This thread is here to keep all information on my latest delay project in one place. There is already some information spread out over various topics. (if you search for binson or look in the pictures thread)
I will be happy to answer all questions here. I'm not sure if I will be releasing a full schematic, because basically, I don't have that yet.
I'll try to do a short write up during the course of this day.
A small preview on what it sounds like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26lLAmFi5t0
And this is what it looks like.
(http://www.friedair.com/images/deck3.jpg)
(http://www.friedair.com/images/deck4.jpg)
Wow! I would be interested to see the schematic, to see how it works.
Heftig ding, Arnoud!
Let me say it sgain in this thread: Awesome job, man!
I just watched the video.. It sounds really, really cool! 8)
Dare I make a small cosmetic suggestion? I think you should get some nicer screws arround the rubber buttons-- either black screws or at least some nicer screw-heads. ;)
Quote from: Zero on July 23, 2010, 04:46:31 AM
Dare I make a small cosmetic suggestion? I think you should get some nicer screws arround the rubber buttons-- either black screws or at least some nicer screw-heads. ;)
Yes, I plan to do that. I'm still looking for M3 black imbus bolts.. ~25 mm long. Anyone?
Delay section
This is the right hand print you see in the gutshots. This print contains four PT2399 ic's and four quad JFET input opamps
Each delay section is based on the rebote 2.5 except that I dropped all filtering at first and made them allpass stages.
You can see this in the image below. I decided that the delay sections should be in series, to enable individual delay time control.
The other option would be parallel. This would be less noisy, but gives you a shorter max delay time. Now the max delay time is the sum of the max delay times of four stages. Plus it ise easy to get the four quick equally spaced repeats by just setting all head time pots to the minimum.
(http://www.friedair.com/images/delay-stage.jpg)
This turned out to be too noisy, so I added the (rebote) MFB filter at the output of each stage. (in the red square)
You can see them in the pic. They are the four small perfboards hovering over the print
If you look at the rebote 2.5 pdf from tonepad you can see a schematic of the opamp section of the pt2399.
I'm speaking of the filtering after the delay-out node. So the image above is just an indication.
The direct_out line is connected to the input of each subsequent stage. Except of course the first stage taking its input from the clean/feedback mixer.
In the last stage direct_out is not used.
For each delay section there is a buffered output for both playback and feedback. These outputs are fed to the MAX395 analog switch IC and from there to the mixer circuitry
The feedback is mixed in at the input of the first delay stage after some filtering and level control.
The playback signals are mixed and filtered, then fed into a SM2166 set up as a downward expander only (it can compress too, but I set the ratio to 1:1).
This is to surpress all noise when there is no delayed sound present.
I have tried companding around the delay stages too, but that did not improve things much.
The noise I heard sounds more like white noise then high hissing. So any suggestions in this area are welcome.
The left hand print has all signal mixing. The small print stuck to the side is the (sine)modulation LFO (modulating only the first delay stage, interesting options possible here)
The large perf board inside has the arduino on it and a CD4015 SIPO shift register for the LED's. Plus it contains the button detection circuitry (simple voltage divider )
That's it for now. A bit of a messy walkthrough, but I hope it makes sense.
I will start making an improved version. Especially focusing on the delay stages and the power supply. As you can see I have voltage dividers for each delay stage as wel as a 78L05 for each delay stage. I should be able to use the 5V regulated as a Vref there and only use one 78L05 for two PT2399's
This will reduce current consumption a bit ( currently around 160mA !! ).
Excellent idea, great work. Very inspiring.
what size box is that?
Wow! Really great pedal. I have three vintage Echolette tape echos, and the sound of your pedal is pretty darn close to the sound of the '60s machines.
Is this a labor of love, or a potential for profit venture to sell them? If it's the former I too would love to see a schematic and layout to have a crack at a build.
Quote from: aziltz on July 23, 2010, 01:37:17 PM
what size box is that?
10 bucks says 1590DD. I've used them for projects, and it looks identical in shape and size.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on July 23, 2010, 04:12:51 PM
Quote from: aziltz on July 23, 2010, 01:37:17 PM
what size box is that?
10 bucks says 1590DD. I've used them for projects, and it looks identical in shape and size.
Jacob
Looks a little deep to be a 1590DD doesn't it? Looks more like a 1590D, similar dimensions but 2" deep.
Yeah thanks Arph for th erun down.
I hope too you post a final version when you get a chance.
Thats the same vid from the Binson thread isnt it ?
I was expecting a short bit of "Lucifer Sam" ;)
But yeah sounds very promising,for all us Floyd fanatics. (and time travelers)
The box is the hammond D indeed. I'm still planning on a good PCB design so I can fit it inside a DD.
I listened to that first floyd album for the first time in my life ..erm.. thursday. :icon_redface: It still has to grow on me I guess ::)
I'll check lucifer sam and see if it can do that sound too.
My favorite band is interpol and they are very delay/reverby too.
This one is for Brymus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD9kGnulGrw
man that sounds awesome !!!
...I really need to build this one ! (but I just don't know how :icon_redface:)
Please post the pcb and layout (please ! please! please!!!)
Pierre
This is definitely the best effect I've seen on this site in the last year or so.
Great job, ~arph!!
And if you're willing to share... dank je wel! :icon_cool:
Quote from: ~arph on July 24, 2010, 11:35:00 AM
This one is for Brymus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD9kGnulGrw
Nice !!!
That made my day,thanks Arph !!
I really hope you find the time and will to do a full schematic. I'd really appreciate it :D
Great job.
Hi guys,
Yes I'm seriously considering doing a full schem and PCB release. Also I might do a batch of PCB's and sell them here if there is enough interest. Please give me some time as this is the most complex PCB I ever did. Right now the two separate pcbs are single sided with some jumpers, but I'd like to make this double sided so I can fit in the led driver and the lfo.
I will release the schematic first because I also like this boards professional members to have a look at it and point out errors and improvements. It is rather thrown together.
I'd buy one! ;D
I would certainly be up for this build. I honestly had dreams about it all night :o. Congratulations, you've rekindled my love of diy pedals ;).
This is the block diagram ~arph had posted in one of my threads about the echorec with pt2399's. I had mine a little more than halfway done, but now that ~arph has finished his, I feel the need to change mine totally around to look more like his :icon_lol:
~arph's block diagram
(http://www.newtone-online.nl/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3519.0;attach=4385;image)
Notes are that the compander/expander are gone and replaced with a downward expander.
Care to explain what you are using for F1/2, what is C1 and what you are doing for mixing? You have been so much more than kind with sharing all this info. I can't imagine the amount of time it will take to make the layouts and schematics.. this thing is HUGE :icon_lol: Luckly my head schematics weren't to different from yours. The switching still has me totally baffled though.
yes that diagram is what I started off with, and I have to redo it because it is not what I ended up with. F1 for instance is nothing but a simple low pass filter, and it is now afer C1, which is the feedback level control. The Comp stage is gone.
F2 is the SWTC2 from jack orman with values 10k 39k and 10nF and a 250k pot. Mixing is just a simple summing amplifier stage. Ala the mixer from GGG.
Really great project!
I love the sounds that you are getting out of this!
Very very cool project!
i'm up for a pcb if it gets to that stage. plus more info around the button matrix, I'm just not getting how that works.
such a nice job too. wow
Here is how the button interface works.
Each button switches between 0 and 5 volts. The output of that (0 volts when not pressed, 5 volts when pressed) goes into a voltage divider where all buttons are connected. Like this:
but 1 --[ 1k ]-----|
but 2 --[ 3k9 ]-----|
but 3 --[ 5k6 ]-----|
but 4 --[ 8k2 ]-----|
but 5 --[ 10k ]-----|---- voltage out
but 6 --[ 27k ]-----|
but 7 --[ 39k ]-----|
but 8 --[ 56k ]-----|
GND --[ 10k ]-----|
This way each button press will give a different voltage at the voltage out. So Depending on the voltage I can identify which button was pressed.
The voltage out goes to one of the arduinio's analog inputs. In the arduino I have eight voltage windows set up, by trial and error. Each read analog value is compared to this table of values to determine the pressed button.
This setup also means that you can only press one button at a time, but that's not a big deal to me. You could use the digital inputs on the arduino to detect individual buttons too. this would be a bit more reliable.I chose this because of the fact that I want to control the leds separately too. Plus I have to do the switching. And finally I wanted to keep i/o pins for future MIDI control (easy too with the arduino)
The LED's are switched on and of using a CD4015 serial in parallel out shift register. I shift in the desired byte and all 1's light up an 0's dont. The same byte is shifted into the MAX395 to switch on the corresponding heads for playback and feedback. The only difference is that the MAX395 has a Chip select option so you can shift in the byte and then load the swithces in one pulse.
With the led's you can see the byte being shifted through the register (not obvious at all, because of the clock rate)
note that with the 4015 you have to connect one input and one output and share a clock line as this is actually two four bit sipo's in one IC.
The first four bits set the playback heads and the last four the feedback heads. So if I want to playback using heads 2 and 4 and feedback on head 4 I shift out this byte: 01010001
That is actually all there is to it. The clock pulses, data lines and CS signals for the max and 4015 come from digital outputs on the ardiuno.
One nice feature of the arduino is that it has an EEPROM where you can store bytes. So if the device is switched of, and later on again it will restore to the last selected head setting.
thanks, i didn't realise you had an arduino in there. a mate of mine is building a robot arm for animation with one of those controlling it.
I'm keen to build one of these, been looking for a larger project to sink my teeth into.
i guess the updated block diagram with all the bits labeled will make this a bit easier to organise, tho it will take me so long to put the pieces together I should just sit back and wait for developments. love your work.
i just bought an arduino and was about to make an echo base... i think my plans have just changed.
I for one would love to see Arph put together a kit for sale.
I really doubt that was his intentions when he made this,but the result is just so cool.
A PCB,and the less common components altogether would be very nice to get all at once.
I know I would get one when the funds came available for me to do so.
Thanks a lot for giving us an overview! I see that you are going to optimize it for later versions, it looks like you can bring it down quite a bit.
I'm pretty sure you can bring the 5V regulators all together as long as you keep a small bypass cap near each PT2399 and digital chip, along with careful PCB layout like separating digital and analog grounds. Also, the buffering TL074's can be shrunk as well, do you really need that much buffering? The op amp in the PT2399 should keep the signal strong enough to go through the switching chips and spread into the mixers but I didn't build it so I can't say I have the experience there :icon_confused: Did you put the buffering in as a precaution or did you experience problems without it?
Also, for structural advice perhaps once the board is optimized you can use spacers to mount the entire PCB to the button board's 6 screws, so it is like a circuit sandwich. I'm not really sure how you did it since I can't see behind the perf. Looks like you can shrink the board space down to a final 30% or so of what you currently use, if you sacrifice the easy to work with nicely spaced layout you have. (maybe resort to upright resistors... or SMD! :icon_biggrin:)
For connecting the button boards to the main board, I see that there are four holes on three sides... There is a method I saw on a circuit sandwich before where they used long pin breakaway headers to connect the top board to the bottom board (think having a hole in the same place on each board and running a wire between them vertically, but with nice looking headers. It's not easy to take apart but it looks really nice. Too bad the button pins aren't all on one side, that would make it much easier to just run a 12-pin header....
Anyways I hope I don't come off as nitpicking or anything just giving suggestions. Like I said, you did an awesome job.
Quote from: JKowalski on July 26, 2010, 06:59:11 PM
Thanks a lot for giving us an overview! I see that you are going to optimize it for later versions, it looks like you can bring it down quite a bit.
I'm pretty sure you can bring the 5V regulators all together as long as you keep a small bypass cap near each PT2399 and digital chip, along with careful PCB layout like separating digital and analog grounds. Also, the buffering TL074's can be shrunk as well, do you really need that much buffering? The op amp in the PT2399 should keep the signal strong enough to go through the switching chips and spread into the mixers but I didn't build it so I can't say I have the experience there :icon_confused: Did you put the buffering in as a precaution or did you experience problems without it?
Thank you for thinking with me. I checked the max current rating coming out of the 5v regulator and calculated that I could in theory power all pt2399's on a single regulator, but I want to be safe so I doubled all values so I would need one regulator for each two PT2399's. Also bear in mind that the arduino runs on 5V as well. Right now it shares a regulator with one of the PT2399's. So in the end I might cut it down to two/three regulators. OR: 1 regulator into a voltage follower, if that can supply more current.
As for the buffering, yes, I did try it without and let me explain why it is needed. When no buffering is used, the feedback and playback lines are tied together. This would mean that if you select for example heads 1 and 2 for playback, those two feedback points are connected too (through some resistors) This is fine if you then select head 3 or 4 for feedback, but if you select 1 or 2 you will allways select both 1 and 2. The feedback will self oscillate. Now imagine doing that with four playback heads (wich you will use a lot). So the buffers are there to ensure proper playback/feedback functionality.
Quote
Also, for structural advice perhaps once the board is optimized you can use spacers to mount the entire PCB to the button board's 6 screws, so it is like a circuit sandwich. I'm not really sure how you did it since I can't see behind the perf. Looks like you can shrink the board space down to a final 30% or so of what you currently use, if you sacrifice the easy to work with nicely spaced layout you have. (maybe resort to upright resistors... or SMD! :icon_biggrin:)
Oh yes there is lots of space to be won there, but the other two boards are really tight. I have to add four filters to the delay board too.
The perf is that big because of a few reasons. One being where the pins from the sparkfun boards come off. Second it houses the arduino. (you can see its little pin header sticking over the edge of the perf)
Quote
For connecting the button boards to the main board, I see that there are four holes on three sides... There is a method I saw on a circuit sandwich before where they used long pin breakaway headers to connect the top board to the bottom board (think having a hole in the same place on each board and running a wire between them vertically, but with nice looking headers. It's not easy to take apart but it looks really nice. Too bad the button pins aren't all on one side, that would make it much easier to just run a 12-pin header....
Yes it has four times four pins for the leds and switches, plus a few power supply/ground pins. I don't think I'll fix it to the main board using headers. I want to keep them mechanically separated. (same for the pots) You can put the voltage diver resistors on the sparkfun board. So you'd only need two wires for the button detection and five for the leds.
I'm not sure if I will do kits, and if I do them I'm not sure if I will do kits including the uncommon parts, as they are as hard to find for me as anyone else (I got them of ebay).
I'm thinking about learning Designspark, as with eagle I'm limited now to the free versions board size.
Just posting here to subscribe. I will be buying a PCB when they're available, for sure. Really cool project, congrats.
Quote from: Taylor on July 28, 2010, 04:27:17 AM
Just posting here to subscribe. I will be buying a PCB when they're available, for sure. Really cool project, congrats.
Same Here! Though you're speaking a different language than me ha!!
great project Arph,
Coun't me in for a PCB.
Ronald
count me in too...
Good to see there is interst in this. I'm still not sure if there will be pcb's available, bear that in mind.
Small update,
Fellow forum member Jarno was so kind to send me a few black imbus bolts. Now it looks even better.
(http://www.friedair.com/images/imbussed.jpg)
Sweet :)
Hey I've got all the schematics together and most of the board layouts done.. maybe you could check if they 'look enough like yours' when they are done? :icon_mrgreen: :-*
Sure no problem!
You should breadboard it first, to check if it works properly. I've been pondering all week on how I can improve my current design I think I'll order some pt2399's again and start experimenting with filtering in the delay stages again. I want to get rid of the downward expander as that is a component pretty hard to come by. Also I want to improve the button response. Sometimes now when you press one button another will switch off and another two will switch on. Especially when the pedal is chained with other fx on the same supply (the button switching is voltage dependent)
Meanwhile check this 6 pt2399's in parallel reverb design. (it also holds hints on how the belton module works..)
http://sites.google.com/site/analogcustomkits/Home/reverb-digital
Quote from: ~arph on July 30, 2010, 08:01:31 AM
Sure no problem!
You should breadboard it first, to check if it works properly. I've been pondering all week on how I can improve my current design I think I'll order some pt2399's again and start experimenting with filtering in the delay stages again. I want to get rid of the downward expander as that is a component pretty hard to come by. Also I want to improve the button response. Sometimes now when you press one button another will switch off and another two will switch on. Especially when the pedal is chained with other fx on the same supply (the button switching is voltage dependent)
Meanwhile check this 6 pt2399's in parallel reverb design. (it also holds hints on how the belton module works..)
http://sites.google.com/site/analogcustomkits/Home/reverb-digital
Dang it Arnoud! I have to buy about 15 pt2399s now! ;D
I've got a question for ya. You are using pins 3, 9-13 to control the LED and switching IC, then the 8 way voltage divider going into pin 0, and are reporting problems because of fluctuating power conditions.
Would it be more reliable to have a dedicated pin for each button? That way no matter how the power supply is fluctuating, a high and low can be read that won't change? Each button can be set to a digital pin, so say 2-10 are the 8 buttons. That doesn't leave enough pins for the max395 and the 4015, but the max395 datasheet says they can easily be piggybacked. Send the clock, data and cs out of pins 11-13, piggy back one 395 off the other and connect the corresponding LED - button to the same switch in each 395 and... there you go? Would that work better?
Also, did you look at any of the filtering they are doing the BYOC ping-pong delay? I haven't looked yet, but I built one about a year ago and I remember that when the chips are in series, there wasn't any noise. Maybe there will be more hints to better filtering in that schematic.
Oh yes it is definately possible to use the digital inputs for the buttons (debounce them programattically) and still be able to control the leds and max395. Your solution is the right one. both being serial shift registers you can just shift 16 bits instead of 8.
I chose this way initally because that leaves me with a lot of options. MIDI for instance.. or use digital pots for everything and store favorite settings.
I havent looked at the byoc filtering, will have a look. I uess its the same as all pt2399 based fx filtering out there. two mfb's
regards,
Arnoud
PS. I have a microphone now ;D
Hey ~arph, is this the schematic you used for the downward expander?
(http://www.muzique.com/ssm2166.gif)
and do you know what value you used to get 1:1? I couldn't find any reference to what it would be on the datasheet, because I guess it is variable, depending on the input. If that is the schematic you used, what did you do with the 'rotation pt adj' control? I can't seem to figure out what that even does.
Another question for you, and this seems ridiculous, but I've never actually used an arduino outside of the development board, so what do I still need to hook up to get the chip to work? Just the 5v, or do I need the crystal and all the other stuff?
Thanks! I'm getting close to finishing my schematics/layouts, then it's off the breadboard!
basically yes.. though I used fixed values for R3,4 and R7,8 for 1:1 you make R6 0 ohms (gnd)
For the arduino, depending on which one you got you only need to power it. If you got a duamilanove, you can power it with 5-15v I believe.. there is a
regulator on board.
No other components required.
Regards,
Arnoud
Quote from: ~arph on August 10, 2010, 02:19:45 AM
basically yes.. though I used fixed values for R3,4 and R7,8 for 1:1 you make R6 0 ohms (gnd)
Awesome, thanks!
Quote from: ~arph on August 10, 2010, 02:19:45 AM
For the arduino, depending on which one you got you only need to power it. If you got a duamilanove, you can power it with 5-15v I believe.. there is a
regulator on board.
No other components required.
Regards,
Arnoud
Wait... I can't just take the ATmega chip off the board (I do have the duemilanove) and use the chip alone in the circuit? I really need to get into this arduino thing >:(
EDIT: Huh, I suppose I can't. This is the last piece of my 'based on Arnoud's Echodeck' delay! I've been doing small boards, with the ins, outs, powers, etc all on a 0.1" grid. Then a larger perf board with all the smaller boards put on, so they would be secure, and wires/solder joints connecting them together. I think the only mods I'm doing are external relay switching, adding a belton reverb (I already have one sitting around, so might as well), and a switchable LFO between the standard and a clari(not) based one. Can't wait! Thanks so much Arnoud!
You can it you then have a separate crystal and regulator on the board you're going to place it on.. I'm considering this too.
I'm looking forward to see how your design turns out! The belton is a nice touch (that woudl really give you some cavernous sounds)
this is what the youtube videos should sound like:
http://www.friedair.com/audio/echodeck1.mp3
Strat(bridge pu) -> echodeck -> Fender hotrod -> mic -> computer
Hi Arnoud,
Very cool project!
I stumbled across this forum via the david gilmour gear forum.
I've been looking for a pedal like this for ages! I would defenitely want the boards for this if you decided to make some.
Maybe you could even give a bill of materials and where to get them. Especially for the not so common parts like the head selector buttons.
How about adding a 'magic eye' indicator? That would look awesome.
I would probably make an echorack version of this. With a plexi front ant lit lettering..
thank you very much for this project!
Len
Quote from: ~arph on August 11, 2010, 03:11:18 PM
this is what the youtube videos should sound like:
http://www.friedair.com/audio/echodeck1.mp3
Strat(bridge pu) -> echodeck -> Fender hotrod -> mic -> computer
Wow that sounds really amazing.
You were right the You Tube video wasnt doing it justice, ;D
Are you going to release PCB's and BOM for this?
I want to, but it will take a lot of time.
Excellent work, great sound! :o
I'd be also highly interested in a schem an maybe even a pcb.
T.
Oh boy, half a year since the last post. This thing is still on my radar. I recently accuired the real deal (binson echorec export) it was a malfunctioning unit. After a cap job and some wire replacement it stopped smoking and now it runs fine ;D
Meanwhile I have been tinkering with the button interface and am ready to replace the arduino I used with a single DIP8 ATTiny85. New feature will be that you can store four preset head states.
I also discovered that most of the noise issues I have come from the mixing stage! So I hope to drop the noise gate in favor of PCB space. Together with the recent developements on PT2399 noise reduction I have enough material to start on version 2.0. I figure it'll take me another six months again, maybe longer as I have lots of other stuff happening (becoming a dad is one of them).
Stay tuned!
( meanwhile check out my sentinel! :P I'm sorry if I've bored you with it before..I just feel it deserves some more views)
Quote from: ~arph on July 18, 2011, 09:27:35 AM
Oh boy, half a year since the last post. This thing is still on my radar. I recently accuired the real deal (binson echorec export) it was a malfunctioning unit. After a cap job and some wire replacement it stopped smoking and now it runs fine ;D
Meanwhile I have been tinkering with the button interface and am ready to replace the arduino I used with a single DIP8 ATTiny85. New feature will be that you can store four preset head states.
I also discovered that most of the noise issues I have come from the mixing stage! So I hope to drop the noise gate in favor of PCB space. Together with the recent developements on PT2399 noise reduction I have enough material to start on version 2.0. I figure it'll take me another six months again, maybe longer as I have lots of other stuff happening (becoming a dad is one of them).
yeah!.... ...what would be those? :icon_eek:
btw, badass sentinel... are you using there just one pt2399?
You're such a tease! :D
Search for a recent thread with PT2399 in it.. called something like "how to shhut up your pt2399 based pedals once and for all'
It's still experimental and tere seem to be varying results. But it comes down to this. Tie the delay resistor to digital gnd (pin 4) instead of analog ground and keep pins 3 and 4 disconnected. They are internally connected through a 10R resistor.
Sentinel -> yes a single pt2399 with carefully balanced (max) feedback. Quiet a simple design really, but there are some tricks like DC coupled LFO modulation and unequal caps on pin 8 and 9.
Subscribing to this crazy awesomeness.
Thanks a bunch.
:)
Quote from: ~arph on July 19, 2011, 02:21:29 AM
Search for a recent thread with PT2399 in it.. called something like "how to shhut up your pt2399 based pedals once and for all'
It's still experimental and tere seem to be varying results. But it comes down to this. Tie the delay resistor to digital gnd (pin 4) instead of analog ground and keep pins 3 and 4 disconnected. They are internally connected through a 10R resistor.
Sentinel -> yes a single pt2399 with carefully balanced (max) feedback. Quiet a simple design really, but there are some tricks like DC coupled LFO modulation and unequal caps on pin 8 and 9.
Cool shit
I remember proto'ing the rebote for first time... couldnt get enough of nano short delay settings, glad you took that direction
i hear in there some distortion (along with drones) as well, sounds like germs on the feedback path+resistor, i could be wrong tho
btw in that shut up pt2399 thread i posted my experience with that mod... nothing besides the usual occured ::) but, as i also wrote there, there has to be a convention on what noise are we taking off... because badly filtered rebotes/power sources will probably improve on that mod, i think thats the reason of "mixed results"
Yes there is some distortion, but that was due to clipping my mic ;D The drones are what makes this effect so interesting, One of the controls is a 500R delay pot so you can vary the drone frequency.
The noise solution might be of benefit here as the original poster tested it on a sewer pipes build, this (sentinel) is a similar thing.
The noise I have here is the noise that starts when sound goes through and stops when it gets quiet. (also mentioned in that thread I believe)
Just subscribed to your Youtube channel, as that Sentinel sounds great! Right up my alley.
Any chance you'll be making that available as a project while we wait for the Echodeck?
Not sure yet, I think I will I owe this place so much
QuotePosted by: ~arph
Insert Quote
Oh boy, half a year since the last post. This thing is still on my radar. I recently accuired the real deal (binson echorec export) it was a malfunctioning unit. After a cap job and some wire replacement it stopped smoking and now it runs fine Grin
Meanwhile I have been tinkering with the button interface and am ready to replace the arduino I used with a single DIP8 ATTiny85. New feature will be that you can store four preset head states.
I also discovered that most of the noise issues I have come from the mixing stage! So I hope to drop the noise gate in favor of PCB space. Together with the recent developements on PT2399 noise reduction I have enough material to start on version 2.0. I figure it'll take me another six months again, maybe longer as I have lots of other stuff happening (becoming a dad is one of them).
Stay tuned!
( meanwhile check out my sentinel! Tongue I'm sorry if I've bored you with it before..I just feel it deserves some more views)
That's amazing!! Layout, pcb, schem, vero, ...something? :icon_mrgreen:
Seriously, that Sentinel sounds stellar, not to mention it looks significantly less complex than an Echodeck! Are PCBs available for purchase yet? Don't go and tease us with a sick video and then skip out on the info, man! :D
It would be even wickeder if it did flanger, as suggested in another PT2399 thread.
the sentenel and the echodeck are both sick. +1 on PCB's for both projects :icon_lol:
Haha, have you seen the guts of the echodeck? that'll take some time to get it properly done.
As for the sentinel, I'm still putting in the final touches. I don't think I'll do a layout here as the one I use is double sided. Might post a schematic though when it's done.
Quote from: asatbluesboy on July 19, 2011, 01:20:12 PM
It would be even wickeder if it did flanger, as suggested in another PT2399 thread.
Maybe someday, but it'll be a completely different project..
First I'll do project that is based on this mad contraption:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8YU9onbfVI
Keep on truckin! I'd love to see a project for this, it is one of the two remaining pedal projects that I care about (the ludwig phase II being the other)!
Just passing by today and notice this thread, I'm planing to make one of this stuffs, either but using BBD to make a "dual head delay" in series, or two or more pt2399. And when I found this, wow! but now the best part... how are the connections between each module done? Waiting to see the schematics!
greetings from PT
I actually started working on mine again. I've isolated certain parts of the binson echorec 2 (preamp, input mixer, feedback mixer, tone control and output mixer) and plan to apply them here. 3 tubes.. high voltage.. pt2399 :D
But I'm still going to keep the awesome switches!
You could post some schematics :)
tube buffer is also a great ideia, i've made once the real mctube and the distortion of it rules. Perhaps with some changes I could turn it into a overdrive or just a simple buffer, but in tube ;D
For the switches i'll use relays perhaps but if my inspiration is up, controlled by a pic and a lcd display :icon_biggrin:
Sorry, no schematic. The ones I have are not good enough. Too many design flaws that need to be ironed out first.
Just wondering how switching is done, you use delays in series or parallel? I'm about to buy some pt2399 to make some tests...
His switching is done by an Arduino and his delays are in series all set for the same delay time, if I recall correctly.
Quote from: mth5044 on May 09, 2012, 03:50:21 PM
His switching is done by an Arduino and his delays are in series all set for the same delay time, if I recall correctly.
Thanks!
A friend of mine is about to borrow-me a arduino... a good way to start :)
Let's hope we can get schematics for this toy soon...!
I've made up quite a few, but none are complete or tested, and they take some fixin to get legible, but the concept itself isn't too hard.
Four PT2399 'heads' encased in a feedback loop surrounded by a blend control, essentially. Tone control, compander, etc, optional. You don't have to use an arduino for switching, ~arph did it to control the switching array, but it's just as easy as using 8 spst switches.
Yes, using SPDT switches it looks more "vintage". I'm also thinking in using also a PIC with a LCD just for fun, could use memory banks for presets etc etc.
;D
Correct. Except that you can still set all delay times with a pot. At minimum they are all equal (set by precision trimmers). The uC switching can indeed be replaced by simple switches. I actually did that to test the concept. Look at the magnus modulus for the modulation part. (I use a different LFO, but that doesn't really matter). I only modulate the first PT2399 delay stage.
Now I'd replace the arduino with just the uC. But as there is a arduino nano in there the footprint doesn't really matter.
In a future to come version of a "binson rec" I was wondering using digital pot's, controlled via software of the pic to set the time for each head, the amount of regeneration, LFO etc. But that will miss all the fun of making something with a look and feel more "vintage".
Buffer with tube it's on his way, if weekend allows i'll post some stuff here :)
greetings!
I've done a lot of stupid things in my life... and this is one of them.
The outerworkings.. preamp, mix, tone, and 3 mixers :icon_lol:
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg114/mth5044/SC.png)
Pretty simple, actually. I'll be surprised if it works!
Need to resurrect this thread ;)
It was too good to let it die.
Any word on a 'final' schematic and/or board layout???
Not a single word sadly.. It's been collecting dust ever since I started on improving the button interface. :-X about a year ago.. I will get around to it someday..
Quote from: ~arph on March 04, 2013, 09:17:55 AM
Not a single word sadly.. It's been collecting dust ever since I started on improving the button interface. :-X about a year ago.. I will get around to it someday..
awwww..... lol
Well thats fine then. I was hoping to save myself alot of work
Is there anybody out there...?
Hope this thread doesn't die ???
Hope to see pcb layout/schematics/connections etc!
By the way Arnoud, is it possible for you to share the code of arduino? I'm trying some stuff also!
I'm here, it's still collecting dust. :( I'll see if I can find the code, I was in the middle of changing it btw.
Progress.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg114/mth5044/image_zps68115b66.jpg)
Wow, so are you going to finish in time?
Nope. I haven't ordered an enclosure yet (I'm going to put it in one of Hammond's slopped enclosures), which I then need to send off somewhere to get drilled since I don't have the means here (especially the square holes). I also want to get a panel made for the front. In the midst of all that... trouble shooting :icon_lol:
Plus the new job, moving/new car, I just don't think it is possible.
BUT IT WILL GET DONE
Wow this looks great! I don't know if you seen it but OSHpark now offers a sharing service so others could order your PCB design. It would be great if something like that could be worked out!
Thanks!
Well, being on holidays give-me a few extra minutes per day (eheheh) to play around electronics, at moment I'm trying to develop a simple circuit switching for the heads, with possibility off having a few presets.
My ideia: Use a rotary switch with 12 positions (like the original unit) to have head selection, and four (for example) tiny push buttons, to memorize each one the relative position of the switch; for instance, I select position 1 of the switch, wich is head 1 only, and press button 1 to store that. then I choose position 5 (perhaps head 1 and 4) and then press button 2 to store that...
If during the preset (Lets use 1) I change the switch it overrides the preset and imediately chooses the position of the button. If I didn't memorize that, when I use preset 1 again, it returns for the memorized position (even it's position 1 of the selector, and the selector itself is in 12)
What you guys think on this ideia? It may take more space, but i'm pretending to put the unit in a big box, not so big as the original, but more likelly, rackmount and controlled by footswitch.
Makes sense, I think.. but is it really that much easier to setup the four button presets than it is to push a few buttons without presets? I'm kind of waffling right now on the switching as well. I like the soft touch buttons that ~arph used, but as I play with them more, they seem to be less reliable. Sometimes the connection doesn't make.
SO, I'm thinking about biting the bullet and going with 4x2 array of 'Angel Switches' :icon_mrgreen:
Excuse my ignorance but what is an angel switch?
(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v1/1127850889_1/Red-Green-Blue-white-16mm-Hole-12V-font-b-LED-b-font-Angel-Eye-font-b.jpg)
I guess they are called Angel Eye switches.. I haven't had a lot of time to think about them, but I was considering the repeat switches being blue and the regeneration switches red or white. The light up so nice.
@Matthew
Just so you know... these are called "Anti Vandal Switches"
I have several of them with the DPDT switch built in and quite a few different color LEDs. Initially I thought they would be good DPDT switches however, they are VERY long and will not work reasonably in any 1590Bs or BBs.
They barely fit in a 125B :icon_eek:
They are pretty cool though. Be sure to get the ones that have the plunger slightly raised above the outer ring otherwise you have to mash your finger in there to actuate them. ;)
How about this switches??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Square-Snap-In-Pushbutton-With-LED-Indicator-/290935147935?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43bd160d9f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Square-Snap-In-Pushbutton-With-LED-Indicator-/290935147935?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43bd160d9f)
From the usuall place :)
something on this page takes ages to load. Cannot be arph`s almost half megabyte avatar alone?
Stumbled across this, thought it would be an interesting read for those following this thread.....
http://gearphoria.com/e-mag/v1n2/#/38/
No schematics yet? :( Still didn't get how to make the switching for the "heads" and "feedback heads".
could the switching be done with toggles? how many contacts are required?
Yes, while it was on breadboard I used eight spdt switches in place of the push buttons
Have you seen the Prince Dawner pedal, the "Bonnar"? Strangely it is very similar to what was proposed some time ago here!
No, but it looks fantastic! Need to check out the sounds. I bet it's dsp based. If it's quad pt2399 hats off.
Oh, and are you secretly involved? This seems a bit like a plug, but in my case a welcome one
I'm not secretly involved, or anything, I noticed the similarity aesthetic level of what was proposed here. I also believe that use DSP, especially for the size of box.
Have you tried to add tap tempo using uC?
No have not tried that, should not be too hard as there is already an uC in there. I would build this thing quite different given the years passed. There are a couple of other very nice multi pt2399 projects out there now too.
What are the other projects called? Thanks. Been following this thread for a while, such a cool idea!
Well,
I might have missed a few.
On FSB (the other forum, can't link it here... free stomp boxes . org )
Search for:
1. Time Lord Programmable Delay
2. "my new delay, over the top PT2399's"
Things you can find here:
3. The Rebote 3 from tonepad.
4. Abductor Delay by deadastronaut
Then there probably are a bunch of dual pt2399 projects here too.. and madbean is bound to have a multi pt2399 project too.
Thanks, looking forward to your finished project. Yes, I believe MB has some cool delays, but no multi-taps. Though the ZPSDX2 does have 8th note subdivisions. The Abductor looks amazing as well, still trying to wrap my head around it!