and it's only $65.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=243&Itemid=26
It uses one of those Belton doodads. Looks interesting!
Nice!
I see that Small Bear sells the belton btdr-1h Reverb box for $18.00
The rest of the circuit looks pretty straight forward too.
I just ordered the kit from GGG. Anyone built it, or any reverb from the beltone yet?
This is Beltone's second attempt at a reverb module. The first was pretty dreadful. They got some good advice, took it, and this one's pretty good.
What about the rumors concerning the brick-internals? (Alesis or Spin?)
I'd be very interested in hearing a build report. And even more interested in hearing clips. My thanks in advance to you guys trying it out.
I was looking at this one the other day too ...
I'm glad JD got the build files up.
Quote from: Lurco on May 15, 2009, 01:47:28 PM
What about the rumors concerning the brick-internals? (Alesis or Spin?)
According to Doug Deeper, it's just a bunch of PT2399s with a little support circuitry.
With 10K Zin and no signal loss this could be interesting to try directly in a tube amp - i.e. no transformer or recovery stage.
Has anyone tried that yet?
Jay
Quote from: Jay on May 17, 2009, 05:46:34 AM
With 10K Zin and no signal loss this could be interesting to try directly in a tube amp - i.e. no transformer or recovery stage.
Has anyone tried that yet?
Jay
Reading the spec sheet for the tank, it shows that power and signal grounds are connected inside the module.
This likely means that it will require it's own separate powersupply, as it will be not be possible to use the filament supply because of it's virtual or CT ground, or elevated heater connection. Grounding the other end of an elevated filament supply would be BAD NEWS for the tubes!!!
Quote from: head_spaz on May 17, 2009, 07:31:16 AM
This likely means that it will require it's own separate powersupply, as it will be not be possible to use the filament supply because of it's virtual or CT ground, or elevated heater connection.
True enough, but providing suitable power to it wouldn't be too difficult/expensive and cost/space requirements compared to a conventional tube/transformer/tank system are very attractive - providing it sounds any good!
Jay
Quote from: Jay on May 17, 2009, 07:58:45 AM
True enough, but providing suitable power to it wouldn't be too difficult/expensive and cost/space requirements compared to a conventional tube/transformer/tank system are very attractive - providing it sounds any good!
Jay
Yes, I agree.
But I felt it imperative to point this out, lest it be overlooked or forgotten and someone lets the magic smoke out of those expensive tubes, transformers and the like.
i said it COULD BE the pt chips, there are at least two (i couldnt get all of the cover off) 16 pin sm ics in there (there is plenty room for more!) and the other goodies look to be in the right place, but im not saying thats whats going on for sure!
gotta cover my tracks in case in wrong!
;D
Sorry Doug, didn't mean to throw you under the tracks. :icon_wink:
I heard some sound clips, and I think if it was using a DSP chip, it could have a more believable spring sound than it does.
Found this a few minutes ago. they just posted it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrKTi1emR8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrKTi1emR8)
Just ordered the kit. (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m297/biggy-boy/rockon2.gif)
Can't wait to get it.
That video is a real turnoff for me. It sounds like it's just a delay with really short delay times, not a reverb-like sound, like the new spring chicken.
FWIW, I think it's likely that the Spring Chicken uses the Belton box. Seems it sprang (NPI) into existence right when this chip appeared, and at the same time as the Mr. Springgy, which we know uses the Belton. Malekko even says something like, "we didn't invent this chip, but we made it sound good".
listen to the clips that are posted ... they're a much better use of reverb
Quote from: mth5044 on May 19, 2009, 07:37:18 PM
That video is a real turnoff for me. It sounds like it's just a delay with really short delay times, not a reverb-like sound, like the new spring chicken.
looks kinda interesting
they do make the chip in short, medium, and long reverb. that could have something to do with it. i have the kit and wonder if i can add a pot to adjust the decay(length) of the reverb?
Nuts. I thought it was going to be digital. :(
here is the schematic: http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/ReverbPedalSchematic.pdf (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/ReverbPedalSchematic.pdf)
any thoughts on where to add a pot for decay or length of reverb? you can add a tone pot also but that might be overkill.
There are only external connections for in and out as well as power.
You'll have to crack it open and figure out the rest... :icon_eek:
john
Quote from: iaresee on May 20, 2009, 12:34:07 PM
Nuts. I thought it was going to be digital. :(
I'm an idiot - it is digital, but the algorithm is fixed to emulate springs. Oh well...
Quote from: ppatchmods on May 20, 2009, 03:37:54 PM
here is the schematic: http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/ReverbPedalSchematic.pdf (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/ReverbPedalSchematic.pdf)
any thoughts on where to add a pot for decay or length of reverb? you can add a tone pot also but that might be overkill.
Decay time is a fixed property of the module. According to the data sheet here:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/BTDR-1H.pdf
You can buy it with a short, medium or long decay.
Anybody know when GGG will start selling the PCBs for this project? Sounds wicked!
they aren't going to sell the pcb's because the circuit is a shared project with another pedal maker
5v supply...
[and 9v for the other amps].
The only mystery I have is how well will the 5v module accept signal inputs, much hotter than guitar PU's.
I built it up lastnight. very fender-ish. It doesn't sound as thick but it's not tube driven eaither :icon_biggrin: It is a real nice sounding reverb but i'm no expert. It's not my old '65 gibson ga30rvt or my fender SR but somewhere in the middle.
Quote from: ppatchmods on May 22, 2009, 10:17:52 AM
I built it up lastnight. very fender-ish. It doesn't sound as thick but it's not tube driven eaither :icon_biggrin: It is a real nice sounding reverb but i'm no expert. It's not my old '65 gibson ga30rvt or my fender SR but somewhere in the middle.
Hmm.... I might have to get this one. I've been wanting to get a reverb pedal, and a DIY one would be even cooler.
Quote from: ppatchmods on May 20, 2009, 10:47:25 PM
they aren't going to sell the pcb's because the circuit is a shared project with another pedal maker
Indeed. If you look at the layout PDF at GGG, in the bottom right it says "PCB Artwork Copyright 2009 Hermida Engineering".
It's a Zen-Verb!!! :D
yeah. JD worked with the guys over at Hermida on this one. That's why they aren't selling just the pcb's...you have to buy the kit. The pcb has a surface pount part to solder on the back side so it would be hard to etch too. Hey, 65$ was worth it to me. My mazeratti need the verb!
anyone tried it yet
Quote from: Kitarist on May 22, 2009, 06:42:30 PM
anyone tried it yet
Quote from: ppatchmods on May 22, 2009, 10:17:52 AM
I built it up lastnight. very fender-ish. It doesn't sound as thick but it's not tube driven eaither :icon_biggrin: It is a real nice sounding reverb but i'm no expert. It's not my old '65 gibson ga30rvt or my fender SR but somewhere in the middle.
Initially I designed a reverb circuit based on the module for a friend. The results were very good and he ordered additional units. I then decided to make a pedal version. Eventually JD and I discussed the possibility of making a kit based on Brian Neunaber's original design (Brian is the designer of the circuit inside the reverb module itself). The main idea was to make it accesible to everyone and inexpensive.
The pcb layout was made so that people could build more or less Brian's original design and experiment with mods. I selected the 5V regulator as a surface mount to minimize space and keep a low profile. It is easy to solder. I normally tend to design very compact but because the board is soldered directly to the reverb module pins I decided to make the board a little larger than I normally do.
Brian's approach is very interesting. Most implementations using alternate chips use the built in code (which was normally meant to be just a simple demo) as the final code. Brian followed a different route. I don't know if he visits this forum but if he does he could chime in.
Anyways, those of you that get the kit have fun with it and if you have mods let JD Sleep or myself know.
Alf
Quote from: ahermida on May 22, 2009, 09:03:09 PM
...I don't know if he visits this forum but if he does he could chime in. ...
Alf
Yes... (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72376.0)
I haven't seen one of those reverb bricks before. Very interesting idea...
Hi
re: impedance
10k input impedance? Is that for the chip? The GGG schematic has 1 Mohm. Output impedance is a low 600ohms, so you could drive anything with it.
re: 5V reg and signal size.
Pete, you could put a log (volume) pot after the input buffer. Any low value (e.g. 10kA) would do the trick.
This project potentially makes some cheap reverbless amps a lot more attractive (I'm thinking Epi junior head for one).
cheers
QuoteThis project potentially makes some cheap reverbless amps a lot more attractive (I'm thinking Epi junior head for one).
cheers
I wonder if you could add it to a tube amp as well? And more importantly, if it would sound any good.
I'm a spring reverb fiend, and for me, this would be no substitute in an amp, when it would be easy to do the real thing.
Now, if you need reverb in a stompbox, this might be a great solution, but when you have an amp with all that space inside, a real spring reverb isn't hard to do at all.
Quote from: Taylor on May 25, 2009, 12:45:14 PM
I'm a spring reverb fiend, and for me, this would be no substitute in an amp, when it would be easy to do the real thing.
Now, if you need reverb in a stompbox, this might be a great solution, but when you have an amp with all that space inside, a real spring reverb isn't hard to do at all.
I've never tried to add reverb to an amp before. I have a little amp from the 60s that I think would sound real nice with reverb added to it.
I guess it also depends how much reverb you really use. Some people just like a tiny bit, and for those people the difference may not matter. But when you want a real surf-y sound, real springs make a difference.
And FYI, I'm totally anti-mojo, don't buy into the "golden ear" tweako BS.
To my ears, the standard is the reverb on the Fender Twin Reverb. I just love that reverb sound. :icon_razz:
Not to split hairs, but this 5w tube-recto-reverb with long 2spring accutronics is a big tank tone.
I speculate one reason the Twin is known such a fine reverb amp is because the amp will almost not distort.
Not to say distortion-reverbsdistortions can't be a fine sound, but the boost pushed the springs harder, the harmonically rich signal may do that too, combine that with an amp that distorts...gets mushy and ill defined on command.
Reverb-amp.
Distortion-amp.
By the time I get all the speakers/amps/reverbs/distortions going, I have a 2x12'' box, large reverb box, a couple amp head boxes, a pedalboard...
I'm strongly inclined to believe a little bit of 'wetness' [be it spring generated or echo-based] goes a long way to fatten up an otherwise dry amplifier. The chip-reverb certainly does lend itself to being lightwieght, compact, hardwired, easy to PS small amplifer accessory/feature.
Let me clear up a few misconceptions about the Belton module...
The module per se is not an emulation of a spring or anything else. It's just a very basic reverb, albeit one that uses a different algorithm than most. It just so happens that it sounds pretty good when voiced as if it were a spring. Some people think it sounds similar to a spring reverb in this case. Personally, I can instantly hear the difference; and, personally, I usually prefer the sound of the module when it is well voiced. But that's just me, and to each his own. As a matter of fact, most digital emulations of spring reverbs are basically the same thing: fairly typical reverb algorithms with some tweaks to make them sound more like spring pans.
This module was developed independently from Belton's first module and is completely different. Someone else developed the first module, which was a more expensive multi-effects module.
I am not yet prepared to disclose the inner workings of the module on this forum. Belton is very protective of this technology--and rightfully so, as they have some rather unscrupulous Chinese competitors. I do have a pending patent on this reverb, so anyone willing to search for the application can get a good idea of what I did.
By the way, please follow the datasheet and use a regulated 5V supply. Most of the time when someone emails me about their module not working, it's because they are not using a regulated 5V supply. The other common question I get is how to add decay adjustment. The short answer is: you can't. Without going into details, it's a limitation of the minimalist design.
I have posted links and further information about the module at www.NeunaberTechnology.com (http://www.neunabertechnology.com).
Brian
Woo Hoo
Went to the mail today after work and my reverb kit was there in my box :icon_smile:
This is my first kit build, the rest have been from scratch.
The kit looks good, nice board and good parts.
The box is a Chinese knock off, but looks OK
The box comes pre drilled and actually the sides of the box are smoother them the 4 Hammonds I got last week (less casting mess)
The kit comes with everything needed, even the solder is included.
It was well packaged. and the componets are in there own pouches according to type.
Nice kit GGG!!
ya my first build was a ggg tube screamer, they package everything wonderfully and there products are of the utmost quality, nice job guys!!!
Hi, I built it too, but mine didn't work :icon_sad:
It was a fast but careful, clean build. The only thing I can think of after hours of checking the circuit is that I may have fried the 5v regulator.
I am not very familiar with them. Does anyone know what happens to them when they get too hot. I have a short in the circuit that I cannot explain despite having gone over every joint with a magnifying glass
can you check and see if 5v is coming out of it?
When I made mine I put sockets on the board for the IC chips and I also socket-ed the Reveb brick module, in case I made a mistake putting the parts on the board.
This way I can take the reverb brick off to get at the other components. I put a resistor in the wrong spot and had to move it, that was in the populating stage.
Mine works well and it sounds good to me. I still have to put it in an encloser.
I have tried to measure the output, assuming that one of the legs on the regulator must be 5v, but I've got 7.84v between DC jack earth and the left and middle legs + the main tab and 8.8v on the right leg. From a measured 9v source.
All off-board wiring has been traced and triple checked, board has been triple checked for +/- on electrolytics and I measured resistor values with a DMM as I populated the board. I also socketed the opamps.
But I have a short that I cannot find, I get a 9v reading between DC jack earth and all other ground points. So I was wondering if the regulator was fried could it short circuit?
Thanks for any suggestions
Quote from: neunaber on May 26, 2009, 02:41:19 PM
I have posted links and further information about the module at www.NeunaberTechnology.com (http://www.neunabertechnology.com).
Brian
Brian,
I've built the schematic as from smallbear and your site. I did notice that, using humbuckers, if the input level of the module gets too high it starts outputting a loud noise (lI'd say like a brown noise) that feedbacks onitself and can only be stopped by disconnecting the power. I've tried this with two of your modules and both displayed the same behaviour. Scaling down the level by adjusting the opamp stage in front of the module helps partially. Have you ever experienced the module going 'beserk' ? and is there an easy way to cure this?
Regards,
Arnoud
I've got a kit on order from GGG. I'd like to mod it with a "splash" mode that involves a toggle and a momentary switch. When I flip the toggle the input signal to the reverb should be cut off (spdt on-on toggle). Next in line is the momentary stomp switch and it will make the connection to the verb input again when I hold it down. This way I can "accent" certain notes with verb. From the schematic and layout at GGG it looks like I'd need to cut a trace between the op amp output and the verb input and then drill 2 or 3 new holes to patch in the switches. Does this seem like it would work? I'm wondering how much of a pop will be inserted when I hit the momentary switch. Would I add some pull down resistors to the momentary switch if there is a pop? Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated.
anyone built it and wants to post some soundclips :D :D
Quote from: Kitarist on June 05, 2009, 02:15:28 PM
anyone built it and wants to post some soundclips :D :D
The GGG page for the verb has video and audio demos: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=160&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=45
Ok, panic over!
After a few more hours, staring at the box, I suddenly found the stupid mistake. Unbelievable how your mind can play tricks on you. It was there all the time winking at me, but I just couldn't see it until now.
This is a very cool box. I'm very impressed. Well worth the investment (especially if it hadn't been caught by Danish Import tax)
I run a small clean amp by Phil Jones, the Cub 100. So no fancy amp effects for me. This box is a major part of what was missing.
Next step tube pre-amp and I think I'll be close to my goal.
Seriously, build this one. Thanks GGG
Hi Biggy Boy!
Where did you get sockets for the brick? It seems to have larger sized pins
than standard IC. Mine building is otherwise ready to box but cannot find
those sockets.
I´ve always socketed all my IC´s and I think it´s
very important with the reverb module.
-Lasse
Youd have to make a socket.
I finished mine last week. It works fine. Distorts a little.
Quote from: The Surgeon on June 09, 2009, 12:04:37 AM
Hi Biggy Boy!
Where did you get sockets for the brick? It seems to have larger sized pins
than standard IC. Mine building is otherwise ready to box but cannot find
those sockets.
I´ve always socketed all my IC´s and I think it´s
very important with the reverb module.
-Lasse
You can use SIP single in-line pins they come in strips, you just cut off the length you need.
or you can use an IC socket, just cut it in half lengthwise and use what you need from it.( don't use the IC sockets that have the round holes)!!
they ain't big enough for the pins. The IC sockets that have the springy type clips work.
Was using the reverb today, for about an hour straight, then I noticed I was loosing the reverb. checked the battery and the voltage was good 9.2 volts.
I let it sit for a couple of minutes and it was fine again then after a while it would loose it's reverb again ???
I'm thinking that the 5 volt voltage regulator is overheating and shutting off on safety!
Not good.
Any thoughts on this?
Glen
Might as well try to heatsink it. Couldn't hurt anyway.
Quote from: mth5044 on June 10, 2009, 08:20:45 PM
Might as well try to heatsink it. Couldn't hurt anyway.
Ya that's what I was thinking but, it's a surface mount tiny regulator.
May have to try soldering a chunk of copper to the metal tab that is soldered to the board.
is it hot to the touch?
I'll have to turn it on for an hour again tomorrow and see if it gets hot.
I Should clip my meter on to it to see if the 5 volts shuts down, when the reverb stops working.
I also have a temperature prob I can monitor the temp with.
Please keep me posted on this. The regulator is running at 50% (the reverb module uses 100mA or less and the regulator can handle 200mA). It could be that the regulator needs to be replaced (if its turning actually off).
Alf
Quote from: biggy boy on June 10, 2009, 10:41:57 PM
I'll have to turn it on for an hour again tomorrow and see if it gets hot.
I Should clip my meter on to it to see if the 5 volts shuts down, when the reverb stops working.
I also have a temperature prob I can monitor the temp with.
I bought the GGG Reverb kit a few days ago. I think that I'm going to try using it in my old Gregory Mark X tube amp as an add-on reverb. I think since I'm not into the super springy surfer sound it'll be OK for my ears. It can be on a seperate power supply since I already have a seperate power transformer for a 24VDC cooling fan. It wouldn't be too much work to add on the reverb brick.
It all depends on how well I like it, though. If I think it sounds any good at all, I'll come back to give a report on it.
I tried the belton unit as a post processing for a recorded track and I think one thing this does "better" than real thing is I believe there is a small pre-delay before reverberation starts in the programming algorithm which might help original guitar attack to be heard a bit better. If I ever get mine boxed I will add line level input and perhaps rca input output jacks parallel so I can use it for whatever I want
Just bought Boss RE-20 Space Echo and I think it is true what they said that they cloned faithfully the sound of original Roland RE-201 spring reverb so the spring does not sound "much special" but anyway it fits the overall mix very very nice. Have not tried trough belton yet
Quote from: mth5044 on May 19, 2009, 07:37:18 PM
That video is a real turnoff for me. It sounds like it's just a delay with really short delay times, not a reverb-like sound, like the new spring chicken.
Yes, the decay when he hits the muted strings in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNDCjzsHBAw sounds quite "angular", but that's the nature of spring reverb type sounds I guess...
However in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htFFdDTkdZY&feature=PlayList&p=78DE4D8DDE6A8C9D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=29
the decay sounds much better on those short chords.
Lee Jackson says that he "modifies" the Belton module...
Wonder how that is done considering how the module is constructed ???
I got my kit today and built it right after I opened the box. :icon_redface:
I must say, it sounds pretty nice! It totally transforms my reverb-less amps into very nice sounding amps. I'm not even remotely disappointed in how it sounds. It sounds much better than I expected. :icon_razz:
The Belon module comes in 3 different versions:
- Short reverb/ 2 sec
- Medium Reverb/2,5 sec
- Long reverb/2,85 sec
Which module is included in the GGG kit?
Got my kit too, and it does sound awesome! I'm always a bit sceptical when it comes to digital stuff, but this one gets my thumbs up. ;)
Not sure which of the bricks he sends with the kit though, guess you'll have to check the label (mine is already boxed up and glued tight :D ).
Forgot to say it sounded nice when I panned straight and reverb at left and right (or was it another way dont remember that too)
Quote from: polifemo on June 13, 2009, 02:26:34 AM
The Belon module comes in 3 different versions:
- Short reverb/ 2 sec
- Medium Reverb/2,5 sec
- Long reverb/2,85 sec
Which module is included in the GGG kit?
It comes with the Medium Reverb
Are the reverb modules interchangeable with the circuit? Like one size fits all? could be neat to make a larger reverb unit with short/medium/long settings.
I am going to wait till all the opinions are in before I order one. I have a project happenning thats it fits in very well . Hey Paul which module did you put in your amp, the long med or short ?
It sounds much better than I expected.
..I kind of expected it ''could''.
Chips are certainly capable of nicely reproducing a delayed signals now.
Springs were the choice that ''all parties'' [builders, buyers, players] liked when springs were the 'best' way to get reverb into amplifiers, plates wouldn't fit.
halls rented for too much, hardly anyone was ever able to be putting guitar amps in cathedrals, tank reverbs are way too hard to move, the rock crowds didn't seem to gather well in caves...
Quote from: ahermida on June 11, 2009, 07:08:59 PM
Please keep me posted on this. The regulator is running at 50% (the reverb module uses 100mA or less and the regulator can handle 200mA). It could be that the regulator needs to be replaced (if its turning actually off).
Alf
I used the pedal today for about an hour and a half, then it shut down. No reverb :icon_frown:
Turned it off then back on, still no reverb.
I let it sit for ten minutes then I turned it back on and it works again ???
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Glen
I put this circuit into one of my tube amps. See here for more: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=77120.0
Hopefully I don't have a problem with it shutting down. If I do, I have a emergency bypass switch built into it just in case...
OK
I think I found the problem
This thing eats batteries :icon_twisted:
I've gone through 3 Duracells in about 3 hours of use.
I need to get a power supply for it, one that doesn't make noise?
Quote from: biggy boy on June 13, 2009, 09:07:14 PM
OK
I think I found the problem
This thing eats batteries :icon_twisted:
I've gone through 3 Duracells in about 3 hours of use.
I need to get a power supply for it, one that doesn't make noise?
That seems to be eating them
really fast. I think a 9V battery ought to last at least about 5-6 hours or so in this circuit.
Something sounds awry... :icon_confused:
Not sure how many mili amp hours are in a typical 9 volt battery.
The reverb block uses 100ma the LED uses 10-20ma?, plus what ever the rest of the pedal uses.
EDIT:
at a 100ma discharge rate a 9 volt battery has just over 300mah.
found this info here. http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm
Plus the battery doesn't need to drain down to far before that 5 volt regulator stops working. Remeber the regulator needs about 2 volts plus, above it's rating for it to work.
Thats 7 volts!
Yeah, I guess I looked at the data sheet wrong. I think three hours is more like it, but the batteries lasting only one hour seems to be extreme. I think you've figured it out, the voltage regulator is not getting a high enough voltage to keep the circuit going after about an hour elapses.
So, it appears to me that your circuit is using three times the amount of current that it should be. Now you need to identify why. Or just use a wall wart for your power supply. :icon_wink:
Got mine working today, at last I found the right size socket strips.
It really sounds good but I would not say it sounds just like springs. Anyway, it is very good.
Tested it about 40 min with battery and it works fine, but I had Boss RV-3 long time ago
and I remember that it ate battery in about one and a half hour.
I think that if device take 100 or more milliamps battery is used only when you can´t use power supply
for some or the other reason.
Analog distortion boxes take only 5 to 7 mA, delays a bit more. I have Boss PSA (worked fine very long time) but nowI think I have to
get one that delivers more current than it.
That was good project, very easy to build and very affordable too, but the most important thing is
that it sounds so good.
Lasse
Did some more testing.
Did an amperage draw on it, it's using about 76 Milli Amps.
Also had a voltage meter on the battery to see what voltage the reverb stops working at. At around 7.6 volts under load the reverb stops working.
It took about an hour and a half for the pedal to drop the voltage down to cutoff.
Glen
Quote from: biggy boy on June 14, 2009, 04:07:58 PM
Did some more testing.
Did an amperage draw on it, it's using about 76 Milli Amps.
Also had a voltage meter on the battery to see what voltage the reverb stops working at. At around 7.6 volts under load the reverb stops working.
It took about an hour and a half for the pedal to drop the voltage down to cutoff.
Glen
Well, I guess that just a limitation of operating this circuit on a 9V battery then. That's one reason why I almost never use batteries in any of my builds. I guess I will especially not use them on this kind of circuit!
Some alterations to the circuit are beeing discussed over here:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=77130.0
Has anyone considered adding a footswitch between two pots as a sort of preset option for a heavy and light reverb?
I have planned on doing that but i'll have to re-box and all that jazz...maybe i can add a jack and use an external switch and pot...
Quote from: Nitefly182 on June 17, 2009, 02:46:43 AM
Has anyone considered adding a footswitch between two pots as a sort of preset option for a heavy and light reverb?
Can you explain the concept a bit more, I'm kind of slow :icon_biggrin:
not sure if this will work, but here goes. pot is a voltage divider so it needs all 3 jack lugs. you will need an isolated(plastic is easiest) stereo jack and go from board to jack, jack to pot...using the sleeve for the middle lug of the pot. you will need a stereo cable from jack to expression pedal jack. the exp pedal will be set up the same way, jack to pot, pot to switch(probably a dpdt). that was a rough thought and i'm not exactly sure it will work. use this: http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DRAGONFLY-LAYOUTS_0/The-Mod-Zone-_/DUAL_VOLUME.jpg.html (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DRAGONFLY-LAYOUTS_0/The-Mod-Zone-_/DUAL_VOLUME.jpg.html) but imagine the jack as pot #1 you may need a 3pdt instead
sorry for the haste reply! in the case of just adding a switch and pot for a seperate reverb level, just go exactly by the above link. my directions were for an external footswitch w/pot. sorry
Yeah I know how to switch pots Im just asking if someone has done it with this circuit and if they had any pop issues or stuff like that.
sorry, i was answering more for biggy boy
Quote from: ppatchmods on June 17, 2009, 02:58:44 PM
sorry, i was answering more for biggy boy
Ah gotcha. My kit showed up today so Im going to give switchable amount pots a shot on this pedal. Typically I dont have any problems and Im hoping there isn't any pop that then gets verbed when I switch 'channels.'
Done. Worked out flawlessly and the reverb sounds totally awesome.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/nitefly182/P1010312.jpg)
Quote from: ppatchmods on June 17, 2009, 02:58:44 PM
sorry, i was answering more for biggy boy
Thanks :icon_wink:
Quote from: Nitefly182 on June 17, 2009, 09:17:31 PM
Done. Worked out flawlessly and the reverb sounds totally awesome.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/nitefly182/P1010312.jpg)
Ooo... very nice. :icon_cool:
the thing stopped working. After some probing I figured (hoped) it was the first op amp. Switched it out ( i didnt use a socket) and replaced it. Wrks great once again.
But strange that the op amp blew wht could have happened? Bad adapter? Reverse voltage? I think theres a diode to protect against that. Or was i pumping too much gain into it. Rangemaster. O squeeze, green ringer and big muff all at once through reverb?
I played ithrough it last night an i worked. I turned it off and went to bed. Today my pedal setup is quiet! The amp just blew over night all by itself???
This is strange, what is this?
All the voltage readings seemed to be in line ( i dont have a reference) 5 volts, 4.5, 9. But there were some tgat were 1.25 and 3.50 before i switched it out. I shoulda measured after i fixed it, but i was just toi releived and excited that i put the lid back and on and started playing.
I might do the two pot mod
right now theres an 860 ohm resistor so when i turn the reverb down all the way i get a tiny bit. I might lower i to 680 but 860 seems like its already rite on the edge.
Another thing, this is the only pedal i have thy doesnt hum or buzz when powering a pedal.
Even the noisy one spot which everyone seems to love an get no noise with gives me the worst out of any ive tried. I have filtering in my pedals fo it but i still get hum. But the one spot is quiet(er) through this unit. Strange.
Quote from: El Heisenberg on June 22, 2009, 08:33:15 PM
Another thing, this is the only pedal i have thy doesnt hum or buzz when powering a pedal.
Even the noisy one spot which everyone seems to love an get no noise with gives me the worst out of any ive tried. I have filtering in my pedals fo it but i still get hum. But the one spot is quiet(er) through this unit. Strange.
You must be consistently not doing something right then. With proper grounding and properly regulated power supplies, you shouldn't have any problems with hum like that...
Is there any way to add a dwell and tone pot to this circuit?
Andy
i'm sure the tone pot will work, but the dwell is fixed...but you can buy a replacement brick from smallbear with longer sustain. i'm not sure if the circuit has to be modified though? ???
Maybe it is me doin something consistantly wrong
Like what?
I did mention that on batteries they run totally quiet.
Some pedals will rin quiet on an adapter, but with a daisy chain they will not. The ony pedal i power with wall wart is the digi verb. Cus it works even with the one spot! (there is still a noticable
noise with the one spot that i dont get with my normal phone charger adapter i use.
So no theories on my op amp
blowing? Over night, while it was off and working when i last turned it off?
It didn't blow while it was off. It blew when you turned it back on. Perhaps there was a surge in power or some static discharge that caused a problem.
Just built mine :)
Totally dead in every respect :icon_cry:
I suck :icon_redface:
Quote from: polifemo on June 24, 2009, 07:00:27 AM
Just built mine :)
Totally dead in every respect :icon_cry:
I suck :icon_redface:
Check to see if your opamps aren't in backwards. And double check all of your caps and resistors against the PCB layout.
Quote from: El Heisenberg on June 23, 2009, 11:57:14 PM
Some pedals will rin quiet on an adapter, but with a daisy chain they will not. The ony pedal i power with wall wart is the digi verb. Cus it works even with the one spot! (there is still a noticable
noise with the one spot that i dont get with my normal phone charger adapter i use.
So no theories on my op amp
blowing? Over night, while it was off and working when i last turned it off?
Huh. I've never had a problem with daisy chaining the power supply on my pedalboards. I have two different pedalboards in use now, and both of them are very quiet, and both of them have a daisy chained power supply.
One of my boards has three different power supplies on it. All of the 9V stuff is daisy chained. The Shaka Tube runs off a 13VAC adapter and my DigiTech Jam Man also has its own power 1.3A power supply. No problems whatsoever with hum or noise in spite of everything having a common signal ground...
Also be sure to check the values of all the componets from ggg I have not got a kit that was completely right.
Andy
Also the op amps might be blown, make a probe and see. If you socketed them you could switch em out.
Quote from: AndyG on June 24, 2009, 10:41:48 AM
Also be sure to check the values of all the componets from ggg I have not got a kit that was completely right.
Andy
I double checked every component before I stuck them on the PCB. I don't like to troubleshoot and desolder if I can help it. :icon_wink:
And there is always the human error component, with either some wrong value parts in the kit or making a mistake when assembling it...
Double check your jacks op amps switch and the diode in the power section.
Don't feel bad I built the kit closed it up powered it up and I had put hte led in backwards.
Andy
Quote from: AndyG on June 24, 2009, 12:06:58 PM
Double check your jacks op amps switch and the diode in the power section.
Don't feel bad I built the kit closed it up powered it up and I had put hte led in backwards.
Andy
Yeah, I've had the backwards LED thing bite me in the rear a few times, too.
Yeah, I've had the backwards LED thing bite me in the rear a few times, too.
I started choosing and coupling the limiting resistor right to the LED, that way I know...wait...which side of the LED did I put the 3k3 on ?...shoot !
Thanks for the encouraging words guys :icon_razz:
At the moment I don't have the time to go over my build, but I'll have a look tomorrow.
If I have wired the LED wrong (would that result in both "no sound" and "no light"?) will it then be broken?
PS I did check the resistor values before soldering the board, and everything was OK.DS
Update.
Found the problem.
The "color code" of the layout (Hermida) doesn't correspond with the instructions of the reverb.
Look at the red/black pair going to the DC jack.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c109/prof2915/Bild3-3.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c109/prof2915/Bild4-1.jpg)
I soldered the circuit board according to the verb instructions and then I wired it according to the (colors) of the layout.
Stupid, yes but it can easily happen.
The verb works now, but as I suspected it sounds way to much like a spring reverb (as intended, I know :icon_wink:) for my taste.
It was worth a try though.
Back to my lovely hall/plate rack reverbs 8)
Quote from: polifemo on June 24, 2009, 02:23:35 PM
If I have wired the LED wrong (would that result in both "no sound" and "no light"?) will it then be broken?
That would result in no sound and your LED would also not light up. The rest of circuit would be fine, it just wouldn't be getting any power because the LED was in backwards.
As I seem to be the only one underwhelmed by the sound of this reverb, I suppose that the following won't be of much interest :icon_wink:
Anyhow, when I compared the sound of this unit with the sound of the spring reverb in one of my amps it became obvious that the pedal reacts to much to trancients and that the sound was anemic and sterile somehow. I also would have preferred the Belton module with the longest decay as I find that the decay by the medium module to be to short.
Looking at the original schematic by Brian Neunaber: http://www.neunabertechnology.com/BTDR1 as well as the data sheet of the Belton brick it became obvious that what I needed to do was to tweak two resistors:
R1 and R3 on the Neunaber schem/R4 and R6 on the Hermida schem)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c109/prof2915/Bild1-14.jpg)
I started by removing R1 (R4 on the Hermida schem) which resulted in a much more "free sounding" reverb (IMHO)
I'm still tweaking R3 (R6 on the Hermida schem) for the right value.
The sound of the reverb is now warmer/fuller/bigger (and somehow also longer) and the only drawback is that the mix knob now is much more touchy.
I still plan to use the reverb quite subtle, but to me this "warmer/fuller/bigger/longer-sound" is more musical and more usable.
Others may disagree.
R talking about opening up the brick and modding it?
Quote from: El Heisenberg on June 26, 2009, 05:48:50 AM
R talking about opening up the brick and modding it?
No, he is referring to the schematic posted above. R1 is the input resistor and R3 is the resistor at the Vout pin of the Belton reverb unit.
As polifemo said, I think I might like it a little better with longest delay time. But I don't think that anyone carries anything but the medium delay version of the Belton unit.
tubesandmore.com has all three versions for $15 a pop.
Quote from: doug deeper on June 26, 2009, 09:47:44 AM
tubesandmore.com has all three versions for $15 a pop.
Really? Cool, thanks for the tip!
I´ll try to get hold of the Belton Brick with the longest decay as well.
The mods I´ve done doesn´t alter the decay time, but as one gets a fuller sounding reverb, one gets the impression of a (slightly) longer decay.
Anyone interested in moddin´the verb can start by removing R4.
Really easy and it makes a quite nice change.
QuoteAnyone interested in moddin´the verb can start by removing R4.
Really easy and it makes a quite nice change.
I think I might try that...
Slightly O/T but there's a reverb project just been posted over at electromusic.com which uses multiple PT2399's. No schematic has appeared yet, but there's some cool soundclips and a couple of photos of the guys breadboard, which give a bit of an insight into what's going on.
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35276&sid=8d7de7a1a0bd23c444f7dddd7de30083
Thanks for the link.
Listen briefly and it seems to be a great sounding circuit.
I tried removing R4 as polifemo suggested. I can't really tell much of a difference with it removed. Maybe it sounds just slightly more open, if anything. It would probably be even more noticeable if you also tweaked C2 a little bit.
I think I would like it better with the "long" delay module. I don't know that 2.5 seconds vs. 2.85 seconds is that noticeable, but I suppose it would be. That's a full 1/3 of a second longer delay...
Try increasing R3/R6 a bit as well.
The thing broke again!
This time it worked fine unless i played any pedal through it. Turn on rangemaster or orange squeezer and it gets loud like a distortion pedal. Turn on the big muff and the thing goes totally quiet! I had problems with static and white noise with it after i fixed it the first time. It would start and id have to jiggle the input cord or turn it off an on again and it would function. But suddenly, again for seemingly no reason it starts acting strange again.
After desoldering the second op amp which, after probing and measuring, i assumed, was again what broke, i put in a tl082 since im outta tl072s. The thing still didnt work. And after desoldering the brick and the ic twice already, thr pcb is destroyed! Its not made like most of GGGs PCBs. After it got bad i got strange readings from the op amp that wasnt affected and from the 5v regulator which measured 7v! It looks like I have to rebuild the circuit on perf board. Desolder the surface mount regulator and use it on perf board. I cant afford another kit.
What the heck is wrong with my unit?!? Please trust me, ive checked connections, wires, resistor and cap values and orientations, solder bridges, and its not a metal box problem. Its plastic.
Only thing is i just measured the voltage from the adapter i used for it, it was putting out 12v instead of 9 like it says! In fact All my adapters that say 9v put out 12 except for the one spot. Which is unusably noisy, even with my commercial pedals.
I need my reverb back! That was all i had and it sounds like crap without an atmosphere! I just spent 4 or more hours trying to fix this! Im not gunna be able to sleep. This is the only DIY pedal i really paid for. I ordered the kit sans enclosure, and its given methe most problems! Strange unseeable voodoo problems!
I dont NEED to use that particular 5v surface mount regulator, do I? Can i just lift one from radioshack? Breaboarding and building this on pas-per-hole is gunna be a pain in the $:$
Here is a new reverb pedal: http://www.neunabertechnology.com/wet-reverb
Interesting!
Quote from: dantahoua on July 27, 2009, 12:57:40 PM
Here is a new reverb pedal: http://www.neunabertechnology.com/wet-reverb
Interesting!
That enclosure looks too small to have a Belton reverb brick in it. Or they have a very clever and efficiently designed PCB in it...
it can't be the belton because you can adjust the dwell/decay. being able to adjust the decay makes that pedal sound like the old digitech xp400 i used to have. it had some sweet plate reverb sounds but it was a tone sucker!
Quote from: ppatchmods on July 27, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
it can't be the belton because you can adjust the dwell/decay. being able to adjust the decay makes that pedal sound like the old digitech xp400 i used to have. it had some sweet plate reverb sounds but it was a tone sucker!
Hmm... I wonder how they accomplished that then?
Quote from: Paul Marossy on July 28, 2009, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: ppatchmods on July 27, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
it can't be the belton because you can adjust the dwell/decay. being able to adjust the decay makes that pedal sound like the old digitech xp400 i used to have. it had some sweet plate reverb sounds but it was a tone sucker!
Hmm... I wonder how they accomplished that then?
Keep in mind that marketing is about perception... It may not 'technically' change reverb decay but you may be able to come up with a way to give the "effect"of a decay control.
bw
Quote from: wampcat1 on July 28, 2009, 10:05:30 AM
Quote from: Paul Marossy on July 28, 2009, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: ppatchmods on July 27, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
it can't be the belton because you can adjust the dwell/decay. being able to adjust the decay makes that pedal sound like the old digitech xp400 i used to have. it had some sweet plate reverb sounds but it was a tone sucker!
Hmm... I wonder how they accomplished that then?
Keep in mind that marketing is about perception... It may not 'technically' change reverb decay but you may be able to come up with a way to give the "effect"of a decay control.
bw
Yeah, but I still can't see how they can stuff all those things into that size enclosure. :icon_confused:
That's true Brian! If you could figure out how to dial back the mix without affecting the decay that would be cool...still, there is no need for a decay knob at that point(with the belton brick).
Quote from: Paul Marossy on July 28, 2009, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: wampcat1 on July 28, 2009, 10:05:30 AM
Quote from: Paul Marossy on July 28, 2009, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: ppatchmods on July 27, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
it can't be the belton because you can adjust the dwell/decay. being able to adjust the decay makes that pedal sound like the old digitech xp400 i used to have. it had some sweet plate reverb sounds but it was a tone sucker!
Hmm... I wonder how they accomplished that then?
Keep in mind that marketing is about perception... It may not 'technically' change reverb decay but you may be able to come up with a way to give the "effect"of a decay control.
bw
Yeah, but I still can't see how they can stuff all those things into that size enclosure. :icon_confused:
I used the Spin FV-1 and wrote a custom reverb algorithm for it.
Hello friends
First of all let apologize to mr. Jd sleep cause he's a really. Cool and nice guy and the hirmida engineer dude
who designed the generalguitargadgets.com D-verb with belton Btdr 1h reverb . I kinda pirated
the layout he posted in the ggg site and etch a pcb for myself , I just couldn't buy the kit at this time
plus I had the belton btdr1h brick longest version in hand so I said, "why not" ?
Well the circuit works fine and it sounds clean!!! , is just that the reverb isn't very very long as I thought it would be considering the
longest decay version of the brick. I heard that it can get very wild
My question is : is there any mods that you guys know that I can do to increase the
level of the reverb so that I can use the full potential of the belton unit
I would really like to hear this reverb sound a bit longer I used all the components in the layout
with exception of the BAT 46 diode , I just couldn't find it here.
Help me out here please !!!! IMG_1084.JPG
Hello friends
First of all let apologize to mr. Jd sleep cause he's a really. Cool and nice guy and the hirmida engineer dude
who designed the generalguitargadgets.com D-verb with belton Btdr 1h reverb . I kinda pirated
the layout he posted in the ggg site and etch a pcb for myself , I just couldn't buy the kit at this time
plus I had the belton btdr1h brick longest version in hand so I said, "why not" ?
Well the circuit works fine and it sounds clean!!! , is just that the reverb isn't very very long as I thought it would be considering the
longest decay version of the brick. I heard that it can get very wild
My question is : is there any mods that you guys know that I can do to increase the
level of the reverb so that I can use the full potential of the belton unit
I would really like to hear this reverb sound a bit longer I used all the components in the layout
with exception of the BAT 46 diode , I just couldn't find it here.
Help me out here please !!!! IMG_1084.JPG
Quote from: ppatchmods on May 15, 2009, 10:38:51 AM
I just ordered the kit from GGG. Anyone built it, or any reverb from the beltone yet?
I built the Newish reverb from BYOC recently, and i was disappointed...it's very springy (which i don't like...more into ambient reverb), and seems to suck tone/volume quite noticeably when its on (I have my reverb on all the time). i even changed the LED resistor from 330 Ohms to 2K thinking that the LED was somehow sucking power from it! I might try running it at 18V (which byoc says you can do) and see if that makes a diff.
Quote from: delaystomper on March 06, 2010, 04:57:42 AM
Hello friends
First of all let apologize to mr. Jd sleep cause he's a really. Cool and nice guy and the hirmida engineer dude
who designed the generalguitargadgets.com D-verb with belton Btdr 1h reverb . I kinda pirated
the layout he posted in the ggg site and etch a pcb for myself , I just couldn't buy the kit at this time
plus I had the belton btdr1h brick longest version in hand so I said, "why not" ?
Well the circuit works fine and it sounds clean!!! , is just that the reverb isn't very very long as I thought it would be considering the
longest decay version of the brick. I heard that it can get very wild
My question is : is there any mods that you guys know that I can do to increase the
level of the reverb so that I can use the full potential of the belton unit
I would really like to hear this reverb sound a bit longer I used all the components in the layout
with exception of the BAT 46 diode , I just couldn't find it here.
Help me out here please !!!! IMG_1084.JPG
I dont think you have to appologize, I think the reason GGG hosts the ready-to-transfer board image is so people can make there own! As for expanding the reverb, maybe you could make some kind of variable feedback in the circuit?