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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: benallison on February 18, 2010, 05:15:01 PM

Title: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 18, 2010, 05:15:01 PM
I'm due. The Ratshack pencil has melted its last!

So, I'm torn: I'll be doing mostly PCB work (pedals, preamp kits, guitar electronics, basic rework, etc), and am thinking something like the Weller WES51 would be ideal.

But, would a Weller 40 pencil be enough? I'd love to be able to spend as little as possible!
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: imbuedblue on February 18, 2010, 05:41:50 PM
Go for the WES51, or if budget is that big of a concern try this:

http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/379.html

I own both a station and two Weller pencils. I tend to use the station for most work as it is easier to control the temperature and I like the smaller conical tips. I keep a pencil in my gig repair case for emergencies and occasionally bust out the 40-watt pencil for soldering chassis grounds in amps or onto the backs of guitar pots when a larger mass tip is necessary.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: danielzink on February 18, 2010, 05:45:02 PM
Buy a station now or continue buying soldering pencils until you've spent enough to have bought a decent station..........

You can get a Xytronic 379 at Howard Electronics for 50$.......

I haven't even gotten close to replacing my first tip in a little over a year...

Dan
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 18, 2010, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: danielzink on February 18, 2010, 05:45:02 PM
Buy a station now or continue buying soldering pencils until you've spent enough to have bought a decent station..........

You can get a Xytronic 379 at Howard Electronics for 50$.......

The thing is the Weller stations more or less use a pencil, connected to a base, so I'm unclear as to what makes one better.

Quote from: danielzink on February 18, 2010, 05:45:02 PM
You can get a Xytronic 379 at Howard Electronics for 50$.......

I haven't even gotten close to replacing my first tip in a little over a year...

Is that because of using a station, or using better tips? Or cleaning them more rigorously?
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 18, 2010, 05:58:30 PM
I wanted to get the Xytronic a while back, but shipping to Canada kills it for me.

My only real options are all Weller: standalone pencil, WLC100 and the WES51.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: Taylor on February 18, 2010, 06:12:22 PM
The Radio Shack tips are really junky compared to a station's tips. The better tips (which cost about the same as the Radio Shack tips) have a special coating that keeps them from getting corroding and disintegrating. I was in your same spot for a while, wondering what makes a station so much better, then I got one and found out. I bought an Aoyue station with digital temperature readout, and it's awesome. About $50, same as the Xytronic.

So,
-tips last way longer (I haven't needed to replace the tip in the 6 months I've had it),
-the pencil is more lightweight and smaller than a one-piece iron, so handling it, getting it in tight spots is way easier.
-Having temperature control is great - you can crank up the heat and solder to audio jacks and enclosures without waiting forever.
-The iron takes just a couple of seconds to heat up instead of a minute or two.
-It actually works out the same in price as a $10 iron and a new tip every couple of weeks (depending on how much you solder)

I've been thinking for a while about upgrading to the Aoyue with a built in hot air system now that I'm doing some SMD stuff. So, if I do, I would sell my station for pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: alparent on February 18, 2010, 06:29:42 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 18, 2010, 06:12:22 PM
I've been thinking for a while about upgrading to the Aoyue with a built in hot air system now that I'm doing some SMD stuff. So, if I do, I would sell my station for pretty cheap.


OK! How much?

Before the end of March?
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: G. Hoffman on February 18, 2010, 07:06:44 PM
I can't speak for other stations, but I LOVE my two WES-51's.  (One at home, and one at work.)  One of mine is actually the WESD-51 digital version, which is a little easier to set the temperature on.  I actually think the D is worth it.


Gabriel
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: PRR on February 18, 2010, 08:24:36 PM
The Radio Shed junk is mostly junk, intended for doing one rush-job on Saturday. They used to stock the better stuff; half my solder tools are from the Shed. But it didn't sell (I got much of my stash on close-out). If you are going to USE your tool, shop elsewhere.

A -good- iron is a lifetime buy. I bought several Weller-grade handles, heaters, and tips back in the 1970s, and still use them. 99% the one handle, one heater, and now that I've semi-accepted iron-clad tips, just one tip since 1995. (The old copper tips would burn-up in a few hundred hours.) I got spares, but at this rate I'll out-live them.

Got a "temp controlled station", hated it. But this is very much a matter of taste and style. I'm a stone-age man, I like stone-age tools, as long as it is GOOD stone. Gabriel has been trained in a high-craft woodshop, appreciates a fine hand-gouge but also a router with micrometer adjustment.

It's possible to do fine work either way. But so many young guys and old experts like the temp-controlled solder stations, that you should probably try that before you hunt for the last of the good dumb irons.

Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 18, 2010, 08:27:19 PM
So something like the WLC100... how does it compare to the WES51, as far as pure soldering experience goes (bells and whistles aside)?
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: Philippe on February 18, 2010, 11:48:24 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 18, 2010, 06:12:22 PM
The Radio Shack tips are really junky...
Ditto...figure on about going through two of them just to complete a basic project.
Quote from: PRR on February 18, 2010, 08:24:36 PM
The Radio Shed junk is mostly junk, intended for doing one rush-job on Saturday.
A -good- iron is a lifetime buy. I bought several Weller-grade handles, heaters, and tips back in the 1970s, and still use them. 99% the one handle, one heater, and now that I've semi-accepted iron-clad tips, just one tip since 1995. (The old copper tips would burn-up in a few hundred hours.) I got spares, but at this rate I'll out-live them.
Those older, traditional style Weller handles/heaters/tips are sturdy & dependable over the long haul.  Trying to compare them to the current RS stuff is like...no comparison.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 18, 2010, 11:51:07 PM
Quote from: Philippe on February 18, 2010, 11:48:24 PM
Ditto...figure on about going through two of them just to complete a basic project.

Dude, I was replacing a 1/8" plug on a pair of headphones... the Radio Shack tip didn't even last for two leads. It was covered in black gunk after 5 minutes, even though I religiously cleaned the tip as a I went.

GARBAGE!
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 19, 2010, 02:21:08 PM
Well, the WES51 was $150, and the WLC100 was on sale for $50 (living in Canada blows) so I grabbed a WLC100.

We'll see how she goes! Worst case scenario: I end up buying a WES51 (or similar) down the road.

I got some tip cleaner, and the brass sponge, so I plan on taking good care of my tips.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: Renegadrian on February 19, 2010, 07:59:59 PM
I usually buy "pencils", some just don't last enough as the tip gets ruined and can't find replacements
Then I recently bought this one (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Soldering-Iron-ERGO-60.html) and it's quite good
Then also this one (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Soldering-Iron-LED-LK-30.html) and it's a good too, plus it has a replaceble tip (but I guess it will last long) and a LED to light up the board, so handy for those lat at night sessions...
Also got a station, my GF's brother got it from me, it's quite cool!!!
Here (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Profi-LS-2200-Soldering-Station.html) it is, a little cheaper then the others you suggested.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: KazooMan on February 19, 2010, 08:16:09 PM
I have been using a simple Weller pencil iron.  I also had trouble finding replacement tips and when I did I found that they cost about the same as a new iron.

So.....  I bought some 3/16" copper rod off the Internet.  I already had a set of taps and dies and found that the 10-24 threads were the right ones for the iron.  I thread one end of the rod and then cut off the proper length.  I screw it into the iron and then use a file or bench grinder to shape the tip the way I want.  Heat it up and tin it all over and I'm good to go.  I can make all the tips I need for pennies apiece.  I also can afford to make a custom shaped tip if I need to, such as a needle fine point or a curved tip that can reach under components.  The tips don't last any better than the originals that came with the iron, but I no longer care.  The thin tips burn up pretty fast, but they get the job done.

On the other hand, the stations look very nice.  I see one in my future real soon.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 20, 2010, 01:41:31 PM
Wow.

So I fired up the new iron today... WHAT A DIFFERENCE.

In the time it took me to just WARM UP the old Radioshack iron, I had FINISHED the job I was working on! 5-10 minutes. The same job took over an hour on the Radioshack iron, and the joints were horrendous.

The job was a simple headphone plug swap.

The solder flowed smoothly... the tip didn't get all gunky. I timed it and the WLC100 heated up in about 1.5 minutes.

Just a joy to work with.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: jkokura on February 21, 2010, 12:55:17 AM
The right kind of tip helps a lot to. I usually use a Weller 25 watt pencil. I can change the tips, and have probably gone through 3 or 4 since Christmas. However, today I decided to use a flathead screwdriver style tip - WOW - what a difference. I love this tip because it's waaay easier to use, keep clean, and I found myself working quicker than normal while retaining my usual anal retentive attention to detail. Fun.

I do want a station with heat control to be able to get hotter or cooler if I need. I'm sure that will help protect my tips too.

I also find it helpful to use a damp sponge not a wet one. It's much easier to clean on a damp sponge than a wet one because the extra solder stays hot and melted. A wet sponge cools the tip down too quickly and instead of having the extra solder come off, it clings to the tip when it gets cold too quickly. Damp sponge + clean often + right tip, right heat = easy soldering.

Jacob
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: benallison on February 21, 2010, 01:05:00 AM
Quote from: jkokura on February 21, 2010, 12:55:17 AMI also find it helpful to use a damp sponge not a wet one. It's much easier to clean on a damp sponge than a wet one because the extra solder stays hot and melted. A wet sponge cools the tip down too quickly and instead of having the extra solder come off, it clings to the tip when it gets cold too quickly. Damp sponge + clean often + right tip, right heat = easy soldering.

You should try one of these:

(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0031/5472/products/08965_03_l_large.jpg)

WAY better than a damp sponge. Gets the tip super clean. I find the sponge can add gunk over time. The brass sponge is killer.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: Taylor on February 21, 2010, 01:21:45 AM
Where do you get that brass sponge thing? I've wanted one but can't find it at Mouser or ebay. I suspect I'm just not calling it the right thing.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: humptydumpty on February 21, 2010, 01:44:58 AM
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6380 (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6380)


or

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.34154 (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.34154)
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: petemoore on February 21, 2010, 09:13:37 AM
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100

   I just got one of these because.
  Notice how identical it looks to the Weller on same page I'm sure you'll notice the price pop.
   I have both. The Orange one's iron is very difficult to separate from it's friends, and so the spring-dock and station like to come along for every iron use..horrible..pulls every time requires two hands to separate and re-assemble every time. It's ''3-wide'' cables of course loop and grab stuff, like anything.
  The Blue One...has bakelite fitting and shroud improvements, the iron slips out, wires can't find the iron and I haven't smelled burning insulation since, I consider this to be much safer since a wire that goes right through the spring-guard to the hot iron that'll bake right through it pretty quickly, could be carrying voltage/current.
  Orange is higher power or something, and can runaway heat it's elements, Blue one gets hotter enough for anything, but I set it at 3 oclock instead of 12 oclock.
  Hafta say the Orange one is a way overpriced, not well thought through design, and is very difficult to use, Blue ones the best deal on an Iron yet, but mine came with an ice-pick-tip, yeah I know, but I re-shaped it to have a flat/angle surface.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: JFX09 on February 21, 2010, 05:08:43 PM
I am very satisfied with my Aoyue 936 (hakko clone) It gets real hot, real fast, so i don't mind turning it off for 3 mins, it's back up in no time.

+11 for the brass shavings tip cleaner.  I have a question thought about it. Would the pads they sell 4 for a buck at the dollar store work as well as the ones they sell specifically for soldering  at 6,99 a pop at Addison ?
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: BoxOfSnoo on February 21, 2010, 07:02:08 PM
I was going to grab the WLC100 but was advised to get a good temp-controlled iron instead (apparently the WLC100 is power-controlled, not temp-controlled).  I got the WP25 for a decent price and then just got a stand with it.  It's great!  The only thing I might have done otherwise is to get the 35-watt one instead.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: BRingoC on February 21, 2010, 09:56:33 PM
The tips for the weller pencil are getting harder and harder for me to find, I can't just pop into a hardware store and buy replacements, I have to order them from mouser, though I have seen the station replacement tips available.   Also for cleaning the tips of an iron, I have never used anything myself, but isn't that sponge thing just a chore boy steel wool pad sitting inside of an ashtray?  http://www.choreboyscrubbers.com/
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: petemoore on February 21, 2010, 11:57:28 PM
  Brass doesn't need 'preserver',
  Steel wool and most other metal scourers have some kind of oil on 'em, not recommended for cleaning a soldering tip. Maybe the steel wool can be de-oiled, or the pads you see at the D-store have real brass / no oil.
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: imbuedblue on February 22, 2010, 09:50:22 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 21, 2010, 01:21:45 AM
Where do you get that brass sponge thing? I've wanted one but can't find it at Mouser or ebay. I suspect I'm just not calling it the right thing.

They are on eBay, just search "soldering tip cleaner."
Title: Re: Soldering Pencil vs Station
Post by: wavley on February 22, 2010, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: JFX09 on February 21, 2010, 05:08:43 PM
I am very satisfied with my Aoyue 936 (hakko clone) It gets real hot, real fast, so i don't mind turning it off for 3 mins, it's back up in no time.

+11 for the brass shavings tip cleaner.  I have a question thought about it. Would the pads they sell 4 for a buck at the dollar store work as well as the ones they sell specifically for soldering  at 6,99 a pop at Addison ?

+1 on the brass tip cleaner.

The Xytronic can use Hakko tips, I love my xytronic at home. It's not as nice as my work Weller WD2, but it doesn't cost near as much.