Hi there,
New around DIY and the forum.
By the way, Joel "sendoushi" Santos, graphic and web designer that started to play guitar like a year or two ago.
Anyway, I'm finding out ways to get a print on the case.
The most obvious one, screen printing, which I use most of the times as a graphic designer but I don't have the equipment to do it nor the space to do it so... I'm trying to find other ways to get a print on the surface of the case. Not talking about fancy prints but simple black prints to know where the "gain" is for example.
Welcome to the forums. I screenprint my boxes, graphic designer as well. A lot of the people here have been using the waterslide decals. They look pretty nice, and with clearcoats they seem to hold up pretty good. I've also used CPM heat transfer material from The Magic Touch. Others have used the PnP Blue that Smallbear carries.
If you havent yet, take a mosey through the picture threads, alot of techniques discussed there, and some really awesome work.
Hi there, thanks for the solutions. I'll search out those systems. I already checked pictures yes. Awesome work around here.
Don't know exactly how this guy does this, but he prints on the backside of plastic sheet. Looks good.
For example: http://www.musicgarage.fi/2011/08/28/bendrive/
For myself, i've tried waterslide, but it requires patience and steady hand. Freehand painting and transparent self-adhesive plastic sheets are the way for me at the moment.
I have also tried image transfer glue, but that doesn't give too neat outcome and requires pretty soft material to use on.
Decals or just photopaper. Now I use photopaper, 180gr.
Maik: How do you use it?
Just curious, because this seems nice way to get good graphics on the boxes...
Hi
I do this way
- print graph, lables ecc, as many as possible, on 2 sheets standard A4 adhesive paper, either inkjet or laser, leaving about 2cm of blank margins
- pack the sheets together back to back
- laminating the sheets with a small home PVC laminator machines, costs about 20-30 euro
- cut the sheets through the margins, so the two sheets now can be splitted
- then I have the printed side plastic-coated and the back side still adhesive
- cut the lables/images and then stick them to the enclosure or anything else you need.
couple of examples
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/100_0565.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/100_0577.jpg)
Ciao
Once again thanks for the replies. Armando, your idea seems pretty nice! Theoretically that will last long but... What can you say about that? The durability.
By the way, where do you buy the pedal cases in Europe?
Gets a bit off topic, but musikding.de is good place for everything. Right prices and reasonable postage fees. Plus you can get waterslide decals and those self-adhesive sheets there also. Only in A6 size, but once again price is reasonable.
Hi Joel,
I print it out on that ultra glossy paper, 180g with an inkjet printer.
Cut it out.
Using a - @#$%, don´t know the english word for it - "Klebestift", mine is a strong one from UHU, but you can use a prit-pencil as long it´s a strong paperglue.
Getting it glued to the box.
Using a non-solvent enamel finish, a solventfinish will destroy your print (if it´s inkjet).
Spray it 4-5 times thin and than thicker, so that you can´t feel the paper anymore.
I use this when I need white.
If you don´t need white you can use waterslide decals for ceramic. You will need a laserprinter.
http://www.pearl.de/a-VM5726-2421.shtml?query=keramik
These are transparent. After they are dry again use a backoven to fix it on the box with 160 degreese for 30-40 min.
These decals are cool, I buy them from pearl.de. 25 Euro for 8 DIN A 4. Drilling after they are burn in.
Spray it 4-5 times thin and than thicker
Quote from: Maik on January 12, 2012, 09:54:50 AM"Klebestift"
For those not familiar with german, Glue stick. :)
arma61's laminator trick is something i want to try out.
thanks m8s,
this is the one I use, easy.... no power needed
http://www.elmstok.co.uk/details.php?prodId=271 (http://www.elmstok.co.uk/details.php?prodId=271)
though it looks like it costs a little bit more than what I've said! (indeed I bought it for my wife she's a primary school teacher and uses it very often, so the cost was worth for both of us!
About durability....looks good, I mean, to be just a coat of PVC on a piece of paper... not bad, I've a couple of pedals sold to a band's guitarist since 1 year... never heard him complaing about!
@Joel, I buy enclosure from Banzai, musikding.de and from RS Components, a little bit pricey... but I have a shop close to my office so I save on shipping costs!!
CIao
> Using a - @#$%, don´t know the english word for it - "Klebestift"
Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/?q=Klebestift):
"Klebestift" = "glue stick"
"Klebe stift" = "glue pen"
Google Translate sometimes comes up with VERY strange translations, but this one is good. As you know, long-words in German often break-up into short words; I broke Klebestift to Klebe stift to see if it still made sense. It does. The pen/stick difference is arbitrary... somehow "glue stick" became the customary english, but it is really a very-very fat pen with glue for "ink".
I was going to go with the "vintage" silkscreen approach myself. it was a popular craft back in the 1970's for printing on tile.
I think it's a lot of effort, go for it if that's your thing. If you don't have your own printing workshop, check locally, you may find a studio somewhere for 25 bucks a day and use their facilites. be warned you may spend a few days depending on your particular needs.
I mean, all you need is a black marker in your case, or even a label maker if you can get the labels stuck on right!
but if you're going with custom lettering and Title and perhaps a small graphic or logo...I think true screen printing is the way I would go personally.
Awesome ideas. Thanks everyone.
Silk printing (and as a graphic designer) is really the best idea but still... expensive. At least with me being so newbie on this and not getting any money from it.
Photo paper seems kind of interesting but the laminated version from arma61 seems a really better tool compared.
Waterslide... I don't know... Seems better to me than heat transfer. Maybe i'll buy both give it some lacquer on top and check how it works.
Inititally I think i'll go with DYMO. It serves the purposes and since I don't i'm specially attracted by graphics on pedals...
I admit that I cheat and print my stuff at work, since its easier for me to just drop a graphic or PCB mask on a screen with other artwork.
For me to get set up at home, minus consumables, I spent about $150. That only gets me 2 roller frame screens, hinges, and squeegees. I'm gonna try and get set up the rest of the way for home printing, but I'm looking at easily another $150 for emulsion, blocking solution, and all the reclamation materials. Also, still have to make a wash tank and probably another $50 or more to make an exposure unit. lol... I'm obviously not going the cheapest route. I'm also not going to be printing just pedals, though. I do a ton of other stuff using screenprinting.
You can get set up into a hobbyist kit for about $150 total, but (IMHO) you get what you pay for. You will probably only get a handful of decent prints out of it, wondering how anyone could make money doing this, lol... but, for hobby work, I guess it would be a tolerable situation. Honestly, after doing this at home compared to other methods, I'd go with the prints applied to the pedal, and etches.
What about etching guys?
Quote from: sendoushi on January 15, 2012, 01:18:42 PM
What about etching guys?
Laser Printer, and Photo Paper or PnP Blue (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=77) or (what I use because I get it cheap through work) Magic Touch CPM (http://www.themagictouch.com/cpm.html)
Others have used magazine paper as well as other materials. The laser printers use a plastic that is statically adhered to the paper and heated up, just like powder coating an enclosure. All you are going to do is transfer that plastic image from the paper to the surface you want by using heat. Lacquer thinner works great for cleaning up after etching.
Regarding etching- a continued question if you don't mind: If a sharpie marker were used to black out what you don't want etched, would that hold up long enough to get any depth of etch, or is plastic toner or blue PnP required?
Thank you,
CHAD
@chad, ive used sharpie just to touch up tiny faults...and yeah it works, but will be grainy....
ive tried using a sharpie to hand draw tiny circuit just as an experiment, it works...but yep its grainy as hell...
now if there were a nail varnish pen..that would be good... ;)
as a note, i usually tape down my pcbs while ironing, and have noticed that the 'sticky' left on the edge of the board will not etch off...hmmmm....
Quote from: deadastronaut on January 16, 2012, 05:49:38 AM
now if there were a nail varnish pen..that would be good... ;)
There is! Check out pencils from Edding. It´s a Edding 780.
Check: http://www.tigerpens.co.uk/acatalog/Edding_780_Paint_Marker_Metal_Framed_Bullet_Tip.html
I was asking about etching the enclosure, not the board ;) but I'm close to etching one or the other or both for the first time in the near future.
CHAD
It´s nearly the same, Chad. ;)
Quote from: Maik on January 16, 2012, 10:23:39 AM
It´s nearly the same, Chad. ;)
+1
Ignore, for a moment, Copper vs. Aluminum, and your process is exactly the same.
There is ONE exception, though... Bring "Metal vs Metal" back into the equation: Aluminum will etch a LOT faster than Copper will. If you use 15 minutes to etch a copper board, then plan on about 2-3 minutes to get a good etch on aluminum, and 5 minutes if you want a really deep etch. If you search around for "frequencycentral", you should be able to find some info from Rick. He has a really great process down, dilutes the FeCl, whole 9 yards. Somewhere on these boards, he (within the last year, maybe?) laid down his process in a post. Or just send him a PM and ask him if he would be kind enough to take a look at this thread, I guess. lol.
OK. Aluminum faster than copper, check every 2-3 minutes... now to find some FeCl somewhere locally.
CHAD
as always with boxes its all in the prep...sanding/designing/printing/cutting out/ ironing toner/masking...etching...sanding...painting...sanding...
box done....then drill.........then have a cup of tea......then.................................................................. ;)
Tea????
Rob ???
hmmmm... ;)
So many replies ehehe. I like the effect of etching. I have to see where i can get the solution to do it and buy those "papers" online.
I make my own rub-ons, like this:
Preparations: obviously the box is sprayed with desired color and then I put a clear coat on (makes it easier to correct mistakes).
The rub-ons:
1. Use a laserjet to print the reversed labels on a waxy paper. I use decal paper support sheets. The toner does not adhere very well (which is why this works) so don't touch the printout.
2. Spray the printout lightly with clear coat. I use Montana Gold for this because it dries slowly, which gives me a decent time window for the subsequent transfer. Do not use Montana for the actual clear coat of the box as it has distinctive yellow tone!
3. When the paint is sticky but not wet, apply the label on the box and rub it lightly with your nail. Remove the paper slowly from one end and if some parts were not transferred correctly, fold the paper back and rub some more.
Finishing: you want to protect your labels with a clear coat. Since the rub-ons will give a bit of structure apply one or two mist coats and let dry before the final clear coat.
I have found some versions of this using super77 (from 3M) and hairspray (!). I believe using clear coats is a bit better (and cheaper). I also recommend spraying the labels, not the box. It makes the transfer easier. And if you don't find the right time (in terms of "stickiness") the first time you can just throw the label away.
Sample:
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1114/odbig.jpg)
Quote from: arma61 on January 12, 2012, 07:26:45 AM
Hi
I do this way
- print graph, lables ecc, as many as possible, on 2 sheets standard A4 adhesive paper, either inkjet or laser, leaving about 2cm of blank margins
- pack the sheets together back to back
- laminating the sheets with a small home PVC laminator machines, costs about 20-30 euro
- cut the sheets through the margins, so the two sheets now can be splitted
- then I have the printed side plastic-coated and the back side still adhesive
- cut the lables/images and then stick them to the enclosure or anything else you need.
I tried this out and it works brilliantly. I was going to clear coat it afterwards, but I think it's fine as it is. Thanks for the idea arma61
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4059/20120902080947.jpg)
By jparsons (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jparsons) at 2012-09-01
Great job mate!!
Glad it also worked for you!
Indeed there's no need to cleat coat it, I usually clear coat only the sides, leaving just a little bit going on the top side, and the bottom.
Ciao
By the 'standard adhesive paper' you guys mean a glossy one, or matte? Isn't it too thick? All the adhesive sheets I've ever seen were nearly as thick as a regular printer paper, so that combined with the thickness of laminating foil would be kinda fat, I think. Would you please tell me something more about that paper?
Also, the photo paper method intrigues me. I think I'll compare both methods someday, and show the results.
And another thought - did anybody try using a chalk paper? I have loads of it, since it's commonly used here to transfer PCB layouts. Great quality - I even tried printing some photos on such paper with nice results. (Isn't photo paper simply a kind of high quality chalk paper?)
Quote from: arma61 on January 12, 2012, 07:26:45 AM
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/100_0565.jpg)
Tell me, is it white printed on red paper, or is it simply a white paper covered with red ink?
Quote from: meffcio on September 03, 2012, 08:41:35 AM
By the 'standard adhesive paper' you guys mean a glossy one, or matte? Isn't it too thick? All the adhesive sheets I've ever seen were nearly as thick as a regular printer paper, so that combined with the thickness of laminating foil would be kinda fat, I think. Would you please tell me something more about that paper?
Also, the photo paper method intrigues me. I think I'll compare both methods someday, and show the results.
And another thought - did anybody try using a chalk paper? I have loads of it, since it's commonly used here to transfer PCB layouts. Great quality - I even tried printing some photos on such paper with nice results. (Isn't photo paper simply a kind of high quality chalk paper?)
Tell me, is it white printed on red paper, or is it simply a white paper covered with red ink?
Ciao
this is just standard white A4 paper but adhesive i've found on ebay. The thickness, after peeling the back, is just
like the normal A4. Then I've it printed in a shop with a color laser printer, then laminated. I can say that
paper + plastic is not too thick, i mean if you hang it with your finger at the corner it still bends down a bit.
That's how this SC-HB Booster is made.
Ciao
Quoteas a note, i usually tape down my pcbs while ironing...
Not to blow the thread off topic, but... (blow sound)
I have a massive Austrian cookbook from the 1960s that has a really rough and textured hard cover binding I use when ironing. It keeps the pcb in place without tape. I wonder what chemicals are in the glue on your tape that prevents etching? Could be the start of a new technique... :icon_idea:
I think John Lyons (and others, of course) has an elegant solution - print on (or etch) something easy to work with and attach it to the pedal as a face plate.
If only one could put enclosures directly through the printer!
Quote from: arma61 on September 03, 2012, 10:17:01 AM
this is just standard white A4 paper but adhesive i've found on ebay. The thickness, after peeling the back, is just
like the normal A4. Then I've it printed in a shop with a color laser printer, then laminated. I can say that
paper + plastic is not too thick, i mean if you hang it with your finger at the corner it still bends down a bit.
Thanks :)
Quote from: garcho on September 03, 2012, 02:19:55 PM
I think John Lyons (and others, of course) has an elegant solution - print on (or etch) something easy to work with and attach it to the pedal as a face plate.
I just had a thought. It's kind of stupid idea, and an overkill, but what about transfering image onto a thin polished steel plate (like transfering onto the PCB), then laminating it? You could simply attach it to the case without laminating, and just add couple layers of clearcoat. But sometimes clearcoat can destroy the transfer, and after you laminate the sheet, it can wait for applying to the case for a long time.
Quote from: RandomGlitch on September 03, 2012, 04:00:31 PM
If only one could put enclosures directly through the printer!
I expect someone has already done similar thing somehow ;)
Hopefully soon, we'll be able to print enclosures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing).
Quote from: RandomGlitch on September 03, 2012, 04:00:31 PM
If only one could put enclosures directly through the printer!
Quote from: garcho on September 03, 2012, 02:19:55 PM
I think John Lyons (and others, of course) has an elegant solution - print on (or etch) something easy to work with and attach it to the pedal as a face plate.
http://www.pabr.org/pcbprt/pcbprt.en.html (http://www.pabr.org/pcbprt/pcbprt.en.html)
*also*
Quote from: garcho on September 03, 2012, 05:04:08 PM
Hopefully soon, we'll be able to print enclosures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing).
how about guitars? http://www.odd.org.nz/spider.html (http://www.odd.org.nz/spider.html)
custom knobs might be more in most folks price range: Chicken Head shaped chicken head knob (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7474)