DIYstompboxes.com

I came across this fuzz box recently, the Honey Special Fuzz;

(http://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/B/Billl/20111126/20111126132628.jpg)

(http://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/B/Billl/20111126/20111126133059.jpg)

(http://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/B/Billl/20110323/20110323205424.jpg)

It's got me MAJORLY intrigued  :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:. I did a search, and someone who has (had?) one did post here about it a while back. I PM'd them, but got no reply.

I would love to breadboard/clone this sucker, but I need to find someone out there whos got one.

Anybody out there got one?

Thanks,
Dino

That's a ton of components for a one-knob fuzz! Have you located any sound clips?

I want to say it's one of the many Superfuzz variants, like the assorted Shin-Ei octave fuzzes, the Ace-Tone, the Kay, the Royal, and countless others.  Some youtube videos would suggest that, as would the controls and the component assortment on the board.

But what the dickens are those two big inductors doing there?  :icon_eek: ???

OK, here's what there is on Youtube;



It seems to be misleading though, because I believe that he's stacking the Honey on top of the Super-Fuzz, so, what does it sound like on it's own? Who knows. Then again, when I took on the WEM Project V fuzz, it was blind journey into the wilderness as well. Fortunately, I ended up with a great sounding fuzz.

What are those two inductors doing there? Beckoning me.... calling out to me. What the hell else would they be doing there? :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

This thing has captured my imagination.

Yeah, I saw that one before I posted and had the same reaction as you.

Discofreq's database has it in with all the other Superfuzz derivatives: http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/honey/specialfuzz

Given the way that these things were being cranked out like sausages at the time, maybe the inductors were in preparation for being combined into a fuzz-wah but weren't actually used?  I mean, that seems like a ridiculous waste of parts, even IF the board was a sort of "universal".  But then, I don't know if all the contemporary manufacturing strategies we're all familiar with, and expect, had occurred to those pedal-makers at that time.  Who knows, it may have been easier and cheaper for them to get the boards stuffed with everything and then just wire up what they wanted, rather than have this lot partially stuffed one way, and that lot partially stuffed a different way.

I count 12 transistors in the board close-up (a better shot is found here: http://files.effectsdatabase.com/gear/pics/honey_specialfuzz_003.jpg ).  That seems like an awful lot for something as bonehead as a fuzz.  Six ought to be sufficient for a Superfuzz-like octave fuzz, so what are the others there for?  Unused tornado/surf/siren sounds?  heck, even the uits that provided wah, fuzz, and numerous sound effects only used 8 transistors.  I can see why this thing intrigues you.  The board pictures, especially the copper side, would suggest that the two inductors are simply paralleled to yield some designated value.

QuoteI count 12 transistors in the board close-up

I count 13, possibly 14, but 13 for sure.

I had someone tell me yesterday that it's "some sort of phase fuzz". Maybe those aren't all transistors, maybe some are fet's? Considering all the caps there as well, could it be plausible.

Noob question: Can inductors be used in a phase circuit?

I think this pedal has become my latest "mission in life". My enquiring mind needs to know. :icon_mrgreen: I've left a message for a guy on Youtube who has one, maybe two. Wish me luck.

i believe mark is right, it looks like the fuzz wah surf hurricane schematic...

i'll try and find it when i get back, i just downloaded it a couple days ago...

sorry in such a rush...but this is a honey fuzz wah

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/Wah-Volume-Surf-Tornado.gif)

could this be the beast? i found it on the web archive

This schem looks cool, but only has eight transistors and one inductor. Might be a related circuit though, who knows?

I mean, with functions like "Siren" and "Surf Hurricane" it HAS to be awesome, right?

Quote from: digi2t on March 15, 2012, 12:07:49 PM

QuoteI count 12 transistors in the board close-up

I count 13, possibly 14, but 13 for sure.

You're right.  I missed that one just below the diode pair because it was reflecting too much light.

There were a bunch of things that some of those 5-function wonders came with back then: "Surf" (slow amplitude modulation of a noise source), "Tornado/Hurricane" (slow amplitude modulation and swept filtering of a nose source), "Siren" (just like it sounds - an oscillator that goes up and down in pitch), and some had "tuners" built in (an oscillator that gave a low E to tune to).  I have no idea how many transistors any of those various functions required.  But throw all of them, plus an octave fuzz and a wah, into the same pedal, and 13 transistors is not unreasonable.

You can see on the PCB that the inductors are in series with something tapped between them, so they probably make one filter together. Some kind of active resonant T-filter probably.

I also have to compliment the PCB for its density and trace curviness. That kind of PCB design is a lost art.

yah, sorry, i was on my way out the door and wanted to get the schem up before i spaced it.

i'm pretty sure that they're indeed related tho...both say honey company. my bad tho.  :icon_redface:

i have to wonder if the schem for the fuzz exists somewhere tho...the one i posted came from some archaic polish site on the web archive.

according to the other forum, honey pedals were RARE re-branded shin ei's...so maybe looking at some of the shin-ei pedals we can find a match

errr...more research, honey was the name used by univox in japan.

so...maybe there's a univox fuzz wah out there...so much cross pollination it's gonna be hard to find.

i DID find the schem for a "honey fuzz" on the web archive... but it's only 6 transistors...the search continues.

but wondering...maybe it's two of these cascaded?

maybe the inductors were used to "tune" or notch the tone of the circuit?

i remember playing with inductors i salvaged from some old tube organs back in my tube amp days.

Discofreq's database has this whole family of Shin-Ei/Univox derivatives organized as 6-transistor and 8-transistor units.  No sign of more than 8 transistors.

So are you going to build this schem as a diversion while we're looking for the other? I mean, it's all there. You just need a 4P4T switch and an inductor of unknown value... :D

12 transistors, and 2 inductors would give some sense to the cascade theory. But, the 13th transistor is sorta puttin' a crimp in that. The thing that really blows my mind... only one knob  :icon_eek:.

I just really want to know what the hell is going on in there. This is ranking right up there on my Quest-o-meter, along side the Keio Singing Wah, the Phase II, and the WEM P.V.. I'm going to get to the bottom of this, even if it kills me  :icon_twisted:.

Actually, the junk food will probably kill me first, but you guys know what I mean  :icon_lol:.

according to this page (unfortunately none of the graphics are good) it's a shin-ei

http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://tix.gozaru.jp/shin-ei/*

it has a listing there for the h 1 fuzz....

honey was what univox was called in japan....shin ei, univox, etc....all pretty much the same.

i'm still searching, but indeed, my curiosity is peaked...why only one knob with that much stuff?
there's mention of it on the DAM forum, too...but there it says 12 transistors, not 13.

i couldn't get in; don't remember my password, or it was the OLD dam forum...so many sites...so little time..

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on March 15, 2012, 07:11:35 PM
errr...more research, honey was the name used by univox in japan.

but wondering...maybe it's two of these cascaded?

maybe the inductors were used to "tune" or notch the tone of the circuit?

yeah, the Univox connection.... same transistors 2SC828 as Superfuzz

There's that schematic you posted with 8 transistors w/ volume, surf, tornado wah...then, there's the Superfuzz.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Special Fuzz" was the 2 combined...

the thing is , there were so many freekin' variations made....who knows what the hell it is!!

too bad we couldn't find one to get better shots from.

I own a honey companion wah surf tornado siren and a national fuzz wah and the circuits are different than this Honey Special Fuzz. One thing Im sure about just by looking at the Honey Special Fuzz circuit is that it has the same Ge clipping configuration as an original superfuzz and the national fuzz wah and all the rebranded fuzz wahs made in Japan. I guess they all went thru the UNIVOX/UNICORD company.I too am looking forward to seeing a post of a schematic and layout for this circuit. I wonder how many of these Honey Special fuzzes were made?

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on March 15, 2012, 05:26:40 PM
according to the other forum, honey pedals were RARE re-branded shin ei's...so maybe looking at some of the shin-ei pedals we can find a match

a quick history lesson, hope you're all sitting comfortably!
(some info is a little hazy...)

-Shin-ei was the big musical instruments brand in Japan in the late 60s until the 80s(?)
-all lots of manufacturers emerging in the USA and the UK they wanted to get involved with the effects business as well
-it was convenient that the Japanese effects brand at the time called HONEY was going bankrupt
(you can look at EffectsDatabase to see the full line-up of Honey pedals - notice some familiar faces? there's one missing though)
-in 1969 Shin-ei took over production and started pumping these @#$%ers out not only in Japan but also across the whole world for Univox, Rose-Morris, Avora etc

now, this should be a testament to how god-awful the "Special" Fuzz must sound if Shin-ei were compelled to continue production of the ridiculous Surf-Siren-Hurricane pedal over it  :icon_lol: , but i'm still on a long hunt to find one of them because of how cool they look (outside and inside!) one of the big effects collectors said that this pedal is some sort of fuzz-phaser but wouldn't inductors suggest something wah-like? a LFO driven wah could give the impression that it's a phaser. another interesting thing to note is that i've seen/heard of FOUR of these pedals residing in Mexico - weird huh?! kind of like how loads of JHS pedals were exported to Canada.

a fun thing to note is the Honey version of the FY-6 Fuzz (a.k.a. Superfuzz) - the "Baby Crying"(!!!!) - pretty awesome that this circuit was actually designed in 1967. have yet to find one of those as well...
and then there's also the Guyatone FS-3 (http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/guyatone/fs/3) fuzzbox that seems clearly made by Honey (like the other Guyatone effects at the time were made by some other local firms - FS-1, FS-2, Bazz Box etc). this one is basically a variation of the Baby Crying.
there is, however, a pedal we see relatively often which looks strikingly similar to these mysterious Honey pedals - Shin-ei Uni-fuzz (http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/shinei/unifuzz) - personally i've never seen a Honey version of this one, anybody else?

if any of the info is off then by all means correct me (this includes effects collectors in Japan with infinitely more knowledge on this subject who found this thread via Google hits!)

Thanks for the info, and welcome to a first-time poster! Though, I see you've been registered longer than I have.  :D

Funny about the Mexico thing.

I know nightraven from "the other forum", he was instrumental in helping me with the WEM Project V fuzz. Aside from having a plethora of pedal knowledge (as seen by his post  :icon_mrgreen:), he's also a righteous dude.

Welcome to the forum, congrats on your first post here. Nice to see you on both sides of the border  :icon_lol:.

Like you mentioned, the coolness factor has got me cold here. I have... no... I NEED to get into this sucker. It's really bugging me. And the Mexico connection is bizzare as well. 2 out of the 3 owners that I've seen on the net of this pedal, are of Latino origin. I'm guessing that maybe the Honey brand was aimed at that market? Who knows  :icon_rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm still waiting for response to PM's I've sent. I'll keep everyone posted.

Cheers,
Dino

got it!! it's an octave fuzz AUTO WAH!!

translated (original link below)

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Billl/20110323/1300884571&ei=BEpjT9jTEeWG0QHBzInICA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CF0Q7gEwBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DHoney%2BSpecial%2BFuzz%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DpKE%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvns

"2011-03-23
HONEY Special Fuzz

Complex type , fuzz , specialties | 21:49

Effector rare brand of "HONEY" domestic legend.

Upper octave fuzz MFPs and auto-wah.

f:id:Billl:20111126132357j:image

Gain is not high enough of HONEY BABY CRYING Similarly, a retro sound.

Wow and to take periodic SPECIAL FUZZ mode will be a plus."


http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Billl/20110323/1300884571

we need someone who speaks japanese in on this so we can ask "bill" about the pedal more...

i used google translate, and asked if he may have a schematic for it, or be willing to take detailed gut shots.

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on March 16, 2012, 05:11:29 PM
got it!! it's an octave fuzz AUTO WAH!!

Awesome! I had an auto wah on my "to build" list. This should be fun!

dude, have ya tried escobedo's phunqnosis?

super easy, small, sounds great and would work well as an add on for a lot of fuzzes.

it appears this pedal tho gets a thumbs down...apparently it's less than unity gain when engaged.

well...that sucks. BUT....

we have the technology...we can make it better than it was....


all your pedals are belong to us....  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

i really wanna see this thing come together...i mean, look what we made happen with the pII? from a single set of botched schematics to not one, but 3 functional units to study, the first prototype built and sounding most excellent, and many more to follow...

i got faith, brothers. if this here collective can't figure it out, it plain kain't be done.

:icon_mrgreen:

thanks for the welcomes

i've talked to "Bill" in the past but i'm not sure if he owns a Special Fuzz. i think the pedal featured in the blog belongs to Voodoowrench - a different guy (not sure if he speaks English but he has a Youtube channel as well)

i think this project will come together very nicely because there are THREE Special Fuzzes owned by people on this very forum and if they don't chime in sooner or later i'll have to give 'em a gentle nudge :)

dude, welcome !!

grab a brewski  :icon_mrgreen:

i've "seen" ya other places too.

nice to meet ya, i really dig the way you think. ;) 

look forwards to seeing this come to life.

:icon_mrgreen:

sorry...my grey matter is green at the moment...lol

Quote from: nightraven on March 16, 2012, 06:33:10 PM
thanks for the welcomes

i've talked to "Bill" in the past but i'm not sure if he owns a Special Fuzz. i think the pedal featured in the blog belongs to Voodoowrench - a different guy (not sure if he speaks English but he has a Youtube channel as well)

i think this project will come together very nicely because there are THREE Special Fuzzes owned by people on this very forum and if they don't chime in sooner or later i'll have to give 'em a gentle nudge :)

If you know who to nudge, please do. I've PM'd, and messaged everyone who may have a connection to this pedal, but no replies so far  :icon_sad:. Octave fuzz, and auto-wah? WOW... cool!

at about 1:20 or so i think you can hear it on the demo with the superfuzz...

it may be neat to mess with, indeed!

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Billl/20101216/1292425370

Found voodoowrench's website; http://gozmez69.web.fc2.com/ (http://gozmez69.web.fc2.com/)

He's got an eclectic collection of stuff... but no way to contact him, other than Youtube  :icon_rolleyes:.

dude, that's still awesome tho....you can contact him thru youtube, and use google translate to talk to him...

that was how i found dj kaitop in japan for the KVR audio lost gems thread and recovered all them obscure vst's of his.

generally, i've found the japanese people to be some of the nicest and friendliest on earth, so with a bit of luck, he'll hook you up!!

or...if it's too much, let me know, and I'LL try for ya..say the word dino, and i'm on it like white on rice!

edit: suck. i can't get into the website URL you posted.

hey there folks!

well yes i am Pat the guy in Mexico that owns TWO of these... both not really working.

i am going thru a nasty divorce and have been moving from one apt. to another, but i'll try to make a demo of the "more-sounding" one and post it on youtube.

i KNOW these are rare as hen's teeth, and i've gotten LOTS of PM's on youtube etc. about 'em, but i have NO idea what i could ask for it/them.
but it'd be fantastic to see at least one of them ending up here... if not both!

gonna be selling lotsa old pedals soon (i hope - i must!), also have an ace tone fuzz master, lots of shin-ei siren wahs, NOS NADY tube distortion, etc. etc.
you know divorce ain't cheap....  :-\

anyways, stay tuned, i promise i'll be back soon - with lotsa good gut shots, for just in case.

i think the most coherent thing will be to throw 'em on ebay with no reserve or so... or anyone here dare shooting me a generous (but fair, by all means!) offer.
i wanna do my part too on clearing up the mystery about these and WHAT they do.

from what i recall it does sound fuzzy with some sort of phaser-ish overtone or so.

stay tuned,

Pat.

btw, according to the analog mike book...

honey was BEFORE shin-ei. they made the (in)famous "psychedelic machine", which is supposed to have been the 1st time the fuzz later to be known as the "super fuzz" AND the "uni-vibe" showed up. yes, both in ONE box. but a huge box.

he mentions the special fuzz is the (grand)daddy of al superfuzzes.
but he might be wrong.

honey then went bankrupt and/or became shin-ei.
and we know the rest... or not...  ::) :D

ok back to work!

Pat.

hey pat,
worst case scenario, would you be interested in loaning or trading one of the boxes to be lovingly dissasembled/cleaned repaired in the interest of resurrecting one of these beasts?

or...what would you consider a fair price?

just curious...i HATE to see shit go on ebay. everyone loses there...by the time the seller pays his pounds of flesh to ebay and paypal, he's pretty gaunt these days.

Quote from: Pacafeliz on March 27, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
hey there folks!

well yes i am Pat the guy in Mexico that owns TWO of these... both not really working.

i am going thru a nasty divorce and have been moving from one apt. to another, but i'll try to make a demo of the "more-sounding" one and post it on youtube.

i KNOW these are rare as hen's teeth, and i've gotten LOTS of PM's on youtube etc. about 'em, but i have NO idea what i could ask for it/them.
but it'd be fantastic to see at least one of them ending up here... if not both!

gonna be selling lotsa old pedals soon (i hope - i must!), also have an ace tone fuzz master, lots of shin-ei siren wahs, NOS NADY tube distortion, etc. etc.
you know divorce ain't cheap....  :-\

anyways, stay tuned, i promise i'll be back soon - with lotsa good gut shots, for just in case.

i think the most coherent thing will be to throw 'em on ebay with no reserve or so... or anyone here dare shooting me a generous (but fair, by all means!) offer.
i wanna do my part too on clearing up the mystery about these and WHAT they do.

from what i recall it does sound fuzzy with some sort of phaser-ish overtone or so.

stay tuned,

Pat.

When a woman can't tell if her husband is saying "Honey" when talking about her, or talking abouthis pedals, divorce can't be far away!  But I shouldn't joke.  I hope all proceeds smoothly for both of you and everyone moves on to a better life.

I don't know enough about e-bay to know whether you have to take special steps to appeal to Japanese buyers, but if you want to get more for the device you should probably consider finding a Japanese buyer.  Not that they are more naive or part with their money more easily, but I think the unit might have more collector appeal there.

Quote from: Pacafeliz on March 27, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
hey there folks!

well yes i am Pat the guy in Mexico that owns TWO of these... both not really working.

i am going thru a nasty divorce and have been moving from one apt. to another, but i'll try to make a demo of the "more-sounding" one and post it on youtube.

i KNOW these are rare as hen's teeth, and i've gotten LOTS of PM's on youtube etc. about 'em, but i have NO idea what i could ask for it/them.
but it'd be fantastic to see at least one of them ending up here... if not both!

gonna be selling lotsa old pedals soon (i hope - i must!), also have an ace tone fuzz master, lots of shin-ei siren wahs, NOS NADY tube distortion, etc. etc.
you know divorce ain't cheap....  :-\

anyways, stay tuned, i promise i'll be back soon - with lotsa good gut shots, for just in case.

i think the most coherent thing will be to throw 'em on ebay with no reserve or so... or anyone here dare shooting me a generous (but fair, by all means!) offer.
i wanna do my part too on clearing up the mystery about these and WHAT they do.

from what i recall it does sound fuzzy with some sort of phaser-ish overtone or so.

stay tuned,

Pat.

Pat,

First off, sorry to here about the divorce. Been there, done that, sucks big time. I feel for you brother.

Secondly, a million thanks for writing in. just hearing from you has made my week, month, year  :icon_cool:.

Listen, I`ll make you two offers. 1) If your willing, can you send me one? I`ll look it over, repair what needs repairing, and ship it back to you. I`ll cover the shipping both ways. While I have it, it will give me a chance to trace the circuit.
2) I`ll offer to buy one (or both, for the right price) outright.

Let me know via PM.

If you have any qualms about whether I`m above board, just ask around the forum. I think they`ll be a few people willing to vouch for me. I hold my reputation near and dear. After my divorce, it was all I had left  :icon_lol:.

Cheers,
Dino

dino... sounds pretty much like a deal to me. i think it'd be über-cool if we could have these ones sorted out and cloned, or whatever... my 2cent contribution to the (musical) mankind, or so.

PM me yer shipping addy, and i'll send one of 'em your way to experiment with, etc.

but lemme take/post some pics first to see which one is the better candidate, ok?

ok off to (my other...) work, damn i hate tuesdays.

b back later folks.
rock on!

Pat.

Thanks so much Pacafeliz! We can indeed vouch for Dino. Hopefully, we all get our DIY build and you get a WORKING unit to sell! (If you still decide to sell it)

pat....

YOU FREEKIN ROCK DUDE!!!

that said...

for a brother from another mother i've yet to meet physically, let me put it this way.

if i had to trust my damn worthless life to dino tsiptis, i wouldn't have a single worry.

that's the best endorsement i can give for the man.

your offer shows the caliber of your spirit too...sorry you're going thru hell, i've lost a wife but not thru divorce, all i can say is i think she
probably doesn't deserve you dude. i don't think she really has a clue.

not too many people would share with utter strangers like this.

i thank you heartily from the entire diy community.

namaste

jimi

HOLY CRAP.... THANKS GUYS! Really kind words, I feel truely blessed  :icon_redface:.

Pat, we'll wait for some pics, and then decide.

I've PM'd you my address.

Cheers,
Dino

oh thanks guys.... now you're making me blush too!  :icon_redface:

but i believe in God enough to know when i'm onto good grounds and spirits, if that makes any sense... ;)

btw, i'm (still) quite new here, and i don't know crappola about how to build a pedal or so... but i have been able to recap some of my old fender amps, and that's about what i can do with a soldering iron.

anyways, if you want to "get to know me" bit more... here's my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Pacafeliz
have fun... it's made for that.
oh and a BIT "informative" too...  :icon_wink:

rock on, and cheers...  it's friggin' BEER 'O CLOCK!!!

Pat.

Quote from: Pacafeliz on March 27, 2012, 10:20:46 PM

anyways, if you want to "get to know me" bit more... here's my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Pacafeliz

thanx...you really had me cracking up (with you) during your shin-ei demo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf-0qO87XFE&list=UUI3VXJtGwHKGJfE50gD7XXQ&index=8&feature=plcp


hours of fun when you're on drugs...

Quote from: LucifersTrip on March 27, 2012, 11:18:22 PM

Quote from: Pacafeliz on March 27, 2012, 10:20:46 PM

anyways, if you want to "get to know me" bit more... here's my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Pacafeliz

+1
thanx...you really had me cracking up (with you) during your shin-ei demo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf-0qO87XFE&list=UUI3VXJtGwHKGJfE50gD7XXQ&index=8&feature=plcp


hours of fun when you're on drugs...

whoa, it's getting WINDY in here....

LMAO

Quote from: Pacafeliz on March 27, 2012, 02:34:30 PMand i've gotten LOTS of PM's on youtube etc. about 'em

guilty  :icon_redface:

to be honest, Pat, i'm sure you'll make more on eBay than i can offer you for one of those monsters but it would be very awesome to have one of the talented pedal crafters here dissect one of 'em before they end up buried deep in a collection  :icon_lol:

ok i got the addy in the PM, so it should be on its way next week or so, stay tuned!

btw i got some "updates", but i'm too tired right now to type a long post.
tomorrow... (maybe even a short video...)

rock on,

Pat.

Quote from: Pacafeliz on April 01, 2012, 01:08:45 AM
ok i got the addy in the PM, so it should be on its way next week or so, stay tuned!

btw i got some "updates", but i'm too tired right now to type a long post.
tomorrow... (maybe even a short video...)

rock on,

Pat.

Good to hear Pat. We're waiting with bated breath to find out what's going on in that puppy  :icon_question:.

Thanks in advance for the updates. I've replied to your PM.

Cheers,
Dino

Just giving this a bump. I haven't had any news from Pat, and no reply to my last PM.

I'm just wondering if we're going to get this puppy solved...... :icon_rolleyes:

Cheers,
Dino

yes, sorry. i promise this WILL happen, but i've been SO darn busy lately... and the post office is quite a drive away.
but i should be able to get it out tomorrow.
stay tuned!

Pat.

EXCITED!

One does not come across something like this a lot.

Sounds like you got a nice collection there.. anything else in there that might spark our interest?

Quote from: Pacafeliz on April 17, 2012, 01:26:25 PM
yes, sorry. i promise this WILL happen, but i've been SO darn busy lately... and the post office is quite a drive away.
but i should be able to get it out tomorrow.
stay tuned!

Pat.

OK, thanks Pat. I was just wondering, since it's been a spell since we heard from you. Glad to see that you're still on-board  :icon_biggrin:.

Cheers,
Dino

Quote from: ~arph on April 17, 2012, 04:46:31 PM
EXCITED!

One does not come across something like this a lot.

Sounds like you got a nice collection there.. anything else in there that might spark our interest?

hmmm don't know...
i do have a rebranded shin-ei fuzz carcass (parted out and not working, which someone apparently tried to repair - and failed...), some shin-ei siren wahs, and more usual stuff like the space echo and a roland DC-50 "digital" (it's not!) chorus and the ace tone fm-2 i mentioned above.
i do also have an early boss tw-1 touch wha that needs repair, a marshall shredmaster that needs some work, etc. the rest is pretty much standard stuff...

lemme check what else...

b back later (still at work)

Pat.

here's some...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/Guitars/DSC01325.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/Guitars/DSC01326.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/Guitars/DSC01327.jpg)

Wow! Nice collection!

Badump-bump-bump!

love that video with the siren / tornado .... hurricane alarm !

close the window please ....

lol

great videos man , also i want that dod blue delay , the double pedal , i had one , till my "buddy' plugged in his remote control car battery into it and poof . i tossed it years ago like a goof , but .

keep on with the videos man !

I don't know what happened to this guy. He was all keen to contribute to the cause, but he's completely fallen off the radar. Didn't even reply to my last PM.

Guess we'll never see the Honey Special Fuzz clone come to life. Bummer.

:icon_frown:

hey guys, sorry... YES IT WILL happen, golden promise!!!

i'm currently in costa rica (long story), but i'll get back to mexico on august 2nd, and will still have 2 or 3 weeks of vacation left... IT WILL HAPPEN.

SO sorry to drag this out so long...  :icon_redface:

it will be worth the wait... but as good ole TP used to say... "the waiting is the hardest part".

so... head up, fellas.

rock on, greets and best wishes from FRIGGIN' HOT costa rica!

Pat. (sippin' on an ice cold cuba libre... yesss)  ;D

Quote from: Pacafeliz on July 17, 2012, 09:52:24 PM
hey guys, sorry... YES IT WILL happen, golden promise!!!

i'm currently in costa rica (long story), but i'll get back to mexico on august 2nd, and will still have 2 or 3 weeks of vacation left... IT WILL HAPPEN.

SO sorry to drag this out so long...  :icon_redface:

it will be worth the wait... but as good ole TP used to say... "the waiting is the hardest part".

so... head up, fellas.

rock on, greets and best wishes from FRIGGIN' HOT costa rica!

Pat. (sippin' on an ice cold cuba libre... yesss)  ;D

Yo Pat!!! Good to hear from you again. Thought you fell off the radar big time.

Like I`ve said before, I don`t mind covering the shipping. PM me with the details. There`s a lot of inquiring minds (including me!) that would love to see this circuit fleshed out.

And while your at it, have a brewsky for me, will ya? :icon_cool:

Cheers,
Dino

YES IT WILL happen

Yay! Can't wait...

So I think the consensus was that it's an up-octave, auto-wah fuzz? Holy mother am I interested in making one. Especially with switches for the auto-wah/octave. Mmmmmm......

to go off topic while we patiently wait, what's the "peak" box?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/Guitars/DSC01327.jpg)

I can't wait!

thanks guys!

oh i'm having a splendid time... plus, as i'm just getting divorced (etc.), my dad's intrudicing me to all his "big shot" friends, to see if i can get a good job down here...  :icon_cool:
we'll see.

tis a beautiful country. climate is PERFECT and the beer is always cold. as long as you drink it FAST!  :icon_biggrin:

btw, the PEAK is a fuzz tone (or was it fuzz box), those were made in japan and rebranded. but this one ain't hardly got any guts anymore.

Pat.

If it's to anybody's interest I've tracked down one of these here in Sweden, and the owner is willing to sell it for (quite hefty) 500 usd.
it's more than I can afford, but I would gladly help out if someone has an interest in buying it.

if we could get 500 people to throw in a dollar....

no need, pat is hooking us up. patience, people, patience!! ;)

Quote from: hobo_hephew on July 20, 2012, 02:21:03 AM
If it's to anybody's interest I've tracked down one of these here in Sweden, and the owner is willing to sell it for (quite hefty) 500 usd.
it's more than I can afford, but I would gladly help out if someone has an interest in buying it.

that's about half the price of the last one i heard of for sale FWIW

Alright folks...

This is about to see the light of day  :icon_cool:. Got tired of waiting on Pacafeliz, and hobo_hephew came to the rescue. I mean SHIT MAN! I love sun, surf, and beer just as much as the next person, but we got serious business to care of here  :icon_eek:.

hobo and I have managed to deal, and I've got one on the way from Sweden. I'd like to say a great big fat THANKS to hobo_hephew for doing the leg work on this. I'm putting everybody on notice here; put this guy on your "good guy" list.

Another hens tooth about to be revealed. Yeah baby!

sweet!!! go guys, go!

i can't WAIT to see the guts in this thing!

 :icon_redface:
ugh... sorry... i'm catching my flight back to mexico tomorrow.

well, still cool you found another one. i'll be following this thread anyways.

Pat.

IT HAS ARRIVED!!!!

It about as retarded as I never could have imagined... in a good way!

It is... ahem.... an octave fuzz, with a fixed speed phaser type effect built in for good measure  :icon_eek:.

The fuzz is nasty  :icon_twisted:. Sort of close to the Ludwig fuzz, but with some Ampeg Scrambler thrown in. Then when you hit the "SPECIAL" switch, that kicks in the phaser effect. The direct switch bypasses the fuzz, so you can only treat the clean signal.

Video and pics coming later today, have to change the alternator on my car first  :icon_evil:. It is by far, the nastiest piece of fuzz kit I've ever had the pleasure to play through. And the harmonic feedback content, especially octave-wise, just blows whatever few brain cells I have left to smithereens.

I'm wondering though, if the "Special" effect shouldn't maybe give more "auto wah" instead? I mean, what the hell are those 2 inductors doing there? Anyway, more to come....

well... i can still send (really!) mine, for comparison or so...
just in case you're not too pissed at me...  :icon_redface:

i feel bad and guilty. let me clean up my name/face, will ya?  :-\

pat, relax, bro...nobody is holding anything against you!!

please do send it to dino, he'll take real good care of it, and it gives us two to compare notes on.

this is AWESOME, bros!! can't wait to hear this thing, and better yet, BUILD THE MOFO!!!  :icon_mrgreen:

Good news Sounds fun. Go Dino!

Can't wait for the vid!

Quote from: Pacafeliz on August 13, 2012, 04:55:00 PM
well... i can still send (really!) mine, for comparison or so...
just in case you're not too pissed at me...  :icon_redface:

i feel bad and guilty. let me clean up my name/face, will ya?  :-\

No hard feelings Pat. It's just that when I get on a crusade, I can get pretty "mission orientated", for lack of a better word. Ludwig clone project can atest to that  :icon_lol:. If you still want to send your unit(s?), you're welcome to. I won't need them long, and like Jimi mentioned, it would be nice to compare them. PM me if you're still game.

OK, moving right along, the video. Here it is, and pics will follow soon. I just ran out of time tonight. I should add, that this video might not be totally representative of the pedals sound. Upon inspection after the video, I found an electro cap that was toast (popped bottom), and maybe others that might need replacing, see my question below.



For the record, this puppy sports 13 ( :icon_eek:) transistors. From my primary inspection, they're all 2SC828's. A good thing, since I stocked up a crapload of them for the Keio Singing Wah-never happened project. Great news is that I managed to spec the inductors. They're the round, red, TDK ones, and they both have the number "41" printed on the backsides. Going down the Thomas Organ parts list, they correspond to part number "80-5041-7 INDUCTOR, 4 HY  #41". So a 4 Henry inductor, times two, it is. So thoughtful of them to number them back at the TDK plant. God bless their souls!

I'll get the pics and tracing done ASAP. Hope you enjoy the video. It's the only one around of this baby by itself... not being obliterated by a Super Fuzz. :icon_mrgreen:

A question here; I was arbitrarily probing transistor voltages, when by accident, my Positive DMM probe touched the top of electro cap. You know, they have that plastic jacket with the writing and polarity printed on it, and there's a hole on top where you can see the can. It so happens that I had the pedal plugged into my small amp, and I had the headphones on. When I touched it, I could hear a buzz in the headphones. I did the same to all the electros, but only 3 gave me that buzz. Are these caps toast? I'm thinking that maybe they've dried out, and are leaking by, hence the buzz when I touch the can with the DMM probe. Maybe I'll change one out, and see if it makes a difference. Hell, after 40 years, I should be changing them all, right? Could be why the "Special" effect is stronger on the fuzz, than on the direct signal.

Cheers,
Dino

Cool!

cool!!!

well yes i've noticed that i get some (quite similar, but ultra LOW in volume) outta one of my pedals... when i plug it in THE OTHER WAY ROUND (input vs. output). weird.

now... sure hope to not upset anyone. and you guys are the tech-experts here, but take a looksie here, it's outta "analog man's guide to vintage effects" book. great read with lotsa nice pedal porn.  :icon_biggrin:

first some info about Honey:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/DSC02495.jpg)


and then this about the "psychedelic machine" (in the "hen's teeth" section of the book!).

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/DSC02493.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Pacafeliz/DSC02494.jpg)

so from what i can understand is that this pedal (special fuzz) is the FATHER of the psychedelic machine, which itself is the mother of the superfuzz and univibe.
so it makes "sense" (?) that there might be some sorta phaser in the special fuzz... pre-univibe circuit and all.

or am i talking BS here?

Pat.

ps: i'll send one of mine (or both?) your way anyways and let you know when it's done. should be in the next 48h. for real, this time, ok?  :icon_redface:

Pacafeliz, thanx for the excerpt...very cool to read

...and digi2t, excellent demo vid!   fuzz w/ special, even tho it's a phase, sounds alot like an auto wah...like a Superfuzz thru an auto wah.

I think the first mod should be controlling the speed of that auto phase.

cool

@Pat - Excellent piece of historical data. Helps to narrow down the age of this baby. I read the same thing as you, that this pedal pre-dates the Super Fuzz. I've listened to a couple of Super Fuzz videos, and this one seems to have that same "metallic" roar. I was actually pretty surprised when I first plugged into it, and hit the first chords. I was maybe expecting something a bit more, I don't know, gated or splatty maybe? But no, the fuzz has really got legs of it's own. Interestingly enough, the same twin DA-90 diodes found in the Super Fuzz, are also found here. That, combined with a plethora of 2SC828's leads me to believe that this is indeed a Super Fuzz circuit, or a VERY close relative, providing the fuzz
Like I said, if you want to send both, that's cool. I'd be more than happy to look at the broken one as well, pro bono. Having more than one to look at would really help validate any readings I take from this one as well.

@LucifersTrip - I really can't put my finger on whether it's phase, or autowah, that I'm hearing. I was surprised by the fact that the inductors are 4 Henry. I was sort of expecting maybe 250 - 500mH? You know, you're usual run of the mill stuff. Then again, I'm not brilliant enough to analyze exactly what's going on here, that's why I want to get the lead out and draw this puppy out. Then the experts can render judgement. And yes, having another knob to keep the volume knob company, would be choice. Again, our resident circuit dissectors will let us know if that's possible. 

My guess is those inductors aren't in the audio path at all but the core of a phase-shift sine wave oscillator. The large values seem consistent with the slow speed of the sweep.

dino, it's been my experience that electros that buzz when you touch them are bad...the casing SHOULD BE isolated from the terminals, and if it isn't, should be at ground potential (connected to outer wrap of the cap)...either way, if it buzzes, i believe it's partially shorted...there's no way touching ground should make it buzz.

i had the issue on my ludwig, remember? ;)

hope this helps bro...

bummin', can't watch the video till later... can't wait!! ;)

Dino,

Don't forget to take some detailed pics of the trace and component sides. Some of us PCB folks would greatly appreciate it  :icon_lol:

Thanks for taking this on!!

Quote from: LucifersTrip on August 14, 2012, 03:13:30 AM
I think the first mod should be controlling the speed of that auto phase.

Yes, for sure!
Sounds pretty good Dino.
I have gotten signal touching the top of new electro caps Dino.
Not sure this means much but I don't know the construction of them.
R.G.?  :D

....I'm turned on.

QuoteI have gotten signal touching the top of new electro caps Dino.
Not sure this means much but I don't know the construction of them.
R.G.? 

Yeah, hopefully R.G. can shed some light on the capacitor issue. I fell upon it by accident. Actually, I'll try doing the same thing on one of my builds, and see if they do the same thing.

OK, I just had enough time this morning to shoot some gut shots, here they are;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3006.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3005.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3003.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3002.jpg)

I shot two of the trace side, having the wires in different positions for clarity. Note that the board is flipped upwards vis-a-vis the component side picture, revealing the traces. I'll post another of the component side tomorrow, but I'll run it through Paint, and annotate the transistor legs, capacitor orientation, and anything else that's not visible. That will make it easier to transfer the connection points to the trace side.

Enjoy the porn! :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: digi2t on August 14, 2012, 12:26:30 AM
Maybe I'll change one out, and see if it makes a difference. Hell, after 40 years, I should be changing them all, right? Could be why the "Special" effect is stronger on the fuzz,

Nope, a phase effect is always stronger on a signal with more harmonic content, so that sounds perfectly normal.

Brilliant pics Dino!!!  :o

Awaiting your expertly crafted schematic. Then it is off to do a PCB  ;D

Quote from: ~arph on August 15, 2012, 06:32:41 AM

Quote from: digi2t on August 14, 2012, 12:26:30 AM
Maybe I'll change one out, and see if it makes a difference. Hell, after 40 years, I should be changing them all, right? Could be why the "Special" effect is stronger on the fuzz,

Nope, a phase effect is always stronger on a signal with more harmonic content, so that sounds perfectly normal.

Yup, you`re right. The Ludwig is proof of that. But, the buzzing I get into the audio when I touch the can with my DMM probe still bugs me. I`ve ordered some good quality Nichicon`s as replacements.

As for the pictures, having the girlfriend`s camera stolen 2 years ago down in Mass. was the best thing. Got me.... uh, I meand HER, a nice new Fuji for X-mas. It`s the cats a$$. :icon_lol:

You know, staring at the trace side, everything is so linear on this PCB, that I can almost see the vero layout in it. Although it`s a real porcupine, might be alright on vero. Especially considering that I myself tend to like standing up resistors on my layouts.

honey fuzz pcb fade 1 (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SnG-eDv49BM/UCu6wY20bcI/AAAAAAAAAZ0/N0kg3RDK2w4/s704/honeyfuzzfade1.gif)

honey fuzz pcb fade 2 (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pzD4CV60hBM/UCu_BLFQy9I/AAAAAAAAAaU/HvkAh598reM/s704/honeyfuzzfade2.gif)

Neat fades... Now read all values.. that's gonna hurt you brain..

Quote from: deckardEnhance 224 to 176. Enhance, stop. Move in, stop. Pull out, track right, stop. Center in, pull back. Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop. Enhance 34 to 36. Pan right and pull back. Stop. Enhance 34 to 46. Pull back. Wait a minute, go right, stop. Enhance 57 to 19. Track 45 left. Stop. Enhance 15 to 23. Give me a hard copy right there.

:P

So, 13 transistors in all?

Quote from: Mark Hammer on August 15, 2012, 12:33:35 PM
So, 13 transistors in all?

Yes Sir. Lucky 13  ;D. At first glace, I get the impression that 6 of them are for the fuzz. I haven`t really studied it in depth yet (damn work!), but half the board looks a lot like a Uni-Fuzz/Super Fuzz relative. Now that you`re here Mark, have you had any experience with electro caps buzzing into the audio when you touch the can with the DMM probe? Neg. probe connected to ground, effect on, I have three electro caps that cause a significant buzz in the audio when I touch the can with the other probe. Is this normal? The others are silent. I always thought that the metal can is insolated.

@artifus - That has got to be the neatest thing I`ve seen in a while! COOL! BTW, the fade 1 lines up better than the 2.

@arph - Slow and steady is gonna win that race. :icon_lol:

Quote from: digi2t on August 15, 2012, 01:05:14 PM@artifus - That has got to be the neatest thing I`ve seen in a while! COOL! BTW, the fade 1 lines up better than the 2.

yeah, it was done in a hurry - at least i didn't post the back to front upside down one! (i very nearly did). hope it helps.

only took two minutes with freeware: open image in paint.net (http://getpaint.net/), import second image as layer, open layer properties to access opacity slider, flip and align images, open licecap (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=licecap&l=1), hit record and adjust opacity slider. should prolly have spent a little more time aligning the layers but hey ho. need to work on getting the file size down a tad too.

Quote from: digi2t on August 15, 2012, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: Mark Hammer on August 15, 2012, 12:33:35 PM
So, 13 transistors in all?

Yes Sir. Lucky 13  ;D. At first glace, I get the impression that 6 of them are for the fuzz.

Six transistors for a fuzz screams Superfuzz, although there are many variants of that same basic topology(same way there are a zillion Fuzz Face derivaties), and there is no reason why this couldn't be yet another....with a nifty twist.

The pedal only has one knob, which is for volume. I'm thinking that the clone can probably support a fuzz intensity control, and maybe a phase rate control (if possible). Perhaps a tone control as well? Make the fuzz/direct switch a footswitch, and package the whole thing in a 1590DD.

Going to try and have all the components identified by the weekend.

OK, step one, component identification, is complete. Here's the lay of the land;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/Components.jpg)

Now on to tracing....

Excellent work!

Man, I hope we can figure out a way to modulate the phasing.....mmmmmmm.......

I'll be working on a schematic and PCB this weekend :D Thanks!!!!!!

Here is the trace side, with the components drawn in;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/Tracesidecomponents.jpg)

Take note the the image is flipped up, and then mirrored. Makes it easier to visually transfer the component to the trace. At least for me... ;D
All you have to do is take the first picture with all the components, turn it upside down, and everything falls into place. Should be easier to draw the schematic.

Hope it helps.

Hope it helps

Hope it helps?! It is basically the schematic! I'm sure that took a lot of time and effort. Thank you!

awesome...AWESOME..

can't wait for the vero version!! <evil, evil grin> :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

Quote from: mth5044 on August 16, 2012, 01:48:34 PM
Hope it helps

Hope it helps?! It is basically the schematic! I'm sure that took a lot of time and effort. Thank you!

I've always believed that "Time and Effort" is usually qualified by the result. I tend to find that the more "time and effort" I put into something, the better (in most cases  :icon_mrgreen:) the result.

Also, considering that I'm not the most gifted, brain-wise, in electronics, I find that I must contribute here in other ways. Hence, putting in some "time and effort" is not just for everyones benefit here, but for mine as well, when the wheel comes around, and my a$$ is in the sling.  :icon_lol:

I've been looking at the layout somemore, and the SuperFuzz comparison is slowly falling by the way side. It looks to me like the fuzz section is only comprised of 4 trannies. Two for the gain, and two for the octave. The number 3 and 6 slot trannies akin to the SuperFuzz circuits seem to be AWOL. Also, I noticed at the input to the fuzz section, that the 22K resistor is before the 10uF cap. This resembles the Unicord SuperFuzz, which is opposite to the Univox layout. Don't know if it makes a difference, buts it's an interesting bit of pedal "chicken or egg" archeology  :icon_lol:.

Another point, the octave section is basically the same as other SuperFuzz circuits, minus the 10K trimmer used in SuperFuzz's to balance the octave effect. Could be an easy addition here.

Quote from: digi2t on August 17, 2012, 10:56:46 AMI've always believed that "Time and Effort" is usually qualified by the result. I tend to find that the more "time and effort" I put into something, the better (in most cases  :icon_mrgreen:) the result.

time and effort - energy.

- very precious resources that are not so abundant to all.

Just noticed that there is a resistor missing on the trace side picture.... DOAH!!!

Split the picture in quarters, in the upper left quadrant, smack dab in the middle. There are two bare pads, surrounded by 2 trannies, two 10uF caps, a 1M and 4.7K resistors. There is a 1M resistor missing between the pads here.

I'll update the image asap, I'm working night shifts right now.

Sorry folks  :icon_redface:

Hey Digi2t, could you let me know what wires go where? Thanks. Almost done with schematic!

Quote from: mth5044 on August 18, 2012, 09:00:37 PM
Hey Digi2t, could you let me know what wires go where? Thanks. Almost done with schematic!

That`s great dude. Did you catch my earlier post on the missing resistor? I`m working nights this weekend, but I`ll try and update the picture tomorrow.

I`ll draw out the wiring and try to post that tomorrow as well. If not tomorrow, Monday for sure.

I really appreciate you doing the schematic. Super kind of you. I hand drew it yesterday, it`ll be interesting to compare to yours. I`m going to start a vero layout in the next couple of weeks.

I`m still on the hunt for the inductors. I haven`t had a reply from one place that has them listed in their parts list. I did however pick up a capacitance/inductance meter from Ebay yesterday. I`m thinking that maybe we might be able to use a small audio transformer.

The quest continues..... :icon_mrgreen:

I saw it, but I forgot about it haha. Thanks for the reminder. Hopefully our schematics will line up. I'm doing mine in Eagle and plan on making a PCB, probably 2 layer.

Perhaps for inductors we could roll our own with the small bear kit. There are 4H inductors on mouser, but they are 18$ each  :'(

OK, the 4 Henry inductor dilemma might be solved. Through my internet travels, I happened upon information on guitar Varitone construction. This led to discussions on using the primary side of audio transformers as inductors for the Varitone construction, which finally brought me this wonderful tidbit of info;

42TL022 1.5K Ohms .56 Henry
42TL021 4K Ohms 1.5 Henries
42TL018 7K Ohms 2.6 Henries
42TL019 10K Ohms 3.75 Henries
42TL025 17K Ohms 6.4 Henries
42TL017 20K Ohms 7.5 Henries

Looks like a close enough match on the 42TL019. Only $2.12 at Mouser  :icon_cool:. Backorder until November though  :icon_frown:. Oh wait! Smallbear has them as well, at $2.75. :icon_biggrin:

Good thing I have a couple on hand. Got them for the Gemini III fuzz, which uses the primary as a pickup simulator. Had the solution sitting on my bench the whole time. :icon_lol:

*EDIT* - I've updated the trace component picture to add the resistor, plus a couple of clarifications, and I've numbered the connection points. The updated picture might be a bit slow in appearing, so check back later if you don't see the wires numbered.

Here is the wiring diagram, the numbers correspond to the numbers on the trace component picture.

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/Wiring.jpg)

ALERT ALERT!!!!

Thanks to some sharp eyes at the other forum, there was also an error in the traces of the PCB picture. Seems I got a bit carried away with the brush in Paint, and I inadvertantly connected two traces in the upper right hand corner. Right between the E, and the 47K resistor. It doesn't look like it in the full color pic's, but that's because a lead is hiding the cut. I should have double checked with the board itself.  :icon_redface:

It now corrected, and updated. Correct version should appear shortly, though Photobucket is a bit slow.

SORRY!! :icon_redface:

Schem available at www.freestompboxes.org

free stompboxes . org that is. Is that rediculous block still there!? Oh wait! Let's say I'll change my footer if that block is removed ;D

Quote from: Dirk_Hendrik on August 20, 2012, 12:39:54 PM
Schem available at www.....org

free stompboxes . org that is. Is that rediculous block still there!? Oh wait! Let's say I'll change my footer if that block is removed ;D

There are three corrections to be noted on Dirk's schematic;
C1 = 10uF
R5 = 2K2
R25 = 4K7

Everything else looks pretty good to me.

Here is the link to the file, with the corrections noted; http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=47784&g2_GALLERYSID=79514b38a1a42ecd957d9d55ad96a64f (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=47784&g2_GALLERYSID=79514b38a1a42ecd957d9d55ad96a64f)

Nice schematic, Dirk! You beat me  :icon_lol:

Interesting stuff. Don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere but the stuff round T10 and T11 are sine wave LFOs, simulator says the T10 one is about 1Hz and the T11 one is 3ish. These then get mixed to give a semi random modulation waveform, you can sort of hear that in Dino's video. A quick and easy mod would be to lift R27 or R29 that would give you two speeds of straight sine wave modulation. The R30 and R31 resistors can be made a bit bigger or smaller to change the speed, you can't vary them much though or it stops oscillating. You'd possibly need a dual pot to keep then the both the same value or it might work just changing one of them.

The inductors appear to make a bandpass filter, basically a Wah.

Quote from: slacker on August 21, 2012, 07:41:40 AM
Interesting stuff. Don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere but the stuff round T10 and T11 are sine wave LFOs, simulator says the T10 one is about 1Hz and the T11 one is 3ish. These then get mixed to give a semi random modulation waveform, you can sort of hear that in Dino's video. A quick and easy mod would be to lift R27 or R29 that would give you two speeds of straight sine wave modulation. The R30 and R31 resistors can be made a bit bigger or smaller to change the speed, you can't vary them much though or it stops oscillating. You'd possibly need a dual pot to keep then the both the same value or it might work just changing one of them.

The inductors appear to make a bandpass filter, basically a Wah.

Excellent work Ian. Gives us a good idea of the lay of the land, and a decent idea of where to tweak for a possible adjustable rate mod. Nicely done.

On another note, my unit doesn't sport the "Honey Co. Ltd." moniker, like the one at the beginning of the thread. I'm wondering if mine isn't an early (1967) unit. Maybe they wanted to test the market first? Or, on the initial run, the name of the company hadn't been established yet? But then again, the "HF-01" on the PCB kind of gives the impression of "Honey Fuzz-01", so maybe the company name was indeed established. Maybe they screwed up the initial batch of badges? Who knows. Here's a close up of mine;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3007.jpg)

But then, we end up seeing the "HF" on some other fuzz models too. Like the Guyatone FS-3 for example;

(http://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/B/Billl/20101215/20101215091437.jpg)

Wow. Some real head spinning stuff. Anyway, for more pedal porn, this is a great page; http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Billl/ (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Billl/)

Also, the original battery cover on mine was AWOL. Pretty well standard fare, after nearly 50 years! A previous owner had made an effort, with a piece of aluminium. Functional, but kind of lacking, in the looks department.

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3008.jpg)

This picture shows a unit, with the original cover;

(http://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/B/Billl/20111126/20111126132954.jpg)

It then occured to me, having recently dismantled an old Farfisa organ, that I had recouped some nice pieces of cadmium plated sheet metal. The back cover is cadmium plated as well, so maybe I was on to something here? I decided to put that aircraft sheet metal course I took years back to task. After 45 minutes of cutting, bending, grinding, fileing, and drilling, I think I came up with something a little more authentic. Only mechanical difference is that I made the ears longer on mine, to strengthen the door more. The result;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3009.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3010.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3011.jpg)

Cover screw courtesy of the Farfisa as well  :icon_cool:. Just need to find a piece of white, retro looking, foam now. One rubber (uh, pertified rubber) foot was missing as well, but I did manage to find some identical looking ones on the net. They're in transit.

I love making "Honey" out of dogsh*t (pardon the pun  :icon_mrgreen:). Doesn't always work mind you, but sometimes, you get lucky.

Um, is it just me or is T12/T13 yet another Fuzz Face variant?

T12 and T13 are not really a FF variant note the feedback from T13 collector to T12 base, that makes a different.  Then look at the Big Cheese schematic

OK, I'm half way to doing a vero of the Ludwig  :icon_eek:.

This must be the most complex vero I've ever done, at 13 trannies (not to mention the two 42TL019 audio transformers!). For some bizarre reason, it was almost one of my fastest. I dunno, so don't ask. Here it is;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/HoneySpecialFuzzLayout.jpg)

It's using the same component numbers as Dirk's schematic, and the wire connection numbers as my wiring drawing.

Needs to be verified....

I'm going to bed now....

Quote from: digi2t on August 22, 2012, 01:02:15 AM
OK, I'm half way to doing a vero of the Ludwig  :icon_eek:.

Ludwig? Old projects giving you flashbacks?

Quote from: Keppy on August 22, 2012, 10:43:32 AM

Quote from: digi2t on August 22, 2012, 01:02:15 AM
OK, I'm half way to doing a vero of the Ludwig  :icon_eek:.

Ludwig? Old projects giving you flashbacks?

:icon_lol:

It's just that I was thinking that there are 26 (if I remember correctly) transistors in the Ludwig, so I figured that I was half way there.

Actually, doing a vero of the Ludwig would be pretty epic. It's almost tempting. It's the masochist in me screaming to get out  :icon_mrgreen:.

Update,

I found a couple of errors on the layout, and I've updated it. It sometimes take Photobucket some time to update an image, so double check what you're downloading. Also, I managed to reduce the width by a row of holes as well. Here is the same layout, but with the BOM as well;

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=47823&g2_serialNumber=1)

I've uploaded everything, including schematic and wiring diagram, to the gallery; http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/veros/Honey+Special+Fuzz/ (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/veros/Honey+Special+Fuzz/)

Still unverified, but I'm slowly slogging along.

OK, I had some time, so I did a triple check, and I did spot some errors. They are now corrected, and I would use this to build with. Here is the updated versions, with and without the BOM.

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/HoneySpecialFuzzLayout_FULL_new.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/HoneySpecialFuzzLayout_new.jpg)

The smallest enclosures I use are the 1590BB style, so this vero is sized to fit widthwise. I figured that way, if another pot, or switch, enters the fray, they'll still be room.

Updated in the gallery as well, also adding some more pics of the real unit, as well as two shots of the trace side for those who wish to confection their own PCB.

holy cow, that's a lot of transistors!!!

having finally gotten a working version of the superfuzz built, i'm ready to tackle this one i think.

gonna check over the BOM and see what i need to order....

hey dino, any chance you might have another dozen or so of the 828's you could sell me?

do ya think any old inductors will work, or do they need to be specific ones bro?

i'd love to take the plunge and verify this...

gotta build another vocalizer too (i got offered enough $$ where my vocalizer is moving out soon)

awesome undertaking.

i knew eventually you'd get to doing a vero of cousin lewdvig, lol...

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on September 07, 2012, 03:41:43 PM
holy cow, that's a lot of transistors!!!

having finally gotten a working version of the superfuzz built, i'm ready to tackle this one i think.

gonna check over the BOM and see what i need to order....

hey dino, any chance you might have another dozen or so of the 828's you could sell me?

do ya think any old inductors will work, or do they need to be specific ones bro?

i'd love to take the plunge and verify this...

gotta build another vocalizer too (i got offered enough $$ where my vocalizer is moving out soon)

awesome undertaking.

i knew eventually you'd get to doing a vero of cousin lewdvig, lol...

New SPT video coming soon on the Superfuzz? I really want to hear what those 828's sound like. You know, if I had thought about, I would have matched two of them with my Peak meter for the octave section.

I should be able to send you enough 828's to do this one, plus I'll match up two sets of octave pairs, for this one and the Superfuzz.

As for the inductors, the TDK #41's are pretty much unobtainium. I tested the 42TL019 with my inductance meter, and they come in right around 4 Henry, so I'm thinking that they should do the job. Only trying them will prove right, or wrong. Besides, those little transformers are dirt cheap, about 2 bux each. I've read that they can also be used for Varitone circuits.

As for the Vocalizer, I recommend doing a Talk-a-lizer instead. Performs much better than the Vocalizer, and also plays nicer with other dirt pedals.

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=47353&g2_serialNumber=1)

Vero of the Ludwig? Hmmmm.... I'm still thinking about it. Gonna get my other projects off my plate, then I'll seriously consider it. I can picture it now.... 247 cuts, 96 jumpers  :icon_mrgreen:.

Quote from: digi2t on September 07, 2012, 10:15:01 PM

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on September 07, 2012, 03:41:43 PM
holy cow, that's a lot of transistors!!!

having finally gotten a working version of the superfuzz built, i'm ready to tackle this one i think.

gonna check over the BOM and see what i need to order....

hey dino, any chance you might have another dozen or so of the 828's you could sell me?

do ya think any old inductors will work, or do they need to be specific ones bro?

i'd love to take the plunge and verify this...

gotta build another vocalizer too (i got offered enough $$ where my vocalizer is moving out soon)

awesome undertaking.

i knew eventually you'd get to doing a vero of cousin lewdvig, lol...

Quote
New SPT video coming soon on the Superfuzz? I really want to hear what those 828's sound like. You know, if I had thought about, I would have matched two of them with my Peak meter for the octave section.

i didn't even worry about matching them... i DID do an asymetric GE clipper tho with two different style 1n34's... one glass, and two teeny ones in series. it scoops well, but not too much of an octave. give it 20 years to mellow maybe! ;)

Quote
I should be able to send you enough 828's to do this one, plus I'll match up two sets of octave pairs, for this one and the Superfuzz.

awesome, thanks bro... i really wanna try and build this...it seems to be a superfuzz with some extra circuitry, what the heck, in for a dollar... ;)

the super sounds great...i ended up doing two slightly different circuits, one from IvIark's layout (i built two, could only get one to work, and had a hell of a time with that one...couldn't get the balance or switch sections working no matter what i tried...i'm talking i dicked with it for 2+ months!!) and the classic from mike livesly, that one worked right out of the gate..and is the one that ended up being bone stock to the original, with the 828's.  it sounds dead on to my shin-ei fuzz wah! amazing...the other one i ended up modding from IvIark's layout a little...added a master volume to it, and the contour sweeps from fuzzy goodness to octave fuzzy goodness...that one has 5088's in it.

when i do a SPT, i think i'm gonna put all three side by side for a shootout. 

but i can't wait to try and build the honey...it sounds really cool! and we're kind of the patron saints of obscurity...lol ;)

Quote
As for the inductors, the TDK #41's are pretty much unobtainium. I tested the 42TL019 with my inductance meter, and they come in right around 4 Henry, so I'm thinking that they should do the job. Only trying them will prove right, or wrong. Besides, those little transformers are dirt cheap, about 2 bux each. I've read that they can also be used for Varitone circuits.

ok, i guess i'll have to bite the bullet and order some...i had a couple fasel's kicking around thought they may work. rather not dick around with something like this with 900 transistors! ;)

Quote
As for the Vocalizer, I recommend doing a Talk-a-lizer instead. Performs much better than the Vocalizer, and also plays nicer with other dirt pedals.

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=47353&g2_serialNumber=1)

you read my mind, actually...i didn't care for the vocalizer so much, i thought the talkalyzer sounded better, frankly. thanks for the layout, i've already got it in my archive, but i'll add this to my "to be built " folder.

i just realized last nite...i'm close to 70 builds now, counting all the crap i've given away and sold. ;) and have close to all the fuzzes i ever lusted after!!

fuzzy goodness,,,,, <aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh>  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

Quote
Vero of the Ludwig? Hmmmm.... I'm still thinking about it. Gonna get my other projects off my plate, then I'll seriously consider it. I can picture it now.... 247 cuts, 96 jumpers  :icon_mrgreen:.

to quote john lee hooker, "it's in ya, and it's gonna come out"...

so let that boy boogie!! ;)
peace bro!!   :icon_mrgreen:

Just something I caught: Check out this video on the first version Univox Superfuzz. Pay attention around 2:35.



Check out the "HF" on the back of the board. Just like the "HF" on the back of the Honey Special board. I know Shin Ei took over Honey in '69, so I guess this is remenants of the factory tooling.

A nice little piece of pedal archeology.

that's basically the same board that's in my fuzz wah, too...it's weird.

i wonder if the honey special mutated into or out of the fuzz wah...

seems like the special is the same sound, but with auto sweeping capabilities, maybe that's all it is.

thats some killer work finding that bro.

wait til ya hear the superfuzzes.. ;)

hey folks, sorry for bringing back this zombie thread... hope all's ok!

well i'm throwing the 1st one (the cleaner one) on ebay now, no reserve, and shipping worldwide.
so there you go, just in case you wanna own (and revive) an original one of these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190752337219

thanks and good luck!

Pat.

whoo hoo! i got the high bid, but i have a feeling not for long bro.
_
i have a feeling you're gonna do well with this!! ;)

OK....
It works. Here is the verified vero.

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/HoneySpecialFuzzLayout_FULL_new.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/HoneySpecialFuzzLayout_new.jpg)

Thanks to some typos, I had my oscillation speed on one side going way too fast. I also had a resistor labeled wrong on the fuzz section. All corrected now.

I'll try and get a video out tomorrow, likely the day after though. Fuzz sounds totally raunchy, and with the oscillation on, totally retarded.

I love it! :twisted:

Holding out for a PCB layout. Already have 3 or 4 I need to do myself  :icon_eek:

me wanneeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

looks great!! damn...only 12,000 more builds to get thru...screw 'em, i'm a gonna go for it i think sooner than later. ;)

OK, major update....

The 42TL019 transformers just don't cut the mustard. Compared to the TDK 4 Henry inductors, their pretty much spot on for inductance. Problem is resistance. The transformers are more than double the resistance. This makes the "wah" effect very muffled, and DULL. Compared to the original unit, it sounds like an old Maytag chugging away.

So, it was back to the drawing board....

Happy discovery though. Going through my stock, and trying different inductors that I had, I came upon two LT44 transformers that I had bought a while back. Trying the different connections, I found that the outer pins on the secondary really work well. The outer pins of the secondary side, I have 1 Henry, and 60 ohms (versus 4 Henry and 220 ohms of the TDK). It now gives me pretty much the same effect as the original. I'm no expert on inductance, but it's as if the resistance of the transformer plays a bigger role than the inductance. By adjusting the 100nF cap, I could fine tune the tone of the sweep, and I've gone with a 120nF box cap. Not a big change, but my ears said "better".

I also added a Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control. I'm using a B10K pot, with a 18nF cap, and an A50K volume pot. It's subtle, but effective enough. I also replaced the 33nF output cap with a 10uF bi-polar cap. This not only makes the tone variance stand out more, but prevents the DC from hitting the volume pot. Without a cap here, the switch pop is brutal as well.

The veros have been updated to reflect the different transformers. A word of warning though, the LT44's are 5mm bigger than the 42TL019's, but they will JUST sqeeze into the vero. There's an added jumper, since I'm not using the frame as a jumper anymore. As a matter of fact, due to the larger transformer frames, use of the frame tabs is out of the question. I simply folded them under, and used all the connection pins to hold the transformers in place. You might have to shift over a set of holes, so just shift any other components accordingly. The cuts don't change, but pay attention to respect them vis a vis where you're putting the pins.

As for the transistor gains here's what I used in each slot (all 2SC828R's), measured with my Peak Atlas meter; Q1-165, Q2-176, Q3/Q4-182, Q5-163, Q6-172, Q7-178, Q8-181, Q9-176, Q10/Q11-178, Q12-168, Q13-176. Q3/Q4 are matched for the octave section, and Q10/Q11 are matched for... not quite sure, but I figured that if they were doing the same job, why not do it equally. Totally scientific, eh?  :icon_lol:

Here's some pics;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3106.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3107.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3108.jpg)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Honey%20Special%20Fuzz/DSCF3111.jpg)

and of course, another installment, from the Hen's Tooth Cafe. Side by side shootout.

 

The principle how this circuit  works is that the inductance of the coil is changed with the DC-current flowing through the coil (as it was done in the Schaller - Rotor Sound too).

So both values are important:
The inductivity for the cut-off frequency and the dc-resistance for the DC-current flowing through the coil - and as a result how much the inductance is changed (and with this the cut-off frequency).

If the DC-resistance of the coil is higher, than less current is flowing through the coil and therefore changing the inductance less.

analogguru

Quote from: analogguru on November 14, 2012, 02:38:37 PM
The principle how this circuit  works is that the inductance of the coil is changed with the DC-current flowing through the coil (as it was done in the Schaller - Rotor Sound too).

So both values are important:
The inductivity for the cut-off frequency and the dc-resistance for the DC-current flowing through the coil - and as a result how much the inductance is changed (and with this the cut-off frequency).

If the DC-resistance of the coil is higher, than less current is flowing through the coil and therefore changing the inductance less.

analogguru

OMG!!! DUDE, I ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT! That is the most exquisite description I've gotten to date. I stand and salute you (insert saluting smiley here). Many thanks!

Dino

You are welcome - I like your honest efforts to trace the unit and build a clone.

BTW, the TDK-coil is not a big mystery, you can make your own.

"Inside" it is made of a pot-core:

(http://www.dj4uf.de/lehrg/a03/bild3-12.jpg)

and some magnet wire (as used in guitar pickups):

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Kupferlackdraht_rolle.jpg/220px-Kupferlackdraht_rolle.jpg)

When the AL-value of the pot-core is 250 (as shown) you will need about 4000 turns, with an AL-value of 400 you will need (only) 3162 turns - resulting in less DC-resistance.  The bigger the pot-core, the thicker the copper-wire can be.  A thicker copper-wire results in less DC-resistance with the same amount of turns.

analogguru

QuoteYou are welcome - I like your honest efforts to trace the unit and build a clone.

I really appreciate that. That's why I hold this forum, and many of it's members, very dear to my heart. This pedal building business only developed out of a curiousity to understand very basic electronics. Now it's grown into a fascination with the old pedals, and how they went about trying to expand the tonal palette before the digital age. Besides, they sound so brutally organic at times.

I really enjoy digging up these babies, and bringing them back to life. Most of all, bringing them to all of you here, is the best part. 

Nice one Dino, another resurrected gem! This one of particular historical interest too, it seems. Man, this one goes back 45 years or so...hard to imagine what it would have been like for the designers back then...and the opportunities presented by the new-fangled and expensive transistors which made small electronics boxes and battery power feasible, compared to tube electronics. As opposed to these days, where you can get a few trannies shipped to your door from Hong Kong for less than a bar of chocolate!

Quote from: Ronan on November 14, 2012, 06:18:35 PM
Nice one Dino, another resurrected gem! This one of particular historical interest too, it seems. Man, this one goes back 45 years or so...hard to imagine what it would have been like for the designers back then...and the opportunities presented by the new-fangled and expensive transistors which made small electronics boxes and battery power feasible, compared to tube electronics. As opposed to these days, where you can get a few trannies shipped to your door from Hong Kong for less than a bar of chocolate!

What I find really fasinating is the ideas presented by these pedals. I mean, it must have been like the old Wild West days, exploring new frontiers. Some hit gold, while others went bust. It never ceases to amaze me what they could come up with, with the technology of the day.

The coolest part is when I pull out one of my "little grey boxes" when my newphews are here, and pummel them with this harsh, analog sound. Their eyes just bug out, and they can't believe that something could sound so nasty, or cool. When I tell them that this or that was originally conceived when they weren't even a glint in their Daddy's eye, they always respond with a chorus of, "What do you mean, they don't make them anymore! I want one!".

The big wheel keeps turning....