I bought some lead free solder over a year ago. It had sat around while my old spool from RS took it's time running running out. I finally tried the lead free the other day and man is it bad. It doesn't melt the same, seems to take a slightly higher temperature. I doesn't flow well at all. All of the joints look cold.
It does take a higher temp. Your iron may not be able to handle it.
I was about to open a thread about leadfree solder.
I hate it, i have to heat my crappy 10$ iron for 5 mins, then the solder finally melts but 20 sec later it makes little "explosions" when i touch the end of the soldering iron with the solder.
I takes so much heat for my solder to get liquid that i think i should socket electrolites too because i gonna kill them with the heat.
A few days ago, one leg or socket of a 8pin DIP IC socket became loose and elevated about 1mm from the others because its leg became so hot while the solder still wouldn't flow.
I agree and I have really nice irons, so it's not the iron, just doesn't flow as well. We use silver solder here at the observatory and it STILL flows better.
When I worked at the repair shop we used to repair amps for Disney, giant Crown Macros every now and then one would have a blown output transistor, we started replacing them with lead free ones and they just kept coming back, always the lead free one blown, different brands, different positions in the amp. Some things should just have lead in them, like paint chips ;)
Yes it is terrible. Not only is it harder to work with and more toxic to work with, but it reduces reliability, which means more electronics will be dumped in landfills where their (many) other toxic ingredients are free to leach into the environment, which is the exact thing RoHS was supposed to prevent. A better way to address the problem would be to make it more attractive to both consumers and producers to recycle their unwanted electronics in a responsible way. A side benefit to this would be less incentive for "recycling" programs to ship their stuff to third world countries where people burn piles of electronics junk to release the salable copper and precious metals while harming their health and our environment in the process.
Quote from: earthtonesaudio on August 18, 2009, 01:17:19 PM
Yes it is terrible. Not only is it harder to work with and more toxic to work with, but it reduces reliability, which means more electronics will be dumped in landfills where their (many) other toxic ingredients are free to leach into the environment, which is the exact thing RoHS was supposed to prevent. A better way to address the problem would be to make it more attractive to both consumers and producers to recycle their unwanted electronics in a responsible way. A side benefit to this would be less incentive for "recycling" programs to ship their stuff to third world countries where people burn piles of electronics junk to release the salable copper and precious metals while harming their health and our environment in the process.
Why aren't the member of this board running the country, nay, the World!
I have a nice temperature controlled iron so it's not the iron.
I have a spool of that really thin silver solder you get at RS. I really love that. The thin wire lets you put on just a little, and you can fit it into small places. I have switched to that for most things. But, have been using the lead free stuff for big clumsy connections like wires going to jacks. Figure at this rate it should be gone in 10 years. Though, I will have to head over to RS and get a spool of the standard stuff.
I love the whole 'LEAD IS EVIL!!!1!!' mentality...sure, it's poisonous--as are many other metals.
...but it's an element--an essential part of the earth. Get used to it.
Earthtones makes a great point with the reliability issue as well.
I think it is funny how society can sort of decide what is "really bad" (haven't heard anyone screaming about mercury thermometers or sphygagmometers (sp?) recently, much less a world wide initiative). Anyway, I have used lead free solder and, while it doesn't look as pretty or flow quite as nice, I haven't had any problems with it really. Must just be the stuff I tried.
This reminds me of the lead-free plumbers' solder that I saw once - it claimed to be 95% tin and 5% antimony. Antimony is an element similar to arsenic but with about one ninth of the toxicity. So this stuff was still waaaaaaay more toxic than tin-lead solder. But it was lead free! That's the bureaucratic mentality for you.
I read in a toxicological journal that 0,8% of total world deaths are caused by lead (55 000 000 deaths a year I think). But most poisonings are due to environmental contamination. Inhalation and ingestion are pathways. Some have argued that inorganic forms of lead are not assimilable by the body and the tin-lead compound does not leach: this is simply not true: all standardised tests show it. Now to say that electronic soldering is dangerous is exaggeration. But keep in mind that the minimal limit for exposition have simply disappeared (any amount of lead can cause damage). The folder on the lead case is not totally clear and scientifics are still studying and battling in the whole question. Just take the precautions but don't get paranoid about it. I know a guy who got some shotgun balls in the head and still wear them and he is relatively sane :icon_lol: .
I use the thin radio shack silver solder and cook it with 420c heat and I get great joints everytime... I haven't overheated any parts yat.
I love silver solder, and I use the thin stuff all the time, the thick stuff is great also, but it does take more heat.
You'll definitely need a lead-free solder station with a higher thermal recovery performance. Otherwise it's really a drag. I bought a good but relatively cheap Aoyue and it works fine.
We aren't allowed to use lead free solder when we build anything for NASA because they say it is unreliable and in zero gravity it grows crystalline fingers that short things out. Of course NASA people are very picky. I have a very nice Hakko at home and a Weller WD2 here at work, it's not the stations. Lead free will flow fine but it takes more finesse shall we say, and a good station.
Quote from: sovtek50 on August 19, 2009, 11:01:37 AM
You'll definitely need a lead-free solder station with a higher thermal recovery performance. Otherwise it's really a drag. I bought a good but relatively cheap Aoyue and it works fine.
Yep, I have a 50$ aoyue soldering station and it rocks!!
I can't stand the lead free solder, I won't use it.
I have no problem with lead free solder. I've been using it for over a year now. It needs a bit higher temp but my cheap soldering station fixes that. True it does not get those shiny joins and you might think that they are bad and it does not float as easy but that's just something one gets use to after a while.
BTW
Dental fillings and thermometers etc. that contains organic mercury (that leads to infertility) is forbidden to sell in the EU since 10 years or so. The digital photo technique has lowered the toxic waste of silver (that kills fish) in the sewer from the photo developing industry with 90%.
This forum has 14252 members. Say that each member use 0.2 Kg solder a year. That's toxic lead fumes from 2850 kg only from this forum.
Remember what PCB and DDT did??
Don't want to contaminate the environment for my children at the kitchen table. Better safe than sorry.
but there's hardly any lead in the fumes.
and yes, you should not solder at the kitchen table.
Quote from: solderman on August 20, 2009, 03:45:07 AM
I have no problem with lead free solder. I've been using it for over a year now. It needs a bit higher temp but my cheap soldering station fixes that. True it does not get those shiny joins and you might think that they are bad and it does not float as easy but that's just something one gets use to after a while.
BTW
Dental fillings and thermometers etc. that contains organic mercury (that leads to infertility) is forbidden to sell in the EU since 10 years or so. The digital photo technique has lowered the toxic waste of silver (that kills fish) in the sewer from the photo developing industry with 90%.
This forum has 14252 members. Say that each member use 0.2 Kg solder a year. That's toxic lead fumes from 2850 kg only from this forum.
Remember what PCB and DDT did??
Don't want to contaminate the environment for my children at the kitchen table. Better safe than sorry.
Those are all great points, except the part about lead fumes. My understanding is that the lead in solder does not become airborne at soldering temperatures. The fumes you experience come from the flux burning. Incidentally, in lead free solder the flux is more active and the fumes are more toxic.
There is a real hazard when something containing leaded solder is dumped into the environment, as rainwater can leach the lead out of the solder joints and into the water supply. However, the attempt to curtail environmental pollution by banning hazardous chemicals one at a time does nothing for the root cause of the problem: people who don't think twice about dumping their old junk into the environment.
Even if we banned everything that you know is hazardous today, people would still throw stuff in landfills, and years from now we might realize that some of the things we currently think are harmless are in fact toxic, or become toxic when combined with other harmless things.
My point is not to suggest that we should do nothing, rather that our efforts would be better spent addressing the bigger problem. Making it more inconvenient (or illegal) for people to improperly dispose of unwanted electronics would address the toxicity problem, but at the same time it would address the more epidemic problem of not thinking (or caring) what happens to things that get "thrown away."
Banning leaded solder is like making a law against talking on your cell phone when driving. Yes, the intentions are good, and yes, it will probably help prevent accidents, but the big problem that no one seems to want to talk about is that there are just too damn many people driving individual cars!
Oppps
stompbox buildning seems to be a dangerous hobby. :o
Besides getting tinnitus and being electrified the soldering part looks really dangerous. I thing I'll have to start knitting after reading this ;D
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg248.pdf (http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg248.pdf)
http://www.le.ac.uk/eg/safety/risk/solder/Risk_Assessment_For_Soldering.doc (http://www.le.ac.uk/eg/safety/risk/solder/Risk_Assessment_For_Soldering.doc)
Quote from: solderman on August 20, 2009, 08:09:31 AM
Oppps
stompbox buildning seems to be a dangerous hobby. :o
Besides getting tinnitus and being electrified the soldering part looks really dangerous. I thing I'll have to start knitting after reading this ;D
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg248.pdf (http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg248.pdf)
http://www.le.ac.uk/eg/safety/risk/solder/Risk_Assessment_For_Soldering.doc (http://www.le.ac.uk/eg/safety/risk/solder/Risk_Assessment_For_Soldering.doc)
*Lights a smoke and points at you with the hand holding my whiskey glass*
"You ain't never seen a man get carpal tunnel syndrome before, have you, boy? Knittin' is dangerous here in these parts. You'd get outta town now if you had any sense..."
When you sell to the EU you have to use that crap. I find that 850 degrees F works, but you still get the occasional "tin whiskers" and have to really check every joint under a magnifying glass.
Every profession comes with risks. The guy pumping gas breathes all kinds of toxic fumes, but you don't see anyone putting the kibosh on that.
Like Steven Tyler said "It's not the cough that carries you off, it's the coffin they carry you off in!"
Quote from: MoltenVoltage on August 20, 2009, 11:27:34 AM
When you sell to the EU you have to use that crap. I find that 850 degrees F works, but you still get the occasional "tin whiskers" and have to really check every joint under a magnifying glass.
Every profession comes with risks. The guy pumping gas breathes all kinds of toxic fumes, but you don't see anyone putting the kibosh on that.
Like Steven Tyler said "It's not the cough that carries you off, it's the coffin they carry you off in!"
I haven't seen a gas station where someone actually pumps the gas for you in at least 15 years. Just an observation...
EDIT: You know, there wouldn't be the need for RoHS compliance if the world didn't have an "everything is disposable" mentality. I can't believe what I see on the curb on trash day around here. Stuff that is perfectly good and which could be given to Goodwill or something sitting there like it is trash, when it isn't. People seem to be too lazy to do that and they would rather have it go into a landfill. It really makes me sick when I see this sort of thing. Actually disgusted is a better word.
If I were a trashman, I would either have a lot of perfectly good things in my house for free or I would get fired because I wouldn't put something in the truck that obviously isn't trash. :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Paul Marossy on August 20, 2009, 11:29:04 AM
Quote from: MoltenVoltage on August 20, 2009, 11:27:34 AM
When you sell to the EU you have to use that crap. I find that 850 degrees F works, but you still get the occasional "tin whiskers" and have to really check every joint under a magnifying glass.
Every profession comes with risks. The guy pumping gas breathes all kinds of toxic fumes, but you don't see anyone putting the kibosh on that.
Like Steven Tyler said "It's not the cough that carries you off, it's the coffin they carry you off in!"
I haven't seen a gas station where someone actually pumps the gas for you in at least 15 years. Just an observation...
EDIT: You know, there wouldn't be the need for RoHS compliance if the world didn't have an "everything is disposable" mentality. I can't believe what I see on the curb on trash day around here. Stuff that is perfectly good and which could be given to Goodwill or something sitting there like it is trash, when it isn't. People seem to be too lazy to do that and they would rather have it go into a landfill. It really makes me sick when I see this sort of thing. Actually disgusted is a better word.
If I were a trashman, I would either have a lot of perfectly good things in my house for free or I would get fired because I wouldn't put something in the truck that obviously isn't trash. :icon_rolleyes:
New Jersey won't let you pump your own gas. Other than that I haven't seen a full serve station in years, I was a full serve attendant in high school.
You can't pump you own gas in New Jersey?! That's kind of weird. Is that some kind of whacky law they have there?
And I hope the gas is free from lead. ;D
BTW
I all of EU (I think, at least in Sweden) all the gas pumps must be fit with fume suction to eliminate the aromatic hydrocarboninte hydrfumes that comes out from the tank when you fill gas.
Oregon won't let you pump your own gas either. You actually get scolded if you try! :)
They don't use the fume recapture either like they do in California.
However it is all unleaded, they haven't sold ethyl in ages...
Generally if leaded fuel is legal at all anywhere, you have to purchase it in small bottles, usually 1q or 1/2gal at a time. Generally just used for muscle cars with higher-compression engines.
It's getting harder and harder to find though.
Most people just move to higher-octane unleaded...which you still have to buy in small bottles.
Well I would not be happy driving a car like a 454 charger with compressor and everything extra. Many bottles to get to work. :icon_mrgreen:
My own car is a Bio fuel SAAB that runs on E85 or gas. It It only consumes methanol that has been produced by sugar grown on waisted Brazilian rain forests to be environmentally safe but no lead :icon_cry:
Quote from: solderman on August 20, 2009, 04:49:51 PM
Well I would not be happy driving a car like a 454 charger with compressor and everything extra. Many bottles to get to work. :icon_mrgreen:
My own car is a Bio fuel SAAB that runs on E85 or gas. It It only consumes methanol that has been produced by sugar grown on waisted Brazilian rain forests to be environmentally safe but no lead :icon_cry:
It's usually used to supplement wimpier fuel, so you wouldn't buy a whole tankfull of the stuff :-P
Anymore, because of the changes in fuel, muscle car enthusiasts are designing their engines to run on 87 octane. That allows them to run it on just about anything available without any issues.
I'm not a Dodge guy--I'd love to have an older Corvette or possibly a 1st-gen Firebird (everyone wants a camaro--no clue why...they're nice, but everyone's got one...). No money though, and no place to store it when I'm not driving it :)
My REAL car is an '83 Mercedes 240D. D for diesel. Runs on used vegetable oil if I can ever find a source for it. Gets 40-50mpg on regular diesel. Runs like a champ, doesn't like cold weather though. Makes Indiana winters interesting :)
Quote from: solderman on August 20, 2009, 04:49:51 PM
Well I would not be happy driving a car like a 454 charger with compressor and everything extra. Many bottles to get to work. :icon_mrgreen:
My own car is a Bio fuel SAAB that runs on E85 or gas. It It only consumes methanol that has been produced by sugar grown on waisted Brazilian rain forests to be environmentally safe but no lead :icon_cry:
454 is a Chevy engine. ;)
The holy grail of muscle car engines is the 426 hemi
Now tell you you wouldn't want to drive a '71 hemi 'cuda convertible...
(http://republika.pl/blog_td_3193485/3391227/tr/nash_bridges_cuda_hemi.jpg)
Maybe with a bag over my head :-P
Huh, I didn't know that they had these sorts of gas pumping laws in effect elsewhere in the U.S., very interesting. Here in Las Vegas, every single gas station has a convenience store attached to it and it's all "self-serve". The last time I can remember a free standing gas station here where they would pump your gas and clean your windows is around 1984 or so.
Anyway, you learn something new every day.
Quote from: Paul Marossy on August 20, 2009, 07:08:50 PM
Huh, I didn't know that they had these sorts of gas pumping laws in effect elsewhere in the U.S., very interesting. Here in Las Vegas, every single gas station has a convenience store attached to it and it's all "self-serve". The last time I can remember a free standing gas station here where they would pump your gas and clean your windows is around 1984 or so.
Anyway, you learn something new every day.
And the 7-11s have video poker! A few years ago I rolled into vegas at 4:30 in the morning after playing with Branca in LA and it was still just as busy as it was at 4:30 PM. When do you people find time to sleep, what with Gil Grissom going around solving crimes, showgirls, gambling and whatnot ;D
Lead is cool. It makes things work better.
Yeah, you ever try to sink a body to the bottom of the Hudson with a bag of tin shot? It's difficult, wouldn't recommend it.
Quote from: Taylor on August 21, 2009, 08:46:51 PM
Yeah, you ever try to sink a body to the bottom of the Hudson with a bag of tin shot? It's difficult, wouldn't recommend it.
Man, you scare me Taylor...
Quote from: wavley on August 21, 2009, 09:33:40 AM
Quote from: Paul Marossy on August 20, 2009, 07:08:50 PM
Huh, I didn't know that they had these sorts of gas pumping laws in effect elsewhere in the U.S., very interesting. Here in Las Vegas, every single gas station has a convenience store attached to it and it's all "self-serve". The last time I can remember a free standing gas station here where they would pump your gas and clean your windows is around 1984 or so.
Anyway, you learn something new every day.
And the 7-11s have video poker! A few years ago I rolled into vegas at 4:30 in the morning after playing with Branca in LA and it was still just as busy as it was at 4:30 PM. When do you people find time to sleep, what with Gil Grissom going around solving crimes, showgirls, gambling and whatnot ;D
Yeah, that's another thing unique to Las Vegas. That and some kind of version of a bar at practically every street corner.
Quote from: Taylor on August 21, 2009, 08:46:51 PM
Yeah, you ever try to sink a body to the bottom of the Hudson with a bag of tin shot? It's difficult, wouldn't recommend it.
... and silver shot is only good for killing werewolves.
Lead FTW!