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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: tfletchii on November 01, 2012, 04:42:25 PM

Title: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 01, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
Just put this vero layout together and was hoping to have some of yall look it over for any possible errors before I try to put it together. I've only done one vero layout before so this is still new to me. R3 and R5 share j12 which is less than desirable but that is how it turned out. I'm going to put a charge pump together to power it. Also, if you have any ideas for improvement on the circuit I'd love to hear them. I'm excited about putting a real spring reverb pedal type thing together. I haven't seen any DIY types around so I thought I'd share this and see what develops.


(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/StageCenterReverbVero.gif)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/stage_center_reverb_sc.gif)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 09, 2012, 11:09:29 AM
Here's an updated vero. I left a resistor off and had a cut that shouldn't be. Anyone see any problems? Thanks for the help

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/StageCenterReverbvero2.gif)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: bluebunny on November 10, 2012, 10:43:09 AM
Not checked the whole thing, but two things stand out: your V+ and V- pins on the 074 are shorted out (pins 4 and 11), and the + inputs for the top two opamps are unconnected (pins 3 and 12).
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 12, 2012, 09:19:13 AM
Thanks Mark. I'm still getting used to using DIY Layout and I had those moves on the first layout and when I redid it I carelessly forgot them.

How about this one?

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/StageCenterReverbvero3.gif)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: bluebunny on November 12, 2012, 10:37:39 AM
Those power and ground connections look OK now.  But you seem to have C5 go to Dwell 1 (and R1) rather than Mix.  Conversely, you have C6 go to Mix 3 rather than Dwell.  And your Dwell 2 and Mix 2 connections are swapped too.  This then confuses the area below IC1 C in the schematic.  I think you've basically got your two controls confused a little.

Have a strong coffee and/or a brisk walk in the fresh air - then you'll be all set to disentangle your pots.  Other than that, it looks pretty much there!
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 12, 2012, 04:23:41 PM
I was a little confused by this because, if I'm seeing it right, the GGG PCB layout is as I have it in the vero but the schematic is as you say. Am  I reading this wrong (PCB layout link below) or what. I guess I can take a swing at one and if it's incorrect then I'll switch it around.

But doesn't even matter since the dwell and mix knob or both 50k pot's. Shouldn't I just be able to switch the names? Or should a take a walk while having a cup of coffee?

thanks again Mark. I really appreciate the your help and time.

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sc_reverb_lo3.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: bluebunny on November 13, 2012, 10:47:32 AM
I see what you mean about the confusing documentation.  I guess you have to go with the schematic (i.e. assume it's correct) and build your layout from that.  (It's what I'd do.)  Simply renaming the two pots isn't enough.  Enjoy the coffee.  Don't spill it while you walk.   ;)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 13, 2012, 04:41:49 PM
Just saw this, that the original pinout on the schematic was for a 4136 while the layout is for a Tl074. There pinouts are different. This may explain things or not. I haven't looked at things to see if this matters but thought I'd put this out here and see what you think. I also emailed GGG to see if they have an answer.


(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/quadopamp_w72.jpg)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 14, 2012, 04:54:21 PM
Hey Mark

Would your voltage converter work for powering this. The SCR needs a -9 and +9 lines. If I'm following things right I should be able to obviously get the -9 from the bottom row of  your vero and shouldn't I be able to get the +9 from the top row on the boards right said as well?

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/05/negative-voltage-inverter.html
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: bluebunny on November 15, 2012, 10:32:44 AM
I think you're confusing me (Marc) with IvIark, who posted the blog you refer to... 

Anyway, whether or not the voltage inverter circuit would work OK depends on the current consumption from the -9V supply.  Unfortunately, I can't help you there...   :icon_confused:
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 15, 2012, 11:40:23 AM
Thanks Marc,

I'm sorry for the confusion. I had a discussion with IvIark on his blog about the SCR and mistakenly figured you were one in the same. Thanks again for checking in on my progress. I'd appreciate your continued help. I hope to get everything straightened out by the weekend and start the build next week.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 26, 2012, 04:19:30 PM
I put this thing together over the weekend based off the layout above and everything works but the reverb. Which is kinda the point of making it.

Works in bypass. Works when engaged. When the pedal is on it boost the volume noticeably and when I hit the tank I hear the spring "boing" but faintly. Also, the dwell and mix controls do nothing. I'm guessing, as Marc suggested, the pcb layout was wrong and the schematic is right. I'm confused by all of this because it seems like people have used the pcbs and gotten working projects and I've checked the pcb images of completed and working units against my vero layout and they are the same.

Anyway I'll post a revised layout following the schematic and if no one sees any issues I'll give it another go.

thanks again
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tubegeek on November 26, 2012, 04:41:47 PM
.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 29, 2012, 11:44:53 AM
Got everything working below is the verified vero layout. I'll delete any of the others to avoid any confusion for anyone in the future.

VERIFIED...

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/StageCenterReverbveroVERIFIED.gif)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: bluebunny on November 29, 2012, 11:47:33 AM
Cool!  Glad it all worked out in the end!  (And now you've piqued my interest a little, I may have to build it myself...)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 29, 2012, 12:05:40 PM
A few suggestions for anyone who might build this.

Here is a link to a negative voltage converter you can use to get the -9 and +9 power rails you need. Just grab the +9 from the top right of the vero.

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/05/negative-voltage-inverter.html


A good but pricey case would be the hammond part# 1441-16
Don't forget to get the bottom of the case which is sold seperately Hammond part #1434-16.

This case only works if you use a smaller 9" spring tank.

I used a MOD 8DB2C1D medium decay spring tank but any with an input impedance of 310ohm will work
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on November 29, 2012, 12:09:37 PM
Thanks again Marc for your help. I'm going to work on improving it some. It's a little noisy when you crank it up to some more intense reverb sounds and the volume could be matched a little better with the bypass signal. When you engage the reverb it is a little louder. Not so sure to do about the noise because I think it is going to be unavoidable with the signal going through the tl074.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: tfletchii on December 04, 2012, 11:03:03 AM
I'm thinking if I adjust R5 that will fix my problem with the unity gain when the mix control is set to full on dry. Does that sound right?
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: kinski on January 14, 2013, 08:38:40 PM
This looks amazing. I've got an amp that NEEDS spring reverb!

One question though. I'd like to install this into the back of my amp and then forget about it. Would there be a way to power the reverb using the amps power? It would be great if I did not have to power the reverb separately from the amp.

Possible?
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: guntherbuffalo on April 15, 2013, 08:31:14 AM

Hi,

Thanks for doing this. I am gonna have a go with the same tank as you, but maybe with 3 springs. Before I try this, did you manage to sort out that unity gain problem or make any other modifications?

Also, on your diagram I cannot see how to connect up the switch to switch between reverb and bypass, and the LED. Maybe you have put that on there and I am being a noob (This will be only my 3rd DIY!), but if you could just clarify that would be great.

Thanks in advance, can't wait to try it out. Are you pleased with the sound?

Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: guntherbuffalo on April 15, 2013, 08:41:52 AM
correction: Just realised your tank has 3 springs, so I will be using the exact same tank as you
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: kinski on September 09, 2013, 01:35:05 PM
Hmmm...I built this, but I'm just getting distortion and very low crackly volume. If I touch the strings, i can hear they rattle very faintly. Any ideas on where to start debugging?

Im using a 8BB3C1B, 190ohm. I know thats much lower than the recommended 310ohm...

Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: claytushaywood on December 06, 2013, 02:53:53 AM
is there anyway to modify this to use with tanks with lower input impedances?
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: thom on December 06, 2013, 05:21:06 PM
Personally, I've been happier with the sound and versatility of this one: sound.westhost.com/project34.htm (http://sound.westhost.com/project34.htm)
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: cruisemates on July 25, 2015, 10:06:21 PM
I built this spring reverb driver for use with a metroamps zero-loss effects loop - and all I got was distortion, like a drive pedal. That was when I got a tone - several hours of debugging left me with no tone at all.

I have on O.C. Electronics 2-spring (smallish) reverb from Milton Wisconsin, came out of a 30-watt Dean Markley type amp. It actually works great, but I can't seem to "push it" - If I hook it up and tap it I can hear the springs. but I can't seem to find the right preamp for pushing volume into it - something with volume/dwell, etc.

There are two choices, this one at one at tagboard effects: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/12/cook-spring-reverb.html which I have not tried yet. But I spent a LONG time working on this one today nd I am VERY frustrated.

How does one work out the "grounding"? I assume that the RCA jacks going into the unit have to be grounded - and that puts ground into the unit.

Does one NEED the 16v rail with both +9 and -9 (like this one) - because it seemed to overdrive my unit.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: cnspedalbuilder on May 08, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
Hello, sorry to awaken a dead thread. I'm really interested in building this:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/tfletchii/StageCenterReverbveroVERIFIED.gif)

I saw the linked negative voltage converter, but I'm a little confused about the grounding. I'm guessing the 9V DC in + goes straight to point 1B in the vero diagram, and also to the +9V in to the Negative Voltage Inverter. Then the -9 from the Voltage Inverter comes back to the -9V input at 19B.

If that's right, then my question is what happens to the ground for the -9V (bottom right of daughterboard below)?

Quote from: tfletchii on November 29, 2012, 12:05:40 PM
A few suggestions for anyone who might build this.

Here is a link to a negative voltage converter you can use to get the -9 and +9 power rails you need. Just grab the +9 from the top right of the vero.

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/05/negative-voltage-inverter.html
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p41sc9zjSEw/Ute2GBD1dMI/AAAAAAAAF70/owslltSwwKg/s1600/Negative+Voltage+Inverter.png)


A good but pricey case would be the hammond part# 1441-16
Don't forget to get the bottom of the case which is sold seperately Hammond part #1434-16.

This case only works if you use a smaller 9" spring tank.

I used a MOD 8DB2C1D medium decay spring tank but any with an input impedance of 310ohm will work
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: duck_arse on May 09, 2017, 11:24:55 AM
ground - is ground. all ground is the same ground. the positive volts go above ground, and the negatives go below, but ground just stays in the middle.

connect all the things named ground together. and yes, your +9V goes to the reverb and powers the charge pump, which then provides you with the -9 to connect back to the reverb.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: cnspedalbuilder on May 09, 2017, 01:29:24 PM
@duck_arse: thank you once again! Sorry after re-reading your post I realize that was a dumb question. But now I know.  :icon_mrgreen:

One more question: about how much juice do you think this would require from the power supply? Would a 400mA 9V input cut it? Or would I want to use a One Spot (1700mA)?
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: duck_arse on May 10, 2017, 10:23:50 AM
for just the tlo74 and a charge pump, 400mA should be plenty heaps.

never a dumb question, there's few here but the EE's that get a least a little confused when they see the dreaded minus sign.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: cnspedalbuilder on May 11, 2017, 12:03:38 PM
More questions, if y'all don't mind: I'm not going for a pristine reverb, I want something that sounds lo-fi and slightly overdriven with a high-mid "scratchiness", if that makes any sense.

I was thinking that, since I have to send -9V  in anyway, why not set up a switched Rangemaster treble boost before the input? I saw that Mark Hammer recommended rolling off bass frequencies from this anyway, though this was in the context of other mods that require some combing through the old threads.

Second Q: I was thinking of trying this with the 4db2c1d tank at SmallBear, and they told me it would be compatible. Given that it has 250 instead of 310 Ohms input impedance, I'm wondering if any tweaks to the circuit are recommended to optimize it.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: mwelch55 on May 11, 2017, 05:18:58 PM
I tried this circuit a couple of years ago and never got it working.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: sevrien on December 03, 2019, 09:42:33 AM
what about tank impedance?
I have a salvaged tank from an old keyboard/organ.
Does the impedance mather or not?

Greetings
Sevrien
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: paderuski on May 06, 2021, 08:37:15 AM
The final verified layout is different to the circuit diagram given in the first post. Notably, The connection for R1, R2 and C2 are wrong on the vero layout. Dwell 2 is shown in the circuit diagram to connect though R2 to R1 and C2. However, the vero layout is different, having Dwell 2 connect to a join between R1 and R2.

Therefore, to correct this, move C2 to the join between R1 and R2 (where Dwell 2 is shown to be connected on vero layout) and ground. Dwell 2 now connects to the now open side of R2 (where C2 is shown to be connected on the vero layout). I can draw a layout by hand and post it, but this is an old post so don't really know why I'm bothering, but hey.

I still get some grit from this, and have tried +/- 9V and +/- 15V. Any capacitor suggestions to reduce some of the bass harmonics would be welcomed
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: Vandoog on December 08, 2023, 01:50:04 AM
DEAD THREAD REVIVAL! :icon_twisted:  I built this thing with success but like the others i am bothered by how much it boosts the clean signal when its on. Any insight on how to achieve unity gain with this thing? I can kind of lower the clean volume to get it close by turning the mix know towards reverb but I imagine there is a more permanent solution.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: Elijah-Baley on December 08, 2023, 03:58:42 AM
I didn't built it, so I'm not sure what's exactly is the problem.
But, looking at the schematic, I think you could try to increase a bit R3 to get less clean volume, maybe, even if I guess this will change the Mix control, too.
Or decrease a bit R5 to get less general volume.
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: antonis on December 08, 2023, 05:50:36 AM
Quote from: Vandoog on December 08, 2023, 01:50:04 AMhow much it boosts the clean signal when its on

X3.1 (less than 10dB)..
Title: Re: Vero Layout for Stage Center Reverb
Post by: bluelagoon on December 14, 2023, 10:08:43 AM
As a Segue from one Reverb matter to the next,
I have an old cheapy 50 Watt guitar amp, it sounds okay for the price, has a 12 inch speaker, Presence control, along with Boost select, High , Mid and Low Tone, and after that a 4 band selectable Graphic EQ, its made for Bass guitar, but sounds good with a 6 string going through.
I scrapped the old original chip board cabinet, which was on its last legs, and have in mind to get on and build a new better quality cab to house it.
Also picked up a good price OC Electronics, Folded Line Reverb Tank, which I thought to incorporate into the amp while I have it apart.
The amp has a Send and Return Feature. Would this be the correct place to add in a Spring Reverb Tank circuit?
Thanks


(https://i.postimg.cc/grTWFv3t/Magnum-CG50-B-Amp-2.webp) (https://postimg.cc/grTWFv3t)


(https://i.postimg.cc/JDd42S1P/s-l1600-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDd42S1P)