DIYstompboxes.com

DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 01:35:04 AM

Title: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 01:35:04 AM
You may have seen this. This is an article about Triode simulation by Dimitri Danyuk. It is very complex. Very few may understand this. But if we work on this out then may get much closer to tube sound. Even better than just fets.
Download this pdf file.
Triode Simulator
http://www.2shared.com/file/9070309/77caa019/6008.html

Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: Cliff Schecht on November 11, 2009, 03:06:09 AM
Very cool article and well presented. Not over my head either :).
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 05:12:02 AM
same here. That is why i posted here.
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: teemuk on November 11, 2009, 12:38:48 PM
Seems awfully complex for the job. You can shape the transfer curve of a FET to resemble that of a triode simply by adding negative feedback from drain to gate. All you need for that is a single resistor.  :icon_lol:

Nevertheless, it's a cool article that I've been hunting for a while. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 01:02:52 PM
anyway i give. I better buy a tube :D
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: slideman82 on November 11, 2009, 07:33:36 PM
Quote from: teemuk on November 11, 2009, 12:38:48 PM
You can shape the transfer curve of a FET to resemble that of a triode simply by adding negative feedback from drain to gate.

This is a really cool tip I'm gonna try for sure!
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: CynicalMan on November 11, 2009, 08:03:15 PM
Quote from: slideman82 on November 11, 2009, 07:33:36 PM
Quote from: teemuk on November 11, 2009, 12:38:48 PM
You can shape the transfer curve of a FET to resemble that of a triode simply by adding negative feedback from drain to gate.

This is a really cool tip I'm gonna try for sure!

Check out http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_trioderizer_a_solid_state_triode.html
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 10:58:29 PM
thanks CynicalMan.

This is atleast possible for us to try.
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 11:18:45 PM
another link from same page.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/roehrenersatz_durch_transistoren.html

But this is German.

Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: morcey2 on November 12, 2009, 11:15:07 AM
O.H. Schade did something similar with output pentodes/beam-tetrodes around 1938. 

http://www.clarisonus.com/Archives/TubeTheory/Schade%201938%20Beam%20Power%20Tubes.pdf

It starts on page 40 of the PDF, Page 359 in the book.  It retains the power of the pentode, but gives the output characteristics of a triode.   

Matt
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: puretube on November 13, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
Anybody cross-reading? (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=79283.0)
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: frequencycentral on November 13, 2009, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: puretube on November 13, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
Anybody cross-reading? (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=79283.0)

...................hahaha!
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: Cliff Schecht on November 13, 2009, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: puretube on November 13, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
Anybody cross-reading? (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=79283.0)

Perhaps?
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: morcey2 on November 13, 2009, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: Cliff Schecht on November 13, 2009, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: puretube on November 13, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
Anybody cross-reading? (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=79283.0)

Perhaps?

Nah.  Just cross-dressing.  It's Friday night after all.
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: DougH on November 13, 2009, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 01:02:52 PM
anyway i give. I better buy a tube :D

Pretty much my reaction to this kind of stuff.

For 'tube sound" I build stuff with..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
wait for it...
.
.
.
.
.
tubes...
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: Ripthorn on November 14, 2009, 01:26:42 AM
Quote from: DougH on November 13, 2009, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: ubaid88 on November 11, 2009, 01:02:52 PM
anyway i give. I better buy a tube :D

Pretty much my reaction to this kind of stuff.

For 'tube sound" I build stuff with..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
wait for it...
.
.
.
.
.
tubes...


Amen.  All it takes to emulate tube sound with those is a single component (in terms of mimicking just the triode).  I'm hooked, tubes are good at that.
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: dimitri on March 02, 2010, 11:11:15 AM
There are several typos in the paper, which don't affect final result. I can present errata for the math lovers.
No, the circuit in the paper is not the real solid state simulation of triode, it emulates soft nonlinearity. For real emulation grid current should be taken in consideration.
Yes, this is correct that tubes give best tube sound, but there is reliability question. Another issue is reproducibility (usially there are no voltage regulators in tube amps, and mains can be far away from 120V and from sine because of lighting) 
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: Paul Marossy on March 02, 2010, 12:09:04 PM
As I have always said, there is nothing better than the real thing. I guess some people are satisfied with an imitation of the real thing. But I can always tell when I'm eating some kind of sugar-free fat-free thing, it just tastes fake.  :icon_wink:

Not bashing emulations in general, some of them sound really good when recorded direct. But I don't care for them for live use, I'd much rather have the real deal.
Title: Re: The real solid state simulation of triode.
Post by: opacheco on January 04, 2014, 12:23:33 PM
Quote from: dimitri on March 02, 2010, 11:11:15 AM
There are several typos in the paper, which don't affect final result. I can present errata for the math lovers.
No, the circuit in the paper is not the real solid state simulation of triode, it emulates soft nonlinearity. For real emulation grid current should be taken in consideration.
Yes, this is correct that tubes give best tube sound, but there is reliability question. Another issue is reproducibility (usially there are no voltage regulators in tube amps, and mains can be far away from 120V and from sine because of lighting) 

dimitri, do you have more information about this??....I found some math errors in that paper too and I would like to know how you did in order to evaluate the "n" exponent because in that paper is no clear how you did use the derivation for that!...Is that a solve tracendentals equation?

Thanks a lot
Opacheco.