DIYstompboxes.com

 What with all the talk of the the end of cheap through-hole JFETs I figured I had better stock up while they are still reasonably cheap. Got myself a range of most-likely parts and decided to get a few hundred 2n5457s and J201s as they are so common for our use. Kind of a lifetime supply. I see that the 5457s are already shooting up in price. The J201's are dearer than they were but not OTT yet.
 I broke with common wisdom and bought the J201's from Ebay (alert1) and China (alert2). Store was "Polida" who seem to have very good feedback. Anyway.... surprise surprise, they don't seem right.
So far I have tested for VGs off which seemed like the simplest quick test as there are not so many Jfets that have such a low parameter. There are right on the borderline of "spec" with about 30% going slightly over the maximum rating of -1.5v.
Its the cases of the transistors that have me really going "hmmmm" though.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/stm88/J201a.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/stm88/J201b.jpg)

The photo shows the Polida one on the left and a regular one from a known source on the right. Both are branded Fairchild.
First thing I noticed when I got the bag was that the Polida ones have a dry sanded look to them. Kind of like auto paint that has been wet and dry sanded. All the regular Fairchild Jfets I have have a nice shiny polished finish. There are other differences too. The case shape is slightly different. The "real" one has a letter code in the circle on the back. Different batches have different letters. The leads are different - the Polida ones flex more easily.
So they are the physical characteristics. I'll do some more testing soon.
So what do you think? Have you seen Fairchild Jfets that look like this?

Possibilities that come to mind:
The Polida ones could be old stock? Different die/factory?
Some unknown part just plain 'ol sanded and branded?

WTF? J201 is being Fake? the hell... try make some Jfet for dist or any effects that use jfets. try whats the result :icon_question:

 I am wondering a few things:

Would they bother faking Jfets? I mean really they aren't worth much and sit seems like  a huge effort. But then who knows maybe $30 is enough to be bothered in mainland China? Just that these look so messed with, unless others have seen J201s like this?
If the datasheets hows a VGs off of -0.3 to -1.5 and I am getting readings sitting right on the borderline and spilling over a bit (-1.6/7) is that a fail or not?
Can they be close-ish?

Later today I will have a go at testing for drain current (Idss). Any other parameters that can be easily checked?
Hopefully that will reveal more and I can sik PayPal on the bastards if they come up false.

Does anybody know of a good surface mount equivalent to the J201 other than the 2SK208?

You can get J201's in surface mount (Digikey show +25k available), why an equivalent?

dave

Quote from: davent on May 24, 2012, 11:39:32 PM
You can get J201's in surface mount (Digikey show +25k available), why an equivalent?

dave

ha.. missed those? Why an equivalent? Good question, not sure...? I guess because I build a few pedals here and there that use the j201's and don't want to re-engineer them for different jfet's but if you have any pointers or suggestions I'm all ears :icon_wink: I am not by any means an expert at this stuff, still learning...

~Jim

I bought a dodgy micro SD card from ebay. Lucky the seller was nice about it and emailed saying she had had some compliants and would refund me. I did some research about this problem. What happens is the cards that don't meet quality control targets get chucked in the bin, however this doesn't happen and people take em home and reprogram a crappy 4Gb card to look will a 32Gb card!

Anyway could this be a similar thing, a batch of j201's don't meet the targets and instead of going in the bin go on ebay? Maybe the difference in finish is because they where canned before they could get polished up?

Naive question, but I seem to recall there being a different J201 pinout, depending on manufacturer (though my memory may be in error).

If one tried testing out JFETs, using an erroneous pinout, what would happen?

this maybe be a different subject but still in topic :D some Chinese manufacturers will sell not quality check by the owner and then sell it in a black market for only 30% . . . like some cases you bought in GCenter , Ebay, MFriend a guitar worth $500 then someone in your local guitar store selling  it for $150 and its same item one and both made in china. this is a real story about manufacturers that's selling not quality check, but you will be lucky if you grab the unchecked  item but a passed item "if checked" . and if you bought $500 and saw next month somebody in your local guitar shop selling for $150 what will you feel? and they say that the item was under the table ! :icon_exclaim:

"THIS WEEKEND ONLY! BLOWOUT PRICES! EPSON PRINTERS STARTING AS LOW AS 10$! GPS UNITS FOR AS LOW AS 5$! GUITARS, AMPS, AUDIO ACCESSORIES! ALL AT BLOWOUT PRICES! THIS WEEKEND ONLY! AT THE PAVILION AUCTION AND REC CENTER OFF THE MAIN HIGHWAY."

Or the guy who swings by and sells you stuff from the back of the van (it's cheaper to sell it at cost than take shipping and restocking cut from their supplier, and most are legit). I got a pair of Acoustic (brand) speakers that are killer... their flaw was that the cabinet was in need of regluing. It looked like they didn't pass because the joints weren't properly glued. What's cheaper than paying a worker to pry a cabinet apart? Sell it as "Direct Factory" item at a discount price. I just used a spring steal shim, popped the corners all apart from the inside and injected glue, put em back together, and killed the neighbors with some killer sound.

 Well, tests are in.
THESE ARE FAKE
I noticed that the last day for resolution on my Ebay account so I got motivated and tested a random selection for Idss using the method for the Fetzer valve. All Aron's and reliable-supplier J201s came in right within target range. These failed. Their current readings were >200% expected. They also have around 30% over the maximum datasheet level for Vgsoff.  So thats two parameters tested and both fail. And... as discussed above the case and makings do not appear correct.
Lesson learned. Ebay + Chinese parts = asking to be reamed.
I knew this of course. Just couldn't believe they could be bothered with all that fiddly re-marking for $30. Guess that buys a lot of dinners over there.

So please take care, especially buying from Ebay!

luckily ive had only good ebay/china dealings...i thought it was risky at the time, but those el cheapo prices just reel you in...

pt2399, mn3007,4047's..all been fine..

i haven't bought j201's from there though...thats sad that anyone would have to fake them really....shame!.

but i guess its luck of the draw with so many sellers out there!!!!..........some good, some badass... :)

 Yep, me too. Been lucky so far (as far as I know).
It doesn't necessarily mean this seller (Polida) was aware of it either. They have excellent feedback and stock a pretty huge range of parts could have been their suppliers.
I guess we'll see more of this as Jfets go the way of Germaniums.

Just imagine some poor sucker sitting there, remarking J201's one at a time, thinking of the money they will scam...seems kinda ridiculous :p/

Quote from: Toney on June 11, 2012, 03:45:57 AM


Just imagine some poor sucker sitting there, remarking J201's one at a time, thinking of the money they will scam...seems kinda ridiculous :p/

yeah sod that!! :D

I bought some j201's from tayda and they look and act just like yours. Not trying to knock against tayda though, because in that same order I got some box caps and they're just fine. Just a heads up if anyone wants to buy some j201's from tayda. Luckily, I'm only out $2.50.

i bought j201's from usa (ebay) in the end, it was cheaper than the uk, and they are fine....

  I bought some last year from a guy in the States called dpi4parts - that's one of his in the comparison photo and I still have some from a few years back from Aron's store. Just by chance they are all Fairchild, so I had a solid comparison base.
All the Aron's and dpi4parts ones look the same and came in well within expected spec.

@wilrecar77
If you tested the Tayda ones and they were out of spec, you should let them know. maximum parameters on the datasheet means Maximum otherwise it's not a J201.  I'm sure they will refund you. They are pretty good like that.

i bought 1000x from "ebuy4s". they were on a reel in the photo but came in a bag.

the fairchild logo was slightly different. i thought maybe they were from a different manufacture time.

haven't tested... i'll try to make a boogie with them and see what happens.




that's sad news there....


i've had some unfair experiences with china....


mine doesn't have the "N" on the back. probably the same kind.

  The shipping cost registered back to China hardly makes the return worth it in my case but Darron if you bought 1000 I would definitely send them back and sik PayPal on them if they are fake.
The letter code was different on different Jfets but all the "real" Fairchild ones had it. Not sure that is definitive in any way as there could be different dies and factories.

The easiest parameter to test is the Run Off Groove drain current (Idss) method here:

http://www.runoffgroove.com/fetzervalve.html (http://www.runoffgroove.com/fetzervalve.html)

Arons/dpi ones were in spec as per the datasheet - vastly different with the Polida dodgy-brothers ones.
 
 

well... returns are a calculated risk.


i bought some germaniums which were labelled and pictures as one thing, but came as a generic transistor in a different package. different specs. not like the ones i wanted in the photo. i returned them but by the time that i paid the return cost and they took a small percentage for return-handling i didn't even get half the money back. even if you follow all correct protocols it's not "fair", like i said. china can post things to me at about 1/10 the cost of me sending something there.

the seller's free post includes their sale cost too, so they want to recover that.

ask questions. make double sure. still expect the worst.

I've bought some cheap j201s from ebay, too. They look the same as yours (without the letter "N" on the other side). However, I've made a pretty nice sounding plexi drive out of them. :)

Yeah I'm just "negotiating" via PayPal with the Polida guy now.
He knows that me sending them back with a PayPal-approved traceable method from  Australia to China just isn't worth it for a $30 sale vs his original shipping out of China.
He's all friendly and re-enforcing how he takes returns any time, "no problem" but the shipping discrepancy IS the problem.
 
Kinda bullsh*t no win situation. Oh well $30 lesson...


 

@karolisd  they are Fets of some type but just well out of J201 parameters by my testing.
Doesn't mean they cant sound good  :icon_cool:
Good to hear you had decent results. Maybe I should just use them...

@Toney,

I recently posted a thread about fake MN3005s that were from the eBay seller Polida:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=95978.0

You will notice from the thread that after requesting some information and proof that his/her product was authentic I was immediately "shut down" and told to find another seller!!

Needless to say..... I didn't make any purchases form Polida  ::)

polida sounds like a great ebayer.... ;D...what a (fill in appropriate slander).

'your words make me angry'.... ha ha ha...sorry man, but that is funny.. :icon_mrgreen:

thought i'd drop in my report.

we built a dr boogie with these fake j201's and it was poo! too much mushy high gain, and shrill sounding. and the noise specs were terrible. turning the guitar volume down still let lots of noise bleed through.




so... stay away from them.

I just bought 500 surface mount Fairchild J201's from Mouser... Price not too bad either and I suspect they are the real deal..

I have a hard time buying that there are fake J201s and MN3005s, etc.

Making FETs, transistors & IC chips is a highly specialized thing that needs to be in a clean room environment with very specialized equipment. I just can't see some Chinese dudes making these in their garage, it's not a cheap nor an easy thing for people to just make counterfeits of these things. I think it is FAR more likely that they somehow get these things that might be genuine out-of-spec factory "rejects" and then sell them as if they were in-spec normal devices WITHOUT disclosing that they are factory seconds or whatever term would be used to describe them. With FETs, it's possible that maybe they are re-labeling them, but I can't see that happening with specialized IC chips like an MN3005.

I suppose there is a possibility that some dude in Malaysia or the Phillipines had the things needed to make now obsolete IC chips which were supposed to be destroyed that could have been sold to some dude in China on "the international black market", but I have a hard time seeing why someone would go after something like that. I mean they would make much much more money making counterfeit purses, shoes, etc. than on some very specialized IC chip that is used in a very small percentage of electronic devices.

Quote from: Paul Marossy on June 20, 2012, 10:02:26 AM
I have a hard time buying that there are fake J201s and MN3005s, etc.

Making FETs, transistors & IC chips is a highly specialized thing that needs to be in a clean room environment with very specialized equipment. I just can't see some Chinese dudes making these in their garage, it's not a cheap nor an easy thing for people to just make counterfeits of these things. I think it is FAR more likely that they somehow get these things that might be genuine out-of-spec factory "rejects" and then sell them as if they were in-spec normal devices WITHOUT disclosing that they are factory seconds or whatever term would be used to describe them. With FETs, it's possible that maybe they are re-labeling them, but I can't see that happening with specialized IC chips like an MN3005.

I suppose there is a possibility that some dude in Malaysia or the Phillipines had the things needed to make stuff for obsolete IC chips which were supposed to be destroyed that could have been sold to some dude in China on "the international black market", but I have a hard time seeing why someone would go after something like that. I mean they would make much much more money making counterfeit purses, shoes, etc.

I can assure you they have no issue faking MN3005s, or restamping ICs, they're fake in that they plain don't work, not that they're copies (although some times they're restamped MN3008s or MN3205s, the latter not working in 3005 circuits).

However I find this J201 stuff subjective so far... could be factory rejects, could be just FETs bein' FETs.

Well, that is a possibility. Just taking some random IC chip and labeling it as an MN3005. That's outright lying. But still, there's not much money in that. It's foolishness if you ask me. If I wanted to sell fake products, I would go after stuff that most people want - shoes, purses, etc. - far more profit and demand in that than in messing around with the comparitively very small market of FETs and IC chips.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/22/fake-chinese-electronics-us-military-aircraft_n_1535089.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/22/fake-chinese-electronics-us-military-aircraft_n_1535089.html)

Quote from: defaced on June 20, 2012, 10:15:51 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/22/fake-chinese-electronics-us-military-aircraft_n_1535089.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/22/fake-chinese-electronics-us-military-aircraft_n_1535089.html)

Crap. Now the nuclear holocaust will happen because of one frickin counterfeit part somewhere.  :icon_rolleyes:

Quote from: Paul Marossy on June 20, 2012, 10:12:14 AM
Well, that is a possibility. Just taking some random IC chip and labeling it as an MN3005. That's outright lying. But still, there's not much money in that. It's foolishness if you ask me. If I wanted to sell fake products, I would go after stuff that most people want - shoes, purses, etc. - far more profit and demand in that than in messing around with the comparitively very small market of FETs and IC chips.

The BBDs they sell at reasonable prices... about $20 a piece in a lot of cases so that's not such a bad way of making cash for a few pence stamp and some other random IC. And when companies like EHX are hit with a load of fakes, the market aint that small.

The FETs, yeah I can't beleive it's worth faking them.

There is the profit in volume of sales aspect of it. I don't know, I guess they have a different mentality than I do as "a westerner." But still, there is much more money to be made in stuff that appeals to people's vanity.

Kind of makes you wonder if anything you buy anymore is real or not. I've been seeing quite a few of these fake Les Pauls going around these days. Although almost every single thing we buy these days IS made in China. The whole thing just disgusts me for many reasons.

Quote from: Scruffie on June 20, 2012, 10:21:41 AM
And when companies like EHX are hit with a load of fakes, the market aint that small.

I assume there is a story behind this comment. Linky??  ;)

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on June 20, 2012, 10:34:01 AM

Quote from: Scruffie on June 20, 2012, 10:21:41 AM
And when companies like EHX are hit with a load of fakes, the market aint that small.

I assume there is a story behind this comment. Linky??  ;)

Yeah, I'd like to know about that one as well.

There was a GIDEP ALERT program at one time for military manufacturers to warn other manufacturers about fake parts.  We got in a 74LS74 one time with 16 pins.  It would have been interesting to see what it actually was.  GIDEP = Government - Industry Data Exchange Program

Quote from: amptramp on June 20, 2012, 12:30:41 PM
There was a GIDEP ALERT program at one time for military manufacturers to warn other manufacturers about fake parts.  We got in a 74LS74 one time with 16 pins.  It would have been interesting to see what it actually was.  GIDEP = Government - Industry Data Exchange Program

It's kind of a scary thought when you think that an IC chip for example is to be installed in a piece of equipment which is rated for a certain temperature, and what is actually in there might not even be the same part at all and may have a much different (lower) temperature rating. So it could fail for one or more reasons, and who knows, with disastrous consequences. Don't they have a dude in a lab somewhere that checks parts to make sure they meet specs?

Anyway, this is a very insidious problem I can see.  :icon_confused:

Quote from: Paul Marossy on June 20, 2012, 10:35:10 AM

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on June 20, 2012, 10:34:01 AM

Quote from: Scruffie on June 20, 2012, 10:21:41 AM
And when companies like EHX are hit with a load of fakes, the market aint that small.

I assume there is a story behind this comment. Linky??  ;)

Yeah, I'd like to know about that one as well.

Can't be bothered to find the quote but when they bought a load of MN3005s to build there DMM W/Tap Tempo 1S addition, they got a lot of fake chips which is why that is only made in small batches (think there's about 400-500 units at current) as they find real ones and they made the DMM W/Tap Tempo 550 edition so they could use 4 x MN3008 which are easier to find.

If it looks to good to be true, it usually is.  :icon_confused:

How are FETS manufactured? Are they manufactured and then sorted and labelled based on their specs or does a manufacturer make a batch of J201's. From what was described in the original post, the jfets don't seem fake - just mislabelled. Is someone relabelling jets or buying out of spec jfets and selling them as if they are good?

Andrew.

I think similaraly to Paul. It's hard to imagine a company in China intentionally trying to manufacture replicas, and then sell them at a similar cheap rate. I was thinking more along the lines of rebranding something already less than average. Maybe these are restamped rejects from another manufacturer for example.

At any rate, right away I noticed that the package wasn't like the usual ones I see from all the Fairdchilds that I get in. And the print and logo looked a bit different.

Quote from: darron on June 20, 2012, 06:16:22 PM
At any rate, right away I noticed that the package wasn't like the usual ones I see from all the Fairdchilds that I get in. And the print and logo looked a bit different.

Yeah, you can see that in the pictures for sure.

  Paul, I hesitated even posting this at the start because it seemed unlikely that anyone could be bothered, but apparently restamping is pretty rife in China. The relabeled BBD situation has been going on for some time, mostly as noted MN3008 relabeled as MN3005 with lots of examples. It seems its so bad that most of the ones found on Ebay are suspicious.
Buying power is obviously relative. A $30 sale is 190 Chinese Yuan Renminbi (CNY). I had a quick Google and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_China_%28PRC%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_China_%28PRC%29) so it seems an average minimum monthly wage for Beijing or Shanghai is 1270 CNY and that's approx. 293 CNY per week so looks like its well worth it. A $30 sale is more than 65% of the minimum weekly wage.

About 70% of the batch I have are close-ish to the extreme end of the scale for J201 values for Vgs off but well out for Idss tested against a couple of differently sourced "real" Fairchild J201s which came in right within expected spec.
I guess a couple of possibilities are:

They are factory rejects, intended to be disposed of.
They are relabled devices of some kind stamped J201 as its a popular seller on the bay and specs were vaguely plausible.

But thats just one person testing (me!) and I could be wrong (ever possible lol) so if other wanted to do the Fetzer valve Idss test that would add to it.

That actually makes me wonder if they aren't some other "cheaper" jfet... I'm suspecting J202's restamped, based off what you guys are saying.

J201 - J202 / MMBFJ201 - MMBFJ203 N-Channel General Purpose Amplifier DATASHEET
(http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CG4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairchildsemi.com%2Fds%2FMM%2FMMBFJ202.pdf&ei=mZPiT9SaHc6u2AW5mMnSCw&usg=AFQjCNGPNEflM1MJ63b2DtQitzA3PbW95w)

201 VGS (off) = 0.3-1.5 V  IDSS = 0.2 - 1.0 mA
202 VGS (off) = 0.8-4.0 V  IDSS = 0.9 - 4.5 mA

You can see there's an overlap of 0.7V that they could both be the same and still "within range", but only 0.1mA overlap in IDSS spec. An "In Spec" 202 could have similar VGS as a 201, but the IDSS would be way out.

Reason I'm thinking this is because maybe they have a ton of the 202's that nobody buys, so they are just restamping them to dump them at a penny or 2 higher than they normally could.

 Yep, if they were marked J202, they would be in spec as tested.
From memory They were averaging ~2 mA Idss vs "real" J201 which were approx 0.4-6mA from both samples.

I considered emailing Fairchild to see if I could dig up any info as to whether the case was one they manufacture. It's physically different from the other known "real" ones in several ways.

Quote from: Toney on June 20, 2012, 10:48:37 PM
Buying power is obviously relative. A $30 sale is 190 Chinese Yuan Renminbi (CNY). I had a quick Google and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_China_%28PRC%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_China_%28PRC%29) so it seems an average minimum monthly wage for Beijing or Shanghai is 1270 CNY and that's approx. 293 CNY per week so looks like its well worth it. A $30 sale is more than 65% of the minimum weekly wage.

That's the thing about China that is confusing. You see on TV all these fancy buildings in their major cities which definitely (to me) gives the appearance that they are milking away America's wealth and jobs for domestic workers, and 90% of everything in Walmart, Target or just about anywhere else we buy stuff from was made in China. And yet you have people there with an average minimum income of only like $150?!?! The must be a HUGE gap between the rich and poor in that country. Not only that but the pollution in Beijing is just absolutely appalling. Smog so thick that you can't even see a block away. I wonder how much they contribute to global warming? Anyway, I sure am tired of China these days.

Do you ever wonder if items for sale in China are stamped:

"Made around the corner"  8)

So I got some CA3080s from this "polida" seller on eBay. They aren't the same as what was in the picture on the auction but the markings on these are very similar in color and brightness to the pictures of the J201s at the beginning of this thread. I don't recognize the manufacturer markings on these chips I got (supposedly Intersil I guess) but they work.

Hey Paul... sometimes, I think the Chinese just build crap to keep people busy, which would definitely make for a surplus of parts.

Seriously... what a waste of resources.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/Ghost-towns-China-Satellite-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/Ghost-towns-China-Satellite-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html)


eta: just makin clear: nothing against Chinese people, more of the people at the top who make these decisions (or is that at the bottom? Sometimes both?)

Just an update:
I actually managed to get a PayPal full refund for these.
Surprised! I called them up and explained the shipping would be over 70% of the purchase price and they refunded me.
Major PITA but OK in the end.

I Made a dr boogie with the left ones and it sounded like that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG1UsXuVqY4
guess it explains the lack in gain i got

I would not buy rice from China...

mac

Quote from: mac on July 24, 2012, 09:29:25 AM
I would not buy rice from China...

mac

These days trying to buy stuff not made in China is like trying to buy food without salt or sugar in it, very hard to do. With the pollution in China, I wouldn't want to buy rice from there either.  :icon_eek:

Most of semiconductors now manufactured in south-east Asia.

QuoteNXP Established: 2006 (formerly a division of Philips)
50+ years of experience in semiconductors

Look for example at datasheet.
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/BAT54_SERIES.pdf
MARKING CODE(1)
1.∗ = p : Made in Hong Kong.
∗ = t : Made in Malaysia.
∗ = W: Made in China.

Lets be fair here guys, the problem is not with buying stuff made in China, but buying stuff from some Chinese EBAY sellers.

Quote from: Pyr0 on July 24, 2012, 05:07:44 PM
Lets be fair here guys, the problem is not with buying stuff made in China, but buying stuff from some Chinese EBAY sellers.

I have a problem with either one.

i must just be lucky, everything ive bought from china, hong kong, japan, thailand etc etc...have all be fine...

in my experience they never want to piss you off and will do anything to avoid bad feedback etc... :)

I saw this thread after i ordered some  20 j201 and 20 4558d...    I dont know how to test them but i can say for sure that the 4558 sounds HORRIBLE!

(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj545/haveyouseenhim/DSC07551.jpg)

any ideas on what i should put in the package to send back to them (nothing illegal)  (preferably insulting or gross)

Well they certainly have "the look" but to be certain it would be good to test them. It's good to have some data to refer to when you ask for a refund.
The J201's are pretty quick and easy to test for Vgs of and drain current.
I don't know of any quick tests other than A/B testing for the opamps. Perhaps you could email JRC and ask them if they produce 4558's in that package style?

> How are FETS manufactured? Are they manufactured and then sorted and labelled based on their specs or does a manufacturer make a batch of J201's.

There are a dozen basic "masks". Skinny channel for low leakage, fat channel for low resistance.

There is a small range of processing. Kinda like you can cook cookies for 7 minutes soft or 9 minutes crunchy.

There are several packages.

There are 98,765 different part-numbers. Even discounting same part in metal plastic SMD, and insignificant differences, there's thousands of electrically different part numbers.

So yeah: they load "Mask 55", they bake 7.6 minutes, and they get FETs from Vgs from 0.3V to 10V, Idss from 0.3mA to 20mA.

If they have an order for J201, they sort-out some with 0.3-1.5V and 0.2-1.0mA, check the other specs like gate leakage (mostly controlled by mask and baking, but some high-spec part numbers might have to be sub-sorted), and put them in a bin. BUT if they have an order for private-number 08642BA, which might be a J201 except 50V breakdown for a dollar more, they will check breakdown and sell the 50+V parts under the higher-price part-number.

> wonder if they aren't some other "cheaper" jfet

All the "small" FETs are the same core price (the low-resistance FETs do cost more). And packaging costs more than the die.

However there's some go-to part numbers in high demand, and other part numbers which could do the same work but don't get selected very often. In general, raw FETs are not part-numbered until an order is being filled, so there won't be an over-stock of some unloved part number. Still there's lots of half-barrels of FETs with part numbers nobody is looking for.

And yes re-marking has become rampant. It's just a form of printing. Who invented printing? Folks in and around China (Gutenberg was a copycat). What is one of the MOST common manufacturing machines? Part-number printers. Everything from cereal bowls to car parts has a number. You can probably buy a small parts printer in those industrial towns easier than I could buy a boat (I passed 11 boats for sale coming back from supper).

Get your parts from *reputable* vendors. DigiKey and Mouser are super-safe. They both do so much business with Fairchild (or whoever) that they won't knowingly buy fakes. Some big distributor got burned (I think on fake CPUs!) so all the solid vendors are on the lookout. SmallBear is also safe: while he has been sold a fake or two, he gets right on it and makes it right.

There IS a long tradition of very lowest price purchasing. Radio manufacturers had buyers who would haunt odd surplus and failed businesses to save a part-cent per resistor. Those radios often hardly made their 30-day warranty. That's OK for a fly-by-night radio maker. It's a very poor example for hand-made personal or boutique pedals.

Good news for me. I finally got a refund from polida. That dern chinaman needs to learn a lil more english if hes going to sell things to english speaking countries.  It was a nightmare dealing with that guy.

I like reading about how components are made, it's fascinating, thanks PRR. And I dig that we're watching out for each other, being a bunch of broke-asses looking for deals.

But...

WARNING, THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS OPINIONS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE OPINIONS, DON'T READ IT:

QuoteThat dern chinaman needs to learn a lil more english if hes going to sell things to english speaking countries.

Hey, aren't you a Southerner?  ;)

I find this thread kinda sad for a number of reasons. First, and most importantly, it's ridiculous that we live in a world so desperate and cynical that we rip each other off for peanuts; I'm so sorry you guys have been burned, what BS, really pisses me off, I love this online community and hate seeing hard working builders get ripped off.
Second, it's too bad that we're not doing much DIY SMD. That would make a lot of sourcing way easier.
Third, iPhones are made in China, and it's been MANY YEARS since I bought some mass-fabbed thing that was so well crafted. So, as my grandpappy said, 'can't all be bad'.
Fourth, don't like cheap crap from China? Then buy expensive crap from the States. Whenever people complain about 'hipsters buying organic' and 'boutique prices' and stuff like that, then turn around and complain about cheap crap from China it drives me nuts. If you don't want to buy from Small Bear et al. then buy cheap crap from across the ocean; no sympathy for the devil. Think you can have local, fair and cheap? Try visiting Europe for a little dose of reality. EVERYTHING is expensive. Except beer. We need to learn how to live with less, like adults. Impossible, I know.
Fifth, the US lost industry because of Americans who run gigantic companies who don't care about the consequences their actions have for the rest of us, tax loopholes and corporate welfare thanks to Congressmen selling their souls to lobbyists, and because of the rampant corruption of the totally f'd up Chinese government, not because of the 'wily Chinaman', or some grand conspiracy. That, and we decided as a nation a long time ago that we care more about quantity than quality.
Sixth, there's nothing inherently good about stuff made in the States, at least, not for the last few decades. We've certainly made our fair share of crappy plastic junk that breaks right away. In fact, along with the Japanese, we invented that.
Seventh, and I don't know about yous guys, but in Chicago, I'd trust a Chinese ebay seller at least as much as a general contractor, McDonalds, or a Boeing administrator. I think we assume Chinese sellers are sly before we give them a chance. And ask yourself, if people in China, or Sweden, or Botswana wanted to buy your pedals, would you learn their languages? Yeah right. No one has it easier when it comes to communication than native English speakers, even if they are from the South. Have a little compassion you hard asses!  ;D

off topic:

And Paul, I agree the pollution is sick and out of hand, but somehow, being 1/4 the population of China, we still pollute almost as much. According to Reuters' sources, China produces 6 billion tonnes of carbon waste, the US produces 5 billion. Have you ever been to Houston, Hoboken, or Gary Indiana? They're not as bad as major Chinese cities, but only because they're not as big. Next up is Russia, with 1.5 billion. Not exactly holier than thou, ya know?

rant over, back to schematics!

Oh c'mon. What I said was a jab at southerners. I'm not racist by any stretch of the imagination.

If I were selling to sweden, china, or north korea I would at least use google translate.  I don't assume anything about a seller until they do me wrong. this guy was shiesty and wanted to buy positive feedback from me

I know, that's why I was ribbin' ya dude, relax! I come from Chicago, we have horrible, horrible accents, and lots of racists of all colors and creeds.

I'm not disputing your story either, just sayin' online gear forums are rife with China hate that goes a little overboard, IM[not so]HO.

Quote from: wilrecar77 on June 12, 2012, 02:34:40 AM
I bought some j201's from tayda and they look and act just like yours. Not trying to knock against tayda though, because in that same order I got some box caps and they're just fine. Just a heads up if anyone wants to buy some j201's from tayda. Luckily, I'm only out $2.50.

That's strange.

All my J201s from TAYDA look like the Fairchild on the right. Not to mention my BSIAB and Wampler Pinnacle clone sounds amazing.

@gary:  everything in europe is expensive apart from beer?..., gord blimey luv a duck, me old china, fruit cake, plates of meat ,apples n pears, whistle n flute, dog n bone,  try England ...central London £4.50 gbp a pint of crap lager...

thats why i brew my own real ale... ;)...cheap and tastes 10 times as good. 8).


oh and petrol £1.42 a litre...not a gallon. :icon_eek:

I forgot England isn't Europe!  ;D

For the next contest, can we fund you to brew some DIYSBrew for the prize?

If it ain't Murrica it might as well be one them dagum oriental countries.

Drink a real mans beer       steel reserve :P

Quote from: pappasmurfsharem on March 28, 2013, 02:29:54 AM

Quote from: wilrecar77 on June 12, 2012, 02:34:40 AM
I bought some j201's from tayda and they look and act just like yours. Not trying to knock against tayda though, because in that same order I got some box caps and they're just fine. Just a heads up if anyone wants to buy some j201's from tayda. Luckily, I'm only out $2.50.

That's strange.

All my J201s from TAYDA look like the Fairchild on the right. Not to mention my BSIAB and Wampler Pinnacle clone sounds amazing.

Ohhh my GOSH! tayda has j201 but WHEN i measure the idss and the like... its very far from the real j201 i bought from other suppliers... the logo fairchild is different from tayda.. tayda has cheap logo on it rather than from my other supplier!!! TAYDA HAS FAKE J201!! but still worked though!! they measure as off



J201 Real FC            J201 Tayda          J201 FC       MPSA102   
IDSS - .36              IDSS - 1.6            .35                8.8
VP - .66                Vp - 1.56               .65                3.28
RS -  1522              Rs 809                1541              309
Rd - 18750              RD - 2857          17743             168
Vs - .25                .62                     .25                  1.8
Vd 5.75                 6.01                    5.37               7.22
Id .16                  .76                     .16                   5.84
Av 6.2                  1.8                     5.8                    .3
Av 15.8                 4.9                     15.2               -11.3
Vo 7.5                  5.1                     6.9                   1.6
Cp 104.6nf


       
5457 -04               jo8                      d3
5457                    tayda                j201
IDSS - .14             1.3                     .29
VP - .98               1.47                    .61
RS - 5851              939                     1746
RD - 44010             3642                    21662
VS -.38                .58                     .23
VD -5.98               5.95                    5.35
Id .06                 .62                     .13
Av 3.8                 1.9                     6.2
db -11.5               5.8                     15.9
vo - 6.8               5.3                     7
cp -27n                170n                   91.2n


All the tayda has high readings!!! its damn fake

Oh wow... Interesting with tayda. Never ordered from them but respected company.

I have a box full of legit j201's isolated from my obvious knock off ones. They came from two of our very close favorite suppliers and I found some fake ones in there. Can't confirm who it came from though.

Quote from: askwho69 on March 28, 2013, 08:23:18 PM

Quote from: pappasmurfsharem on March 28, 2013, 02:29:54 AM

Quote from: wilrecar77 on June 12, 2012, 02:34:40 AM
I bought some j201's from tayda and they look and act just like yours. Not trying to knock against tayda though, because in that same order I got some box caps and they're just fine. Just a heads up if anyone wants to buy some j201's from tayda. Luckily, I'm only out $2.50.

That's strange.

All my J201s from TAYDA look like the Fairchild on the right. Not to mention my BSIAB and Wampler Pinnacle clone sounds amazing.

Ohhh my GOSH! tayda has j201 but WHEN i measure the idss and the like... its very far from the real j201 i bought from other suppliers... the logo fairchild is different from tayda.. tayda has cheap logo on it rather than from my other supplier!!! TAYDA HAS FAKE J201!! but still worked though!! they measure as off
     
All the tayda has high readings!!! its damn fake

Damn shame!!! Un-cool! Maybe start ordering SMD version of the J201 - MMBFJ201 / marking - 62P  still available last I checked Mouser
I know, I know... Run! Run for your lives... it's surface mount!! :icon_eek:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/MMBFJ201/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv4z0HnGdrLjpo3FY8YkyPvx%252bQykc9k8ic%3d

I ordered some j201s from tayda, and they all look like the fake ones... I tested the VGS(off) and the IDSS using the tester on the Fetzer Valve page, and while all of them were within spec for VGS(off), only one of them didn't have too high of an  IDSS, and even then that one was right on the upper end of the spec.

I got some fake AF128 in a super shiny metal can. I should have known by the name and picture. they just clone what sells. AC128 is selling for a high price so china invents AF128. notice how %90 of fake germaniums on ebay have the same fresh and shiny package with no oxidation like you would expect.

 :icon_sad:Magnatec do some new af128, ac128. They aren't bad really. I wouldn't say that they are 'fake' since lots of companies made them. Lots of companies make 4558, 072 etc etc chips too.

I do get a bit annoyed when people sell the tungsram ac128 etc as vintage when they look a bit oxidizes and similar. Not shiny. Tell you what though, I'd take a shiney new magnatec one over the "T" tungsram ones around.

You're right, they label them to what they know people are looking for, but for our purposes they do a similar trick.

The retailer had these af128 listed germanium NOS pnp but they were silicon with %33 working %33 not working and %33 overpriced diodes (broken transistor). That is not good business or good transistors IMO. What i mean about the oxidation is a good sign that they are actually old.

i've had my share of shitty dealing with certain online sellers. been bitten too many times to not have bad memories stirred up. so, i have sympathy for people buying them

just saying too, if you lookup 'ac128' on ebay there's a lot of older/oxidised looking ones. doesn't mean they are actually vintage or better. with the "T" - tungsram. i've literally got hundreds of them in my collection of thousands of ge trannies. from around the 80's from memory? the chinese 128's can be a bit average. the uk 128's from magnatec were discontinued last year and mostly sounded really good after circuit adaption, so there's no need to disregard all newies. in every case you get bad eggs too so the guys on QA were not targeting audiophiles.

Quote from: EATyourGuitar on March 30, 2013, 03:37:36 AM
The retailer had these af128 listed germanium NOS pnp but they were silicon with %33 working %33 not working and %33 overpriced diodes (broken transistor). That is not good business or good transistors IMO. What i mean about the oxidation is a good sign that they are actually old.

It's really easy to oxidize stuff, harder to keep it shiny :P

yup i'll also chime in here to say i got 2 different loads of the reject j201s from tayda.  one in an order i placed around december and another i just recently placed (which was much smaller, just testing to see if they still had the same ones).  they do work, but as i use j201s in 2 of my production pedals as gain stages i can objectively say that the biasing is a bit off and they have significantly less gain than a real j201.   :(

Think about parts counterfeiting the next time you buckle your seat belt on an airplane.

Quote from: R.G. on April 10, 2013, 11:37:14 PM
Think about parts counterfeiting the next time you buckle your seat belt on an airplane.

thanks for that rg.   :icon_lol:

Quote from: R.G. on April 10, 2013, 11:37:14 PM
Think about parts counterfeiting the next time you buckle your seat belt on an airplane.

Think about it the next time you apply the breaks in your car... :o Luckily my life is not dependent on J201's or I would most likely be dead by now! 

Sorry for that. I can't *help* thinking about it. Being an engineer all the way down to your toes does that to you. You can't stop thinking "... now, how does that work?"

One of the first counterfeiting issues I'm aware of, dating back to the 1980s and 1990s is counterfeiting bolts and other hardware. I'm pretty sure it was a problem before I became aware of it.

Bolts, nuts, etc. come in grades, depending on the kind of material and its heat treating. Normal hardware store bolts are to grade 8 bolts as cream cheese is to wood in terms of mechanical properties. The higher grade bolts are used where there is a big mechanical load on the bolt and it absolutely, positively has to have all the strength it can. The only external differences are some pips embossed on the bolt heads. Someone long ago found that they could sell bolts for dollars each instead of cents each if the only change they made to their bolts was to emboss the pip-image on the head.

Of course, using cheese-steel for bolts in positions needing ultra-alloy, heat-treated super-steel means things like brake calipers coming off, wings falling off, engines coming loose and rattling around, little stuff like that.

I'll never fly again. Thanks R.G.  ;D

a little while ago, licensed repair centers of a famous Japanese car manufacturer replaced/sold ORIGINAL manufacturer`s brake discs in europe...


...and had to call them back/re-replace them,
coz`they themselves (= the manufacturer)
thought  they could get them cheaper from the "C"-country...

Makes me want to buy everything from smallbear, glad that guy's around.

Are there any JFET array IC's we could use instead of common J201's or other common JFETs?

Thiss just became a real issue for me -- I designed something (Cardinal trem) with fixed resistors that result in a distorted FET when real Fairchild J201s are used in place of the Tayda ones I designed the pedal around. Tayda is a common source -- and it's not like it's just a couple that are badly out of spec. Another builder confirmed that Tayda's work right in the pedal, and I tested with basically every one I had.

So I'm trying to decide what to do: Do I recalculate the drain resistors to work with the real part? Put a note in the build doc that if they're using Fairchild ones they might need to socket the drain resistors? Try to figure out what in-spec FET is the best match for the Tayda ones? Give up on the fixed resistors and tell people to socket the drain resistors regardless?

:(

Quote from: midwayfair on April 19, 2013, 02:17:21 PM
Thiss just became a real issue for me -- I designed something (Cardinal trem) with fixed resistors that result in a distorted FET when real Fairchild J201s are used in place of the Tayda ones I designed the pedal around. Tayda is a common source -- and it's not like it's just a couple that are badly out of spec. Another builder confirmed that Tayda's work right in the pedal, and I tested with basically every one I had.

So I'm trying to decide what to do: Do I recalculate the drain resistors to work with the real part? Put a note in the build doc that if they're using Fairchild ones they might need to socket the drain resistors? Try to figure out what in-spec FET is the best match for the Tayda ones? Give up on the fixed resistors and tell people to socket the drain resistors regardless?

:(

I personally think you should put a trim pot on figure out the drain resistors yourself and then give the end-user two sets of BOMs depending upon what J201s they have.  At least that's what I would prefer,  as someone who has bought PCBs from you before and plan to again in the future. That or per my previous crossed-out idea, could you not add trimpots in those spaces and have the user calibrate?

I'd call out the details like Bean does in his analog delays.  If you build it with this part, use this resistor.  If you build it with this part, use that resistor.  Simple and effective - assuming the JFETs from a particular source are consistent enough to work with this approach in your design.  Which from what people say, that could be a large contingency. 

Quote from: midwayfair on April 19, 2013, 02:17:21 PM
Thiss just became a real issue for me -- I designed something (Cardinal trem) with fixed resistors that result in a distorted FET when real Fairchild J201s are used in place of the Tayda ones I designed the pedal around. Tayda is a common source -- and it's not like it's just a couple that are badly out of spec. Another builder confirmed that Tayda's work right in the pedal, and I tested with basically every one I had.

So I'm trying to decide what to do: Do I recalculate the drain resistors to work with the real part? Put a note in the build doc that if they're using Fairchild ones they might need to socket the drain resistors? Try to figure out what in-spec FET is the best match for the Tayda ones? Give up on the fixed resistors and tell people to socket the drain resistors regardless?

:(

I can only speak as someone who has only a couple of pedals under his belt, but who was hoping to make this a long-term part of my life.  I had hoped to build a couple of things this year that require parts that are getting hard to find (J201, 2N5457).  I would hope that anyone developing new DIY pedals now would design them with reasonably priced and easy to source parts in mind whenever possible.  Why design something if in a year or two no-one can build it anyway?  It wasn't long ago that Fairchild discontinued a lot of through-hole parts, and already our coveted J201s are scarce and priced accordingly.  So why design for them?  I guess the question is, is there any other JFET you could use that is still being made?  And will TO-92 JFETs of any type still be made for much longer?  Maybe we all need to start thinking about SMT.

I have no trouble believing they fake everything now.

THE BAD
I ordered 50 CA3080 and 50 CA3046 ICs for synth repairs off of eBay (China) from two different sellers...they were all fake. These were compared with known-working ICs, tested in working socketed analog synth circuits. Honestly, I should have known better that the price was too good to be true, so I wasn't completely surprised when I found out, as these are fairly rare ICs.


THE GOOD
I bought LM13700s, PT2399's, ATMega328s, ATTinys, "greenie" Film capacitors, LEDs, and bags of various commonly used transistors all from Chinese eBay sellers that all checked out and worked fine in circuits, the caps had somewhat variable, but acceptable tolerances. Those are all still readily available parts (with LM13700's starting to become scarce).

THE SO-SO
The large bags of 1% tolerance metal film resistors I bought from Chinese eBayers turned out to be more like 10% tolerance....No big deal though for most stuff. There have been very few situations where I absolutely needed to have very tight tolerances for things to work properly (keyboard controller, VCO & VCFs, properly biased circuits, etc.), and for those important ones I always use 0.1% tolerance resistors. 

THE WARNING
The sellers for the parts I received that did not work were goodbuy711 (despite the 99.8% positive rating) and jorgeospina83. Please be advised.

THE LESSON
Personally, I will probably continue to buy certain parts from Chinese eBayers. For anyone that doesn't have the knowledge to know how to spot/test them, it absolutely is not worth taking your chances.

I personally have seen fakes of J201, 2N5457 and 2N5458... I still have a bunch of old J201's and half a reel of the MMBFJ201's which are excellent! I don't mind making the small tombstone adapter boards.. I use some really thin pcb that I got from the guy on ebay that sells pcb. I etch an entire sheet covered with the adapter boards, maybe 50 or 100 then I just pour out the MMBFJ201's and start soldering them to the sheet... When I am done I cut them with scissors since the pcb is super thin it cuts like paper. Or, you could just redesign your layouts for SOT-23.

What saddens me is that a lot of great dirt pedals are designed around J201s.

How will I build my BSIABs in the future? :-(


These are both J201s from Tayda different orders


The one in the left was purchased late last year the right a few months ago
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/20/agugazuq.jpg)

This is the one on the right notice the obvious silkscreen this is not present in the left one
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/20/y6uzeny6.jpg)

Quote from: Dingus on April 19, 2013, 02:24:40 PM
I personally think you should put a trim pot on figure out the drain resistors yourself and then give the end-user two sets of BOMs depending upon what J201s they have.  At least that's what I would prefer,  as someone who has bought PCBs from you before and plan to again in the future. That or per my previous crossed-out idea, could you not add trimpots in those spaces and have the user calibrate?

Trimpots have pretty horrible noise performance; and dialing the gain exactly wasn't a concern. However, having two parts with very different gain characteristics made that all go out the window.

Quote from: GGBB on April 19, 2013, 04:22:10 PM
I can only speak as someone who has only a couple of pedals under his belt, but who was hoping to make this a long-term part of my life.  I had hoped to build a couple of things this year that require parts that are getting hard to find (J201, 2N5457).  I would hope that anyone developing new DIY pedals now would design them with reasonably priced and easy to source parts in mind whenever possible.  Why design something if in a year or two no-one can build it anyway?  It wasn't long ago that Fairchild discontinued a lot of through-hole parts, and already our coveted J201s are scarce and priced accordingly.  So why design for them?  I guess the question is, is there any other JFET you could use that is still being made?  And will TO-92 JFETs of any type still be made for much longer?  Maybe we all need to start thinking about SMT.

Well, J201s exist in SMD. It's possible to solder legs to them and plug them into a through-hole PCB. So there's no reason not to design a circuit around J201s. There are also MILLIONS of these things around. I suspect that the present scarcity is partly an illusion caused by how recent Fairchild's discontinuation is. Everyone's out buying as many as they can get their hands on, which drives up the price and encourages counterfeiting. Commericial products will eventually adapt, then us DIYers will probably go on for years.

Through-hole parts in general are becoming obsolete; suggesting that we shouldn't design around a particular FET is like suggesting that we stop designing around through-hole resistors.

Also: A Fairchild J201 can be had for 50c from the store here, and 55c from Smallbear. That's not an expensive part -- it's the same as a couple good capacitors. It's just not a 2c transistor like a 2N3904.

Quote from: midwayfair on April 19, 2013, 10:19:31 PM
Through-hole parts in general are becoming obsolete; suggesting that we shouldn't design around a particular FET is like suggesting that we stop designing around through-hole resistors.

With all due respect Jon, I think that's a very inaccurate comparison.  A resistor is just a resistor, a FET is nowhere near as generic and the J201 seems to be one that has no good substitutes in specific applications.  Would you design a DIY pedal, with the intention of selling either PCBs or complete kits for it, or even just for the joy of having a pedal out there that DIYers like to build, if one or more parts were either too scarce or too expensive to make the enterprise worthwhile for the mass of DIYers?  Maybe the J201 isn't quite at that place right now, but it appears to be heading there at a rapid pace and my guess is that it will be there within the next few years or at least long before through-hole itself is completely unfeasible. 

And it's not just a matter of availability period, it's easy availability.  The biggest pain in building pedals I am finding is getting the parts.  I already spend as much on shipping as I do on parts, simply because I have to order some things from here, some things from there etc.

The DIY community needs your designs, Jon!  Please don't make it difficult to build them.

I think the bottom line at this point in time is to buy them from a well known, respectable and reliable source like the DIYSB store or smallbear! There may be others out there as well, maybe a list of good reliable "without a doubt" sources would be helpful!?

Buy from ebay or china or anywhere else and it's your choice... go for it if you're a person who likes to roll the dice. Personally, I would rather pay the extra 10 or 20 cents per part if I know I will be getting the real deal and not some turd painted to look like a steak...

I really wouldn't worry about the possibility of the J201 turning into a OC44. Outside of manufacturers and warehouses, there are so many pedal makers in the world, think how many TO-92 J201s are sitting on benches? $0.50 is not exorbitant price to pay. What do you foresee as the lowest price five years from now? 2 bucks? It's still way cheaper than germanium transistors and there aren't any shortage of those projects here.

Just last week I recieved genuine j201's from Smallbear and they have plenty in stock. After recently recieving j201's from Tayda that look much like the "fake" ones pictured, I decided to order a bunch more from the DIYSB store. I guess you can't have too many if you're into dirt boxes and high gain circuits.

I check the  Smallbar, but this time no stock... :icon_rolleyes:

That's strange, I thought Smallbear had over 400 of them when I ordered, looks like he has only 2 left from Vishay. The DIYSB store still has stock, better grab them while you can!

I did a bit of digging and found out that the j201 in TO-92 package is apparently still available from Linear Systems and InterFET, and the TO-92 2N5457 is still available from Central Semiconductor.

The more we freak out, the more rich dudes will buy these buy the thousand and gouge us for them later!  ;D

Quote from: pakrat on April 30, 2013, 01:19:55 PM
That's strange, I thought Smallbear had over 400 of them when I ordered, looks like he has only 2 left from Vishay.

We have plenty of both. I just told my assistant to post more, so pls check back.

SD

@garcho  You are right about that!

@smallbearelec  Thanks Steve.... 990 in stock!

Quote from: garcho on April 30, 2013, 02:04:34 PM
The more we freak out, the more rich dudes will buy these buy the thousand and gouge us for them later!

It might not be as surefire an investment as you think. One factor limiting what a brokerage can charge for such parts is the cost of buying surface-mount JFets and getting them bonded to headers. As part of ensuring the preservation of my furry hide and the livelihoods of my staff, I Have Investigated This, And It's Doable--at least for the forseeable future. Between the stock of TO-92 that I have accumulated and the ability to create work-alikes, there will be no shortage for DIY and small production. I have done, and will continue to do, my best to frustrate efforts to corner the market. Don't freak out, and shop with confidence.

Regards
SD

Fakes cost me a lot of money in wasted time re-working repairs and building equipment that doesn't work right for some reason. You get the new part and the lettering, finish, colour or die imprints or something else is different to the original. You think hmmmm, install the part and it's either noisy, hot, blows or simply doesn't work and you've got 100 of them. It's everything and it's getting worse.

Nowadays, where possible, I deal with traceable suppliers, reputable companies or trusted sources for my main components. They've all got a battle on to eliminate fakes, but supply chains get infiltrated and it's not impossible for the major component suppliers to get bitten. The problem is when you need to get unusual or obsolete parts sometimes you're tempted by low price and low postage. Here in England if you want to send a parcel back to Thailand or China you're in for a shock; that 'free shipping' that winged your cursed goods from Far-Eastern artisans to your front door doesn't work for free in reverse. It's more cost effective to throw away the items than to return them.

From China, Hong-Kong and Thailand I've had fake or misrepresented;

Pots
Power transistors
Capacitors
FETs
ICs of all descriptions
Circuit board material
Power resistors
Knobs
Switches
Connectors

Mainly branded with trusted manufacturers' logos. Some rub off easily to reveal inferior or unbranded components.

Now, I've also had decent stuff, but more bad than good, so I watch out. I bought a load of blue 3P3T switches and every one had an early bath. Some people get lucky with these. I didn't.

Setting up a screen printing operation and a few jigs to align components is easy. You've got to look at wage levels overseas to understand why this can be worthwhile. Get a job lot of TL072s, a couple of rubs on a sheet of wet-or-dry for each one (or acetone or whatever) and re-letter it as a precision op amp at 20x the price. So long as the pinouts are correct it will probably work to a degree.

I don't think there's any single product that isn't faked. But, If you go to a Mercedes garage for a part that costs £300 and see one brand new, boxed on Ebay for £57 "You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?" Same with electronic components.   

Well said Mick. The very first components I ever bought from ebay were fake CA3080E's. It took me a week to debug the build until I took a closer look at the chips. I replaced them with ones I got from Smallbear and the debug was over. Since then I just don't take the chance with ebay unless it's something you can't find anywhere else, it's just not worth the risk.

futurlec's J201s are also fakes and way more badly done than tayda's... sanding was so obvious the faces of the transistors were slanted and on some they didn't completely sand off the underlying manufacturer/part number branding.  at least 2 or 3 were possibly rebranded Fairchild U1898?  a few were also definitely Fairchild Jxxx but just likely not J201.  sad.   :(

I had an interesting finding recently. A friend wanted some J201 for an Azabache pcb, so I dug out the "real" ones, and put them in a simple breadboard circuit to make sure they would bias to the 5V required in the Aza instructions. I had a hard time finding any of these "real" J201's to bias at 5V at the drain. I then got out my Tayda J201's, and they biased up fine in this circuit. Then to be double sure, I removed all three known to be working and biasing correctly J201's from my working Aza pcb and tested them in the same breadboard circuit and they biased up fine, two of them were Tayda-sourced and the other one was a real one. I checked all the Tayda-sourced ones (I only had about 6 of them) and all but one were in spec for the Vgs cut-off for a J201, but all on the medium to high side for sure. The "real" ones had a lower Vgs cutoff and a lower Idss so the current through the device was too low to get the required 5V on the drain even with the 20K trimpot.

So that gives us a little bit more to think about, I think :) Unless I got it all screwed up. Which is always possible. So i guess I'm suggesting to individually test jfets for the intended circuit.

do your j201's have any branding on them? mine are all natsemi, and I've had them for about 10 years.

Sorry for necroposting... :icon_redface:
I just ordered 100 mpf102 for $32.80
Does it sound like a reasonable price or pure crap?
Lets wait a few weeks  :icon_biggrin:

which end of their specs are you hoping for, the 8V end or the 0V5 end?

33c fets always sounds good to me. you going to do the full suite of measures and catalogue, or just throw em onna floor and pick the first one?

Has anyone ever bought any transistors from Tayda? are they real?
I Bought a few J201s, 2N5088s, NJM4558s and TL082s. they seem to be legitimate, but i don't know how to and probably can't test them because i don't have a multimeter.
I use a engine diagnostic tool for voltage readings and stuff.

I just bought 25 each 2n3904 and 2n3906. I tested about half of each lot, the 3904 were hfe 220~230 and the 3906 were 270~300. there are a few "half-shots", and no recognisable brand name, but at 2c each, they'll do. also some 2n7000, I haven't tested yet.

get that meter!

Quote from: duck_arse on February 24, 2014, 08:17:16 AM
which end of their specs are you hoping for, the 8V end or the 0V5 end?

33c fets always sounds good to me. you going to do the full suite of measures and catalogue, or just throw em onna floor and pick the first one?

I never had more than 5 at the same time on my bench I think. This time I celebrate a measure party with the j201 I ordered from Tayda :-) I ordered before I found 20 of them in a drawer...

QuoteHas anyone ever bought any transistors from Tayda? are they real?

Of course they're real. No offense, but this thread is crazy. People's pedals don't work because they make mistakes, not because of fakes. Swim through the forum, you'll find a million threads that start out with someone thinking they have fake whatever because they bought cheapo parts. Inevitably, the issue is incorrect orientation, cold solder joints, shorts somewhere, messy vero, etc. Yes, there are some fakes of really expensive rare items, yes some cheapies are out-of-spec, but no one is wasting their time trying to con pedal builders into dropping 3 dollars on fake FETs, get real.

I agree with Gary 100%

It seems to be human nature to blame the non working condition of a build on a "bad" part.

I know......I was guilty of that when I first started building stompboxes.  :icon_wink:

Although for my first delay build (AD80) I received a bad/fake MN3005 which led me into several days of troubleshooting.

I was looking for a mistake that I made. When I received another 3005 from a different seller......it fired right up!

Quote from: garcho on February 26, 2014, 01:59:26 PM

QuoteHas anyone ever bought any transistors from Tayda? are they real?

Of course they're real. No offense, but this thread is crazy. People's pedals don't work because they make mistakes, not because of fakes. Swim through the forum, you'll find a million threads that start out with someone thinking they have fake whatever because they bought cheapo parts. Inevitably, the issue is incorrect orientation, cold solder joints, shorts somewhere, messy vero, etc. Yes, there are some fakes of really expensive rare items, yes some cheapies are out-of-spec, but no one is wasting their time trying to con pedal builders into dropping 3 dollars on fake FETs, get real.

Well, by "fake" most of us aren't talking about it not really being a transistor, or causing a build to fail, but rather that what's printed on the case isn't what it specs as. The "fakes" are a pain for two reasons: (1) Most of them are lower gain than the ones we want (J201s or 2N5457s), and (2) FETs are inconsistent enough without adding out-of-spec to the mix.

The gain issue is particularly relevant when making overdrives or FETzer valve stuff, because there's only so much voltage gain you can expect before you have to use a different bias point and mess up the sound qualities of the design.

If I buy 10 JFETs from Smallbear or the DIYSB forum, I can be reasonably sure I don't have to test them to find out if I need a different trimpot value or redo my biasing network so that something that's normally near 5-6V is suddenly 2-3V like they're a completely different transistor that's not even remotely comparable to the J201. When I was getting them from Tayda, I'd have to resort them when they came in the mail, and they're not any cheaper.

Quote from: midwayfair on February 26, 2014, 03:52:54 PM

Quote from: garcho on February 26, 2014, 01:59:26 PM

QuoteHas anyone ever bought any transistors from Tayda? are they real?

Of course they're real. No offense, but this thread is crazy. People's pedals don't work because they make mistakes, not because of fakes. Swim through the forum, you'll find a million threads that start out with someone thinking they have fake whatever because they bought cheapo parts. Inevitably, the issue is incorrect orientation, cold solder joints, shorts somewhere, messy vero, etc. Yes, there are some fakes of really expensive rare items, yes some cheapies are out-of-spec, but no one is wasting their time trying to con pedal builders into dropping 3 dollars on fake FETs, get real.

Well, by "fake" most of us aren't talking about it not really being a transistor, or causing a build to fail, but rather that what's printed on the case isn't what it specs as. The "fakes" are a pain for two reasons: (1) Most of them are lower gain than the ones we want (J201s or 2N5457s), and (2) FETs are inconsistent enough without adding out-of-spec to the mix.

The gain issue is particularly relevant when making overdrives or FETzer valve stuff, because there's only so much voltage gain you can expect before you have to use a different bias point and mess up the sound qualities of the design.

If I buy 10 JFETs from Smallbear or the DIYSB forum, I can be reasonably sure I don't have to test them to find out if I need a different trimpot value or redo my biasing network so that something that's normally near 5-6V is suddenly 2-3V like they're a completely different transistor that's not even remotely comparable to the J201. When I was getting them from Tayda, I'd have to resort them when they came in the mail, and they're not any cheaper.

Buy 100smd ones from mouser and order a bunch of those adapter boards I uploaded to oshpark for use in the other thread

No fakes then:)

Jon, unlike many contributors to threads about fake parts, you make lots of pedals and understand what you want out of a component. I'm not trying to shoot anyone down but if builders less prolific than you convince themselves fakes are a significant concern, they might waste time and money shopping for more parts instead of just building more things and learning a little theory and making less cold joints and shorts and broken wires, etc. I keep an organizer tray of ICs that for one reason or another I suspect to be dead. There always ends up being at least a few that when given a second chance before being thrown magically work again. My breadboarding skill is occasionally impressing to myself, but obviously leaves much to be desired...  :icon_redface:  Anyway, I think the fake thing is overhyped but I've overstated my case now.
I've always been a vocal proponent of Small Bear. If you can put together a shopping list, the 'dreaded' (and completely fair) shipping prices are marginal and you will receive standard quality or better parts, as well as great customer service. We also maintain a guitar-centric component shop (certainly not the only but the most stocked and well known) for the community, which is priceless.

EDIT: I bit the bullet Nick, bravely going forward into the not so distant past of SMD technology!

Quote from: garcho on February 26, 2014, 08:44:32 PMif builders less prolific than you convince themselves fakes are a significant concern, they might waste time and money shopping for more parts instead of just building more things and learning a little theory and making less cold joints and shorts and broken wires, etc.

On the other hand, if someone less technically inclined about such things decides to build a Fetzer and gets all their parts including the FETs online from Discount Pedal Parts Emporium because they have everything and they are cheap, and then find their pedal doesn't work properly or sound right and they can't figure out why, and it turns out to be, after a big long debugging thread here, out-of-spec FETs, which when replaced by ones from Small Bear, work properly and sound great, isn't that just as non-productive?  (Talk about your run-on sentences.)

I agree about just building, learning, and honing skill, but bad parts can be a real frustration and discouragement as well as a huge waste of time.  I think once you go down that road you forget about iffy discount suppliers, so why bother in the first place?

I meant if they were out of speck, Not if they were actually functioning or not. I do prefer to place as few orders as possible, and use a extremely low budget so tayda works good for me. I am going to get a Multimeter and buy some parts from Small Bear and Aron soon and will get some J201 for comparison to see if there out of speck.

Quote from: midwayfair on February 26, 2014, 03:52:54 PM

Quote from: garcho on February 26, 2014, 01:59:26 PM

QuoteHas anyone ever bought any transistors from Tayda? are they real?

Of course they're real. No offense, but this thread is crazy. People's pedals don't work because they make mistakes, not because of fakes. Swim through the forum, you'll find a million threads that start out with someone thinking they have fake whatever because they bought cheapo parts. Inevitably, the issue is incorrect orientation, cold solder joints, shorts somewhere, messy vero, etc. Yes, there are some fakes of really expensive rare items, yes some cheapies are out-of-spec, but no one is wasting their time trying to con pedal builders into dropping 3 dollars on fake FETs, get real.

Well, by "fake" most of us aren't talking about it not really being a transistor, or causing a build to fail, but rather that what's printed on the case isn't what it specs as. The "fakes" are a pain for two reasons: (1) Most of them are lower gain than the ones we want (J201s or 2N5457s), and (2) FETs are inconsistent enough without adding out-of-spec to the mix.

The gain issue is particularly relevant when making overdrives or FETzer valve stuff, because there's only so much voltage gain you can expect before you have to use a different bias point and mess up the sound qualities of the design.

If I buy 10 JFETs from Smallbear or the DIYSB forum, I can be reasonably sure I don't have to test them to find out if I need a different trimpot value or redo my biasing network so that something that's normally near 5-6V is suddenly 2-3V like they're a completely different transistor that's not even remotely comparable to the J201. When I was getting them from Tayda, I'd have to resort them when they came in the mail, and they're not any cheaper.

I've gotten Jfets from Tayda that had a VGS that was out of spec.  So they were most likely either: a.) relabeled JFets of another type or b.) way out of spec real J201's.  Either way, they weren't what I wanted.

At one point, I was researching a group buy of J201s and 2N5457s for the DIY community.  I deal with China as part of my day job, so I asked one of the folks I know in China to get some samples of J201 and 2n5457 for me from a reputable seller (ie: a reputable place with a storefront, not a garage/warehouse eBay type seller).  I bought 100 samples of each type with plans to buy thousands more if legit.

To cut to the chase, all were fake.  In fact, one of them was a p-channel jFET, not an n-channel jFet so they didn't even relabel the correct type.  :-)

I have some known legit ones here for comparison.  And everything I've gotten from Steve at Small Bear has been legit.  I wish I would've stocked up at Mouser before they went EOL.  Luckily, I happen to like working with SMT bits.

Just reviving this old thread to share my experiences with buying fake JFETs.

I just received 10x fake 2n5457 from polida this week. When tested on the Peak Atlas DCA75 Pro they all show the correct range of pinch-off voltage, Idss saturation current, etc, BUT the pinout is wrong.

2n5457 should have the gate on the end. These all have their gate in the middle.

I'm eventually going to insulate and twist the leads on one and try it in something to see if they're suitable work-alikes for something, but for now I'm pretty disappointed in what I got. Now I'm looking at my desk (covered in $50 worth of various ICs from the same order which almost all have suspiciously similar looking laser engraving...) and wondering what else I bought that isn't quite as described.

Anybody out there have any idea what JFET has similar specs to a 2n5457, but with the gate in the middle??

that's a turd. luckily you can normally tell (after learning your lesson) from the picture. fairchild FETs have a letter on the back. if i were buying a lot i'd normally ask "does it match the picture" and if i don't get a response back then let it go.

everyone said "you're making a fuss over nothing". and now, gone. i notice even small bear electronics can't keep a stock of fairchild J201 anymore. luckily i bought a stack of real 2n5457 for the future cheap.

the SMD versions of 2n5457 and j201 use gate in the middle.

sorry i don't know what they might have been originally.

Could be BF series with gate in middle. Don't know why anyone should fake them as something else. If they were cheap and work and you've been smart enough to catch the pin-out change, I'd count it as a win.
I know a main UK supplier that has Fairchild TO-92 2n5457 in stock. 1-24 price of £1.04 each inc tax (that would be $1.63USD). It's the only Jfet they have of any kind.

k30A has middle gate, near specs. one of the BF family is also middle gate, but the bf245's are end-gate, but opposite to 2n5457.

Small Bear still has some stock of real FETs.

Also, Central Semiconductor has started making TO-92 2n5457s again.  They are pricey, but Mouser does a few in stock:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=2n5457

what am I looking for on the data sheet? my measuring gadget shows - I. which I am guessing is current? and a miliamps I think..its a bunch of symbols  - .51 - .74  they read

then a Vgs = 500-525

not sure how to read those data sheets.

Hairball Audio (Mike Mabe in Seattle who does the 1176 FET compressor kits; wicked killer products btw) sells original Fairchild 2n5457's for what comes out to 0.50 each before shipping, so I just bought 10 pairs a few minutes ago. With shipping they come out close to $1 each, but it's still better price than I'm seeing in most places.

They are the leftovers from after sorting through hundreds (or thousands?) of FETs and matching them for their Vgs curve for use in his 1176 compressor kits. Each unit has 2 FETs, one which acts as a variable resistor to ground in a feedback configuration; the more signal going in the more the compressor opens up and dumps signal to ground, while the other FET is used in the VU meter, so each must be matched relatively close for the meter to track gain reduction with any accuracy. So I can only imagine that he ends up with piles of FETs that don't meet his specs.

I think I'll also buy some from Smallbear too, then I'll have enough to last me for awhile.

At least I'll know these orders will all be authentic  ;)

Posted this in another forum bout a year ago in response to the never ending debate in regards to suspected counterfeit electronic components...

To the nay-sayers - disbelievers
Look up/google - Detection of counterfeit electronic components through ambient mass spectrometry and chemometrics

Would Mouser, Digi-Key and other large distributors employ large "Anti-Counterfeit Parts Risk Mitigation" task forces if this were complete non sense?
http://www.mouser.com/anticounterfeitparts/
http://www.mouser.com/quality/

So, the next time you guys load your baskets up at Tayda just keep in mind... They are not a "AS9100C Registered Distributor" and they have no certifications what so ever the last time I looked but, they do however have a great satisfaction guarantee and return policy and from what I have seen they make good on it almost 100% of the time. I personally do not want to call up or email a supplier every time and ask for a refund or in store credit... I would prefer to get what I ordered the 1st time!

These "Hobbyist Suppliers" are just that and nothing more. I doubt they supply to the military, automotive, aviation, medical or any others that require industry wide certification of their components. Handling, packaging and delivery of components also falls under the guidelines of these certifications and must be taken into consideration as well.

If the supplier/s that you are buying from is not a "AS9100C Registered Distributor" with the following certifications then good luck to you and your pedals or whatever you are building...
AS9100C and ISO9001:2008 and ANSI/ESD S20.20-2007 certifications.

If they are registered and certified they will proudly and publicly display their certifications!
http://www.mouser.com/as9100C/
(http://www.mouser.com/images/as9100c-landing-header.jpg)


This is a HUGE deal for medical, aviation, military and countless other industries where lives and or money hang in the balance. They can not afford to have failures due to counterfeit, failing or out of spec/reject components and go to great measures to make sure this does not happen. This is nothing new and has been in place for years...

Also, keep in mind that this is not just something that is happening with a few parts like JFETs and PT2399's... This is industry wide and they do it with everything they possibly can! It is a multi-billion dollar maybe trillion dollar a year market and they can re-mark these components and ship them faster than you can say stompbox!

Quote from: J0K3RX on August 16, 2015, 08:41:13 PM

These "Hobbyist Suppliers" are just that and nothing more. I doubt they supply to the military, automotive, aviation, medical or any others that require industry wide certification of their components. Handling, packaging and delivery of components also falls under the guidelines of these certifications and must be taken into consideration as well.

There is zero chance any of those industries would buy something from Tayda, for many reasons, quality being the primary one.  On a side note, there were some rumors of military contractors buying parts from Radio Shack back in the 80's because of convenience or scheduling issues.  I guess they don't have to worry about that anymore.

Quote from: hymenoptera on August 16, 2015, 07:12:13 AM
I just received 10x fake 2n5457 from polida this week. When tested on the Peak Atlas DCA75 Pro they all show the correct range of pinch-off voltage, Idss saturation current, etc, BUT the pinout is wrong.

I bought from the same seller 08/31/15. I'm currently arguing with them to get my money back.
The ones I got look sanded, the leads are corroded, and have no markings in the back. Oh, and wrong pinout!
It pisses me off because I've bought from polida2008 in the past and had good quality. I really thought they were above such crap, but I see they couldn't resist the higher profits, just like other chinese sellers.

Quote from: hymenoptera on August 16, 2015, 07:12:13 AM
2n5457 should have the gate on the end. These all have their gate in the middle.

Anybody out there have any idea what JFET has similar specs to a 2n5457, but with the gate in the middle??

Pinout is same as 2N3819. I need to do the VP and Idss test posted on this thread to see what I have. I suspect they're 2N3819s. What were your values? I'll see if it matches mine.

I bought 2N5458s from Tayda, and they're correct pinout, look the part, and work great. Tayda has been out of 5457s for a long time now, so maybe they're having trouble finding a legit supply of them.
Tayda is in Thailand, not China.. not sure if that matters, but I haven't had problems with them, yet <fingers crossed>.

I'm just gonna order MMBF5457s from digikey. It's $5.47CDN for 10.. not cheap but at least I know they're real. Well.. not cheap compared to fake chinese parts on eBay.. so it's actually a very good price all things considered.

Daemons

I buy everything from tayda except my active parts come from small bear or this other dude on ebay, who I tracked to his facebook page and looked at all his projects. He is legit. his work is clean and beautiful and is money back guarantee like small bear if things dont measure out right. 

My new peak atlas should arrive in mail friday!!  I want to get me a bench power supply, a function ac generator and oscilloscope like we have in lab. I know they throw stuff out sometimes when they upgrade, I might have to dumpster dive for an item lol

maybe the forum has some outdated, old testors they no longer use that might be perfect for a first year EE student on the cheap  :)

polida ripped me off as well..I got some Fets and IC that would not work despite twisting legs.  I know RG probably will hate me but I ordered six of the juried engineering IC chips just to see what they were all about and run some tests with the other ICS I have. I only paid a dollar piece which is double the bear but i couldnt resist doing the a/b side by side and in same circuit tests

Hello,

A quick update... I got my money back from polida for my Fake 2N5457s. I had to threaten them with neg feedback and opening a case with eBay for counterfeit item to get my refund, but it worked.
They still kept delaying it, until I sent them a note last night saying I guess they do want me to open a case and leave neg feedback, since I still hadn't received my refund yet. That seemed to get them to move.

It's very unpleasant to have to deal with miscreants like these shady sellers from China. I think eBay needs to make it easier for victims to report, and claim counterfeit items. As it is now, if you open a case the seller can demand that you ship the item back at your cost in order to get your money back, for an item that is counterfeit.. how is that right? They know you're on the losing end.. so they try to delay everything past your ability of leaving feedback, and then they know you have no power over them and they get away with it.

Anyways, I've come to the conclusion that there are no more 2N5457 being manufactured in TO-92 case, only SMT.
2n5458 seems to be the last ones, and I'm guessing it's only until the current stock is depleted. Better stock up on SMD adapter boards, as that's where we're heading folks..

D.

I have embraced the new SMD overlords. All our favorite JFETs are available and even some great ones that never appeared in TO-92. The SMD versions have much more consistent specs, too.

In fact, just ordered this:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77962/Photos/jfet%20fixture%20PCb.png)


For use with this:
(http://www.wvshare.com/img/devkit/Socket/499-P44-10%20(REV.B)/499-P44-10%20(REV.B)-3.jpg)

jubal81, what is it??

the SMD to DIP boards are cheap and easy

Quote from: jubal81 on September 21, 2015, 03:52:11 PM
I have embraced the new SMD overlords. All our favorite JFETs are available and even some great ones that never appeared in TO-92. The SMD versions have much more consistent specs, too.

In fact, just ordered this:
(https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AABVYFn19zrXBmpUo_rNkEO9vQp2iXjJwgJ-IV5sCkzlWw/12/77962/png/32x32/1/1442869200/0/2/Screenshot%202015-09-21%2014.49.17.png/CIrhBCABIAIgAyAEIAUgBiAHKAIoBw/t0ZWC38t7O1y6FlxBLOL2I2eHvaX2bc-ZB5w2qhjJFM?size=1280x960&size_mode=2)


For use with this:
(http://www.wvshare.com/img/devkit/Socket/499-P44-10%20(REV.B)/499-P44-10%20(REV.B)-3.jpg)

Those are useful.  I use one of those for testing and matching FETs.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/pickdropper/Test%20Information/SOT-23TestSocketopen_zps78447c97.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pickdropper/media/Test%20Information/SOT-23TestSocketopen_zps78447c97.jpg.html)

You do have to be careful when loading it.  It's fairly easy to get the pins misaligned.

I shared some SMD JFET adapter boards on OSH park anyone can order. There are two versions. One for DGS, and the other for GSD. Each has SMD pads on either side, meaning you can use any SMD JFET with either one, depending on what you need for the specific effect. GSD is the more common for us (5457, 201).

Here's a link to my shared projects:
https://oshpark.com/profiles/Jubal81

(https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AADilV23JD4Si_xDpaVf06Hdg-QBTvFH-z8KDXDAMTqh5w/12/77962/png/32x32/1/1442876400/0/2/Screenshot%202015-09-21%2016.46.33.png/CIrhBCABIAIgAyAEIAUgBiAHKAIoBw/a1hwLh1yC2rAV9XsrY5tbIna4NYUujD1bMBxQmMc7gU?size=1280x960&size_mode=2)

I posted some old-school one's in the for sale section yesterday.

My "final" stash.

Mark

Quote from: Daemons on September 21, 2015, 11:50:37 AM


Anyways, I've come to the conclusion that there are no more 2N5457 being manufactured in TO-92 case, only SMT.

Actually, Central Semiconductor spooled up production of the 2n5457 in the TO-92 package.  The downside is they are expensive in small quantities.  They come down to about 40 cents if you get a reel of 2500.  Still, that leaves hope that somebody like Small Bear or another vendor like that might be able to continue to stock them, albeit likely at a higher price than they currently offer.

Of course, the SMT option is always there, too.

Quote from: jubal81 on September 21, 2015, 03:52:11 PM
I have embraced the new SMD overlords. All our favorite JFETs are available and even some great ones that never appeared in TO-92. The SMD versions have much more consistent specs, too.

In fact, just ordered this:
(https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AABVYFn19zrXBmpUo_rNkEO9vQp2iXjJwgJ-IV5sCkzlWw/12/77962/png/32x32/1/1442869200/0/2/Screenshot%202015-09-21%2014.49.17.png/CIrhBCABIAIgAyAEIAUgBiAHKAIoBw/t0ZWC38t7O1y6FlxBLOL2I2eHvaX2bc-ZB5w2qhjJFM?size=1280x960&size_mode=2)


For use with this:
(http://www.wvshare.com/img/devkit/Socket/499-P44-10%20(REV.B)/499-P44-10%20(REV.B)-3.jpg)

jubal - I know you won't believe this, but I can't see the upper pic. and, when I copy the dropbox garble from source, I get an error. yes, I can hear the snickkkering, but can you find a somewhere I can see, or at least tell me what it is?

Eh, ever since CLoudapp stopped being free, I've not found a great ing hosting solution.

Anyway, it's a PCB I made to go with that SMD testing fixture. 6 pins on the bottom to fit onto a breadboard or - hopefully - a custom designed testing platform, and a SIP header.
That fixture allows you to test SMD components without having to solder. Pop one in, close the hatch, test, remove. The downside, of course, is that they are steep - about $30 each.
Really wish I knew how to program. Love to make an integrated JFET testing rig that measures everything and calculates resistor values for you.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77962/Photos/jfet%20fixture%20PCb.png)

I have two words for you jubal: imgur and thank you.

Quote from: LightSoundGeometry on September 16, 2015, 09:19:36 PM
I buy everything from tayda except my active parts come from small bear or this other dude on ebay, who I tracked to his facebook page and looked at all his projects. He is legit. his work is clean and beautiful and is money back guarantee like small bear if things dont measure out right. 

My new peak atlas should arrive in mail friday!!  I want to get me a bench power supply, a function ac generator and oscilloscope like we have in lab. I know they throw stuff out sometimes when they upgrade, I might have to dumpster dive for an item lol

maybe the forum has some outdated, old testors they no longer use that might be perfect for a first year EE student on the cheap  :)

polida ripped me off as well..I got some Fets and IC that would not work despite twisting legs.  I know RG probably will hate me but I ordered six of the juried engineering IC chips just to see what they were all about and run some tests with the other ICS I have. I only paid a dollar piece which is double the bear but i couldnt resist doing the a/b side by side and in same circuit tests

Hey, I hear that Juried Engineering cat is a pretty good guy.  :)

> two words for you jubal: imgur and

Imgur seems to have recently quit the anonymous posting idea. You need a user-name. I had a free one once, but filled-up my quota, and they wanted to charge me.

TinyPic.com is still free/anonymous.

some users find tinypic problematic ......

I use photobucket but every time you enter it, it seems like they have changed the user interface.  Still, I have over 400 photos and no trouble posting pictures from it:

(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/amptramp1/TinyCAD/DSC00304.jpg)

This is a Washburn as retrieved from the garbage.  Interesting what you find when you walk the dog on garbage day.

I need a dog.

The gallery still works.

Quote from: PRR on September 23, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
>
Imgur seems to have recently quit the anonymous posting idea. You need a user-name. I had a free one once, but filled-up my quota, and they wanted to charge me.

just checked this, as i used to use imgur before switching to Dropbox, and i was able to upload this Inception-like pic of the Imgur upload button, logged out. The button has been moved though, i think. Maybe there's more to the limitations i'm not realising.

(http://i.imgur.com/B5qp2mw.png)

Quote from: amptramp on September 24, 2015, 11:26:57 AM
I use photobucket but every time you enter it, it seems like they have changed the user interface.  Still, I have over 400 photos and no trouble posting pictures from it:

(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/amptramp1/TinyCAD/DSC00304.jpg)

This is a Washburn as retrieved from the garbage.  Interesting what you find when you walk the dog on garbage day.

I really like the full view of the swimming pool route next to the swimming pool.  That's solid photo composition there.   :icon_mrgreen:

I like the Yeti just out of frame to the right  :o ;D

Adds a sense of mystery and suspense....

Especially since Bumbles sink  ;)

A better view of the "yeti":

(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/amptramp1/TinyCAD/DSC00309.jpg)

Dogs have lived here since 1988 and the back lawn has suffered, especially since it is fairly small with the pool there.

Our rabbit would appreciate your dandelions, the yeti not so much.
dave

Quote from: PRR on September 23, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
> two words for you jubal: imgur and

Imgur seems to have recently quit the anonymous posting idea. You need a user-name. I had a free one once, but filled-up my quota, and they wanted to charge me.

Still working as anon here...... or not!

amptramp, I like the pic where the yeti first climbs out of the guitar hulk.

also, I see tinypic is a subsidiary of botophuckett, which explains a few things this end.

I recently purchased some 2N5484 from adeleparts2010 off eBay. They measure IDSS of 32uA@15V (yes that is correct) versus minimum spec of 1mA, and VGS off of -600mV. In a standard common source configuration with VDD = 15V, RD = 47k, RS = 10k, RG = 1M (to gnd), the VGS forward biases to 0.6V. It should typically be negative biased to around 1 - 1.5V in this circuit.

I don't know what these parts are, but they are most certainly not 2N5484s.

Quote from: jonny.reckless on September 01, 2017, 01:17:35 AM
I recently purchased some 2N5484 from adeleparts2010 off eBay. They measure IDSS of 32uA@15V (yes that is correct) versus minimum spec of 1mA, and VGS off of -600mV. In a standard common source configuration with VDD = 15V, RD = 47k, RS = 10k, RG = 1M (to gnd), the VGS forward biases to 0.6V. It should typically be negative biased to around 1 - 1.5V in this circuit.

I don't know what these parts are, but they are most certainly not 2N5484s.

Yep. I have 10 x 2N5457 which not only have the wrong specs, but have the wrong pinout! DGS instead of DSG. Bought them from Polida2008. Seller was arguing with me they were genuine Fairchild.. you can see they were sanded down and re-etched. As best as I could tell, they were 2n3819s, and not even very good ones.

(https://s26.postimg.org/e0eujkwgl/20150916_095745sm.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e0eujkwgl/)

I also ended up with fake Omron relays from that same seller, so you can add him to your blacklist.

Marc

ps. After threatening the seller with neg feedback to get a refund, he's blocked me from buying from him. LOL

those ^ legs are a real mess. very un-fairchild-like.

Quote from: jonny.reckless on September 01, 2017, 01:17:35 AM
I recently purchased some 2N5484 from adeleparts2010 off eBay. They measure IDSS of 32uA@15V (yes that is correct) versus minimum spec of 1mA, and VGS off of -600mV. In a standard common source configuration with VDD = 15V, RD = 47k, RS = 10k, RG = 1M (to gnd), the VGS forward biases to 0.6V. It should typically be negative biased to around 1 - 1.5V in this circuit.

I don't know what these parts are, but they are most certainly not 2N5484s.

Nothing has changed. Against my better knowledge I purchased 10x 2N5457 and 5x 2N5484 from adeleparts2010 in December. None worked. They did issue a refund when I complained.

I built two test rigs, RG's and the "new improved" one, to check these out. I also had some 2N5457 from Mouser, and from an earlier eBay order (don't remember the vendor, this would have been years ago). The old eBay 2N5457s look exactly like the ones I now received (Fairchild stamp, no letter in the back, etc.) - except they seem to be genuine. (I also had a bag from yet another ancient eBay deal which was full of fakes. Oh well.) The values were in the same range as the ones from Mouser (which have an Onsemi stamp). However, of the whole bunch (maybe 40 working JFETs all up) only two measured Vgs >-1.0V, with the majority being in the -0.6V...-0.8V range. I only ran the new batch through the "new improved" matcher so don't know (yet) how these would have behaved with that one. I'm now left wondering what to make of this (and what to make with these).

Recently got fake 2N5458's from eBay (China).  But, now have a good stash of real old-stock Motorola's.

MC

Hi,

first post here  :)

Stumbled across this thread via google, only a reading member up to now...

Bought several ICs from ebay, and nearly all of them were fakes, sellers were the last two mentioned here, pol* and adel*. Voltage doublers, standard ICs (LM 833 e.g.), LM308, MN3008, all sanded, reprinted. The voltage doublers double nevertheless, the op amps work, although I did not compare to the same model from a reliable source yet. None of the MN3008 worked. ICs sold as new were clearly desoldered. All J201 I got from those sources seem to be fakes. All these sellers had a good reputation at ebay. I had left a positive feedback before I even noticed what junk I got, possibly others did the same.

My advice is to stay clear from these sellers mentioned above. Perhaps they do not even know what rubbish they sell, but they do not care either.

We need a fake sellers list on this forum.

Even surface mount JFETs are going obsolete now. Seems the world doesn't want to use them anymore. We're very worried at work. :icon_eek:
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/PCNs/Vishay/PCN-SIL-0052008%20Rev%202.pdf

On the subject of creating a list of bad vendors...

adeleparts2010 on ebay had sold me a load of fake B245B.
So far that's the only fake part that I've received in my few years of DIY electronics and also my only purchase with that vendor. In a circuit with over 600 parts this bastard stumped me for over a month.

Ahhh shit. 50 pieces of 2N5485 from adeleparts2010 are testing weirdly - 0 for Vp in the simple JFET tester.

So that's the explanation then?

Let me see if I can get my money back. Damn it. Wish I had seen this thread before purchasing. Thanks gents.

Here are the details for this seller that come up when I request return/refund.

ZhenYi Chen
1914,Wanke Huizhi Center,Changhua Road, Wuhou District
Cheng Du, 四川省, 610045

Quote from: tubegeek on December 24, 2019, 01:53:35 AM
Ahhh shit. 50 pieces of 2N5485 from adeleparts2010 are testing weirdly - 0 for Vp in the simple JFET tester.

So that's the explanation then?

Let me see if I can get my money back. Damn it. Wish I had seen this thread before purchasing. Thanks gents.

Yeah they're bastards for sure.

I seem to have better luck using UTSOURCE for obsolete parts. Though often I'll receive desoldered/used ICs. No big deal - as long as they work and the price was reasonable to offset the chance of bad ones being in the batch.

-KM

Quickly received a refund for $10.52 on a 13.24 transaction.

Out 2.72, not the end of the world (probably deducted the shipping and their fee.) I've requested that they issue a refund for the balance, I don't care that they got hit with those costs, they're selling counterfeit parts for crying out loud.

But I'm at least not out that much at this point.

Of course I'll negative feedback once all is said and done. Bastards.

Quote from: tubegeek on December 24, 2019, 11:58:29 PM
Of course I'll negative feedback once all is said and done. Bastards.

Did they restore that feature?

I ask because I remember LONG ago when I received some bad items from a seller, I filed a complaint through eBay and ended up getting refunded. When I went back to leave feedback about the transaction, I was told (by EBay) that I could not leave a (negative) feedback since the seller refunded. Seemed stupid to me but that was what I was told.

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 25, 2019, 01:55:21 AM
Did they restore that feature?

I guess we'll see! I "escalated" the refund complaint - Merry Christmas, adeleparts2010! - and asked for the rest of my money. No way should I pay for shipping of an item that's not as advertised - I believe the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) has my back on this, but that's a US law and it's a Chinese seller so....

Trade wars are good, and easy to win, or so I hear.

FYI Central Semiconductor have recently redesigned all their JFET masks to ensure long term supply.
Here's the JFETs Parametric Search section on their website.
https://my.centralsemi.com/paraSearch/parametricSearch_v1_1.php?task=bldPartTable2&PGroup=30&subGroup=10

Quote from: merlinb on February 20, 2020, 05:35:20 AM
FYI Central ...

Stingy with free samples apparently though :(

But good info and good news thanks!

I just bought a few BF245B Fairchild from an elect store near my apt which has been my main source for years.
These "fets" are nice low gain NPNs for a Fuzz Face  :icon_lol: >:( :icon_lol: >:(

mac