DIYstompboxes.com

Guess what simple classic 2 trannies I used for this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78XVvOXcecY

Sounds nice!
Do I see two different trannies in the circuit though?
Classic? hmmm as in 2n5088/89 classic, or bc108/09 maybe?

Cheers

Impressiv!

Did you use SAG?

Regards Jean-Marie

Well, it's a modified Bosstone. Not heavily, just a few mods and tunings.

Bigger caps, one Ge + a 1N4001 at the clipping stage and, yes, a SAG pot, 100K as indicated in another FREE forum about stompboxes.

Regarding trannies, I tried a lot of them. As I saw with Harmonic Percolator, it seems to be a very critical balance between the hfe trannies. In this case the NPN or PNP don't need to be veeeeeeeeeery low. Around 150, I think it's OK. On the demo vid I used a 2N3565 and a 2N4125.

I used my trusty and cheap Parker P-30 with Gold Lace Sensors. I prefer to use the pedal with singles as demosnstrated, but with some reseting it shows the same results with humbucker too. For a plain distortion/fuzz I prefer to use some Ge on NPN or a very low hfe transistor, like BSX20 or 2N2369, for the NPN side of it and not to use caps that big. Piggybacking a high hfe tranny as the 2N5089 presented a very good plain distortion/overdriving sound, but compromise the "trumpetism".

I liked the results, but I find the Paul Trombettas's Tromboner and MiniBone pedals more stable, round and clear.

My version is way rougher, but... Well, it's only rock'n roll but I like it!

My bad english strikes again, the right question is:

"Guess what simple classic 2 trannies CIRCUIT I used for this one?"

And the winner is:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z210/alex_frias/BossT-boneSchem.gif)

is this the schematic as used in the video?

Alex

sounds nice.

Fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yes, it is!

Gus,
Thanx

alex, great sample. your guitar playing suits the tone of the pedal, i like it.

Joe
thanx too

Quote from: alex frias on July 19, 2010, 10:47:28 AM
Well, it's a modified Bosstone. Not heavily, just a few mods and tunings.

Alex,

your device sounds very interesting to me, more versatile than stock bosstones.
Is the circuit verified? I have not seen any responses.

I am asking, because I wanted to draw a PCB when I noticed, that there are some substantial differences in the biasing networks of the transistors. This is confusing me, because this is beyond just a few mods.

For instance, according to the schematic you are feeding Q1 via a 560k resistor - opposed to a 18 k resistor in all the other bosstone schematics.
This seems a bit high but if you say it works... (reminds me more of the CA version schematics that are around except for the PNP output stage)
This resistor then goes to the supply rather than to the 18k other schematics have.

If you could shed a little more light on this I would be thankful,

take care,

--helmut

Helmut,

You are completely right, your observation proceed.
So I corrected the drawing and I think that's it:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z210/alex_frias/BossTboneOK.gif)

Thanks, Alex.

This looks more like "just a few mods".
You probably did what happened to me several times: you sling a circuit together and then redraw what you think you changed and lo and behold: the circuit works and the schematic is erroneous. And since you "invented" the bug, you are not likely to discover its existence until somebody else points this out.

Still your variety looks a bit like NPN-NPN CA models whose circuits are around.
You took the feed for the first transistor directly from the rail as they do in those CA models rather than from the 18k load resistor of Q2 (albeit with different values...), as all subsequent models do.

Obviously there are people who have made PCB´s from your circuit, I wonder if any of them worked with the bug in it :icon_biggrin:
So if the Q1 feed is the only change in layout you made one would probably be better advised using one of the standard bosstone PCBs that are around.

take care,

-helmut

I just wanted to say thanks for this little circuit. I put it up on the breadboard in about an hour, and it is one of the coolest fuzzes I have played. I love the raunchy sound. I used low hfe trannies, 130 and 159 I think, which worked best after trying a few others.

I definately get the trumpet sound too. I have been playing Herb Alpert all morning. Remember him?...

Fun stuff for those of use who like our circuits a little twisted! :icon_twisted:

Building report:

I made a litte PCB incorporating the different bias feed Alex uses plus the bias feed stock units have as switchable option.
Alex´ version, as expected, is a little clearer, the stock bias version sounds comparably flabby.

I tried several low gain (90-140) transistors for both positions. Low power transistors (BDxxx) seemed to work best, although the device always keeps its distinct tone no matter how much you swap.

The 47 Ohm resistor in the emitter circuit of Q1 does nothing discernible. I suspect it should be a 470 Ohm at least. One of the original CA versions has something like that.

On full Attack settings the device seemed to be  prone to motorboating (low frequent oscillation), but this may vanish if properly installed with short wires and a shielding case.

The supply starving worked, but the sound gets farty, worse on some transistor combinations. The more you starve the voltage, the more pronounced an octave below is audible. Interestingly, this works better with  the stock bias feed for Q1 than with Alex´ version.

BTW I found that with my fuzz face I can evoke the same octave below effect if I starve the voltage and remove the smoothing resistor in front.

This is not an octave effect á la octavia. The latter seems to produce uneven products that sound dissonant, whereas the octave this thing produces sounds consonant. I decided that this devices octave effect is not well enough developed to keep it for that purpose only, there are better devices for that.

I could, unfortunately, not evoke the trumpeting effect. Alex´ version sounds like a synthesizer trumpet through his box, so the effect should be really pronounced. Doc_drop, you really got this working? Which version of the schematics did you use? The first one contained an error according to Alex.

Yeah, this yoke sounds rough. Astonishing for a two-transistor device it has enough gain in it or sufficient distortion mechanisms to make for a quite saturated tone, but it tends to swamp all guitar characteristics. Pickup selection questions are a matter of the past. :icon_mrgreen:

have fun,

-helmut

Wow, what a great find is this thread! I really love the trumpeting you demonstrated in the video Alex. That alone makes me very interested in this project.
Could you elaborate a little on the settings used to get the trumpeting going, and also how 'easy' it is to keep that effect going while playing on different parts of the fretboard, picking strings harder and softer etc? It would be less useful for me if the trumpeting is difficult to achieve consistently.

Alex, or doc_drop, could you confirm the second schematic is correct and that the "47R" resistor is indeed meant as 47 Ohm?

Thanks a lot!

p.s. I know this thread is old.

indeed...this is another must have that will kill an afternoon nicely as well as produce some quirky sounds...cool ones!!

well done, mate!!



i tried to embed the video...worth watching repeatedly. ;)

worked this up, gonna build it later. love the demo, alex!!

:icon_mrgreen:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/581155_3806985706069_1307872517_n.jpg)

i know it can be smaller, but...sometimes it's nice to have a little room to breathe!!

EDIT: THIS ONE HAS MISTAKES, PLEASE LET ME UPDATE THE VERO BEFORE TRYING TO BUILD THIS. I WILL UPLOAD THE CORRECTED VERO SHORTLY, SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE IF YOU'VE ALREADY STARTED...

smaller version

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/250799_3807159270408_1324925839_n.jpg)

this would probably fit in damn near anything!! the switch is bigger.  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on June 16, 2012, 02:44:19 PM
smaller version

this would probably fit in damn near anything!! the switch is bigger.  :icon_mrgreen:

Thanks for posting those layouts, very helpful :icon_cool:

my pleasure. should have the tiny one verified by tonite. :icon_mrgreen:

The Attack and Bender pots are audio/log taper in Alex's schematic though, right? Did you change those on purpose?

didn't really notice, my bad. generally i don't care too much about the taper, i probably should. i generally use whatever i have kicking around.

sorry bro! use what alex specified for best results. ;)

Man, that trumpet sound rules! nice work, you capture the sound of a trumpet so well, sounds way better than the "trumpet" on my casio, good playing too!   

almost done building now, just gotta find the right transistors...everything's wired up except for that. i went for the tiny layout.

had to make a couple parts substitutions, but nothing crazy, everything is within a couple points of what's specified except the starve pot...running out of small 100k pots, so making that one 50k, should do the trick still.

will post to say how it turns out. ;)

here ya go. this one is right, and working, and verified...there were a couple minor, but fatal, flaws on the earlier version.

this one is up and running, and sounds great....i did find that trumpet like tone despite the mods...it's very contingent on the bender control's setting and the attack setting as well.

the values i used are in parenthesis...i used all linear pots...for transistors i tried everything, my favorite is actually the combo of 3904 and 3906 so far. played with the lower gain transistors i had, and didn't like it as much...
may be because i am running slightly different voltages  because of resistor subs...

but it's working, sounds great, look for a stupid pedal tricks episode coming soon!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/198395_3809222841996_1874720520_n.jpg)

Nice demo Jimi! Especially liked the "trumpeting" sample. Hmmm... sounds strange to say that. "There goes that guitarist 'trumpeting' again!"

that's alex frias' demo bro, not me!! i just embedded it in the thread.

he sounds great!

i built this last nite, boxed it today...tried many transistors, and settled on 3904 and 3906. sounds great.

if you turn the gain down to about 6 and a half, and brown it out with the treble pickup on, you'll find the trumpet tone. a LOT of it is in your
fingers and phrasing i think. pretty nice fuzz.

i'd reccomend up to a 1k resistor for the emitter on q1, so when you short it with the switch you get more of a boost.

nice fuzz...sweet, kinda clear...will up a demo one of these days!!

nice one jimi... :icon_cool:

heres a weird brassy fuzz i messed around with a while back...

alex frias got in touch with me about it!...kind of brassy /synthy fuzziness...

i think IIRC it was a fuzz face type circuit, but i had trims in for the collectors....no final schemo though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04vrAGfQSv8

that sounds cool rob!! as always, nice chops, too!!

sounds more like a synth than a horn...very brassy and cool. too bad ya never kept a schematic!! ;)

Sweet, can't wait to hear your demo Jimi!

I just ordered all the parts; this will be my first complete build. So far I've only been doing mods and repairs.

hey major,

i'll try and shoot a stupid pedal tricks tonite or tomorrow when my girl's at work.

it's a cool sounding pedal, to get the trumpet tones like the video in this thread, you may need to really play with the trannys.. i found i could get that sound fairly well, really dependent on phrasing tho.

attack about 6, volume where ever, and brown it out til it sputters, then juice it just a little bit.

for transistors, i went for a more everyday fuzztone, cuz i rarely really need a trumpet (if i do, i will call my sister, a world-renowned trumpet player jeanne g. pocius)

what i found worked best for ME, was to turn the warp control all the way down...then sub transistors until you find a set that gives you a half way decent fuzz tone...then when ya crank up the voltage, the pedal will bloom and sound really good.

i CAN get a touch of octave up, and octave down is a little dicey...you'll probably want a bigger warp pot than i used, at 50k, the sweet spot for the trumpet sound is pretty narrow...100 or even 250 k will probably spread it out some. it gets a pretty decent "sax" kinda sound, too...it's synthy and brassy and very cool, and makes a great fuzz for fuzz's sake, too.

again tho, some of it could come down to me using different transistors, and not having the exact resistors on hand...15k instead of 18k probably increased the gain there a little bit...680k instead of 560 probably decreased the gain a little. subbing a 560r for the 470 r probably made the gain boost more noticeable. if i build this again, i'll make that emitter a 1k for a BIG boost when the resistor's bypassed.

i hope you have fun with this, congrats on taking the plunge to build your first circuit!!

beware...it's addicting as hell. i've built about 40 some odd functional pedals now, maybe more...and have about 10 on the bench in various stages of me staring at them. ;)

rock on!

Thanks for the build report Jimi. I'm quite anxious to get my parts package delivered and start working on it. I don't have a trumpet playing sister, let alone a world renowned one, but I did start a funk band recently and wrote some original tunes full of brass parts. It would be so cool if I could make some of those parts sound good on guitar, or team up with a real brass player to do harmonies in horn section bits  :icon_cool:

Anyway, forced by my obsession-of-the-week, I have been researching Paul Trombetta's fuzz pedals. He offers his 'bone machine' with an optional switch that changes between Si and Ge transistors. So now I'm considering adding that in as well, while I'm at it...
Given my lack of experience however, it might be a stupid idea to make this build any more complex than necessary. Oh, the dilemma, the dilemma! [drama queen alert]

Well, I guess I'll first build it using the schematics in this thread, using tranny sockets so I can try different types. If, and only if, it turns out I can't decide on a winner and the contenders have very different sounds, I might add the extra switch...

Now, how about some stupid pedal trick clips??  :icon_biggrin:

soon, bro.

i didn't care for germanium in this pedal so much. too soft, and much weaker fuzz.
they sputter out about half way down on the warp control.

So, my parts just got delivered. Time for some soldering!

Being the ultranoob that I am, I would be very thankful if someone could verify my footswitch addition to Jimi's stripboard layout. In particular, does my labeling of where the switch connections should go make sense? I figured anything from the attack pot up to and including the volume pot is 'the effect' to be bypassed.

Thanks for your patience with beginners  :icon_redface:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=47610&g2_serialNumber=1)

this is how i always do it... it grounds the input of the board when in bypass to minimize noise leakage

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/switchwiring.png)

Some nice sounds you showed there!

Mine is sort of done, but there's still a fault in it somewhere. Apparently, I managed to screw up quite a few things, including getting the the 9V dc socket lugs 2 and 3 mixed up, as well as getting lugs 1 and 3 of all the pots mixed up. Although pretty epic failures, I managed to figure those faults out soon enough. Now I need to find out why mine sounds like a slightly driven low pass filter, and hardly responds to the controls.

But right now I'm tired, hungry, sleepy, and I've got a flight to catch in the morning. I'll have to check everything later.

i wouldn't call that epic failure!
;)

i ALWAYS expect them lugs to be backwards on EVERYTHING...happens all the time!!!!!

check your voltages, or try some higher gain transistors. there's a real sweet spot where the trumpet happens, and even then, most of it's in the phrasing of the player.

you'll get it my friend! no worries!

After an evening with the multimeter, checking the voltages at trannies, all the actual resistances etc, I still hadn't found it. Reheated of the solder joints, quadruple checked that there were no shorts across the copper strips, but still no improvement... Then this morning I found out I put a 0.022uF cap where there should be a 0.0022uF cap. D'oh! But also.. Woohoo!

The wrong cap value would explain why mine only affects the lowest notes, and just sort of muffles the high strings. I'm off to buy the right cap as soon as I can, so I can hopefully get those sweet tones at last.

edit: Also, Jimi, your vero layout lists C5 as 0.0068uF whereas Alex's schematic shows a 0.068uF. More importantly though, C5 should connect to the emitter of Q2, not to its base. I think this is an error in the vero layout. Could you verify that?

good catches, both.

the schematic does indeed show .068. i definitely used .0068

also, c 5 as shown should connect to the emitter, not the base as you also noted. mine as built does not, mine is as the vero shows.

will update the vero to show the corrections...gpod eye, sorry ya had the hassle. we both learned something here i think!!

here's the corrected layout..

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/BOSSTBONEVERIFIED.png)

i dunno what the hell i built, but it still sounds pretty good...lol.
another new fuzz i guess. gonna have to fix this one!!

thanks brother!! again, i apologize for the inconvenience!!!!

Haha, no worries. This is my first build and you helped a lot regardless. Glad I could contribute anything other than ignorance to the discussion  :D

Just so you know, I first built it with C5 connected to Q2's base as well, and it did indeed produce a useable fuzz. Of course, you demo'd it so you would know. But then, I was looking for those horn sounds, and I couldn't get those.

Now that I've made some corrections, including the connection of C5 to Q2's emitter, mine is starting to sound a lot more like Alex's demo  8) I get the trumpeting going in a pretty wide range of settings actually. For high notes, it works better high on the neck using the wound strings than with the thin strings on lower frets. I used a multi-purpose wall-wart to change voltages even more drastically. Going from 9V to 7.5, 6 and even 4.5 (these are its settings, haven't checked the actual output voltages...). Gives an even wider range of sounds!

I'm really liking it, the only mod/addition I'm considering now, after playing with it, is a drastic passive tone control to roll off high end. On the settings where it trumpets most easily, the overall quality of the sound gets a little harsh in combination with my usual amp's EQ settings. It's perfect when I roll off the all highs and turn up the mids on my amp though. So, I'd like to do that on the pedal output signal and be able to keep the rest of my setup the way I like it. That would promote this pedal onto my pedal board I think.

awesome bart,
glad ya got it going! i am torn between making another fuzz that's RIGHT and fixing this one.. i kinda like it like it is, but really want that trumpet thing. maybe another switch to change the position of the cap?  ??? between base and emitter. wonder if it would pop?

thank you for verifying that i'm an idiot...lol. it's all good, the important thing is you got it running, found, recognized and reported the problem, and we both learned from it...thank you!

i got a couple things on my bench at the moment, i'm gonna try adding a switch to mine on that cap...then i can have my cake, and eat it too!

hey guys, opened it up....the results are here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=98085.new#new

Glad to hear you like it with the changed cap values as well Jimi!

I'm still trying new combinations of sag and attack settings, each time thinking I was setting it up all wrong 5 minutes before and that this time I really nailed it. Like you (noted in the other thread), I found that sliding up into notes really enhances the brassy sensation.

Strangely, today, with 'fresh ears', I'm at a loss what I was thinking yesterday, blabbering about the need for high frequency roll-off. Now, I actually like it best with the lows rolled back and highs turned up on my amp  ???  Of course, I am using different settings for the pedal controls now.

Well, I guess I just need to use it for some more time before I will decide on how to mod it further, if there is any need at all. But then... perhaps I should just go ahead and add a single knob high cut (1) to high boost (10) control as described here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/swtc.htm (http://www.muzique.com/lab/swtc.htm)
A polarity protection diode might be a good idea though, didn't yet put that in.

The thing is, once you are in a bout of manic soldering, it is very hard, scary even, to think of boxing up the pedal and unplugging the soldering iron.

yep....you're addicted!!!

i played with this thing for HOURS last nite...it was a gas!!

thanks for noticing my mistakes bart...the pedal is as different now as night and day!!

I just wasn't that sleepy or hungry the past 72 hours, so I figured I might just as well tinker with the pedal a tiny bit more. It's all under control, really!

That said, although some settings sound pretty cool to my ears, I haven't yet been able to match Alex's most extreme sounds.

On a side note: with this fuzz pedal placed after a buffer, it sounds very different. Not nearly as interesting IMO.

edit: I also just found out that a change on C5 from 0.068uF to 0.090uF alters the brass character pretty dramatically - and, to my ears, for the better.

if upping the input cap from .0068 to .068 got it trumpeting good for pinkjimi maybee a 1uf or 10uf input cap would kick in the a$$ a bit more...
slam it! with a bigger input cap!

Quote from: Quackzed on June 29, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
if upping the input cap from .0068 to .068 got it trumpeting good for pinkjimi maybee a 1uf or 10uf input cap would kick in the a$$ a bit more...
slam it! with a bigger input cap!

Yeah I upped C5 a bit like Jimi did. Totally worked.  :icon_cool:  It's the cap that connects the emitter of the second transistor to the diode stage by the way, not the cap on the effect input, directly after the attack pot.

oops right! my bad. not the input cap, but c5! input cap is already .1u so making it bigger probably wouldn't do much...
... i KNOW i had some 3906's somewhere ?!?....
probably good i can't find em, i should be packing for vacation!

Hey, guys, I got a small perf layout done up.

(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/boss-t-bone.png)

It's got a few notes and reflects a few of my personal preferences. I sat down with every transistor I had on hand and plugged them into the circuit to see what got the best trumpetting. I found that having Q2 a little LOWER than Q1 enhanced the effect. I also kinda dug a germanium in Q2 ... it gates less at maximum sag ... less bladt but a little more "toot"! But I stuck with silicon because I thought it got too dark otherwise and because I definitely want the option for full spitty gated fuzz out of this particular box.

Also, per the most immediate discussion above, a .47-1uF cap on the input DOES make a difference. It will gate less (a little more input signal), and get a little woolier. I stayed "stock" on mine for the same reason as the Si transistors -- I wanted some spitty gating available.

post clips! ;)

I see a nice job has been done here, thanks guys. As a lot of time passed I didn't remember clearly wich one I used, the circuit with an error related to the original Bosstone, or the corrected one. But I think I used the second, corrected. I must verify that...

The resistor used in order to put the first transistor gain down a bit is 470 Ohms, not 47. Sorry, I even don't use it that much, as the ultra hi-gain is necessary to achieve the trumpetism!

You see, I´m very happy with that as it is, but I like those non-stable functions, I found interesting learning to deal with them variating pickups, guitar volume and tone controls and picking techniques. In order to get it to the max it is important your guitar is connected directly to the BossT-bone.

After 2 years this one still figures in my pedalboard as the first fx after the A/B box (passive one):

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z210/alex_frias/PBseta.jpg)

right on! i'll have to re-visit mine, i think i may have used 47r instead of 470.

it's a bear to get the "sweet spot"...but proper reverb and phrasing matter a lot, too.

this was a great project, thanks alex and everyone else...

hey larry, i'll check the one you sent me, maybe the issue was that resistor...if it is,  i'll replace and mail it back to you
with them 105k's you asked for that i endlessly forget...

glad to see it has a spot on your board, alex...it's a really nice sounding fuzz any way ya set it! ;)

mine self-oscillates, on some setting of the sag control...anyone else's do that? just curious...

I already had a Bosstone boxed up, with some switch lugs available for duty, so I thought I'd try out some of these mods last night.  It had an on-off slide switch for power, so I just decided to straddle the two lugs with a fixed resistor for a "sag" preset, and setting the switch to the "on" position would shunt the resistor and provide normal unstarved power. I found the full 100k created problems, so I left it at 47k.

A second 3-position slide switch provides "normal" tone, a 2nd parallel .22uf input cap, or a treble-cutting cap in parallel with the clipping diodes for a warmer rounder sound.  I tried using the addional contacts to introduce the lower Q1 gain in one of the switch positions.

Unfortunately, rather than reading through the entire thread  :icon_rolleyes:, I went with the first drawing I had, which mistakenly showed the Q1 emitter resistor as 47R, rather than 470R.  The combination of more sag and the slightly reduced Q1 gain caused problems, including howl that would not abate until I adjusted both the Attack pot and the guitar volume.  Ironically, the least howling was produced with the added input capacitance.  Don't know why that is.

doesn't having an input capacitance in series act as a filter? all caps have some resistance to them too, so i guess it either acted as a filter, rolling off above/below certain sub/harmonics...

or the series resistance made the pedal see an input current instead of a voltage? or maybe i got that backwards.

i was just reading a mod article on the archive that mentioned using an input cap in series in a fuzz face circuit (the os mutantes fuzz, remember that one?) to help reduce intermodulation
distortion artifacts when playing a diad or more..

neat!! ;)

i found too, mine definitely oscillates at some settings of the sag control, which can be kinda cool for some things...definitely makes it different...

did you find the sought after "trumpet tone", mark?

The trumpet appears to still be in its case, but with normal Q1 gain, and sag set at 47k, I did find myself getting a host of interesting and pleasing octave effects, both above and below (though not simultaneously).

I should add that, although I don't know exactly how critical Q1/Q2 hfe is, I have absolutely no idea what trannies I'm using or how they were selected.  The perfboard is pretty crowded (it's about a dozen holes square).  I'll have to bend them back and hold up a magnifier to see what's in there.

 :icon_mrgreen:

i doubt it really matters what the trannys are as much as the biasing of 'em.

it's a cool circuit, i can't get much out of it with octaves, at least not predictably enough for me.

but i do like the brassy sound you can get out of it.

gotta run...just traded a crappy ts-9 for one of them old digitech two pedal two second delays. ;)

It's some time ago I tried this,but I only got octave below

on the 6th and 5th string while trumpeting on the other ones.

Though I was so fascinated being a '2 transistors Pat Metheny' :icon_lol:

I didn't try in-between sag values.

As an aside, I was surprised to read in an interview recently that Metheny actually started out learning and playing trumpet, before switchng over to guitar.  That explains an awful lot.

Ah  ,I  didn't  know  that!

I  of course didn't get his phrasing , needs probably more than

a simple circuit , like ... hours of practice.

I've been playing around with the BossTBone on my breadboard. Tweaked it to hell and back. It turns out I need a lot bigger pot for a sag control, a 500k. Maybe because I'm using a wall wort.

Anyway, I'm getting awesome trumpet tones from a dual humbucker guitar, ok tones from my strat and poor from my homebrew dual p90 guitar.

I imagine this maybe another impedance thing, pickup loading problem. Tried a pedal with a buffer in front, and a booster in front without good results. A meg resistor to ground at the input may have helped a little.

Anyone know how to make this circuit respond better to all guitars?

Nick

i think you'll have to adjust the sag control for each kind of input.

maybe find good spots on the pot for each guitar, measure the resistance and add a "preset" resistor at the proper values on a 3pdt switch?

Jimi, Definitely, my different guitars are requiring tweaking of the voltage sag, but it goes deeper.

My Guild M-80 sounds so sweet and brassy.

The Strat is much more splatty and harsher with more limitations to what string and fret position will yield a brassy note.

So I figure the differences are:

Higher output pickups, higher Z.

Different harmonic content from humbucks.

500k pots vs 250k

I'm thinking that the single coils are getting loaded much more, so the solution might be related to that. My goal is to be able to dial in a good brassy tone without having to switch guitars.

hi nick, then how about this approach?
change the impedance of the input?

like... get a 3pdt on/on/on switch, and use different input caps/ground references in for each kind of pickup?

i bet there's a sweet spot where you can find that you could wire up where you could effectively be able to just plug whatever guitar in without dicking around with the knobs...

i don't know enough to be able to help, other than breadbox and 10,000 monkeys approach, but i bet RG could sort it out!

Hi guys!
Built my T-Bone Version a few days ago. I seems to work but one thing worries me:
When the SAG control ist to 0 i get no sound. Then i dial in some sound and first a get some gated noise and later the fuzz appears. Increasing SAG the sound clears up a little and i get octaves...
I meassured 9.2 V with no SAG and no Sound. The Sound appears at about 4.8 V.

I had to combine resistors to get to the values but i'm within 1% tolerance. I checked my board but couldn't find any errors...

Maybe i've already made an error with my shematic!? i added some DC fitlering and a "Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control". The LED has some pop-filtering.

Someone an advice!?

P.S. The 560pF Cap is 56pF
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8055/hornyhornet.png)

i think it really depends on the transistors and their gains, you may have "mellowed it out" too much with the tone control?

I bought a Buch of 3904 and 3906 and they are all quite high gain. They are about 250 hfe. (But i don't really trust my Meter. For most of them i meassured 300 and more.) The tone controll works quite  softly, when i get fuzz so i don't think This is the reason. But without a sag-controll and with 9V iwould not get a sound. Do you think This could be because of The higher Gain transistors?

temporarily lift the node at r7 and c4, and try the output from the grounded side of c4 (unground it and use as a new output.

i think it's the tone control. and as i recall, very specific ranges of caps worked to get the tone.. often caps aren't even close to what they're marked.

all the higher gain transistors would do would be make it more brassy and edgy, more distortion and louder. can ya post a clip of what you're getting?
also, post voltages etc from each transistor.

hollah back bro

I'm using some very generic transistors, so I don't think that's the problem. This circuit is pretty touchy and sensitive to pickups and tone settings.

For trumpet use between 2 pups and tone all the way down, input cap of .1-.22uf, sensitivity 100% (even your 100R might be too much), and I need at least 250k for sag. I tried the same tone control, but didn't like it , so I added a .01uf bypass cap with a pot around the vol pot.

For straight fuzz, big caps at input or out can do strange things as can lifting the diodes. I also removed C2, C3 and reduced C4 to 220pf.

Your schematic looks ok, might just be a bad sag pot.

Somebody on another forum posted a Youtube link to a recent pedal from J Rockett, and I thought "Hey, wait a sec!  I know that sound!".

Sounds like Paul Trombetta's pedals as well.

Edit:

Bump!

I've been wanting to build one of these for some time, and now I'm starting to become more proficient at circuit building I might give it a try in the near future, but just wanted to double check a few things before doing so as I'm not up to speed on my knowledge of circuits.


I'm going by this layout, which I assume works fine and is error free?

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/BOSSTBONEVERIFIED.png)



I want to get as much brassy, greasy bosstone fuzz sounds out of it, and after reading through this thread, have come to the following alternate component values that seem to get those results going by what people are saying:

R1: 560k
R3: 560k
R4: 470r
R5: 15k
R6: 15k

Q1: 2n3565
Q2: 2n4125


Not sure on the following general bits:

C5: 0.68uF, 0.09uF, 1uF, or 10uF - more texture in the fuzz the higher the value?

Q1 should perhaps have a higher Hfe than Q2?

Use a 250k or 500k instead of 100k on the Bender pot for wider range in sweet spots for brassy tones?

Is the gain toggle switch worth it? Does it change the character of the fuzz tone much, and if I was to omit it, or have it set in one position or the other, what would I need to do/rearrange on the board?

I'd just be using a 9v battery snap, so would that connect +, to Bender 3 and -, to h1 ground (and/or daisy-chained with Attack 1, Volume 1?)

Any help much appreciated.  :)

Bump

So I've tried building it, and it's not working  :icon_mad:

Have gone through a few stages of troubleshooting to no avail, and the results are always the same.

When the effect is engaged, there's not much happening. Just a slightly muffled clean tone. The volume pot is responsive, and turning the other pots has an effect on the background noise.

I made a typo above, with C5, putting 0.68uF instead of 0.068uf but I ordered the 1uf and 10uf caps too, and using them instead does nothing. I've tried all the alternate transistors too, with no results. The only thing different to the diagram is that I'm not using the gain switch, but can't see how that would create the results I'm getting.

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? I heat-sink everything so hopefully haven't fried anything, but other than a faulty component I can't think what the root of the problem is.

Hallo Snufkinoob, sorry about your troubles, you can post some pictures if you want some help debugging.
You can also build an audio probe and follow the audio trace of the effect to find out where is the problem.

If you want to start from scratch again I would suggest to don't waste components committing the effect directly on vero or perf. Get a breadboard, make the circuit work there, and then solder the same components on the vero/perf/pcb.

Are you also on tdrpi?

It's too bad so many people have fallen short of getting the sounds from jimiphoton's demo. The commercial builds sound great, I wonder how they've gotten the sound consistent from unit to unit.

Can anyone give an explanation of why this circuit sounds the way it does?

I've ended up frustrated the few times I've tried to mis-bias silicon fuzzes. Somehow this NPN-PNP config motorboats mids and I just don't understand it. It does do the Brassy 'Trumpet' thing with the Clipping Diodes Lifted, doesn't it?

Cheers all.  Came across this thread searching for a Sax sound.  Just ordered parts for the build but I'm putting into a hollowed out Wah Pedal.  The idea is to be able to maneuver some of the knobs with your foot ala Wah and have it be more of an expression pedal adding in the dist and "trumpet" effect to articulate. 

There goes my post virginity.

YL

^ cool, now lay back and have a  cigarette... ;D

welcome btw. ;)

1) YL, how was it for you?  8)
2) PJimiP, belated kudos for the Ellington/Steely Dan quote. Great choice.
3) Like the Percolator, this looks to be one of those quirky, hard to replicate, vintagey circuits that's awesome if you get it right, but can be very frustrating to figure out why it doesn't do what HIS does. Ah, well, it's too simple a build not to try.
4) Thanks Alex, Jimi, etc. for all the good work, and Jon for the perf layout that I will probably use.

I struggle to understand the magic of this circuit. To me, Q2 just looks like a PNP Buffer... except it's DC Coupled with Q1. Huh.