i used the search function til my head is reeling and my eyes are dripping down my cheekbones, maybe i'm using the wrong keywords, but can't seem to find the answer.
so...i want to use my crybaby....and i wanna use my fuzzface. pretty much in that order, maybe with a couple pedals between them even.
both sound absolutely killer by themselves.
put 'em together...in that order, anyways...and suddenly they sound like poo. way too much treble, most of the wah range dissappears, and gets real harsh sounding.
sound familiar? i know it does, i've read about the problem before in various places, but f*** me if i can find the info now when i need it.
so...is there some way to FIX this that actually works? tried a buffer, made no difference whatsoever. i know there's gotta be a way, or the definitive fix, but i can't seem to find it.
can somebody help me out please?
thanks!! ;)
Have you tried a lower gain on the FF when the wah is running through it? Playing bass, the sonic properties of the distortion and the original signal are so far apart that I can't get away with a bunch of gain after a wah... just goes from distortion to screaching, no real wah effect (I assume we are describing the same thing). If so, then I'm kinda in the same boat... with a bass, lol. That's why I run my wah near the end of my chain, right in front of my overdrive. It's a balancing act with all the other distortions I use... the overdrive has a clean blend, which does the trick of letting my wah happen before distortion. I run all the rest before the wah... the Bazz Fuss sounds the shiz through the wah.
ETA: Just thinking about it, I wonder if Morley and the others made the "FuzzWah" type pedals because of that... that way you had a fuzz that was guaranteed to work with the wah (plus, a 2-in-1 was probably good in the marketing area).
yah, we're talking about the same thing bro...there's gotta be a way to do this. i don't run the ff pegged or anything, and this is annoying!! ;)
I have found the same thing , with FF's , and a Tonebender - they sounded horrible with the Crybaby first.
If I put the Fuzz first , then the CB , sounds great ! I think the answer is to do with Impedances -
best ask someone like R.G. for a proper explanation .
I just make sure that any pedal with a low input impedance is fed directly by the guitar PU .
Ooooh... I THINK I remember this one. Of course, the wah's effect os dependent on the amount of harmonics that precede it.
BUT, the wah also creates a resonant peak that is higher energy than the rest of the signal. I think it's that peak that's screwing with the FF. Perhaps try a feedback cap to cut the squeeleys (new made-up effects term).
I bet a cap that doesn't affect the tone too much (maybe even set a lowpass at about 10kHz) would help out immensely.
i read something about a buffer and a 47k resistor, but i can't seem to find it. there's GOTTA be a way to fix this. ;)
an output buffer might solve part of the problem, but i know your ears are well tuned, you might still notice that the fuzz face just doesn't work well with what your wah is putting out, frequency-wise.
i know there are many who like the wah before fuzz ( or OD etc), but, like nick d i have preferred fuzz before wah for many years. when i do have a pedal board,, i have fuzz face type fuzzes before and after the wahs for extra emphasis.
One simple thing to try is putting a 100k resistor on the output of the wah.
May just be an impedance issue (usually is). A buffer would work as well.
If you have a Boss (or any buffer always on, [even in bypass] pedal.)
This would add a buffer without messing with the wah.
interested to see how this will turn out.
I'm with Joe & Nick...fuzz first...
but just out of curiosity, in the Dallas Arbiter Fuzz-Wah Face, which comes first?
Foxrox makes a buffer that works. It's pretty simple, and the schematic can be found... elsewhere.
Mike
Quote from: .Mike on September 07, 2011, 02:24:38 AM
Foxrox makes a buffer that works. It's pretty simple, and the schematic can be found... elsewhere.
Mike
I does believes this is what Mike is talking about; http://www.foxroxelectronics.com/Wah%20retrofit%202.html (http://www.foxroxelectronics.com/Wah%20retrofit%202.html) . I've had the same problem, with different effects. Some sound better before, and other after the wah. It always depends on the effect, and the wah. Apparently. it's an age old problem.
It's not a dumb question. :) Look at the schematic of a FF and determine it's input impedence. Hint: This is why your guitar knob helps it clean up so well when rolled off.
Now look at your input buffer on your crybaby schematic. Two separate monsters.
Fuzz first is the easiest fix. If you don't want to go that route, look up the Dunlop JH-2S shcemo and see if that input buffer give you any ideas on what you want to do.
And of course: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fuzzface/fffram.htm
The Crybaby circuit sucks (in my opinion obviously) because it lacks an output buffer. Without an output buffer, it wahs differently depending on what it's plugged in to. In the case of the Fuzz Face, it doesn't wah at all.
I would add a buffer to the Crybaby first, regardless of the fuzz problem.
That takes care of the fuzz loading the wah, but creates a new problem: overloading the fuzz. Fuzz Faces and their cousins expect a low-current input to function normally. A guitar fits this description, but a buffer does not. The high-current output of a buffer overloads the fuzz and makes it harsher and harder to control with your playing dynamics.
The generic solution is to raise the impedance between the buffer and the fuzz. Fulltone's '69 pedal does this with a series resistor inside the fuzz pedal. Foxrox adds series resistance to their wah-output buffer. Both of these approaches solve the buffer/fuzz mismatch, but compromise performance in other situations. For example, the Foxrox wah buffer works well with the fuzz but the output resistance cripples the buffer's ability to drive long lines without loss. The Fulltone's extra input resistance lowers the maximum gain available from the fuzz.
Here's my solution:
Here the "other effects" would be your (buffered) Crybaby. S1, S2 and S3 would be in one box. I'll draw up a functional schematic when I get back to my Eagle-equipped computer. :)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=46129&g2_serialNumber=1)
This solved my problem...
http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm (http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm)
hi guys, spent all day f'in with this thing, built a buffer based on the foxrox wah buffer...same value resistors, 22u caps (was out of 10) and a 741 instead of the chip specified, figuring since it's a buffer, it should work.
it does, but pretty much sucks. i lose about the bottom octave of my wah (i put it on a dpdt switch so i could have buffer or not depending on what gear i'm using, wired between the pot and the switch.
f'n' waste of time. if the fuzz is off, it KINDA works, but it still sounds better without it.,,,the un-buffered wah is nite and day, you can't even tell the buffer is on if the fuzz is on...it doesn't oscillate, but there's no bottom end and it sounds really weasily and thin. so i'm gonna ditch it i think...no point leaving it in there that i can see.
btw...it's a gcb 95, so it does have the buffered input...i did the vocal, mids, sweep etc mods on it years ago with help from rg. think i'll leave well enough alone, or see if i can stomach the fuzzface first, before the wah. i usually like fuzz on both sides of the wah, all the stuff not on my pedal board goes into the wah generally anyways.
can't believe i wasted this much time chasing this particular windmill. ;)
do ya think it's cuzza the opamp i used?
gonna try one other trick, gonna wire in a 50k pot in line with the output and see if that works...may as well, seeing as how i drilled a hole in the damn shell already anyways!! lol,
live and learn i guess.
tomorrow, i'll try a different buffer maybe,....perhaps it needs to be a jfet instead of the chip i used...looking at this, too:
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mccoy.php
(http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mccoy/mccoybufferschematic.gif)
do ya think a j201 will work? it's all i have right now, between gigs so cash is tite right now.
thanks for all the advice and suggestions tho, you guys rock!! ;)
J201 will work in that circuit.
thanks bro. this one from beavis looks ok, too...
http://home-wrecker.com/wahmods.html
thanks to all of you.
i dicked around with a couple other buffers tonite, all the same...none work well enough to merit adding to the circuit imho.
what DID seem to work a little...is a 50k pot in line between the wah pot ans switch, wired as a voltage divider. you can kinda dial in the wah to a point where it works.
surprised me!! ;)
So a 50k pot wired as a volume control/Voltage divider worked the best?
There must be something else going on. I can't see how the foxrox would be thin.
Did you try a single in line resistor after the wah circuit? (between the wah out and switch)
hi john, no, i didn't try a single resistor, just figured while i've got this hole in the side of the dang thing i may as well stick a pot in it.
i tried a couple more buffers...they all work, but none of them work good enough to merit keeping in the pedal. the best one was this one:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DougH/OddsNEnds/crybaby_sch.gif.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
which is also the simplest...the wah actually works with the fuzzface, but it hums too bad when heel down on the wah to be useful.
i may try a couple others tomorrow, but at this point i'm realizing it's probably a waste of time bro.
the 50 k deal between the wah pot and switch seems to work the best so far...can actually kinda dial in a sweet spot where they play decently...not great...together.
like i was sayin...
Like you know anything about wahs, or fuzz faces for that matter. :D
Bummer Jimi...
lol...you guys are killin' me here. :icon_mrgreen:
ya know, it's funny.... i was ALWAYS a fuzz first guy for years, i still think it sounds better that way...but at some point i got used to the wah tickling distortion, so put that first.
tonite i tried the fuzzface first. and i DO like it better.
the crybaby sounds better in front of my super overdrive and big muff, but the ff before it sounds good enough i'm admitting defeat, and gonna re-do my pedalboard.
the REAL BUMMER is gonna be trying to decide which freakin' pedals to keep...right now i'm running way too many, on two separate boards. i think i'm gonna condense it.
the fuzzface, wah, sd1 and a couple others are gonna stay...i'll keep the bread and butter ones, but the icing on the cake ones are gonna be hard to give up. ;)