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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Al Heeley on May 28, 2010, 03:23:18 PM

Title: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Al Heeley on May 28, 2010, 03:23:18 PM
I got these tant caps (2.2uF) for a Small Clone chorus build.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/al_heeley/k22.jpg)
Now Tantalum caps are supposed to be polar, right? One leg + the other -ve, but I don't know which way round these should sit as there's no other marking on them.
I'm assuming if I get it wrong the circuit won't work.
Any advice please?
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: R.G. on May 28, 2010, 07:06:08 PM
Quote from: Al Heeley on May 28, 2010, 03:23:18 PM
I got these tant caps (2.2uF) for a Small Clone chorus build.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/al_heeley/k22.jpg)
Now Tantalum caps are supposed to be polar, right? One leg + the other -ve, but I don't know which way round these should sit as there's no other marking on them.
I'm assuming if I get it wrong the circuit won't work.
Any advice please?
You assume correctly. Tantalums are much less tolerant of reversed voltage than aluminum - and aluminum hardly tolerates it at all. Tantalum start failing at a slightly higher reverse voltage than aluminum, but it's more spectacular when it does fail. Put it in backwards, it will fail. I've never seen a NP tantalum, not that there can't be.

The only thing I can think of is that one leg is bent/kinked a little different from the other. However, that will be small comfort.

The big guys used to have problems with tantalum caps going up in flames on well-powered logic boards. So much so that they had the makers of tantalum make three legged devices where the outer caps were one polarity, the middle one the other polarity, so it could not be put in backwards without bending the leads around.

I'd get my  supplier to tell me what the super secret markings are, or get a refund. On average, you'll kill half of them.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Brymus on May 28, 2010, 09:15:09 PM
Isnt the negative lead supposed to be shorter than the positive one ?
Did you cut the leads already ?
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Steve Mavronis on May 28, 2010, 10:04:39 PM
'Polarized' tantalums are supposed to be marked which lead is + like this one:

(http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~jkoch/prototype/cap_tantalum_closeup.jpg)
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Brymus on May 28, 2010, 10:15:05 PM
Quote from: Steve Mavronis on May 28, 2010, 10:04:39 PM
'Polarized' tantalums are supposed to be marked which lead is + like this one:

(http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~jkoch/prototype/cap_tantalum_closeup.jpg)
So are you saying his are non polarized ?
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Steve Mavronis on May 28, 2010, 10:48:58 PM
I don't know, maybe? My only recent experience are with the polarized ones. Hopefully someone else can chime in to clarify if his are or not to help him.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: zombiwoof on May 28, 2010, 10:56:15 PM
I'm sure the bent lead is supposed to indicate polarity, the obvious problem is that one doesn't know exactly which polarity it indicates.  There should be some way to figure it out, but I don't know enough to tell you.

Al
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Al Heeley on May 29, 2010, 02:48:36 AM
the legs havent been snipped - they are all like this. I have heard you can get non-polarised ones but the circuit calls for polarised. Surprised theres no markings, other types of tant caps I bought before have the tiny + sign on them. Maybe I can just use an electrolytic cap instead? Its the tonepad small clone circuit, cap in question is top left on the layout.
http://tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=97
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Hides-His-Eyes on May 29, 2010, 05:46:17 AM
I'd just assume the kink is on the negative; not because of any prior knowledge, just because on an LED the flat side is negative, and so if I was a manufacturer, I'd "mark the -ve side".
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Unlikekurt on May 29, 2010, 06:19:01 AM
If you read the build reports on tonepad site for the small clone you'll see that a lot of folks have done that build without polarized caps and had no problem. 
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: slacker on May 29, 2010, 06:36:36 AM
Semi serious suggestion, like R.G. said you've got a 50/50 chance of putting it in the right way round, so just slap it in there. If it explodes, then replace it with an electro if it doesn't then every thing's groovy :)
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Al Heeley on May 29, 2010, 09:50:35 AM
Thx guys, I'll shove it in and see what happens. What I hate is when it doesn't work, is it down to the cap or some other problem like a poor solder somewhere else....the joys of debugging. At least if I know all compnents are correct and right way round I can narrow down the debugging.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Unlikekurt on May 30, 2010, 08:58:40 AM
Have you a multimeter that can measure capacitance?
If so, you might have a solution right there.  It'll only read in the correct direction.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: GibsonGM on May 30, 2010, 09:16:27 AM
I'm gonna take a stab at it...I think the 'kinky' leg, on the right, is "+".   Don't ask me why I don't think it's "-"....
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: CynicalMan on May 30, 2010, 09:27:37 AM
It might just be the photo angle, but it looks as if there was a third leg, like RG mentioned, and it was broken off.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: waltk on May 30, 2010, 10:51:44 AM
QuoteThe only thing I can think of is that one leg is bent/kinked a little different from the other.

If I had to make a guess, I'd go with R.G. on this.  Also...

QuoteI'm gonna take a stab at it...I think the 'kinky' leg, on the right, is "+".

My guess is - just the oposite.  Because the longer lead is generally the + one, and in the absence of other evidence, a greater "kink" would make a leg shorter, I would guess the kinkier one is the negative lead.

I also have some evidence for this.  I have some tantalum caps that ARE marked, and have one leg more kinked, and the kinked leg IS negative.

I have large stock of 35V 2.2uF tantalum caps (measuring 2.21 uF .012 Q @ 1000Hz) that are marked.  If you live in the US, PM me with your address, and I'll put some in an envelope for you (gratis).
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: waltk on May 30, 2010, 11:14:36 AM
QuoteI have large stock of 35V 2.2uF tantalum caps (measuring 2.21 uF .012 Q @ 1000Hz) that are marked.

Quick clarification the "Q" mentioned above is actually the dissipation factor (inverse of Q).  The low DF in these is desirable.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: stringsthings on June 03, 2010, 01:20:31 AM
Quote from: Al Heeley on May 29, 2010, 02:48:36 AM
the legs havent been snipped - they are all like this. I have heard you can get non-polarised ones but the circuit calls for polarised. Surprised theres no markings, other types of tant caps I bought before have the tiny + sign on them. Maybe I can just use an electrolytic cap instead? Its the tonepad small clone circuit, cap in question is top left on the layout.
http://tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=97

i believe that you can use an aluminum electrolytic in place of a tantalum electrolytic .... just match the capacitance value and the voltage rating ... ( you can always use one that's rated at a higher voltage )
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Al Heeley on June 03, 2010, 03:17:16 AM
just bought some 'proper' polarised tant caps, now trying to get my small clone debugged.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: Ice-9 on June 03, 2010, 05:24:02 AM
I would just wire it to a battery and leave it to pop somewhere safe of course, (if it's the wrong way) this way you will know for the rest of the caps which lead is which.
Title: Re: Tantalum cap help
Post by: R.G. on June 03, 2010, 09:06:45 AM
Quote from: stringsthings on June 03, 2010, 01:20:31 AM
i believe that you can use an aluminum electrolytic in place of a tantalum electrolytic .... just match the capacitance value and the voltage rating ... ( you can always use one that's rated at a higher voltage )
Yes, you can. However, if the circuit needs the low ESR that tantalum gives you, it won't work as well.

Quote from: Ice-9 on June 03, 2010, 05:24:02 AM
I would just wire it to a battery and leave it to pop somewhere safe of course, (if it's the wrong way) this way you will know for the rest of the caps which lead is which.
That makes the presumption that the kinked lead or the printing is really consistently a marker for the polarity. If they aren't, then you're still going to have 50% fallout if they're random.

However, for a limited number, you can also connect them to a battery one by one and mark them individually the way that they didn't blow up. :icon_biggrin: