand that using ball bearings will dramatically increase cost, but the pivot is the most
wear sensitive part of the case and is not easily replacable..
Are you sure it's up to the abuse?

Just trying to contribute some engineering criticism here, it might well hold up for ages to come...  :)

Quote from: any on May 25, 2008, 05:26:33 PM
May I say the treadle mount/pivot looks very minimal compared to the overall sturdyness of the pedal...
I can understand that using ball bearings will dramatically increase cost, but the pivot is the most
wear sensitive part of the case and is not easily replacable..
Are you sure it's up to the abuse?

Just trying to contribute some engineering criticism here, it might well hold up for ages to come...  :)

Hey Any,

No criticism at all... it's an extremely valid point.

Only answer I have right now is that I have used stainless steel fasteners for the pivot area and I have stood on top of it with all my weight (170 lbs or so) and there have been no issues.

Also I have used phillips head screws for the ones on the sides because it was what I had on hand and I have used no lock washers yet either... still making sure it will all work out. Once I have all of the specifics worked out, I will be getting the most appropriate hardware.

I am not opposed to maybe using roll pins either but since I knew I would be taking this one apart a bunch, I went with what would be easiest to take apart.

One thing I think I will change is which part I tap in the future. For this one, I tapped the paddle instead of the yoke. Next time around, I am going to do the opposite. With that arrangement, I should be able to use a socket head screw that will allow me to get it really tight and since only a very small portion of the bolt will actually stick into the paddle (about 1/8 of an inch) it should not bend, even under heavy use.

Pictures to come in a little while of the finished design!

Thanks,

Mick

Hi All,

Some pics of the finished enclosure... minus the bottom of course... and I still have 2 more design elements to incorporate.. will do that tomorrow....

Also, in case youmight be wondering... this enclosure setup gets ALL the pot travel. I still have yet to add the tension clutch... will pop that on tomorrow as well!

Also, as you can tell, there is plenty of room on the left side to add another gear and pot setup, no problems.... this thing has plenty of ways to tweak it, no doubt about it.

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22677&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22679&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22681&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22683&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22685&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22673&g2_serialNumber=1)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22675&g2_serialNumber=1)

Thanks all for your advice and comments and also your patience!

Mick

Yo

  Coming in late to this thread. The enclosure looks great! My concern though which was brought up by "Any" is the really small pivot point attachment of the treadle and the body of the wah. As a guy who has basically made my living onstage for the last 15 years I gotta say all it would take is one drunk dude ( me included ) stepping either sideways on the treadle or kicking sideways to break it beyond repair. It looks like there's plenty of room to have a really beefy treadle pivot on the outer sides of the treadle.

--Brad

The pivot points around the treadle are made from a single piece of 1/4 6061 aircraft grade aluminium. It is fashioned as a saddle of sorts for the treadle to sit on. Which way do you think it would need to be beefed up? The points that stick up to hold the treadle? I can make those a little deeper without any issues. The way they are set now was just a starting point.... had to start somewhere... :-)

Matter of fact, when I do the next one I was gonna tap the pivot point rather than tapping the treadle itself. Making the pivot point wider by an 1/8 or so would let me use a longer cap head screw and would also provide some additional mass.

I'll see if I can make some adjustments tomorrow while I am working on a few other things as well.

Thanks again Brad and "Any" for your comments! These are the kinds of comments that will make this the best Wah Casing possible!

Mick

Mick: great work!

Trick:
if the "rack" is mounted in the middle of the paddle,
a pot-mount-bracket could be installed on either side of it:
with that option, "logarithmic" pots can be installed as working "negative logaritmic"
or just the "electrical rotation" direction can be reversed;
see pic II. (L/R) :

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/lectronix/wahpedalzsml.jpg)

in pic III. (Fw/Bw),
the same could be achieved, when the mounting of the "rack" were constructed such,
that it can be installed in a 180° rotated position
in order to reverse the pot`s rotation direction...

(1= pot; 2= mounting bracket; 3= pinion; 4= rack)

[EDIT]:

EU:

pinions (http://www1.conrad.de/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flNlc3Npb249UDkwV0dBVEU6Q19BR0FURTE0OjAwMDMuMDEyMS43NzIyZjVhYSZ+aHR0cF9jb250ZW50X2NoYXJzZXQ9aXNvLTg4NTktMSZ+U3RhdGU9MjY5Mjg1OTQw====?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&mfhelp=&p_selected_area=%24ROOT&p_selected_area_fh=&perform_special_action=&glb_user_js=Y&shop=B2C&vgl_artikel_in_index=&product_show_id=&p_page_to_display=DirektSearch&~cookies=1&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=&s_haupt_kategorie=&p_searchstring=zahnrad&p_searchstring_artnr=&p_search_category=alle&r3_matn=&insert_kz=&gvlon=&area_s_url=&brand=&amount=&new_item_quantity=&area_url=&direkt_aufriss_area=&p_countdown=&p_80=&p_80_category=&p_80_article=&p_next_template_after_login=&mindestbestellwert=&login=&password=&bpemail=&bpid=&url=&show_wk=&use_search=3&p_back_template=&template=&kat_save=&updatestr=&vgl_artikel_in_vgl=&titel=&darsteller=&regisseur=&anbieter=&genre=&fsk=&jahr=&jahr2=&dvd_error=X&dvd_empty_error=X&dvd_year_error=&call_dvd=&kna_news=&p_status_scenario=&documentselector=&aktiv=&p_load_area=$ROOT&p_artikelbilder_mode=&p_sortopt=&page=&p_catalog_max_results=20)
rack (http://www1.conrad.de/fas6/fh.php?fh_params=fh_search%3Dzahnstange%26fh_secondid%3Db2c237396%26fh_lister_pos%3D0%26fh_location%3D%252f%252fb2cconrad_de_b2c%252fde_DE%252f%2524s%253dzahnstange%26fh_eds%3D%25c3%259f%26fh_refview%3Dsearch&fh_host=http://www1.conrad.de&fh_session=/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flN0YXRlPTI4MDEzOTc3NTA=?&fh_pic_url=//images.conrad.de&layout=b2c&fsm_host=&fsm_insertkz=)

Hey Puretube,

You have hit the nail on the head... Me thinks you have been reading my mind! These are just some the possible options that I designed in from the beginning!

Also possible... 2 racks... one on either side! So the possibility of up to 4 pots is very much a possibility! Why would you want 4 pots.... my thinking is that if you had 4 different dirt boxes, you could for example, modify the "drive" output to a jack and then send it to one of the pots in the "Expression Pedal" and then you could control the drive element to 4 different dirt boxes... heck, that's just one possible option.. there are tons more because every rig is different! Cross fades... Left-Right.... Multiple channel volume pedal....

When I was in the design and layout phase, the possibility of multiple pots was at the front of the line in options that I wanted to make sure that I incorporated. At the time I was not necessarily thinking of left and right, but more of "Fade in and Out" between two effects or amps. Mechanically, it's pretty much the same.

I still have a couple of other features to debut a little later today... stay tuned!

Thanks All,

Mick

Great ideas PT and Mick.

multiple post could do some really cool things... control distortion/fuzz levels simultaneously with the wah sweep, control the depth of a tremolo at the same time as the rate, etc, etc.....

I agree on the mounting... over-engineering is NEVER a bad thing.

@Brad - is this giving you any ideas for some of the things we've been talking about ? :D

Mick:
I`m not new to Wah-Design... (http://www.pure-tube-technology.com/Flywah-Logo01.jpg)  :icon_wink:

Since I had some minor problems in the late `60s in creating a mechanically proper working pedal
(which YOU obviously are able to solve tremendously well... ),
I had to invent the "Envelope-FolloWah" in 1971... ( = "TubeTron", nowadays aka: "E-H TUBE ZIPPER").


Got back to building a mechanical TUBE-WAH ^(TM) in the `90s... (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/lectronix/pix/NuernNach1auss.jpg),
when I found the need for those mentioned options... (http://www.pure-tube-technology.de/NEWEST/T-Wah%20DSC00024.jpg)


DO IT, Mick: DO IT!
:icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:




[EDIT]:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=21247
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=43272

PT Doode... you ROCK!

I knew you had done some work with wah's when I was looking around a little, but I've never seen some of them pics... I really like the ones with the double racks... very much the direction I am heading!

One thing is clear, I am going to have to spend a little (or a lot) more time on your site!

Also, I have finished the bottom design and with it, one of my two remaining design elements... here are some pics:

Wonder why that bottom is in 2 pieces?

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22710&g2_serialNumber=1)

Well, it is certainly not because I was running low on metal..........

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22712&g2_serialNumber=1)

Yep, you guessed it... I slipped a battery compartment in yonder! (I was thinking about ya AC... this was on my list all along as well...  ;D ;D
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22714&g2_serialNumber=1)

Now, you can easily fasten any circuit board you wish to the bottom plate and not have to worry about changing the battery.

This whole battery compartment idea started as a request by Paul Nelson for a custom run I am doing for him.  (That is, If he likes the prototype I sent... :-)

I took his idea went a bit further and modified it to where it is now... still not perfect, but it will be for anything production...

I hope you like it!

PT, I will read up on your site a little more but for now, it's time to head to a Memorial Day picnic... 

Also, to all who have served in the Military, in any country, I Salute You and I appreciate your service!

Thanks again all,

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 26, 2008, 03:50:24 PM
PT Doode... you ROCK!

I knew you had done some work with wah's when I was looking around a little, but I've never seen some of them pics... I really like the ones with the double racks... very much the direction I am heading!

One thing is clear, I am going to have to spend a little (or a lot) more time on your site!

Also, I have finished the bottom design and with it, one of my two remaining design elements... here are some pics:

Wonder why that bottom is in 2 pieces?

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22710&g2_serialNumber=1)

Well, it is certainly not because I was running low on metal..........

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22712&g2_serialNumber=1)

Yep, you guessed it... I slipped a battery compartment in yonder! (I was thinking about ya AC... this was on my list all along as well...  ;D ;D
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22714&g2_serialNumber=1)

Now, you can easily fasten any circuit board you wish to the bottom plate and not have to worry about changing the battery.

This whole battery compartment idea started as a request by Paul Nelson for a custom run I am doing for him.  (That is, If he likes the prototype I sent... :-)

I took his idea went a bit further and modified it to where it is now... still not perfect, but it will be for anything production...

I hope you like it!

:)

DEFINITELY a welcome feature !]

Quote

Also, to all who have served in the Military, in any country, I Salute You and I appreciate your service!

Thanks again all,

Mick

Amen !

Always remember that the people who fight for us don't necessarily agree with the "politics" of war. Please don't confuse "politics" with "service".

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 26, 2008, 03:50:24 PM
PT Doode... you ROCK!

I knew you had done some work with wah's when I was looking around a little, but I've never seen some of them pics... I really like the ones with the double racks... very much the direction I am heading!

One thing is clear, I am going to have to spend a little (or a lot) more time on your site!

Also, I have finished the bottom design and with it, one of my two remaining design elements... here are some pics:

Wonder why that bottom is in 2 pieces?


Well, it is certainly not because I was running low on metal..........



Yep, you guessed it... I slipped a battery compartment in yonder! (I was thinking about ya AC... this was on my list all along as well...  ;D ;D
[

Now, you can easily fasten any circuit board you wish to the bottom plate and not have to worry about changing the battery.

This whole battery compartment idea started as a request by Paul Nelson for a custom run I am doing for him.  (That is, If he likes the prototype I sent... :-)

I took his idea went a bit further and modified it to where it is now... still not perfect, but it will be for anything production...

I hope you like it!

PT, I will read up on your site a little more but for now, it's time to head to a Memorial Day picnic... 

Also, to all who have served in the Military, in any country, I Salute You and I appreciate your service!

Thanks again all,

Mick

Looking good Mick!

This is coming together awesomely!!!

I know you probably have more prototyping to do and whatnot, Mick. And I also can't be arsed to look through the entire thread. Has there been any mention of a price yet?

Looks great man!!

Hey Guy's,

Thanks for the comments!

Alex, as for price, I am not quite to that point yet. I will be soon though. One thing I am pretty sure of is that there will be a base price for an enclosure that is setup like a traditional wah (with the exception of the grip tape or rubber on the face of the treadle.)

Then, I'll ala carte the parts necessary to customize it, namely the extra rack if necessary, extra mounting brackets, hard stops (probably won't get into rubber bumpers too much) and grip tape if you so desire. I figure a large percentage of folk's here will want to customize this enclosure thier own way and may already have parts lying around that could be used. If not, a few extra dollars get's you the wah casing of your dreams.

Steve at SmallBear will have pots and pinions and his service is, as we all know, top notch!

Thanks,

Mick

Sounds great, Mick.

Can't wait to get my hands on one when they're ready.

Your proto looks very nice, mick. Nice work.

Sign me up!

--Brad

You're a genius! Looking forward to the day it becomes available!

Magnus Nordbye

Hi All,

Many Thanks for the very kind comments!

OK, Here is probably the last round of pics, as I think I am pretty much done with the overall prototyping stage.... well... strike that... I have redesigned the pivot area and beefed it up quite a bit, but I do not have that done to the prototype... I'll have to do that soon and get some pics of that up.....

In any event, except as noted before, this prototype is pretty much finished.

Recent additions include:

Hard Stops up front to limit the toe down. Not totally necessary for anything that has a footswitch, but certainly needed if a switch is not there or a less than heavy duty one is used.
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22770&g2_serialNumber=1)

Also added in rear hard stops:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22776&g2_serialNumber=1)

Due to the fact that the tolerances are so tight in regard to the pot rotation, I felt that hard stops offered more protection from over-torque than rubber stops... also a little more predictable and adjustable.

I also added in one other main piece... a Plexiglas layer, topped by a layer of .080... I really wish I had some high intensity LEDS to light this puppy up for a photo! I have 2 holes in the bottom paddle and the Plexiglas to pop LEDS into.. one roughly in the middle of the toe area and another roughly in the middle of the heel area.. use 2 different color LEDS and I would imagine you would have a nice fade between them.... super cool!

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22778&g2_serialNumber=1)

I also added on a layer of grip tape:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22772&g2_serialNumber=1)

And last but not least, I added in the tension clutch:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22780&g2_serialNumber=1)

here is another pic of the toe area from the other side:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22774&g2_serialNumber=1)

Due to the size of this post, I'm gonna do another one to discuss the last facet of this process....

Thanks,

Mick

wow this is starting to look awesome.  i think id maybe have to snag a couple

Looks killer!

If you need someone to test one of these sign me up.

Mick
Looking good! The thicker treadle looks good to me, helps flesh out the balance of the thick bottom and thin top...asthetic details  :icon_wink:

Is the rack a standard issue cry baby type or did I just get confused by previous posts? Looks longer but maybe not.
If so I guess the throw was made longer by the box/treadle angle and mechanics of the redesigned enclosure right?

The LED light up treadle is pretty cool but a little "disco" for my tastes...hmmm...Maybe just depends on the LED color and intensity...might be cool now that I think more about it.

You could probably stack and inside mount two nuts for rack tension mounting bolt. JB weld them to the bottom of the case simulating a deep threaded lug inside a typical wah shell. It hides that nut poking up through the shell...more details...

The stops at the toe would be fine to set with a switch, adding a felt pad to the treadle bottom to get rid of the clack.
A single stop at the back should be fine. I'd probably just leave off the stops so people can customize it to their specific use.

The nut and bolt pair for the pot bracket could be welded on as well (obviously you have thought of this) but hey, it's a prototype and you'll experiment with more than one pot at a time with this case etc etc.

Battery door thing looks great!! A grommet and a knot in the battery wires inside of the case should help keep the battery snap wires from getting yanked loose. Classy!

I've said it before but I really dig your followthrough with this project (and all the others). There are so many people who talk about stuff but never follow through. Kudos!

John

Hi All,

Time to talk pricing.

Before I can even get to the pricing stage, I need to know just how much I need to do with these before I ship them.

There are more options for this enclosure than you can shake a stick at and I would imagine that we all have the tools and ability to do any customization necessary. Basically, this is a blank canvas and we all have paint....  ;D ;D

However, there are some things that I would consider to be a minimum.

For example, full enclosure with bottom and all that jazz... no issue there. Also, the paddle and pivot point and the mounting of that paddle to the enclosure I would think to be a minimum. I would also have to include in the base price the clips for mounting the first rack and pot as well as the first rack. I would also include into the base price the hardware for mounting the brackets and rack.

But I am not sure that I should mount those brackets because there are some many different ways to put it in there depending on what you want to accomplish with the enclosure.

Also, since this opens up the opprotunity to use any pot you can get a pinion onto, a standard mounting place for the pot bracket is going to be difficult as well.

By the way, the rack and pinion has a diametral pitch of 32 and a 14.5 degree pressure angle. You can likely go to any hobby shop or hobby website and purchase 32 pitch pinion gears that can probably be modified to fit onto pot shafts.. I'm guessing here, but I went to a hobby shop to confirm my pitch calculations with a real world part and it was a cinch to ask for a 32 pitch gear. If they have a 32 pitch pinion with a .25 bore and a set screw you would be in high cotton.

I am also aware that there may be those that just want to get one setup like I have my prototype done. With that in mind, I would be glad to finish it out for a few extra dollars.

Also, things like the hard stops and grip tape would be offered as add ons. I went to a local hardware store to pick up 6-32 and 8-32 hardware for the prototype hardware and nothing is hard to come by. I even had some of it already, like I would imagine some here already have as well.

The Plexiglas and it's associated top plate would be an add on.

So to summarize:

For a base unit, you would get the enclosure and mounted paddle and all the hardware (except pot, pinion and clutch) to make up a standard wah. I would also provide templates or directions and dimensions for where to best mount the rack to the paddle. (In general, it can be mounted anywhere along a line across the toe, be it to the left, right or middle, or one, two or even three of them across the toe.)

Add ons would include:

Grip Tape
Hard Stops
Extra Rack
Extra Mounting brackets
Plexiglas Kit
Installation and setup charge if you wish to receive a fully assembled wah

I apologize for getting long winded, but I want to get a product out there that is flexible, easy to modify, sturdy and cost competitive.

Please let me know your thoughts and comments!

Thanks again all for your patience and kind comments and suggestions! I really appreciate it!

Mick

Hey John,

Thanks for the comments!

The rack is the same pitch as the crybaby rack and pinion but I buy it in 1 foot lengths and cut and drill and modify it to fit the bracket. (see above post as well for more info about the rack)

My rack is only a little over a 1/4 inch or so longer than the crybaby one, but it is all teeth... For what it's worth, it takes 14 teeth of rack at 32 pitch to turn a pot 300 degrees. The crybaby rack has 14 teeth and if you use them all, you will turn the pot 300 degrees. But the way the crybaby rack is made with only 14 teeth and also the way the pot bracket and rack mounting is done, you only engage maybe 9 or 10 teeth... haven't actually measured that, but just taking a guess....

So, long story short, the angles are engineered to provide 14 teeth of pot travel.

I agree with the grommet and knot idea, but would leave that to the individual to sort out. Might offer a grommet for that as an add on.... something to think about. Same goes with felt pads.

Good idea for using nuts as a tension clutch. Only issue I have would be that if they ever popped loose, you'd have a devil of a time getting that dried JB weld outta there to reattach them.

Also, I agree that using a single stop would suffice as far as stopping power is concerned, but I like having two to keep from having any twisting action on the treadle.

Pretty interesting comment about follow-thru.... I got into this DIY stuff to build circuits for myself and some friends.. even thought about selling a few in music stores or on ebay. But I can't seem to get that far because I really enjoy building the enclosures. I will eventually follow-thru with that other stuff... I keep telling myself that....

Thanks again for all your comments.

Oh, BTW, I already have a tester in mind...  ;D ;D I will be asking John Lyons to perform that duty because he so graciously offered at his own expense to send me his wah casing to use as a guide or to get specs from. I cannot Thank him enough and having him to do some testing is only a small token of appreciation!

PM coming your way John...  ;D ;D Actually, an email....

Mick

I've said it before...but this thing looks AMAZING!

I hope you can get us a nice price, because I feel I need to get at least two of these! (with the plexi-glass!!!)

Keep it up!

As for pricing, i think the most important things to contain should be everything that has to be there to make it a wah. Like a basic kit or something.

Magnus Nordbye

I haven't followed this thread for a while... but real progress has been made! Looking good.  :icon_razz:

Hi All,

A basic kit to build a wah with this enclosure will be priced at $43.50. (This does not include the pot, pinion or tension clutch)

I know that is a little more than the kit Steve sells, but it is a whole lot more enclosure if you factor in what can be accomplished with this thing.

It can cost as much as $20 to $25 in aluminium per enclosure, so I cut the price to the bone to be competitive.

It will take at the very least 2 hours to build each one and most likely closer to 3, not to mention the time to pack them up and ship them out.

Because of the size and weight, shipping will be at least $10 to the lower 48, but I will know for sure when I send John the tester unit.

Also, pricing for the other things will be along the lines of:

Grip Tape = $4.00 (includes enough to do a single paddle)
Extra Rack Kit = $5.00 (includes Rack, Mounting bracket and associated hardware.)
Hard Stop Kit = $2.00 (Includes 4 nut and bolt sets for toe and heel stops)
Plexiglas Kit = $17.50 (Price includes Plexi and top sheet, but also includes complete assembly)
Final Assembly = $12.00 and up, based on what you want (send me your parts and I'll send you a finished enclosure setup anyway you please)

Included will also be full Final Assembly instructions so that you can know what will be needed to customize this enclosure as you desire.

It is my hope that you guys will find this pricing reasonable.

Let me know your thoughts!

Mick

Sounds good to me for a virtually limitless customizable wah casing.. I'll be in on it. :icon_cool:

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 29, 2008, 04:48:47 PM
Hi All,

A basic kit to build a wah with this enclosure will be priced at $43.50. (This does not include the pot, pinion or tension clutch)

In my honest opinion, I think that's rather on the cheap side for the amount of resources/time spent...
(not that I want you to factor more in, but this is quality stuff!)

O Gosh thoes look so freaking good Mick

Add me to the waiting list for one of thses if there is not one already.

The price is fair for sure. A custom enclosure optimised to your liking with a few add ons and instructions...where you gonna get that deal anywhere else?

The bare bones kit is probably going to be the best thing in my mind. Cool that you offer add ones for sure though.
Most people will be able to set these up as they need.

One thing you can do Mick is ship these in the USPS priority mail Flat Rate boxes (the boxes are free).
The price just went up but I think it's $9 roughly in the us anywhere, no weight limit.

Thanks again mick!

^ The price is definitely right!!!

Can't wait to get my hands on one.  :icon_biggrin:

Great work, Mick!!!

Amazing work, I've been following the thread all along, I really like what you've done! And, I am still astonished just 2 and a half to 3 hours to build one? It would take me a few days, if I could even do it.

Hi All,

Thanks for the comments. I'm glad that the price is not putting anyone off. One of my objectives was to keep the price in line with what else is available.

John you are correct concerning the Flat Rate boxes.... Here is a the blurb from the USPS:

"Can be used for Domestic Priority Mail ($9.80) and International Priority Mail ($23.95 to Canada and Mexico- $38.95 to all other countries, 20 lb weight limit applies)"

So, there is a 20 pound limit but the pricing is in line...  I can easily get 2 in a box, possibly even 3 and they weigh in at 2.5 pounds each, so keeping it under 20 is not an issue.

My initial build run will be 10.

First things first though, I need to get John one with a full set of instructions and make sure that everything is well put together. Once that is done, we'll get them knocked out as soon as possible.

I don't think I want to start a waiting list. Last time I did that, I spent forever going Thur posts to make sure I had it all covered. What I will do though is post a quick note in the main forum stating that they will be in the For Sale forum shortly so that everyone can keep an eye out. (That is if Aron is OK with that)

Thanks again for all your kind comments. I took it to band practice tonight and they were loving it.... Everyone said, when am I getting one? Kinda gets back to that follow though thing... It'll happen when the time is right....

Thanks,

Mick

Put me on the list for two Mick!
(including the plexi kit)
(assuming reasonable shipping to the Netherlands, any clue on shipping costs to Europe?)

Mick -
  Quite honestly I think you're pricing this too cheap. $50 is a nice round number, accounts for your time, materials, etc, and is still extremely competitive....but I'll gladly pay $43 :)
   Please put me on the list to buy "at least" one when they become available.
Andy

I will take two when they are available.

  The right shoe.

this is pretty historic stuff happenin right here. i like it!

Hi All,

Auke, shipping 2 to the Netherlands will be $38.95 according to the USPS website.

As far as pricing, I cut it quite a bit. I have made some assumptions I hope I don't regret about my efficiencies as a builder. We'll see how that goes. One thing to note though is that if the price of aluminum goes up any, my pricing will have to reflect that. There isn't much room for error at this price point.

Also, As far as it taking 2-3 hours... that is only actual build time. That did not include setting up or switching equipment. That is a factor, but not so much so when you build in multiples. Again, some assumptions were made.. I hope I do not regret them or miss the mark too much.

Thanks all for your comments! Much Appreciated!

Mick

Quote from: petemoore on May 30, 2008, 09:34:11 AM
  The right shoe.

Hey Pete,

What ya thinking here, having the paddle on either side, or even in the middle.

That is easy enough to arrange and I can actually ship without attaching the paddle in the event that someone wants to experiment with placement of the treadle system.

Thanks,

Mick

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 30, 2008, 11:08:37 AM
Hi All,

Auke, shipping 2 to the Netherlands will be $38.95 according to the USPS website.

As far as pricing, I cut it quite a bit. I have made some assumptions I hope I don't regret about my efficiencies as a builder. We'll see how that goes. One thing to note though is that if the price of aluminum goes up any, my pricing will have to reflect that. There isn't much room for error at this price point.

Also, As far as it taking 2-3 hours... that is only actual build time. That did not include setting up or switching equipment. That is a factor, but not so much so when you build in multiples. Again, some assumptions were made.. I hope I do not regret them or miss the mark too much.

Thanks all for your comments! Much Appreciated!

Mick

Mick - I, for one, won't be offended if you decide that a price raise is necessary. I greatly appreciate your efforts in making this as affordable as possible.

What ya thinking here, having the paddle on either side, or even in the middle.
  There's a way to do it, I'm just not set up to prototype it..I find the 'old clunky' electro-mechanical wahs to work just fine really, why discover a new type of 'non-wheel' that 'rolls' and work all that up to a nice, usable product when I have enough 'wheels' to roll me along the way nicely for a long long time with just a little maintenance here and there?
  ...Sometimes I like to just mention a concept and let someone else 'invent' it, reap the rewards for mass producing it or something...perhaps one day a suggestion like this will initiate a new business partnership where I make sure everything is figured out 'right' !!1 [lol].
  As much as I want to reveal about my 'mental discoveries' is there...take and run with it or leave it there..cryptic and untested as it is.
  That said...anyone else interested in a 'right shoe wah'?
  BTW...Joe, do you use the right or left foot to work the wah treadle ?

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on May 30, 2008, 11:08:37 AM
Auke, shipping 2 to the Netherlands will be $38.95 according to the USPS website.

Thanks for looking that up! Mucho reasonable to me.

Any updates Mick?

hey pete, missed the question.
i use either foot.

Yo

  I'll take 2 as well!

--Brad

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 30, 2008, 06:41:09 AM
Mick -
  Quite honestly I think you're pricing this too cheap.

Not even minimum wage (in the UK).  I applaud your efforts, Mick, but don't sell yourself short.  I appreciate that there's a fun element in doing all this, but if you get regular orders (that will cut into you time), you may regret such a low price - you might as well flip burgers for all the cash it will bring in.

If the product is truly unique, which it appears to be (looks great by the way), then people should be made aware of this and it should be reflected in the price.

Have you started to ship these beauties yet, Mic? I'll be happy to buy one if so.

Magnus Nordbye

Quote from: gez on July 09, 2008, 04:13:47 AM
Not even minimum wage (in the UK).  I applaud your efforts, Mick, but don't sell yourself short.  I appreciate that there's a fun element in doing all this, but if you get regular orders (that will cut into you time), you may regret such a low price - you might as well flip burgers for all the cash it will bring in.

If the product is truly unique, which it appears to be (looks great by the way), then people should be made aware of this and it should be reflected in the price.

Thanks Gerry! I really appreciate the sentiment and it is a true testament to the quality of people that visit this great site. After factoring in all the variables, I think I am still at a fair price, given that when you recieve a wah enclosure "kit" you will still have to put some effort into it yourself. If I were to have to finish them all out, then yes, they are way too cheap.

Also, an update:

I have not had too much time to devote to building for the last month or so because of the day job... was Primary On Call for a week, then Secondary On Call for a week, then had two weekends where I needed to go to Weddings... which just kinda ruins a day as far as building is concerned... especially seeing as how both weddings were out of town.

All that being said though, I am in the process of finishing a run of Large Recessed enclosures and when done with those, I will start the Wah enclosure run.

I am also having to build some tooling and jigs to help with certian aspects of the wah build, so that will take a little effort... I also have to do all the documentation for the instruction sheet that will accompany these enclosures.... I am still also sourcing the best hardware... stuff that will hold up (stainless where possible) and will not back off or come loose... meaning lock washers or that nylon type... not sure which yet....

Many Thanks to all for your patience and I hope to have some if these for shipping as soon as I possibly can.

Mick

I just spent almost an hour reading this thread (somehow I missed it all these weeks!!).  I want at least one!!  And the plexiglass kit thingy!!  And maybe more!!!!!!  This thing is amazing!!!!!!!!!  THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Joe Hart

Excuses excuses! Come on Mick, faster... faster.... :icon_lol:

john

Hey Joe,

Thanks for reading up on this... I hope to be able to start shipping some of thes things as soon as possible!

Thanks,

Mick

Quote from: John Lyons on July 09, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
Excuses excuses! Come on Mick, faster... faster.... :icon_lol:

john

Yes Master.... I go now to build......  ;D ;D ;D

Thanks John!

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on July 09, 2008, 11:03:02 AMAfter factoring in all the variables, I think I am still at a fair price, given that when you recieve a wah enclosure "kit" you will still have to put some effort into it yourself. If I were to have to finish them all out, then yes, they are way too cheap.

Yes it's very fair...to everyone except yourself, Mick. 

From your previous post:

"It can cost as much as $20 to $25 in aluminium per enclosure, so I cut the price to the bone to be competitive.

It will take at the very least 2 hours to build each one and most likely closer to 3, not to mention the time to pack them up and ship them out."

At  $43.50 a shot, you're going to make $18.50 - $23.50 (assuming the tax man is kept in the dark about this). That's between $6.16 and $7.83 per hour (assuming "closer to 3" hours + time spent packing them).  From a "I'm in this to have fun" point of view, fine go for it.  From a business point of view it makes no sense whatsoever, unless you push the price up/outsource to keep prices low (not really an option on such a small scale).  If people aren't willing to pay more, then walk away. 

I hope the above doesn't come across as negative, just trying to shake some sense into you!  :icon_smile:

Hey Gerry,

No negativity at all! I really appreciate your insights and the fact that you are interested in my bottom line really shows how great a guy you are!

Your numbers are spot on for the most part.. with a couple of small caveats.... 

Because I build when I have time, and build in small lots, I tend to pay more for material... If I were to get real serious, I'd buy material in bulk, saving that extra cost there.... I would also be tooled up a bit better and would be able to leverage economies of scale to get the amount of time down to 1.5 to 2 hours at most. With that working for me, I would be able to get costwise into the $12-$15 range for materials and say 2 hours for time... That would put me at almost $15 max an hour for my time.... not real good and nowhere near the day job, but for a side hobby, not too bad either...

As far as the tax man... I keep him well informed.... since I put all the monies brought into this hobby right back into it, well, there is no profit to speak of... just a self-sustaining hobby... which is exactly what I have set out to do for the time being. How many times in life do you get to start up a hobby, and have it pay for itself in the first year... I have sold enough enclosures (and hope to keep on selling) to pay for all of the tools required to build them and supplies as well. Matter of fact, the Wah enclosure funds will go into reserve to pay for a large out building to build in.. I have outgrown my basement... too many tools.. :-)

The real beauty here too is that as I build and sell enclosures, I can fund foray's into building full pedals for sale at a much higher markup.... the true end goal as it were... I already have a wah commissioned to build for a friend who was a session guitarist for Warner Brothers for 20 years.... that can't hurt any...

To kinda mis-quote R.G. "Another Idiot Blooms"... or was that, "Another Flower Blooms"..... or was that a "Blooming Idiot" hehe, probably all three in the case of this builder...  ;D

So you are very correct that in the business point of view, it makes no sense in many ways. However, if you take a look at it over the long term, I am able to, in small steps, create a nice foundation for a business that will have all it's tools and supplies paid for and also have a reputation to capitalize on and all the while, bring innovative and solid products to a market for a fair price.

BTW, in a totally unrelated comment... I am surprised so few have shown any interest in the hold down clips for the Hammond boxes... I thought for sure I would have at least sold a few of them... just goes to show how much I know...  ;D

Maybe everyone is waiting for the Wah enclosures.... I guess I better get busy then... :-)

Thanks,

Mick

Mick, I wish you well!  :icon_wink:

Quote from: gez on July 09, 2008, 12:56:08 PM

Quote from: MicFarlow77 on July 09, 2008, 11:03:02 AMAfter factoring in all the variables, I think I am still at a fair price, given that when you recieve a wah enclosure "kit" you will still have to put some effort into it yourself. If I were to have to finish them all out, then yes, they are way too cheap.

Yes it's very fair...to everyone except yourself, Mick. 

Maybe he's a believer in Karma.  From what I've been reading here, I think the universe owes you BIG TIME!!

Again, thanks!  I CANNOT wait!  If I'm understanding correctly (and I think I am), I can get the plexiglass treadle to light up when the effect is on.  I'll be the belle of the ball with that puppy!

Just let me know when I can send you money (and all the Karma good vibes)!!
-Joe Hart

mic77, sounds like you have your head screwed on correctly here.

i respect what you are doing with this, i predict you will do fine with this venture, even if the price creeps up as you get into it.

i don't think anyone can slag you for charging at least 25 an hour for what you do....

My head screwed on right... well, that's a first!  :D :D :D

In all honesty, if I were to be doing this to make money to support my family, it would be a lot different.

Also, I am most humbled by the fact that there is a community here, if I were to need to increase prices, would be there to support me.

One of these day's, I'm gonna surprise yaw with a fully finished pedal.... I ordered parts last week.. :-)

Thanks,

Mick

It's a really nice thing you're doing for this community. To not only provide a product for so cheap but to also alter the design based on our needs is fantastic.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the paddle shape, but the plexi is a great idea. I love the idea of room for pots on the side. Is there any way to have the side area recessed? Like, if the paddle is all the way forwards it would be flat with the tops of knobs. Would be a little more welding, but I think it would eliminate the possibility of breaking pots of knobs.

Can't wait to see how these things turn out! It'll be interesting to see what people build in these and how they finish them. Good work!

congrats Mick it looks like the baby of one of the old chrome morly pedals and an ernie ball jr  :D

Quote from: Joe Hart on July 09, 2008, 05:04:42 PM
Maybe he's a believer in Karma.  From what I've been reading here, I think the universe owes you BIG TIME!!

Well, No one owes me anything, but great folks buying my enclosures, that is a reward that is rather hard to quantify!

Quote from: hday on July 09, 2008, 05:44:42 PM
I love the idea of room for pots on the side. Is there any way to have the side area recessed? Like, if the paddle is all the way forwards it would be flat with the tops of knobs. Would be a little more welding, but I think it would eliminate the possibility of breaking pots of knobs.

There really isn't a way for me to recess the sides like I do the back of my other enclosures... at least not with the equipment I currently own. Currently, with the way it is setup, with the paddle, the plexi and the top .080 plate, the face of the paddle sits at 7/8 of an inch above the top of the enclosure. I'm not sure, but I don't think many knobs go much over 3/4 tall.... that's just a guess though.

Quote from: snufkin on July 09, 2008, 06:09:38 PM
congrats Mick it looks like the baby of one of the old chrome morly pedals and an ernie ball jr  :D

It does doesn't it... I wasn't aiming for that, but it does indeed!

Thanks,

Mick

hey Mick,
anything new happening on the wah front?
Great idea, maybe we'll soon be able to build our own custom wahs instead of gutting old dunlop or vox wahs!

~Andy

No new news?  Or did I miss it!  I still want to buy one!!!
-Joe Hart

As far as I know Mick has been slammed with "real" work.
He's going to send me a prototype to test and then time willing make the units for sale.
Correct me if I'm wrong Mick.

John

Hey Yaw,

No John, you are not wrong at all!

The day job has been brutal recently. My work hours for that last good while were based in the Pacific time zone, but now, I have become the lead for what I do globally so I have responsibilites on 6 continents...  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Maybe worse is that I busted the drive belt on my belt sander.... bought another (though not from the manufacturer) and it busted in 2 minutes.... got another on order from the manufacturer.... this one should not bust...

When I get that piece of equipment running again, I will have to hurry and finish a couple of orders for fellow forum members and then it is on to the wah's....

I will keep everyone posted on progress!

While the sander has been down though, I did manage to finish a Dr. Boogey that has been in the works for some time..... will try to post pics and a sound clip and build report next week... need to get the knobs in for it first.... I ordered the wrong ones.

Thanks,

Mick

Used Russian shell casing?

Quote from: StephenGiles on August 10, 2008, 09:45:19 AM
Used Russian shell casing?

Thanks a lot..... as if I weren't busy enough.... now I got to do some research and see what kind of shell casings might make interesting knobs and what would be the best way to actually get them to fit.....  ;D ;D ;D

(looks like the Yakovlev Yak 9D had a 12.7 mm machine gun and a 20MM cannon..... two very nice sizes to work with.......)

Now to find some WWII Yak Shell Casings... that is going to be a tall order.....

Wow, this looks great! I will ahve to grab one once you begin another run, that's for sure.

How much physical sweep is on these babies? I saw some estimated preliminary numbers, but nothing concrete?

sending you a pm mick...