Yo all,
Just finishing up a Tau Pipe phaser build, and I thought I would do another "Hen's Tooth Cafe" installment. Just sucks that my camera doesn't record in stereo, you just can't appreciate the swooshing from left to right, or the dissonance that can be created between the two fields. All I can do is try to describe it, like a cheese eating high-schooler. :icon_lol:
Maybe it's time I invest in one of those Zoom recorders?
Or maybe a script? :icon_mrgreen:
Well, thanks for bearing with me. I'll post more pics when I have the proper bypass switch installed. BTW, I managed to pick up a "Son of Storm Tide Flanger" kit the other day, so look to see that here in the future.
Cheers all,
Dino
Great job that sounds AMAZING
(http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-04-02/1238680475832.jpg)
dino!!!!
right ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sounds AWESOME!! even in mono!!
Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on September 25, 2012, 07:20:55 PM
dino!!!!
right ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sounds AWESOME!! even in mono!!
Yup, does sound cool, but like I said, stereo is the cats a$$ with this thing. The way the frequencies go in and out, and left to right, are really freaky. The pipe sound is tops too. I wish my studio wasn`t packed away, or else I would have recorded a stereo clip. Then you could listen to it with headphones, and really get blown away. Although I understate the vibrato effect, it`s cool too, the way it pans back and forth left and right. It sounds pretty damn close to a Leslie in stereo.
When I read the title I thought you meant you needed a stereo VIDEO camera to be able to capture the complexity of the PCB ;D
very cool....sounds more flangey than phasey to my ears...
awesome pedal even in mono....nice!.. 8)
Quote from: ~arph on September 26, 2012, 10:36:06 AM
When I read the title I thought you meant you needed a stereo VIDEO camera to be able to capture the complexity of the PCB ;D
Phhhtttt! Wait 'till you see the Storm Tide Flanger...
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTI4MFg4NzA=/$(KGrHqN,!rEF!YRFkepGBQWy7Jcsiw~~60_3.JPG)
Gonna need an IMAX camera for this sucker! That, and THX sound. :icon_mrgreen:
that sounds insane. very much want.
Populated SOST PCB. That's the easy part. Now to wire it up. Thats a whole different story... :icon_lol:
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01402.jpg)
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on September 26, 2012, 01:14:14 PM
Populated SOST PCB. That's the easy part. Now to wire it up. Thats a whole different story... :icon_lol:
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01402.jpg)
Awwww DUUUUUDE!!!!!!
Yup. This one is going right up there with the Phase II. :icon_lol:
Quote from: digi2t on September 26, 2012, 11:37:50 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTI4MFg4NzA=/$(KGrHqN,!rEF!YRFkepGBQWy7Jcsiw~~60_3.JPG)
TDA1022.... 2 of them.... UGH! :-\
vero layout? :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:
<pink ducks>
Hi,
Nice demo. Can you share where/what project box you are using to house the large pcb? And also I see that you are using a clamp to hold the box (nice idea), but what is holding the clamp? Maybe post an image of the holder?
Thank you,
Quote from: newperson on September 27, 2012, 04:30:02 AM
Hi,
Nice demo. Can you share where/what project box you are using to house the large pcb? And also I see that you are using a clamp to hold the box (nice idea), but what is holding the clamp? Maybe post an image of the holder?
Thank you,
For really large projects, such as this, I use the G124MF Multicomp enclosures. They can be found at Newark Elelctronics, and also come in black, and grey. I prefer the natural aluminium myself. For their size, they are very reasonably priced. Here is the Newark web page;
http://canada.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=J1LKSNJ00QG32CXDUZ1G2WQ?N=422&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=g124mf&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&exposeLevel2Refinement=true&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=14043 (http://canada.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=J1LKSNJ00QG32CXDUZ1G2WQ?N=422&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=g124mf&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&exposeLevel2Refinement=true&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=14043)
Pics of two other projects I've done using the same enclosure;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Ring%20Stinger/DSCF0961.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Ludwig%20Phase%202/DSCF1169.jpg)
The rails are brushed aluminium kitchen drawer handles, 3.5" centers, available at Home Depot.
As for the table clamp. It's just that... clamped to the table. It's made by Wilton Tools, it's called the Multi-Grip.
(http://www.hanessupply.com/webcatalog/PicturesCategory400/Multi%20-Grip%20Holding%20System.jpg)
Cost me about 40$ at the time, but I've seen them on Ebay for around 25$. The base also turns 360 degrees, so you can have you work at any angle, and the jaws open up to 12", so holding even a large enclosure is no problem. I use it for all my board work as well. My "bread and butter" tool.
Thank you for the link and information. I was seeing that clamp as just the regular hand held slide clamp. That picture clears up plenty.
Fantastic Dino! I really like the sound of that one. I've listened to the clip about 5 times. Interesting circuit too. Major build, well done!
Quote from: Ronan on September 28, 2012, 10:55:54 PM
Fantastic Dino! I really like the sound of that one. I've listened to the clip about 5 times. Interesting circuit too. Major build, well done!
Thanks Ian. It`s got a unique character for a phaser. I find it sounds most interesting with really long sweeps, or just setting the depth and pitch at a certain place, and playing with the resonance to get a pipe tone. I don`t regret this one.
I salute your diligence, sir! Great work, nice build.
Great sounds, even in mono. The sweep is something special. A nice illustration of the hypertriangular thing.
Been off the forum a while great to see another Tau popping up!!
Wish I could have gotten the SOST flanger PCB before Juergen passed away (RIP). Though I have a feeling that in the spirit of DIY and the strong network surrounding the man that some of those projects will resurface again later and his legacy will live on through new builds.
strategy
QuoteI salute your diligence, sir! Great work, nice build.
Great sounds, even in mono. The sweep is something special. A nice illustration of the hypertriangular thing.
Thanks Mark. Still a bit of mess right now. Just waiting on the proper bypass switch. You're damn straight on the sweep. It's sweet! My nephew had a listen the other day, and just about fell off his chair.
QuoteBeen off the forum a while great to see another Tau popping up!!
Wish I could have gotten the SOST flanger PCB before Juergen passed away (RIP). Though I have a feeling that in the spirit of DIY and the strong network surrounding the man that some of those projects will resurface again later and his legacy will live on through new builds.
I must say Strat, you are partially responsible for inspiring me to build it, having seen your build.
As for the SOST, it was just dumb luck that I found one. It's a partial kit as well, including all the IC's. Dumb, dumb, luck. Juergen was something else. Extraordinary work, that will live on, I'm sure.
Utterly fascinating, I've emailed bridechamber re a pcb and parts kit.
It would be interesting to put an expression pedal on the pitch control, which just happens to be 100k, same as a wah pot.
So it works OK with clean guitar, the input impedance is OK? From the schematic (http://www.jhaible.de/tau/jh_tau_sch_page1_signal.pdf)it looks like 100k input impedance give or take a bit, to my untrained eye, which should be OK.
Thanks so much for posting this one Dino.
Quote from: Ronan on September 30, 2012, 02:33:56 AM
Utterly fascinating, I've emailed bridechamber re a pcb and parts kit.
It would be interesting to put an expression pedal on the pitch control, which just happens to be 100k, same as a wah pot.
So it works OK with clean guitar, the input impedance is OK? From the schematic (http://www.jhaible.de/tau/jh_tau_sch_page1_signal.pdf)it looks like 100k input impedance give or take a bit, to my untrained eye, which should be OK.
Thanks so much for posting this one Dino.
I`m no genius when it comes to impedance, but one thing that threw me during the build was this document;
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=tau+pipe+phaser+impedance&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musicsynthesizer.com%2FDiode%2520Phaser%2FInstructions_All.pdf&ei=iJtoULaPKeKQyQGLp4CYDg&usg=AFQjCNH3T4V5y_9GZnEr611JqsEnb1qAeA (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=tau+pipe+phaser+impedance&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musicsynthesizer.com%2FDiode%2520Phaser%2FInstructions_All.pdf&ei=iJtoULaPKeKQyQGLp4CYDg&usg=AFQjCNH3T4V5y_9GZnEr611JqsEnb1qAeA)
Specifcally the «Guitar Input» section. I tried the 2M resistor in the R3 slot, but it oscillated badly. I went back to 100K. It sounds fine with my guitars. If it is 100K, then 10K to 15K going into 100K should be fine, right?
I realize the two circuits are not quite the same, but I figured from the input side of things I would try the 2M, as per the document.
I`m still such a noob when it comes to the finer details of impedance... :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: digi2t on September 30, 2012, 03:25:54 PM
It sounds fine with my guitars. If it is 100K, then 10K to 15K going into 100K should be fine, right?
Yep, should be fine, and your ears are a good judge. Maybe on the borderline for modern guitar pedal practice, but if it works well then best to leave it alone.
Quote from: digi2t on September 30, 2012, 03:25:54 PM
Specifcally the «Guitar Input» section. I tried the 2M resistor in the R3 slot, but it oscillated badly. I went back to 100K.
I realize the two circuits are not quite the same, but I figured from the input side of things I would try the 2M, as per the document.
I see, yes, the JH pcb is slightly different to the original unit on the input stage, so a 910K (instead of 2M) in slot R3 would probably carry out the same intent of the original document, maybe 470K would be safer. The advantage would be higher signal to noise ratio. I don't know if you'd hear the difference or not. It would also boost the output levels 4.7 times if you use a 470K, 9 times if you use a 910K. The document mentioned a resistor on the output to drop the signal level for (say) a guitar amp, but I'm guessing you have pots on the main and aux outputs. The values of R31 and R33 on the outputs, and the values of the output pots themselves could be altered to get the levels right. There could be other hidden traps as well, since there are many parts of the circuit I don't understand. I'll play around with it when I get mine built (assuming I can get a pcb).
All looks good, hope there are still some pcb's in stock.
The two black plastic "blocks" are the two rectangles labeled "PD-10" on the TAU 1190 schematic. They're transistor/diode phase shift ladders and are similar to Jurgen's schematic.
http://www.jhaible.de/tau/jh_tau_sch_page2_allpass.pdf (http://www.jhaible.de/tau/jh_tau_sch_page2_allpass.pdf)
I'm not sure why they're encapsulated in plastic. Each block had 10 stages of phase shift. The Aries Phase Shifter had one & the Tau "Pipe" had two.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j133/Jimbo_99/IMG_0098.jpg)
Here's a link with an explanation on transistor/diode phase shift ladders.
http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Diode%20Phaser/Diode%20Phaser.html (http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Diode%20Phaser/Diode%20Phaser.html)
I'm almost through soldering all the parts onto my new board - all I lack is finishing it up ;)
(Thanks for posting & video - gives me inspiration to get it going!)
Quotebut I'm guessing you have pots on the main and aux outputs. The values of R31 and R33 on the outputs, and the values of the output pots themselves could be altered to get the levels right
By golly Ian, that's right, I do. Input pot as well. I did the "DELUXE" version. Pots on input, and both outputs. I forgot to mention that. :icon_rolleyes:
Damn! You're a Sharpie! :icon_lol:
@jimbeaux
Get'er done man! It's a great unit. I've never heard any phaser like it. Thanks for the comparison pic as well! Super cool! :icon_cool:
It might sound even better if you disconnect the input pot completely. It would have no purpose except to attenuate line level signals. If you plan to use line level signals, maybe put a switch on it to disable it for guitar use. A 100K input pot would drop the input impedance to 50K, getting real borderline there.
Quote from: Ronan on September 30, 2012, 10:57:49 PM
It might sound even better if you disconnect the input pot completely. It would have no purpose except to attenuate line level signals. If you plan to use line level signals, maybe put a switch on it to disable it for guitar use. A 100K input pot would drop the input impedance to 50K, getting real borderline there.
I'll try that Ian, and report back.
Thanks dude!
There are a couple of posts at electro-music.com about using a guitar with the Pipe.
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-18396-275.html (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-18396-275.html)
8th & 9th posts.
(for what it's worth - I used a simple preamp (741) ahead of my old unit & didn't have any problems)
A secret neat thing about Tau with guitar is that it sounds great as a vibrato, its tempting to do the super deep phase on 100% all the time, but you can use the mild pitch shift effect and less depth on LFO to get an almost Roger Mayer Voodoo Vibe sounding effect. Pretty much as close as I've come to a Leslie simulator as I've gotten. Use it on guitar, farfisa and yamaha organs, and fender rhodes as a killer vibe pedal.
strategy
Thanks for the link jimbeaux! Now I understand, the junction of R2/R3/R4 is a summing node, if R3 is increased the resonance will also be amplified more, unless R4 is also increased, (which could have caused the oscillation you noticed Dino). R4 is already largish, so it becomes a bit of a juggling act. JH suggested using a discrete FET stage. It seems though that the phaser also works fine for guitar just as it is.
You know guys, I find the vibrato a bit weak for guitar. So, I`m kind of game to try and mess with the input side a bit. This is what I lifted off the electro forum;
QuoteIn short: If you increase the feedback resistor, you must also increase the resistor that comes from the resonance pot to the same opamp accordingly.
And decrease the 33p capacitor in the feedback loop to something like 10pF.
And don't use a 10k log input level pot with guitars.
OK, ditch the 10K pot? Or maybe up it to 100K or 500K? How about I replace the 1M (R1) with a pot for input volume (just trying to save the pot that`s already there :icon_rolleyes:)? Insofar as resistors are concerned, if I lower the cap to 10p, what would be a decent combo of resistors here?
I'm not real cluey with electronics, but if it were mine, and I had to keep the input pot, I would change it to 500K (like a guitar volume pot) and run it fully clockwise for guitar.
From what JH said, to get say a x2.2 gain from U1A, double R3 to 220K and double R4 to 470K.
Definitely the 10K input pot will not be helping your guitar sound, your guitar pickups are seeing a 10K input impedance, that is, when you have the guitar directly plugged into the phaser.
Its possible your dirt box has no problem driving the 10K input impedance of the current 10K pot. Also, most pedals without true bypass could also (more than likely) drive the 10K input impedance.
Quote from: Ronan on October 01, 2012, 06:14:46 PM
I'm not real cluey with electronics, but if it were mine, and I had to keep the input pot, I would change it to 500K (like a guitar volume pot) and run it fully clockwise for guitar.
From what JH said, to get say a x2.2 gain from U1A, double R3 to 220K and double R4 to 470K.
Definitely the 10K input pot will not be helping your guitar sound, your guitar pickups are seeing a 10K input impedance, that is, when you have the guitar directly plugged into the phaser.
Its possible your dirt box has no problem driving the 10K input impedance of the current 10K pot. Also, most pedals without true bypass could also (more than likely) drive the 10K input impedance.
Alright Ian, I`ll try that tomorrow, and report back. :icon_wink:
Well guys, I think Ian was pretty spot on insofar as his guesstimation is concerned. :icon_cool:
Changed R3 to 220K, R4 to 470K, switched C2 to 10pF, and replaced my 10K input pot with a 1M (didn't have a 500K).
Overall, the effect sounds even better now, especially where the vibrato is concerned. It was pretty dull before, but now, while still subtle, cuts through much nicer. If anyone is going to be using this with guitar, then I recommend the mods. Or, for maximum flexibility, take a page out of the Ludwig Phase II, and install two input jacks. One Hi-Z, and and one Lo-Z. I suppose one could use a 9 pin switching jack to do this, and run wires to the board. I'm just thinking out loud here. :icon_mrgreen:
Good call Ian. Thanks again!
Just glad it worked out OK Dino. Will do the same when/if I can get hold of a pcb.
Quote from: Ronan on October 02, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
Just glad it worked out OK Dino. Will do the same when/if I can get hold of a pcb.
I think I'll post the schematics in my Gallery, with notes for guitar use. Make it a bit easier to find.