Finished my take on the PEPPER SHREDDER using my layout here (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Schematics-etc/PEPPER+SHREDDER.jpg.html)
I made this using the original schem (http://www.tube-town.net/diy/lov/lov02-peppershredder.jpg) and Jimmy-H PCB (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1038/6111peppershredderlayoutc2.gif) as guides.
It works, altough I forgot to add C10 (220uF electrolytic) between 12v and ground. (I'll update the layout soon)
(C10 is added in the PCB but it's not in the original schem)
Put it in, and added a 7812 at the DC jack.
I am using a couple of 12AU7 and not the 12U7 per the schem. I read that you can use both in that same site (Tube-Town)
I got a really good overdrive, but a countinuous hiss is coming as soon as I put the wall wart into the DC jack...
both before and after that C10 insertion.
Any hiss hint??
Well done Adriano - this is on my to do list. How does it compare with the Valvy? Did yuo build it without tone control? Lets see some photos!
Well Rick, it has more gain compared to our trusty Valvecasters, nice and thick sound!!! I built the standard toneless version, you know I'm not so fond about tone controls...Pics you say...well, it's just the vero board with a mess of wires...
I'd like to have it boxed, but first I am gonna solve that f***ing hiss problem...
I'm getting mad at it...
Maybe if you box it up the hiss will go away (?).
mmm, I doubt it...
Quote from: Renegadrian on July 23, 2008, 11:54:37 AM
Finished my take on the PEPPER SHREDDER using my layout here (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Schematics-etc/PEPPER+SHREDDER.jpg.html)
I made this using the original schem (http://www.tube-town.net/diy/lov/lov02-peppershredder.jpg) and Jimmy-H PCB (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1038/6111peppershredderlayoutc2.gif) as guides.
It works, altough I forgot to add C10 (220uF electrolytic) between 12v and ground. (I'll update the layout soon)
(C10 is added in the PCB but it's not in the original schem)
Put it in, and added a 7812 at the DC jack.
I am using a couple of 12AU7 and not the 12U7 per the schem. I read that you can use both in that same site (Tube-Town)
I got a really good overdrive, but a countinuous hiss is coming as soon as I put the wall wart into the DC jack...
both before and after that C10 insertion.
Any hiss hint??
Hi Renegardian,
Sorry for the late reaction!
But I have been away for a vacation.
That's also the reason I didn't reply on Rick's Personal mail).
I don't know if you have solved your problem.
But it's all in the power supply.
Maybe you have to filter your power supply.
There have been reports on the tube-town site having problems with hiss and hum.
Always having to do with a bad power supply.
I used an old switching power supply of a printer.
That works very well!!
It's not a problem of the 12AU7-tube (or there has to be a bad one).
There is another dutch build using 12AU7 tubes, and it works all fine (but he also uses a switching power supply).
Jimmy, thx for your reply - even diyers need vacation, right? Hope you had a nice time...
anyway, I have to cannibalize an old printer, should I find there the solution of my PS (pepper shredder and power supply) trouble?
I'll try that one...
One last thing...I'LL KILL YOU IF YOU MISPELL AGAIN MY NICKNAME!!! :icon_evil: <---JOKIN' :icon_lol:
It's RENEGADRIAN - I have it inked on my arm too...
Here's mine:
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/moto_0353.jpg)
Quote from: frequencycentral on August 06, 2008, 06:20:21 PM
Here's mine:
Wooow, that's real small Rick!
Now I'm really curious how it will sound with the tiny tubes!
Quote from: Renegadrian on August 03, 2008, 01:31:04 PM
Jimmy, thx for your reply - even diyers need vacation, right? Hope you had a nice time...
anyway, I have to cannibalize an old printer, should I find there the solution of my PS (pepper shredder and power supply) trouble?
I'll try that one...
One last thing...I'LL KILL YOU IF YOU MISPELL AGAIN MY NICKNAME!!! :icon_evil: <---JOKIN' :icon_lol:
It's RENEGADRIAN - I have it inked on my arm too...
Sorry Renagardian uuhh......Rranagadrien....uhhh now I'm all mixed up! (just kiddin! :icon_biggrin:)
Quote from: Jimmy-H on August 07, 2008, 02:38:40 AM
Quote from: frequencycentral on August 06, 2008, 06:20:21 PM
Here's mine:
Wooow, that's real small Rick!
Now I'm really curious how it will sound with the tiny tubes!
Yeah, tiny huh? I've been breadboarding some ideas using these 6111 submini tubes. 'Bipolar Disorder' was one of them, the others are still in development (vibrato and phaser - not so easy!)
When I did the 'Bipolar Disorder' I breadboarded it first using a 6111, then built it using a 12AU7 - there really was no difference between them.
Finished:
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/moto_0364.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/moto_0363.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/moto_0365.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/moto_0369.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/pSpS.jpg)
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :icon_eek:
That's damn beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!! Rick, you're the man... :icon_wink:
Any luck with the hiss renegadrian? Frequencycentral - any comments on the tone of this circuit?
I just love those tiny valves, nice build, and so small. :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: frequencycentral on August 12, 2008, 03:09:46 PM
Finished:
[
Nice job Rick!! ;)
And how does it sound with those tubes.
And it really looks like a Doctor Analogue pedal again!
The hiss still stays - I believe I'll be trying something again next month, it's in the closet right now...
Thank you for your kind comments. My first impression is that it's a much more 'refined' pedal than the Valvecaster. I would guess it's better engineered, the gain being built up stage by stage, rather than the Valvecaster's sledgehammer approach. Also, the Valvecaster's second triode cathode is connected directly to earth, which I don't think is good practice having poured over dozens on tube circuits recently - the 'right' was seems to be:
- a 1K resistor in series with a cap (say 10uf)
or
- an LED (or diode) with the LED's cathode connected to ground and it's anode connected to the triode cathode.
I really only just finished it, tested it and posted the pictures, the tone is good! First thing I noticed was that I usually have my Valvecaster volume at about 10 o'clock - hardly anything, on the Pepper Shredder unity is round about 2 o'clock. Tomorrow I have band practice, so I will be testing and comparing it more fully with the Valvecaster and the other distortions I use - DIY MXR D+ and Boss (original) Blues Driver.
I have no hiss or hum issues; I put a 10uf cap across the power rails. The only other change I made was for the 6111 heaters, they require 6.3 volts. I'm running on 12 volts, so I just put the two tube heaters in series.
Hi,
what kind of tonestack did you use?
(JD)^S
Looking forward to a more complete report.
Quote from: Drake120 on August 12, 2008, 07:52:01 PM
Hi,
what kind of tonestack did you use?
(JD)^S
The tone stack is really simple. I just used the Vavlecaster's cap/pot approach.
Thanks ;)
Update!
I thought I'd report on the Pepper Shredder, having had time to evaluate it.
Firstly - the tone control I added was just a very simple arrangement similar to the Valvecaster, except I used a 50K LIN pot and a 0.01uf cap. Just enough to be able to dial in a range of tones without sacrificing too much volume.
The Pepper Shredder is much brighter than the Valvecaster (which has been described as 'dark sounding'), so I think it's worth adding that tone control.
At lower gains the PS works well as a clean boost - not as much boost as the VC though.
With the VC if you turn the gain up full, you have to turn the volume to about 9 o'clock to achieve unity. with the PS gain up full, unity is about 1 o'clock.
Overall, the PS performs much more like a 'major manufacturer' pedal than the VC - the controls just seem more logical to adjust.
Don't get me wrong though - I still love the Valvecaster!
Nice report, pal!!! :icon_wink:
Does the use of tubes in this design yield a noticeable result? What I mean to say is, is the effect significantly different from a solidstate distortion of similar territory?
Thanks,
Joey
Quote from: comfortably_numb on August 16, 2008, 08:51:32 PM
Does the use of tubes in this design yield a noticeable result? What I mean to say is, is the effect significantly different from a solidstate distortion of similar territory?
Thanks,
Joey
Thats an interesting question.
Firstly, some people prefer solid state amps, some prefer tube amps. Which sounds best is is highly subjective, and may also depend on context - this argument has been going on since SS amps were first introduced.
I guess the same would go for effects pedals too. There are thousands of possible tones - just one pedal isnt ever going to nail them all.
So, the following comments are
just my opinions - its not the law!
I prefer tube amps (and vintage analogue synths/electric pianos - I'm a keyboard player too). I like the warmth, the way they break up, and the subtle enhancement of tone. I like the soft compression which results when you hit them hard. I have two tube amps, a vintage Roland Bolt 60 (which I believe is a Mesa rip off) and a VJ clone. What I just don't get is this - the other guitarist in my band has a 100 watt Crate tube half stack and a 50 watt 70's Marshall tube half stack, whichever one he uses, he keep the volume down to about 1, uses the clean channel only, and uses a Pod XT Live for his distortion/effects. Go figure.
So, for me, the same goes for pedals. If I can do it with tubes then thats the way to go. Having a Valvecaster or a Pepper Shredder in your rig is like having a really good tube footswitch operated preamp built into you amp. I've also built a tube tremolo, which I prefer to my SS tremolos - very touch sensitive - when you hit it hard it crunches. I'm working on tube vibrato and phasing too - for the same reasons: why use SS when you can do it with tubes? I'm even working on tube VCFs and VCAs for my modular synth.
Next: tone sucking. When you use an op amp, you're actually using dozens of transistor, an op amp isnt just one component, its lots. I personally think the less active circuitry between the guitar and the speaker the better. Transistors can achieve a lot with less active parts than op amps, but they don't have the same response as tubes. A lot of discrete circuits are tweaked to try and achieve similar liniarity to tubes. FETs seem to be used because they are close to tubes in terms of response and liniarity. But why jump through hoops when low voltage tubes provide a viable alternative? You can achieve a hell of a lot with a dual triode or two.
Ultimately, you can build a Valvecaster or Pepper Shredder for no more than the cost of another SS pedal. I would guess my Pepper Shredder build cost less than £20 (about $40), thats everything, 3PDT, enclosure, tubes, pots. So, my advice would be just go ahead and build one - let your ears be the judge. :)
Hmm, i was thinking that my last post would elicit some controversy, obviously not!
Bump for controversy!
Quote from: frequencycentral on August 18, 2008, 08:09:35 AM
Hmm, i was thinking that my last post would elicit some controversy, obviously not!
Bump for controversy!
Yeah, but it was a hell of a plea!! ;D
But I share your point(s)
i just breadboarded this and the vanilla overdrive using 12u7s.
the pepper shredder has a LOT of drive!
could do sloppy metal no problem.
they both sound really similar, just one has more gain.
im not super into the sound but is its not a bad sound by any means.
they sound really solid state to me actually, a lot like the distortion circuit in my
vox pathfinder 10 practice amp.
id really like to find something that has the vibe of a tube echoplex being driven (sans echo).
Yes I know.....rails are so out of style......but anyways - my mini tube peppershredder:
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/pepperboard.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/pepper1.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/pepper3.jpg)
Fed a regulated 12Volts by :
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/vreg1.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/vreg3.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/vreg5.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/musical/pepper/vreg2.jpg)
I used Jimmy H's tone PCB.
Dan
What tonestack are you using?
I imagine any tonestack would suck considerable gain in this circuit.
Quote from: kurtlives on October 21, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
What tonestack are you using?
I imagine any tonestack would suck considerable gain in this circuit.
QuoteI used Jimmy H's tone PCB.
I think it's been said before - if not in this thread - another one - there's more than enough gain to deal with the tone stack.
I tried it both ways and I like it with the tonestack myself....YMMV, JMHO etc. etc.
Dan
Interesting that you used sockets for the tubes Dan, do you find they are secure? Those 6111 legs are so spindly, I'm happier soldering mine.
Dan, Sweet build!
Quote from: kurtlives on October 21, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
What tonestack are you using?
Yes I'm curious what tone stack you're using too. ;)
If possible, it would be cool to hear a sound sample.
Nice build!!!
Question - to anyone else with a Pepper shredder.......
One of my tubes glows brighter (V1 much brighter) than the other one......anyone else ?
The sound doesn't seem to be affected - just wondering.
Dan
Quote from: danielzink on October 29, 2008, 08:30:38 PM
Question - to anyone else with a Pepper shredder.......
One of my tubes glows brighter (V1 much brighter) than the other one......anyone else ?
The sound doesn't seem to be affected - just wondering.
Dan
You're running two 6111 heater in series right? Like my diagram. My tubes both glow the same. Test the voltage where the heaters meet (V1 pin 6 and V2 pin 3), it should be 6 volts.
I recently noticed when visiting Tube Town that the Pepper is onto version 2 now. The final stage is now a cathode follower instead of gain stage, followed by a three knob tonestack. The version 1 schematic seems to have disappeared. I think I saved the version 1 schematic to my hard drive though........
Yeah I got it too if someone needs it
Actually, the link to the version 1 schematic in the opening post of this thead still works. But I've put it in my Photobucket anyway:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/PepperShredder.jpg
I have to say I think I prefer version 1, it would appear to offer more gain.
On another note:
Quote from: frequencycentral on October 31, 2008, 12:47:59 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on October 31, 2009, 07:50:23 AM
^
^
Spooky!
(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/halloween/evilpumpkin.gif) Hope you don't stop posting until next halloween!!! (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/halloween/evilpumpkin.gif)
(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/halloween/halloween.gif)
It's funny - we all seem to be travelling on similar paths !
I have been working my pepper over in my mind lately and I'm going to install a toggle swith to bypass the tonestack as needed.
Dan
Quote from: danielzink on October 31, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
It's funny - we all seem to be travelling on similar paths !
I have been working my pepper over in my mind lately and I'm going to install a toggle swith to bypass the tonestack as needed.
Dan
Okay - well that was a massive failure - all I did was completely cut signal - yes....aparrently the TS-a and TS-b need to be connected......duh......
I have three toggle switches at my disposal and I need to eliminate the tonestack at will:
On/Off - two contacts
On/On - three contacts
DPDT - six contacts....
needing guidance - I'm sure it's simple.
Thanks, Dan
DPDT - imagine you'll bypassing an effect.
Quote from: frequencycentral on October 31, 2009, 12:50:32 PM
DPDT - imagine you'll bypassing an effect.
'eh ?
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/pepper/tonebypass.gif)
Lift the mid pots ground connection. SPST is all you need.
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
Lift the mid pots ground connection. SPST is all you need.
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/pepper/tonebypass1.gif)
Quote from: danielzink on October 31, 2009, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on October 31, 2009, 12:50:32 PM
DPDT - imagine you'll bypassing an effect.
'eh ?
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/pepper/tonebypass.gif)
That's what I meant.
Quote from: danielzink on October 31, 2009, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
Lift the mid pots ground connection. SPST is all you need.
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/pepper/tonebypass1.gif)
yep - this one was -FAIL-
;D
Dan
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
Lift the mid pots ground connection. SPST is all you need.
ahhhhhh........I re-read your post.....I misinterpreted what you said !
I think I've got it now !
Quote from: danielzink on October 31, 2009, 02:26:34 PM
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
Lift the mid pots ground connection. SPST is all you need.
ahhhhhh........I re-read your post.....I misinterpreted what you said !
I think I've got it now !
Just to be clear - this is the tonestack I'm using:
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/pepper/peppertone.gif)
Quote from: danielzink on October 31, 2009, 02:26:34 PM
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
Lift the mid pots ground connection. SPST is all you need.
ahhhhhh........I re-read your post.....I misinterpreted what you said !
I think I've got it now !
So - a simple on/off between the gnd connection from the pepper board to the tonestack ?
Thanks everyone !!
Dan
Yep
Break the Blue wire or the Black wire, which ever...
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 03:07:43 PM
Yep
Break the Blue wire or the Black wire, which ever...
Off to solder - Thanks !
Quote from: danielzink on October 31, 2009, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: kurtlives on October 31, 2009, 03:07:43 PM
Yep
Break the Blue wire or the Black wire, which ever...
Off to solder - Thanks !
Worked great - thanks again - oddly though - with the tone stack bypassed - turning the "treble" knob will slightly (ever so slightly) reduce the overall volume.
Just need to make sure the treble knob is at 10 whenever the tone stack is bypassed - no problem though - love it !
Dan
That's because the SPST doesn't truely bypass the tonestack. To truely bypass it you need the DPDT arrangement. ;)
Ya forgot to mention that Dan.
Rick no offense but this method is way easier and does virtually the same thing. Never seen amp that "fully" bypasses the tonestack.
Really the treble pot shouldn't affect the volume too much, provided it seems the ideal input impedance. When boost engaged it should ever so slightly affect the highs. Dan are you using a Marshall TS, those rely on cathode followers before them generally.