So just for the sheer fun, learning experience and also to save space on my board, I built two of a well known boutique pedal and shove them into one box for myself with no intention of selling it or building more than one example. But now someone else saw it and wants me to build another one exactly like mine for him. What should I do or should I not do?

The cloned pedal is still commercially available but I did some minor changes to the output cap and added an additional pulldown resistor. And due to limited availability, I didn't use the same materials as the originals for some components. No change in tone and no modification to the core design. And cosmetically it doesn't look even remotely close to the original.

I did a quick search but couldn't find any that is similar to my case (being a dual pedal, slight mod and all that). I also don't live in the States so I don't know how that could affect how the copyright law works (I'm not a legal person). I do have a lot of respect to the original builder and would like to not cause any grief to him.

I understand that this has a moral and legal aspects to it, I'm interested to hearing (reading) what you guys recommend. Thanks in advance!

you're not building these things in volume or to make a living
so long as you're just doing one-offs, I can't imagine you'd run into any legal problems

build another and sell it for parts plus labor

You have a few major options.

1. Just do it, and live with the consequences - if any. The unlikeliness of getting caught at this or there being enforceable legal remedies means that this is what most of the effects boutique industry does.
2. Contact the people who made the thing you cloned, and ask permission nicely. Then either follow their wishes, or do whatever you want. This does tend to limit your plausible deniability, though.
3. Say "No" to the guy who wants one. Think about whether the money and/or aggrandizement is worth the worry.
4. Teach the guy who wants one to make his own clone, and extract your "payment" in beer, introduction to lissome ladies, etc.

One thing that I am absolutely, positively, SURE about...

You WILL NOT be the first, second, or 100th person to do this!  

Quote from: R.G. on July 02, 2012, 10:16:59 AM
4. Teach the guy who wants one to make his own clone, and extract your "payment" in beer, introduction to lissome ladies, etc.

Had to look that one up! 

Go for it... it's always good experience to build for other people.

Quote from: Boxxy
You's trollin

  joking

Here's a place to start: http://www.muzique.com/clones.htm, although it's mostly discussing U.S. law.

I'm not a legal person either (that's my disclaimer), but my opinion is that doing what you are describing wouldn't have any legal consequences.

Ethics are a different matter.  It sounds like you've already put some thought into this.  Worst case, you could always ask your friend to buy the original pedals (so the original builder is not harmed), and trade them to you for your custom-built version.  As long as you don't resell the original commercial pedals, your friend has what he wants (your cool custom pedal), the original commercial builder has what he wants (your friend's money), and you have what you want (a clear conscience).

If your friend's intent was simply to circumvent the high retail cost of the commercial pedals, then you probably need to exercise your own ethical judgement about it.

paypal me £145.000 then i'm sure you'll be ok,....

Careful... it may be a sting.

Seriously though, I've learned a lot by making pedals for my friends. I don't think my amateur clones are taking a bite out of the commercial pedal market. Also my friends are cheapskates, so its not like they are gonna shell out for new stuff anyways. I think about it like this: if I want pizza and go to the store and take ingredients off the shelf without paying, that's probably wrong. But if I want to make a pizza and use the recipe from the restaurant I used to work, I'm not going to lose sleep at night (especially with a belly full of pizza and homemade fuzz faces)

Build it for them.

The "well known boutique builder" could pay a lawyer $300 to send you a cease and desist letter.

It's highly unlikely this builder has $300 to spare, though.....

build it for them dude.  When I build stuff for my friends I usually trade for other musical gear, primarily other broken pedals they have, guitar pickups, etc.  But if you want to charge them money for it that's ok too.  The "boutique" builder probably ripped the circuit off from somebody else anyway...

listen to the Resident Guru.

The point is beleaguered here; http://www.muzique.com/clones.htm    If everyone applied your standard of ethics the DIY world for effects, guitars, amps, TV's, beer, etc.. would not exist.     If dozens of companies big and small, can build variations [sometimes direct copies] of effects, and a dozen more companies sell circuit boards, parts and kits to build clones, then you building for yourself and a few friends is fine.

Bottom line, build it.  

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who was building for themselves and/or a few friends if they had any issues from the original manufacturers. 

Don't know the laws in Sydney Australia but I think I heard they will only chop off your hands if caught...

Quote from: ekamal on July 02, 2012, 09:49:36 AM
The cloned pedal is still commercially available but I did some minor changes to the output cap

That's probably all that differentiates the still commercially available boutique pedal from a Tubescreamer/Big Muff/Rat/Fuzz Face [delete as applicable], so I wouldn't lose too much sleep.

You could get in touch with the designer and offer to pay them a reasonable licensing fee for your clone, and/or could put a note on the bottom of the pedal or something "Original Circuit Design By _____", that would be the good people thing to do.

I know Electro Harmonix licensed the Mu-Tron III circuit from Mike Beigel, the inventor, for their Q-Tron, in spite of a few minor modifications.

Hi all, thanks for all the replies, still mostly undecided at this point but probably will just build a one-off for my friend at cost plus labour.

What is a reasonable rate for labour?

Quote from: R.G. on July 02, 2012, 10:16:59 AM
You have a few major options.

1. Just do it, and live with the consequences - if any. The unlikeliness of getting caught at this or there being enforceable legal remedies means that this is what most of the effects boutique industry does.
2. Contact the people who made the thing you cloned, and ask permission nicely. Then either follow their wishes, or do whatever you want. This does tend to limit your plausible deniability, though.
3. Say "No" to the guy who wants one. Think about whether the money and/or aggrandizement is worth the worry.
4. Teach the guy who wants one to make his own clone, and extract your "payment" in beer, introduction to lissome ladies, etc.

Hi R.G., thanks for the options, as I said in the previous post, I'd probably go with the previous post. If someone else asks me to build another pedal then I'll post back ha.

I'd probably just follow your options sequentially, as in if I get additional requests and I have time to do it I will have to go option 2. If I get more requests and I have no time then I'll go with option 3.

Would be ideal to do option 4, I love sharing knowledge etc but would be hard to ensure that the guy will act legally, ethically and morally.

Quote from: waltk on July 02, 2012, 10:32:00 AM

If your friend's intent was simply to circumvent the high retail cost of the commercial pedals, then you probably need to exercise your own ethical judgement about it.

I think he's mostly wanting to avoid the long waiting period, he doesn't mind the retail cost at all.

Quote from: J0K3RX on July 02, 2012, 06:17:44 PM
Don't know the laws in Sydney Australia but I think I heard they will only chop off your hands if caught...

Sometimes they pluck your eyes out and force you to work in the dungeon with shackles, but don't tell the government that..