Can anyone link or suggest a good layout for a 3-knob (gain/fuzz - tone - volume) 2-transistor (npn or pnp) 3PDT switch layout for a newb?


Please save your "learn schematics" comments. If you don't approve of a beginner using a layout than please no need for negative comments or comments at all. I come in peace. I just want to build some pedals this weekend. Like many of you I'm kind of stuck around the house for most of the day.

Thank you 

Quote from: DJPsychic on March 21, 2020, 11:30:38 AM
Can anyone link or suggest a good layout for a 3-knob (gain/fuzz - tone - volume) 2-transistor (npn or pnp) 3PDT switch layout for a newb?
Thank you 

If you're after a stripboard layouts, there are tonnes over at http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com   

...along with guides on how to interpret stripboard layouts and wiring up power connections and 3PDT bypass switching.

I still use the modified D*A*M Greasebox '83 I made a few years ago - I've made dozens of fuzzboxes over the years, but this one is still on my board. Please note that the layout shows the pinout for the BC547, i.e. collectors of both transistors are at the bottom. If you use 2N5088/9 or 2N3904 etc, you'll need to flip them 180 degrees.



https://postimg.cc/7bQmMBrx

Awesome man thank you!

Did you type "3 knob fuzz layout" into a search engine?

i can confirm that the DAM grease box is a very nice fuzz, i build mine on my breadboard, and took it to a local jam session for people to try out, its really nice, but it doesn't stand out from the crowd much, as far as fuzz is concerned.

Quote from: Gus on March 21, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
Did you type "3 knob fuzz layout" into a search engine?

What's google? 

Jk 

I did, but I also wanted to see what was available here.

You can also just take any 2-knob fuzz layout, of which there are thousands, and add Mark Hammers Patented Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (not really patented) between the output of the board and the Volume pot. I would suggest a Jordan Bosstone with red or, even better, bright blue LED's as clipping diodes for this. One of my favorite fuzzes, easy to build, sounds great and there is a perf layout here:

https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html

Cheers,
Andy

p.s. I'm not one to preach but seriously, do yourself a favor try to understand the schematic even while building from the layout. Makes it much, much easier to track down any problems if the thing ends up not working as advertised on the first try. After building a few simple things from layouts and trying to follow how the layout corresponds to the schematic, you will have learned how to read schematics automatically and can start to mod existing circuits and develop your own, which, at least to me, is a lot more fun than just plain building effects that someone else has developed. That being said, starting by building from layouts is absolutely fine.

Quote from: Fancy Lime on March 22, 2020, 04:07:20 AM... I'm not one to preach but seriously, do yourself a favor try to understand the schematic even while building from the layout. Makes it much, much easier to track down any problems if the thing ends up not working as advertised on the first try. After building a few simple things from layouts and trying to follow how the layout corresponds to the schematic, you will have learned how to read schematics automatically and can start to mod existing circuits and develop your own, which, at least to me, is a lot more fun than just plain building effects that someone else has developed. That being said, starting by building from layouts is absolutely fine.

This is how I see it. My first build was a one knob fuzz from a random strip board layout that I made with literally no clue about interpreting audio schematics or the normal conventions of pedal building. By some minor miracle (and because it was so simple), it worked first time. I then proceeded to make a series of more complicated builds that all failed. Without understanding the schematics, I was unable to determine whether the layouts or my builds were at fault, and I had no confidence to effectively troubleshoot them.

After that, I studied the schematics for any build I intended to make and painstakingly checked every connection on the layout against the schematic. This, coupled with breadboarding the schematic to check it would definitely work with the occasional parts substitutions I intended to make meant that I quickly came to understand other issues that can scupper every newby's first few builds (transistor pinouts, when polarity in caps is important, what is essential and what is merely desirable etc).

Quote from: Fancy Lime on March 22, 2020, 04:07:20 AM
You can also just take any 2-knob fuzz layout, of which there are thousands, and add Mark Hammers Patented Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (not really patented) between the output of the board and the Volume pot. I would suggest a Jordan Bosstone with red or, even better, bright blue LED's as clipping diodes for this. One of my favorite fuzzes, easy to build, sounds great and there is a perf layout here:

https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html

Cheers,
Andy

p.s. I'm not one to preach but seriously, do yourself a favor try to understand the schematic even while building from the layout. Makes it much, much easier to track down any problems if the thing ends up not working as advertised on the first try. After building a few simple things from layouts and trying to follow how the layout corresponds to the schematic, you will have learned how to read schematics automatically and can start to mod existing circuits and develop your own, which, at least to me, is a lot more fun than just plain building effects that someone else has developed. That being said, starting by building from layouts is absolutely fine.

I agree and this is my goal, to be able to read schematic and build/mod my own stuff.

Have to start somewhere, just trying to get to know circuits better.

Thanks!

Two more noob questions:


1) If  I were to breadboard say the Layout posted above, how do account for the holes represented?

2) Using layout above, If I were to again breadboard, what would I use as output? Would I just go from VOL2? I ask because sometimes layouts do not provide input/output.

Like the 2nd layout provided:

https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html

Input/Output is not indicated

Again thank you answering my dumb questions.

Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 06:56:10 AM
1) If  I were to breadboard say the Layout posted above, how do account for the holes represented?

You'll give yourself a headache trying to breadboard from a layout, unless the layout in question is all in strips of five holes.

Quote
2) Using layout above, If I were to again breadboard, what would I use as output? Would I just go from VOL2? I ask because sometimes layouts do not provide input/output.

Like the 2nd layout provided:

https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html

Input/Output is not indicated

Input and output are clarified on comment #2.

http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm

Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful

Quote from: bluebunny on March 22, 2020, 08:25:34 AM

Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 06:56:10 AM
1) If  I were to breadboard say the Layout posted above, how do account for the holes represented?

You'll give yourself a headache trying to breadboard from a layout, unless the layout in question is all in strips of five holes.

i have seen them before, 7 hole wide breadboards, but i cant find them on google or ebay.

Quote

You'll give yourself a headache trying to breadboard from a layout, unless the layout in question is all in strips of five holes.

I thought it was just me good to know lol 

Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm

Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful

This is perfect thank u!

Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm

Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful

I just finished this breadboard, I have sound, I have fuzz, but the fuzz pot doesn't change anything.

Maybe bad pot?

(Ideally, first measure the collector voltages to give us an idea if the rest of the circuit is actually operating properly).

Possibly a bad pot, or maybe the 22u electrolytic cap wrongly oriented or not connected properly between wiper and ground (should have negative leg with stripe to ground and positive/non-striped leg connected to the middle lug).

Quick checks: Whilst listening carefully, remove the fuzz pot lug 1 from ground: The whole circuit should go silent as Q2 cannot operate without an emitter connection to ground. If this is the case, replace the ground connection and you should get the sound back: Now turn the fuzz pot to max, listen to judge the level of fuzz, then remove the 22u cap. If you hear no difference, this suggests a problem with the lug2 wiper connection or possibly the pot itself. To confirm this, now connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground - This should give a massive boost in fuzz/gain, effectively going from minimum to max fuzz in one swift movement.

Quote from: nocentelli on March 22, 2020, 04:40:31 PM
(Ideally, first measure the collector voltages to give us an idea if the rest of the circuit is actually operating properly).

Possibly a bad pot, or maybe the 22u electrolytic cap wrongly oriented or not connected properly between wiper and ground (should have negative leg with stripe to ground and positive/non-striped leg connected to the middle lug).

Quick checks: Whilst listening carefully, remove the fuzz pot lug 1 from ground: The whole circuit should go silent as Q2 cannot operate without an emitter connection to ground. If this is the case, replace the ground connection and you should get the sound back: Now turn the fuzz pot to max, listen to judge the level of fuzz, then remove the 22u cap. If you hear no difference, this suggests a problem with the lug2 wiper connection or possibly the pot itself. To confirm this, now connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground - This should give a massive boost in fuzz/gain, effectively going from minimum to max fuzz in one swift movement.

Ok, so I think I measured the collectors right

Q1 = .53

Q2 =1.24

As far as the 22u cap, I removed and it made no difference. But I was a little confused by your next instruction...

"connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground" 

side note: when I turn volume knob on guitar all the way down, signal becomes very loud, not sure if that means anything...

Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
Ok, so I think I measured the collectors right

Q1 = .53

Q2 =1.24

You should be measuring them with the red wire of the multimeter directly on the collector leg (or connecting hole), and the black wire connected directly to ground. The voltages you quote are bit lower than I would expect, especially on the Q2.

Voltages in a fuzzface will vary depending upon the particular transistors used, but i would expect Q1 to be around a single volt and Q2 should be several volts (like 3-6v). Check all the resistor values, connections and transistor pin-outs/orientations carefully before proceeding further.

Quote from: DJPsychic on March 22, 2020, 07:06:48 PM

As far as the 22u cap, I removed and it made no difference. But I was a little confused by your next instruction...

"connect the cap directly from the Q2 emitter to ground" 

In the picture from the Smallbear breadboarding tutorial below, the fuzz pot on the left of the picture is connected via the left hand wire (lug 1) to ground (actually connected through a wire link to the Q1 emitter, but that leg is grounded); The pot is also connected to the circuit via the right-hand wire (lug3) to the Q2 emitter (ninth hole counting from the left) and the middle wire (lug 2) is connected through the 22u cap to ground (visible in the middle at the bottom of the breadboard).

My suggestion is to remove this cap and connect the positive leg of the cap to the Q2 emitter (where fuzz pot lug3 is connected) and the negative leg directly to ground.

If the fuzz pot is defective (e.g. the lug2 wiper is not connecting internally to the resistive track inside the pot), a massive boost in fuzz when the cap is re-positioned would confirm this.

Quote

In the picture from the Smallbear breadboarding tutorial below, the fuzz pot on the left of the picture is connected via the left hand wire (lug 1) to ground (actually connected through a wire link to the Q1 emitter, but that leg is grounded); The pot is also connected to the circuit via the right-hand wire (lug3) to the Q2 emitter (ninth hole counting from the left) and the middle wire (lug 2) is connected through the 22u cap to ground (visible in the middle at the bottom of the breadboard).

My suggestion is to remove this cap and connect the positive leg of the cap to the Q2 emitter (where fuzz pot lug3 is connected) and the negative leg directly to ground.

If the fuzz pot is defective (e.g. the lug2 wiper is not connecting internally to the resistive track inside the pot), a massive boost in fuzz when the cap is re-positioned would confirm this.

I really really appreciate your help. Honestly if I knew you I'd high five you, well maybe not with the corona thing happening, maybe an "air-five" but you get the sentiment. Thank you

A note: I didn't have a 2.2 mf for the input so I've been using a 4.7uf I also tried a 1uf. Not sure if this is important...

As far as the 22 cap, am I leaving Fuzz pot lug 3 connected when I put the 22uf cap in?

edit: The build also asks for a C1k pot which I happened to have. Would a B1k work as well?