Post any Completed Builds, Sound Samples, Questions, Ideas, Info, Mods, Notes, Working Voltages, Debugging Questions for the Bad Stone Phaser PCBs Here!
Here is the purchasing thread and also all the information currently available on the ordering page (Re-Drawn Schematic, PCB Layout, BOM, Original Bad Stone Phaser Graphic & Mod Ideas)
- http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87281.0
&
- http://www.digitaldestruct.com/BadStone.html
Some notes on my Bad Stone build.
The Feedback pot could possibly be replaced with a switch as there little perceptible change through the pot rotation. I tried linear and audio tapers, as well as smaller values, but none provided more "in-between" settings. The output stage is a different than other phasers and I think that it may be worthwhile to examine more closely. Perhaps an improvement could be made in terms of mixing of shifted/dry signal and output volume.
The Rate pot should be a reverse audio taper for the best spread over the rotation. R40 can be changed to 27k if you prefer to not have the ludicrous maximum speed, but that's how the original operates.
A 4069 can be used in place of the 4049 (using the pinout module (http://runoffgroove.com/6949.html)), but I found the sweep width and tone a bit lackluster compared to the 4049.
I socketed the phaser section 47n caps, mostly because I don't have any 47n on hand and want to put them in later. I have 56n caps in those sockets at the moment and it sounds good. I didn't use the LPB-1. I omitted the Color switch, hardwiring it to phaser mode.
Interesting... is the Feedback Pot the same on your actual unit rotation wise? Also what Tapers were in the original as that's never specified on the schematics and i've never seen a clear enough gut shot, was it originally a Reverse Log taper for Rate?
When you hardwired to Phaser mode, did you jumper or leave the switch pads unjumpered? Just so i'm sure.
Have yet to start my build yet and am just posting so I get linked to all the replies :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Scruffie on October 26, 2010, 09:31:25 AM
Interesting... is the Feedback Pot the same on your actual unit rotation wise? Also what Tapers were in the original as that's never specified on the schematics and i've never seen a clear enough gut shot, was it originally a Reverse Log taper for Rate?
When you hardwired to Phaser mode, did you jumper or leave the switch pads unjumpered? Just so i'm sure.
Yes, my original Bad Stone exhibits the same all-or-nothing Feedback action and the Rate pot has all its speed increase in the last 25% of rotation. The unmarked pots in my original seem to be linears. I tested linear, audio, and reverse audio for the Rate in my new build - reverse audio was the clear winner.
I ran a wire across the board for Phaser mode hardwiring.
I've done a cursory comparison of my original with the schematic included on the order page and everything seems to match so far. However, there seems to be no input or output caps! Since I've always babied the original, I haven't noticed any switch pop. I plan to take some higher resolution photos of the board and will also measure voltages.
Setup: Tele bridge pup - Bad Stone - Ampeg Rocket II - mic - mixer - MacBook
Due to the different tapers of my original and the new build, I set the controls to maximum Blend and minimum Rate, which -should- be pretty close between the two. Keep in mind that I have 56n caps in the phase shift stages. I recorded a clip with the 4069 to illustrate the tonal difference with the 4049.
original Bad Stone (http://runoffgroove.com/oldbs.mp3)
new Bad Stone (http://runoffgroove.com/newbs56n.mp3)
new Bad Stone with 4069 (http://runoffgroove.com/4069newbs56n.mp3)
Nice Clips! Cheers for recording them :)
The New Bad Stone sounds exactly the same to me as the old, which is a good thing and I can certainly hear what you mean about the 4069 version, still works fine though which is the main thing, just a different tone, which some people might like.
I'm glad the clips convey what I'm hearing.
I updated the home-wrecker.com Bad Stone page with higher resolution photos of the board: http://home-wrecker.com/badstone.html
I did so because after taking those photos and comparing them to the schematic for the new build, I did find some differences.
- As previously mentioned, there are no input or output caps in the original.
- Also previously mentioned, my original uses two batteries. The mono input jack sleeve connects to chassis ground (Vref) and the output jack sleeve lug is unconnected.
- There is a 33u cap from +9V to chassis ground (Vref). This was suggested here (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87281.msg738607#msg738607) and I reckon that it's inclusion would cure the squeal I hear when powering up with the circuit engaged.
- R49 is not present in my original and there is no spot on the board for it. I plan to try removing it from my build and will observe the result.
- R54 is also not present and I do not believe it is necessary as it parallels R39 and it is therefore redundant.
- Q1 in my original either has a reverse pinout or it is PNP. The markings are illegible.
- My unit uses the same board as the Manual Shift units, based on empty pads for SW2.
- I have no idea why C13 is mounted on the bottom when there is a spot for it to be mounted normally.
- pin 13 of IC5 is connected to pin 14 in the original. Shouldn't matter, since pin 13 of both the 4009 and 4049 has no internal connection.
Here is my build of the bad stone. Worked right off the bat. I used panasonic caps throughout. The booster at the end is not in yet. Hard to desolder the components if you make a mistake, I guess is the double sided plating. Sounds exactly like the clips. Thank you for developing and sharing this nice project.
Costantino
Pics posted at: http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10645&p=119045#p119045
Well it's working. I've just finished fiddling with it for tonight. I haven't got quite the same depth of sweep that we can hear in the clips.
Like Mr Tremblay I tried a whole range of different pots for the feedback but to no avail. What's interesting is that just when the feedback really cuts in and things get interesting then I get a lot of jet plane swoosh that is unrelated to the input and doesn't really seem to carry the signal. I will be looking into that tomorrow.
I used the UBE version of the 4049 and Panasonic metal film for everything except the larger uF values. The tant was also switched to metal film and it measured 1.64 uF, although it was still warm after I soldered two smaller caps together to make it. Otherwise everything was totally anally stock as usual.
There are some very sweet sounds available, thanks for the boards guys. I'll let you know if I get to the bottom of the sweep issue. I'm intending to do some "Hammer" mods to this too.
- Aston
Cheers for the Write up Skruffy.
In the Toppopiccione project page he says "I used 1% tolerance resistors for the phasing section (R12 to R20, R23, R24, R32 to R35) and 0.047uF capacitors with the slightest difference of value." I wonder if he did this because of problems with Depth, might be worth an investiagtion...
I wonder if the Feedback pot might be more effective in the manual mode? Anyone tried adding the control? Also how does it react in Phase compared to vibrato? Exactly the same or are there some differences?
Seems like an interesting build this one though that's gunna need some further exploration, but overall a pleasing sound is had by all (my futurlec order should arrive finally next week so I can actually hear this damn thing in person!)
When I get all my electronics out of storage, might be one for the breadboard to see about mods and improvements to the original, but i'm glad this original effect is back out there now!
Ok,I got busy with other projects and just now got to have a play with this again.
After switching out the 4049UBE for an obsolete RCA 4049AE I happened to have and changing one of the opamps I was suspicious about, I got two slight improvements.
I fiddled about with ferrite beads for fun and changed the feedback pot again, and somewhere in this process I figured out that I should give it a hotter signal. Huge improvement. I stuck a Boss GE7 in front with the level full up and everything flat, about 3db boost I think from memory. Much more action and greatly improved S/N ratio. The treble end was carrying much better than the bass so I used the EQ to beef the bass up and again it improved significantly. I swapped out my SG with a Tele and now it was really cooking.
There's lots more I want to do to this in terms of mods (may end up using the LPB on the front end with a filter), but just those changes produced some great sounds. I could get nice Wah sounds by timing the sweeps, and a whole range of pretty rhythm patterns alternating between chords and damped strings.
Next I'll change out C13 for a tant. Then I want work on getting the bass frequencies to sweep better.
Thanks again. -Aston
Hi There,
Just wondering if anyone would know off hand if replacing the 2N5088 with a 2N5089 would make any difference. I have some left over from a previous project.
Thanks. :icon_razz:
Quote from: malrock75 on November 17, 2010, 03:57:29 PM
Hi There,
Just wondering if anyone would know off hand if replacing the 2N5088 with a 2N5089 would make any difference. I have some left over from a previous project.
Thanks. :icon_razz:
That'll be fine, if not better, that transistor is for the LFO and needs higher gains to get it running :)
Thanks scruffie!
Thought this thread might be handy for anyone planning to make the Manual Pot an Expressionable Control That didn't know how -
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=79442.0
I finally spent some time with the Manual control and the expression pedal option.
The good news is I was able to crudely control the shift with a rocker pedal. The bad news? To enable Manual mode, I had to cut a trace.
I had to cut a trace because the PCB connects SW2A and SW2B (the two miniature pads). Therefore, the LFO is always engaged. Adding a Manual pot as detailed in the mod notes will result in a sort of LFO depth control. I cut the trace adjacent to the miniature pad at R36-R42 junction (I'll post a photo if anyone needs one).
With a 100k pot, the rotation produces one cycle of the LFO. There is some "overlap" at the extremes, as a new cycle begins. I think that some added resistance will produce a range of low to high as the footpedal is rocked. I plan to do some more experimenting.
Quote from: B Tremblay on November 20, 2010, 07:49:04 PM
I finally spent some time with the Manual control and the expression pedal option.
The good news is I was able to crudely control the shift with a rocker pedal. The bad news? To enable Manual mode, I had to cut a trace.
I had to cut a trace because the PCB connects SW2A and SW2B (the two miniature pads). Therefore, the LFO is always engaged. Adding a Manual pot as detailed in the mod notes will result in a sort of LFO depth control. I cut the trace adjacent to the miniature pad at R36-R42 junction (I'll post a photo if anyone needs one).
With a 100k pot, the rotation produces one cycle of the LFO. There is some "overlap" at the extremes, as a new cycle begins. I think that some added resistance will produce a range of low to high as the footpedal is rocked. I plan to do some more experimenting.
Well, it was added on at the last second without testing as a sorta, why not (Hence the weirdly placed tiny pads) so I suppose it could be worse! Bit of a shame none the less.
However, i'm looking at the schematic... and i'm looking at the layout... and it looks right to me? Maybe the mod document is wrong, i'm gunna have to investigate further when the PCB is to hand.
Did you have to cut the track on the bottom of the board leading up to C10? If I'm right in how you've done it, there woulda had to have been a jumper to avoid the problem... I suppose this is because it's based off the version before the Manual Control I got it wrong, well I hope no one is annoyed by that, but, that's what happened, it was a last second addition and clearly I didn't do it quite right :( but atleast there's an easy fix now.
What's the LFO 'depth control' like by the way? A useful mod? I'll change the mod documents if so as that sounds kinda interesting in itself actually.
Did you add the 27k resistor when you put the 100k pot in for the manual control? I assume that's there for the purpose of the pots cycle.
EDIT:While we're here, has anyone found a good tap off point for a LFO LED?
Quote from: Scruffie on November 20, 2010, 08:30:34 PM
Well, it was added on at the last second without testing as a sorta, why not (Hence the weirdly placed tiny pads) so I suppose it could be worse! Bit of a shame none the less.
However, i'm looking at the schematic... and i'm looking at the layout... and it looks right to me? Maybe the mod document is wrong, i'm gunna have to investigate further when the PCB is to hand.
Did you have to cut the track on the bottom of the board leading up to C10? If I'm right in how you've done it, there woulda had to have been a jumper to avoid the problem... I suppose this is because it's based off the version before the Manual Control I got it wrong, well I hope no one is annoyed by that, but, that's what happened, it was a last second addition and clearly I didn't do it quite right :( but atleast there's an easy fix now.
What's the LFO 'depth control' like by the way? A useful mod? I'll change the mod documents if so as that sounds kinda interesting in itself actually.
Did you add the 27k resistor when you put the 100k pot in for the manual control? I assume that's there for the purpose of the pots cycle.
EDIT:
While we're here, has anyone found a good tap off point for a LFO LED?
Yes, I cut the trace between the mini-pad and C10. Here's a photo:
(http://runoffgroove.com/bscuttrace.jpg)
I didn't test out the depth control too much, but it may be useful to some. You would be able to dial in just a shimmer, which is nice with higher speeds. A case could be made for hardwiring the feeedback to maximum and making the depth a panel pot instead.
Yes, I have the 27k resistor in place.
Hi Guys,
I have a problem with my badstone build, :icon_redface: namely it doesn't work..
When I engage the effect I get no signal. I am using the volume adjust circuit and an electro cap in place of the tant. (1.5uF)
Here are my voltages
Battery=8.84v
IC1
1- 4.13 5- 1.74
2- 4.14 6- 4.9
3- 4.13 7- 5.34
4- 0 8- 6.13
IC2
1- 4.05 5- 4.20
2- 4.15 6- 4.20
3- 4.10 7- 4.20
4- 0 8- 6.11
IC3
1- 4.19 5- 4.08
2- 4.1 6- 4.10
3- 4.12 7- 4.02
4- 0 8- 6.09
IC4
1- 4.18 5- 4.07
2- 4.09 6- 4.09
3- 4.11 7- 4.00
4- 0.00 8- 6.07
IC5
1- 5.47 9- 5.46
2- 4.11 10- 4.09
3- 5.47 11- 5.40
4- 4.06 12- 4.05
5- 5.46 13- 5.45
6- 4.05 14- 5.45
7- 5.46 15- 4 - 4.03
8- 4.08 16- 5.45
IC6
1- 4.85 8- 4.33
2- 3.99-4.02 9- 4.01
3- 4.01-4.03 10- 4
4- 6.03 11- 0.00
5- 3.73 12- 4.35
6- 3.74-3.86 13- 3.51
7- 3.85-4.05 14- 4.73
Some of the readings were fluctuating so I wrote down what I could see.
If anyone can see anything from these readings I would really like a point in the right direction.
Please excuse the noobiness.
Thanks Mal.
Do you have signal when the effect is bypassed. Check your offboard wiring first. Follow the debugging thread in the sticky at the top of "Building your own stompbox". If you don't get any joy I'll measure my voltages, but at a glance I am not seeing ground on 5 and 6. I will need to check the pinouts.
Good luck
- Aston
Thanks Aston.. I bypassed the LPB-1 and came straight off the board and it works :icon_lol: so there lies the problem. There are 4 holes near the output of the LPB section. Does anyone know if they should be bridged with anything else? They seem like an earth to me.
Second person to have an error with the LPB-1... i'm gunna have to look into this.
Quote from: malrock75 on November 30, 2010, 04:50:12 AM
Thanks Aston.. I bypassed the LPB-1 and came straight off the board and it works :icon_lol: so there lies the problem. There are 4 holes near the output of the LPB section. Does anyone know if they should be bridged with anything else? They seem like an earth to me.
However... the 4 holes should be a trimmer, without a trimmer there's nothing connecting the output of the LPB-1 to the rest of it! There's 2 holes given on the centre row for different types of trimmer.
You'd have to take the output from C17 if you didn't use a trimmer.
Grrr, got my new board, and got it all populated....
except I'm now out of a few electros I need. Crap.
I still haven't modded this because I'm enjoying it too much like it is. Now I'm building a small stone in between other things and the other night I had a dream that I should insert the small stone in the feedback loop of the bad stone :icon_eek:
I guess I'll have to do it just in case it was divine inspiration :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Scruffie on November 30, 2010, 11:22:28 AM
Second person to have an error with the LPB-1... i'm gunna have to look into this.
Quote from: malrock75 on November 30, 2010, 04:50:12 AM
Thanks Aston.. I bypassed the LPB-1 and came straight off the board and it works :icon_lol: so there lies the problem. There are 4 holes near the output of the LPB section. Does anyone know if they should be bridged with anything else? They seem like an earth to me.
However... the 4 holes should be a trimmer, without a trimmer there's nothing connecting the output of the LPB-1 to the rest of it! There's 2 holes given on the centre row for different types of trimmer.
You'd have to take the output from C17 if you didn't use a trimmer.
I wouldn't be alarmed about the boards just yet as I am new to this... I was trying to find specs on a trimmer to use in all the info but couldn't find any( Domestic blindness maybe)..What would you suggest?
Thanks Mal
Any 100k Trimmer would be fine, the ones smallbear stock would work -
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=160
or
http://www.futurlec.com/PotTrim.shtml
Just came across this, EHXs original vinyl recorded audio 'advert' for the Bad Stone Phaser, a nice little demo of some of the stuff the pedal can do.
http://www.ehx.com/assets/archive/flexidisc-bad-stone.mp3
Okay, I'm at my wit's end. I'm on my second bad stone board, and I can't get it to work either. I assume it's due to the fact that none of the chips are receiving full supply on pin 8. If I'm reading my voltages correctly, my voltage drops to about 1 volt right after R50. I've swapped the resistor numerous times. I'm about to throw this through a window.
Could it be a blown opamp sucking down the voltage?
Quote from: Barcode80 on February 03, 2011, 03:13:36 AM
Okay, I'm at my wit's end. I'm on my second bad stone board, and I can't get it to work either. I assume it's due to the fact that none of the chips are receiving full supply on pin 8. If I'm reading my voltages correctly, my voltage drops to about 1 volt right after R50. I've swapped the resistor numerous times. I'm about to throw this through a window.
Could it be a blown opamp sucking down the voltage?
Again! This seems to be a finnicy build, but the boards are verified...
Yes it could... but also, this pedal just seems to function off a lower voltage, here are B Tremblays Voltages from his working pedal -
IC1-4 TL072
1: 3.61 8: 7.6
2: 3.61 7: 3.61
3: 3.61 6: 3.61
4: 0.00 5: 3.614049UB
1: 5.18 16:
2: 3.61 15: 3.61
3: 5.18 14: 5.18
4: 3.61 13:
5: 5.18 12: 3.61
6: 3.61 11: 5.18
7: 5.18 10: 3.61
8: 3.61 9: 5.18From a 9.13V Supply.
Post your full voltages, otherwise we're just debugging blind.
Will do later tonight.
There has been some confusion over the Transistor Pin out, the Silk Screen applies to the BC239 transistor used in earlier models, not the 2N5088 listed in the parts list, I should have made this clearer so if your build is non-functioning, please check your pinout matches and always read the schematic and check datasheets before building. :)
So viewed from the top of the board, with the Flat side facing the Left on the Silk Screen, Top to Bottom is C,B,E.
On another note, sockets are highly suggested for this build, it does not desolder very easily from what some people have been saying and this can be a finnicy build.
That makes no sense. I have a board that's doing just great with the 2N5088 stuck in it facing the wrong way then, apparently. How's that possible?
Quote from: Skruffyhound on February 06, 2011, 03:43:07 PM
That makes no sense. I have a board that's doing just great with the 2N5088 stuck in it facing the wrong way then, apparently. How's that possible?
Depends on brand, Fairchild (Which alot of people use) Pinout would be wrong, the Phillips however would be correct, hence the need to check datasheets and schematics before building.
That or you have a magic pedal :icon_mrgreen:
It's magic. Be worth a fortune on ebay
I'd never heard of pinout variations on the 5088, one of the most versatile transistors and widely used.
My datasheets say the Fairchild and Phillips have the same pinout. So, both wrong. I can't be sure about other manufacturers, I'll check tomorrow. Mine says -J01 , who's that then?
Edit:because only half my post appeared.
finally had some time to put this together, but the LFO isn't LFO-ing. the guitar sounds the same with the effect engaged. when i flip the color switch the signal is 'cut' a little bit, but nothing really happens. i've tried flipping/switching the 5088 and that doesn't help. in fact, it operates the same if i take the 5088 completely out. i'm posting my voltage readings in hopes that they may be of help. i think there is problem somewhere around pins 12-14 on the 4049. an easy illustration of the LFO trouble is that all of my readings on the LM324 were stable except for pin 14. i did do the manual mod as listed in the build notes. i also saw something about a 100 uf cap used to jumpstart the lfo from the 9v rail to Vref. i don't understand how that would work; + side of the cap to pin 4 and - side to pin 11? any help would be much appreciated!
IC1-IC4 (4558's)
1) 3.257 8: 6.630
2) 3.257 7) 3.257
3) 3.257 6) 3.257
4) 0 5) 3.257
IC5 (4049UBE)
1) 6.682 16) 6.681
2) 3.263 15) 3.263
3) 6.681 14) 6.681
4) 3.263 13) 6.681
5) 6.681 12) 3.262
6) 3.262 11) 6.681
7) 6.681 10) 3.263
8: 3.263 9) 6.681
IC6 (lm324)
1) 6.670 14) approx 261 mv
2) 3.260 13) 3.07
3) 3.235 12) 3.24
4) 6.687 11) 0
5) 3.252 10) 3.233
6) 3.215 9) 3.205
7) 3.205 8: 3.242
Did you use the LPB-1? It does not work, i'm in the process of updating the files to fix that.
The Manual Pot also Requires a Cut Trace, I think it's shown on the page before this, it wont work quite right untill you do so.
Check the Datasheet for YOUR 5088 and adjust it according to the schematic, you can keep turning it till you get it right if you like but it'd be better to know it was right for debugging.
Your voltages look right but quite low, how are you powering this? Battery? Is your R50 - 100R Resistor the Correct Value? It might be worth just Jumpering that, Barcodes Pedal wouldn't work with a One Spot untill he removed it... it's probably not that necessary.
used the LPB but i have it on its own switch; nope, doesn't work but i figured i'd get the main circuit working first.
cut the bajeebers outta the trace but i'm still getting continuity between c10 and the manual switch. from what i was reading the circuit should still work though, correct? just be a bit weird.
the 5088s i use go CBE top to bottom with the flat side facing the right. so if i put it in "backwards" vs. the silkscreen it should be right.
i'm using a standard 9v 300ma adapter. i pulled R50 out and went direct, that upped the IC voltages into the 4.5 range.
i think i can hear a vibrato-esque thing really low if i crank my amp up, methinks it might be time to quad-check my component values.
I picked up one of these boards, more or less to troubleshoot the lpb-1 section. Here is the fix that worked for me:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_PDdiFoxSXf8/TYqieF2WUxI/AAAAAAAAFBQ/piDr269gCwA/s800/DSC00809.jpg)
I had to cut two traces. The point where the 1M, 100k and base meet is connected to the power plane at the 1M's leg. Cut the trace between the 1M and base, and the trace between the 100k and 1M, then add a jumper as shown in the pic. I haven't finished the phaser portion, but tested the lpb-1 and it is working nicely.
Feel free to share this info in any relevant threads.
i still haven't been able to get this guy to fire up, so now i'm trying random things: i see that a spdt toggle is listed for the color switch. since the first pin wasn't tied into anything i used a spst. would this have any bearing on my trouble? if so, where does the 1st pin from the switch go?
My build went well. The only issue I have is at full feedback I get some oscillation noise. If I back off a hair it goes away. I put the LPB-1 on it's own switch and did the manual sweep mod. Had to cut three traces in all to get it all to work. I was thinking of adding another switch that would reconnect the cut trace on the manual sweep so I could use it either as a mx\depth control or manual sweep but there isn't an easy place to hook up at. I might look into that later but for now just enjoying this awesome phaser.
Hey,
I'm in the process of building this and I've got a few questions:
1. Would Linear taper for all three pots work ok? (E.g. changes not occurring on the last 10% of rotation :icon_confused: )
I don't have any rev logs and after waiting 1.5 months for some of my orders to ship, I'm not really willing to place another order (Thanks, Canada Post!)
2. Does the "LFO Depth" control using a non trace-cut board make a noticeable difference? Is it worth adding an SPST reconnecting the cut trace to switch between LFO depth and manual shift?
3. How is the vibrato ("Color") switch meant to be wired? Can anyone confirm my current plan:
Pole 1 -- N/C SW1A SW1B
Pole 2 -- I JACK(I) I(B)
Pole 3 -- O JACK(O) O(B)
I know... it's sideways, but I hope I don't have it backwards!
Thanks!
Quote from: phector2004 on July 22, 2011, 01:19:04 PM
2. Does the "LFO Depth" control using a non trace-cut board make a noticeable difference? Is it worth adding an SPST reconnecting the cut trace to switch between LFO depth and manual shift?
Yes, it's worth it. I made the cut trace on mine switchable and it is a very effective depth control.
Thanks! I've got plenty of SPST toggles, so I'll give it a go!
Got that switch all mucked up, though... Effect output should be boosted. I'll probably revise tomorrow :)
Hi all, I understand it's a while since anyone posted here. I've finally been able to get to work on my Bad Stone build. This is by far the most complicated build I've done.
I've got everything wired up now. Not using the lpb-1 yet, but it's all in place. Bypass is fine, when the effect is engaged no noise or anything. I've got a feeling I may just have something wired incorrectly, so I thought I'd post a couple of pics up to see if anyone noticed something missing or out of place. If anyone can help me that would be much appreciated. :)
(http://www.lonephantom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/BadStone01.jpg)
(http://www.lonephantom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/BadStone02.jpg)
Thanks again :)
I dunno if you read earlier in the thread, but first place I'd check is the NPN transistor. If you are using a different NPN (like say a 2n5088), the pinout on the silk screen is reversed 180 degrees
Quote from: Barcode80 on January 27, 2012, 05:21:24 PM
I dunno if you read earlier in the thread, but first place I'd check is the NPN transistor. If you are using a different NPN (like say a 2n5088), the pinout on the silk screen is reversed 180 degrees
I can't remember who had that issue, but I used a 2N5088 orientated as per the silkscreen and it works fine as have many other people.
I can't see your pictures properly, they're too big!
Can you post your voltages?
Quote from: Barcode80 on January 27, 2012, 05:21:24 PM
I dunno if you read earlier in the thread, but first place I'd check is the NPN transistor. If you are using a different NPN (like say a 2n5088), the pinout on the silk screen is reversed 180 degrees
I did swap the transistor around just in case, but the same result.
Voltages for all ICs? It may be a while before I can do that. I'll post them as soon as I can.
Thanks :)
Quote from: Scruffie on February 06, 2011, 01:18:52 PM
There has been some confusion over the Transistor Pin out, the Silk Screen applies to the BC239 transistor used in earlier models, not the 2N5088 listed in the parts list, I should have made this clearer so if your build is non-functioning, please check your pinout matches and always read the schematic and check datasheets before building. :)
So viewed from the top of the board, with the Flat side facing the Left on the Silk Screen, Top to Bottom is C,B,E.
On another note, sockets are highly suggested for this build, it does not desolder very easily from what some people have been saying and this can be a finnicy build.
This is what I was referring to.
I had a quick check last night, and I'm not sure if I'm doing the measurements right, or if I in fact have a problem with power getting to the circuit. I just want to confirm, give the circuit 9V, don't need a lead in the jacks, set multimeter to volts, negative lead to a ground point on the circuit board, positive touching a pin on the ic. I'm not getting any readings doing this. Is this the right way to measure, and thus meaning my power isn't making it past the indicator LED to the +9V on the PCB?
Thanks again :)
Most my projects with antilog pots get log pots wired reverse when testing. You'd be surprised at how many have stayed that way because it ended up making more sense to me after a while.
Can anyone please confirm if I'm measuring voltage correctly, if if so the fact that the ics I've checked so far reading 0V means there's an issue further up the chain?
Thanks!
Quote from: LonePhantom on February 01, 2012, 04:53:11 PM
Can anyone please confirm if I'm measuring voltage correctly, if if so the fact that the ics I've checked so far reading 0V means there's an issue further up the chain?
Thanks!
You are doing it right as long as your multimeter is set to the right range (usually 20V) and the ground is connected, you put the black probe to any ground point and then probe with the red pin.
So yes it's possible voltage isn't getting to the circuit, check the DC jack and 9V pad on the pedal. You will need a jack in the socket if you've wired this for a battery.
Quote from: Barcode80 on January 28, 2012, 01:42:15 AM
Quote from: Scruffie on February 06, 2011, 01:18:52 PM
There has been some confusion over the Transistor Pin out, the Silk Screen applies to the BC239 transistor used in earlier models, not the 2N5088 listed in the parts list, I should have made this clearer so if your build is non-functioning, please check your pinout matches and always read the schematic and check datasheets before building. :)
So viewed from the top of the board, with the Flat side facing the Left on the Silk Screen, Top to Bottom is C,B,E.
On another note, sockets are highly suggested for this build, it does not desolder very easily from what some people have been saying and this can be a finnicy build.
This is what I was referring to.
Now I remember, it depends on your brand of 5088, some have the opposite pinout, for mine the silk screen was right.
Thanks, I thought I had it right. Yeah, I thought i'd measured correctly from the jack to the +9V on the board and got nothing. I might need to double check that. The LED powers up, but that's it.
Well, I got the Bad Stone side of things working. It was a problem with the wires on the power jack. Worked fine with a battery. Fixed it all up, and mains power works now too.
Another problem though. I tried hooking up the lpb-1 part, and I've hit the problem others have mentioned. The only thing I could see in this thread was a picture where someone cut traces and rewired a few things. I couldn't quite follow it though. Can someone please provide a bit more info as to what needs to be done to get the LPB-1 part working. The circuit without it is sounding weaker than my dry signal. The phase is awesome though.
Cheers :)
+1!
I was scratching my head for a good two hours as to why my build wasn't working... had to completely bypass the LPB-1... I only realized there was a problem with the actual board today!
would've been nice if this problem and it's fix were noted in the build instructions or something :-\
Quote from: phector2004 on February 05, 2012, 09:49:26 AM
+1!
I was scratching my head for a good two hours as to why my build wasn't working... had to completely bypass the LPB-1... I only realized there was a problem with the actual board today!
would've been nice if this problem and it's fix were noted in the build instructions or something :-\
Was it not updated? I'll have to message someone and get that sorted.
The point where the 1M, 100k and base meet is connected to the power plane at the 1M's leg. Cut the trace between the 1M and base, and the trace between the 100k and 1M, then add a jumper as shown in the pic.
Not on the digitaldestruct site...
Thanks for the quick-fix instructions, though
Looks like I've got some modding to do next weekend ;D
So just to confirm, with the way the board is right now, there's no continuity between the legs of C5 (0.1uf)? I thought my cap was somehow stuffed, and with some difficulty pulled it from the board and replaced, only to find the same problem. Does that sound right (for the problem)?
I'll try and follow those instructions to get the LBP-1 working during the week.
Cheers!
I sorted out the LPB-1 side of things last night, and the effect fired up. It was fairly noisy though, lots of white noise. Would this effect be noisier when not in an enclosure yet? I'm not sure if some of my soldering could be causing it, or if modulation effects really need to be housed to sound ok.
Thanks all, I'm glad to (hopefully) have this all up and running. I've started drilling the enclosure. Drill just ran out of charge, and I seem to have lost an 8mm bit for the pots, so I'll get it boxed up soon.
Hi guys,
I've finished building my first Bad Stone, using topopiccione project
http://topopiccione.atspace.com/pjimages/EHBadStone.sch.gif
http://topopiccione.atspace.com/pjimages/EHBadStone.lay.gif
I can't get it working, I get no phasing sound and a little bit of distortion.
Here are my voltages, I hope someone can give help, because I'm totally stuck with it.
ICA 4558
1 1.95
2 1.95
3 0
4 0
5 0
6 1.97
7 2.00
8 7.56
ICB 4558
1 6.44
2 6.44
3 0.02
4 0
5 0.77
6 1.66
7 2.60
8 7.56
ICC 4558
1 6.73
2 4.38
3 0
4 0
5 0
6 6.16
7 5.59
8 7.56
ICD 4558
1 1.98
2 1.97
3 0
4 0
5 0.43
6 1.96
7 1.96
8 7.56
ICE 4049
1 7.06
2 0
3 7.06
4 0
5 7.06
6 0
7 7.06
8 0
9 7.06
10 0
11 7.06
12 0
13 7.06
14 7.06
15 0
16 7.06
ICF 324
1 6.42
2 0
3 0
4 7.65
5 0.63
6 0.63
7 0.03
8 0.63
9 0.03
10 0
11 0
12 2.70
13 0
14 6.32
I did some additional check on my build and I just realized I had a short between ground and one of the supply rails!
This was the main problem because now all the voltages seem correct (compared to the ones posted earlier in this topic) and the pedal is phasing.
However, I compared the sound to my other phasers and to the samples of original bad stone.
Something isn't right, because the phasing sound has not that smooth sine-wave like shape, but more like a stepped one (triangle??)
I try to post a sound sample soon so you can evaluate the problem. I've replaced all the ICs with fresh ones but nothing happened.
Then, I used a linear pote for the rate control, and I notice it's useless in the first 3/4 of the rotation. Are you guys using anti-log pots for rate or is a wrong behavior of my unit?
Here is the sound sample
http://soundcloud.com/mxxp_labs/bad-stone-lfo-sample
bump... anyone?
Use anti-log.
And no clue what's going on with your LFO, seems to be jumping, check all your values, orientations etc. in that area.
You used the UNbuffered version of the HEX-inverter? (4049UBE) The buffered one doesn`t do smooth resistance-sweeps but rather jumps from high to low.
Quote from: ORK on June 30, 2012, 03:32:31 AM
You used the UNbuffered version of the HEX-inverter? (4049UBE) The buffered one doesn`t do smooth resistance-sweeps but rather jumps from high to low.
I've used both with same results. Tried replacing one more time all the ICs with fresh ones, but problem is still here.
I've triple checked all the connections and they seem good. Will try to replace all the diodes and polarized caps and see if something happens.
Thanks for the support, please stay tuned
I've tried to replace C10 (1uF el) C13 (1uF tant) and D1 (1N4148) with no results. Checked all components values one more time and everything is correct.
I had the unit wired permanently in auto mode (ie the manual shift pot was bypassed) so today I've decided to add the manual switch and pot.
Then, I noticed a strange behavior: when going from manual mode back to auto mode, the lfo isn't working anymore and I have to power-cycle the supply. After that, I have phasing back in auto mode.
This thing is really driving me crazy and I have no clue where to look at next... Please give some thoughts and if additional measurements need to be taken, just ask me.
Thanks again
still no ideas... please help
Ah! Some people did have problems with the Power line input resistor, (100R or whatever value it is) and jumpering that helped fix builds.
Is your 2N5088 orientated correctly too? Perhaps try a 2N5089 too for more hFe.
thanks scruffie, tonight i'll try and report back
could be the old: "Fairchild vs. Texas vs. Phillips"- Hex-Inverter-chip threshold/Bias thing...
I tried to leave out the 100R resistor, and swap to a BC549C with hFe around 570 which was the highest I could get (is that enough?) I even swapped the 4049 for a 4009UBE which it's the same as in the original pedal
Yet no change, lfo still has wrong shape and has that "latch-up"? problem...
Quote from: puretube on July 03, 2012, 04:43:00 PM
could be the old: "Fairchild vs. Texas vs. Phillips"- Hex-Inverter-chip threshold/Bias thing...
please can you expand on this?
BUMP I'm still struggling with this
I had a problem with the LFO too. Here's some info that might help:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=42189.0
I am also trying to resolve an "LFO won't oscillate" issue with my Bad Stone. I've tried different transistors, I am using an LF324, and I have tried 4009 as well as 4049 all to no avail.
Could anyone elaborate on what Sir HC meant in this post http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=42189.msg304951#msg304951
What sort of cap is he suggesting that we should add, a small ceramic in parallel with the 100uF, or another electrolytic somewhere????
Also, in my original Bad Stone, there was a 1uF tantalum, but I see that everyone (and the schematic) is using a 1.5uF. Is this a critical part? Has anyone had theirs working with a 1uF? Easy enough to change, but I'm just curious, since 1uF seems to be the original component (in practice if not on paper).
Thanks - D
Quote from: The Groke on August 12, 2012, 09:47:18 AM
I am also trying to resolve an "LFO won't oscillate" issue with my Bad Stone. I've tried different transistors, I am using an LF324, and I have tried 4009 as well as 4049 all to no avail.
Could anyone elaborate on what Sir HC meant in this post http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=42189.msg304951#msg304951
What sort of cap is he suggesting that we should add, a small ceramic in parallel with the 100uF, or another electrolytic somewhere????
Also, in my original Bad Stone, there was a 1uF tantalum, but I see that everyone (and the schematic) is using a 1.5uF. Is this a critical part? Has anyone had theirs working with a 1uF? Easy enough to change, but I'm just curious, since 1uF seems to be the original component (in practice if not on paper).
Thanks - D
I think he means add another 100uF Elec, positive to the 9V rail, negative to the V.Ref (or any point with the 'fork' on the schematic) or in parallel with the first 10k resistor coming from the 9V input on the schematic if that makes better sense.
Don't fret that tant cap, I used a 1uF Electrolytic, if the original used 1uF tant that's fine, you can't trust the original EHX schematics too much and nor can you trust EHX didn't run out of a part and substitute another so it really makes little difference.
maybe another helpful thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=66768.0 :icon_question: